Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Arclight arclight@*********.de
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:49:56 +0200

Message no. 1 I friend of mine found this at libri.de,
a german online bookstore:

> Fasa, Corporation:
> Cannon Companion; A Shadowrun Sourcebook.
>
> Amerikanische Ausgabe
> ISBN: 1-55560-375-0
> kurzfristig lieferbar

the URL for those who want to check the above
is

http://195.222.198.125/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Lissy?400010003502160773066309040
27&adtraction=0H63H0H672

The text marked with ">" says the
book is for sale now...

So what is this???

arclight

From:	Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:35:15 +0200

Message no. 2 >> kurzfristig lieferbar

> The text marked with ">" says the
>book is for sale now...
>
>So what is this???

"kurzfristig" means "at short notice" (I thought up "soon",
checked with
AltaVista and they gave this translation - unless my English is worse than
I thought, that's about the same). "Lieferbar" means available.
So it will be available at short notice...

And even then, many online bookstores say they have books available that
won't be released within many months, or that have been OOP for many
years...

VrGr David

"We're but fools of our fate, on this earth I shall wait by the roots of my
soul."
(Fields of the Nephilim - "Sumerland (what dreams may come)")

From:	Paolo Marcucci thatpaolo@****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:29:01 -0700

Message no. 3 > I friend of mine found this at libri.de,
> a german online bookstore:
>
> > Fasa, Corporation:
> > Cannon Companion; A Shadowrun Sourcebook.

>The text marked with ">" says the
>book is for sale now...
>So what is this???

Nothing, don't worry :)

CC will be out AFTER M&M, that's not out yet (I think it's in art, by now)

-Paolo

From:	Deirdre M. Brooks xenya@********.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion.
Date:	Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:08:25 -0700

Message no. 4 Looks good - I like the additions to the martial arts and gun
customizing.

So far, my only (and I stress only) problem is the apparently obligatory
comment that capoeira is unknown outside Brazila/Amazonia, with only a
few exceptions.

Capoeira is fairly widespread across the US. I've taken lessons (and
will take them again very soon), and a quick websearch shows you can
find a mestro in many major cities in the United States.

Why is this myth about "almost unknown" perpetuated?

Never mind, that's rhetorical. I just wanted to vent.

The rest of the book looks fine to me - in-depth reading may turn up
further kvetches (like the difficulty of two-gun combat I see here).

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today."
-- Spider Jerusalem | http://www.teleport.com/~xenya

From:	Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion.
Date:	Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:23:28 -0700

Message no. 5 At Deirdre M. Brooks, 10:08 PM 09/04/00 wrote:
>Capoeira is fairly widespread across the US. I've taken lessons (and
>will take them again very soon), and a quick websearch shows you can
>find a mestro in many major cities in the United States.
>
>Why is this myth about "almost unknown" perpetuated?

Because most of us can only recall one practitioner of Capoiera offhand. ;)
When I first ran across the term, I had a bit of trouble finding any
information on it, and most references pointed to an interview with you
know who. ;)

--
Dvixen - dvixen@****.com =-=-= Gallery - http://members.home.com/dvixen
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
Vrianna - http://www.eternalconclave.com/AC
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.

From:	Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion.
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:58:01 -0700

Message no. 6 On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:23:28 -0700 Dvixen <dvixen@****.com> writes:
> At Deirdre M. Brooks, 10:08 PM 09/04/00 wrote:
> >Capoeira is fairly widespread across the US. I've taken lessons
> (and
> >will take them again very soon), and a quick websearch shows you
> can
> >find a mestro in many major cities in the United States.
> >
> >Why is this myth about "almost unknown" perpetuated?
>
> Because most of us can only recall one practitioner of Capoiera
> offhand. ;)
> When I first ran across the term, I had a bit of trouble finding any
> information on it, and most references pointed to an interview with
> you
> know who. ;)

*blinks*
I'm probably going to feel really stupid when I get the answer, but ...
who?
The only ones I can think of are Eddy Gordo from the Tekken video games
and this guy in my Martial Arts class.

--
D. Ghost
A Mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems
--Paul Erdos

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

From:	Deirdre M. Brooks xenya@********.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion.
Date:	Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:41:13 -0700

Message no. 7 Dvixen wrote:
>
> >Why is this myth about "almost unknown" perpetuated?
>
> Because most of us can only recall one practitioner of Capoiera offhand. ;)
> When I first ran across the term, I had a bit of trouble finding any
> information on it, and most references pointed to an interview with you
> know who. ;)

Okay. At least the mechanics of how it works are accurate enough for
cinematic use. That's about 10x better than most anyone else does. :-)

Next time, call me, or write.

And send me your snailmail address so I can send you that book (if you
still want it).

(repeat here that the CC is a good book and fun to read - my only
complaint is that one)

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@********.com | cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today."
-- Spider Jerusalem | http://www.teleport.com/~xenya

From:	GuayII@*.com GuayII@*.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion.
Date:	Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:34:14 EDT

Message no. 8 In a message dated Mon, 10 Apr 2000 1:25:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dvixen
<dvixen@****.com> writes:

> Because most of us can only recall one practitioner of Capoiera offhand. ;)
> When I first ran across the term, I had a bit of trouble finding any
> information on it, and most references pointed to an interview with you
> know who. ;)

Who? (I can recall 3 famous capoierists off hand--one being in a video game
*cough*Tekken3*cough*)

Cash

From:	DragonC147@*.com DragonC147@*.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:04:09 EDT

Message no. 9 Hi,

I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon Companion. I'm making a gun
like the M-23, an assault rifle without any accessories. So i made it
according to the rules, and it costs 1650¥. Which since i did some stuff to
it doesn't seem to bad, but it is still more expensive than the M22A2 which
has a bunch of things. So out of curiosity i looked at using the rules to
make the M-23, the same way it is in the book. According to book rules the
M-23 should cost 1575¥, yet it is only 950¥. Does this mean we should reduce
the prices of weapons we make using Cannon by 40%? What would be a
reasonable way to price these things?

Dragon Claw

From:	Bira ra002585@**.unicamp.br
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:09:46 GMT

Message no. 10 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:04:09 EDT
DragonC147@***.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon Companion. I'm making a gun
> like the M-23, an assault rifle without any accessories. So i made it
> according to the rules, and it costs 1650¥. Which since i did some stuff to
> it doesn't seem to bad, but it is still more expensive than the M22A2 which
> has a bunch of things. So out of curiosity i looked at using the rules to
> make the M-23, the same way it is in the book. According to book rules the
> M-23 should cost 1575¥, yet it is only 950¥. Does this mean we should
reduce
> the prices of weapons we make using Cannon by 40%? What would be a
> reasonable way to price these things?
>
> Dragon Claw

There's some "Quality Factors" for guns in the 9th issue of the
NAGEE that may cover your questions. It's optional, but according to it
mass-produced weapons can get a big price reduction, because they're
more common.

Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.cjb.net
ICQ#4055455

From:	kawaii trunks@********.org
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:58:32 -0400

Message no. 11 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:04:09 EDT
DragonC147@***.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon Companion. I'm making a
gun
> like the M-23, an assault rifle without any accessories. So i made it
> according to the rules, and it costs 1650¥. Which since i did some stuff
to
> it doesn't seem to bad, but it is still more expensive than the M22A2
which
> has a bunch of things. So out of curiosity i looked at using the rules to
> make the M-23, the same way it is in the book. According to book rules
the
> M-23 should cost 1575¥, yet it is only 950¥. Does this mean we should
reduce
> the prices of weapons we make using Cannon by 40%? What would be a
> reasonable way to price these things?
>
> Dragon Claw

Remember to consider the cost reductions for mass production. A mega-corp
(Colt in this example) can afford to do things in bulk, which in general,
makes things cheaper. When a person is making a custom weapon at home, in
his basement or whatever, he doesn't have that advantage, and hence it is
more expensive. :)

(Altho computers seem to contradict this. I have yet to see a computer that
Dell sells that I haven't been able to build for cheaper. ;) )

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii

From:	Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:50:22 -0500

Message no. 12 ----- Original Message -----
From: "kawaii" <trunks@********.org>

> (Altho computers seem to contradict this. I have yet to see a computer
that
> Dell sells that I haven't been able to build for cheaper. ;) )

Mark-up and employment considerations. I worked on an assembly line this
summer, putting parts in computers... that's something that pretty much
needs to be done by a human, especially as badly as they ran this place. A
lot of rifle-work, though, can be done by machine without worrying that
something will get bunged up... some parts, like rifling, have to be done by
machine if you want any kind of speed on production, or regularity of
caliber.

From:	Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:10:22 GMT

Message no. 13 >From: DragonC147@***.com
>I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon Companion.

I've already spotted your big mistake :)>

You want to be using a combination of;

http://members.nbci.com/fedemp1cop/Shadowrun/Rules/CC_REDUX1_21.pdf

And the weapon design tweaking in;

http://plastic.dumpshock.com/nagee/nagee09.html

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

From:	Zebulin Magby zebulingod@*****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:14:30 -0700

Message no. 14 "kawaii" <trunks@********.org> wrote:
>
> (Altho computers seem to contradict this. I have yet to see a computer
that
> Dell sells that I haven't been able to build for cheaper. ;) )
>

HA! And you never will! Hurray for homebuilts! (And they generally don't
crash as much, either.)

Zebulin

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:37:42 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 15 > I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon
Companion. I'm making a gun like the M-23, an assault
rifle without any accessories. So i made it according
to the rules, and it costs 1650¥. Which since i did
some stuff to it doesn't seem to bad, but it is still
more expensive than the M22A2 which has a bunch of
things. So out of curiosity i looked at using the
rules to make the M-23, the same way it is in the
book. According to book rules the M-23 should cost
1575¥, yet it is only 950¥. Does this mean we should
reduce the prices of weapons we make using Cannon by
40%? What would be a reasonable way to price these
things?
> Dragon Claw

What Bira didn't explicitly mention is that it's
generally accepted, at least on the list, that the
pricing system in CC reflects custom-made weapons, not
mass-produced ones. It takes some fiddling, but if you
lessen the final multiplier, you'll usually get a more
realistic cost for a mass-produced weapon - in your
case, your weapon, if multiplied by 3 rather than 5
would end up with a cost of 990, much closer to the
book price for the M-23. You could explain the
slightly lower price for the M-23 as a discount.

Btw, who's actually used the system to make weapons?
What's the most expensive gun you've created so far,
and what can it do?

I've made a couple of shotguns for a real shotgun
fanatic character. One is a pure assault shotgun (2
15-shot clips, 10S damage, 5 points of recoil
compensation, few other toys) and the other is it's
little, pistol-sized brother (shortened barrel,
bull-pupped etc. to give it a base concealability of
6, 8 vs. metal detectors). Both of them ended up
costing nearly 8k, but the character's in heaven now. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

From:	Mister Incognito misterincognito@*******.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:50:58 GMT

Message no. 16 Dragon Claw, try this instead. Bow down and worship the ultimate gun
creation rules in existance- well, in my opinion anyway. Spudsmnas rules.

http://users.erols.com/elspud/sr/firearms/
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

From:	Matt Bond MBOND@******.demon.co.uk
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:44:23 +0100

Message no. 17 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Rand Ratinac [mailto:docwagon101@*****.com]
<snip>
> I've made a couple of shotguns for a real shotgun
> fanatic character. One is a pure assault shotgun (2
> 15-shot clips, 10S damage, 5 points of recoil
> compensation, few other toys) and the other is it's
> little, pistol-sized brother (shortened barrel,
> bull-pupped etc. to give it a base concealability of
> 6, 8 vs. metal detectors). Both of them ended up
> costing nearly 8k, but the character's in heaven now. ;)

In heaven?

What happened? Someone took his new toy off him and shot him with it?

<g>

Matt

From:	Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:34:17 -0500

Message no. 18 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> Btw, who's actually used the system to make weapons?
> What's the most expensive gun you've created so far,
> and what can it do?

I don't remember. I think for one character, I designed a sniper rifle
using the rifle template and it wound of costing 12k or more. I also seem
to recall designing a weapon that cost over 20k ...

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:14:28 +0200

Message no. 19 According to kawaii, at 14:58 on 21 Sep 00, the word on the street was...

> (Altho computers seem to contradict this. I have yet to see a computer that
> Dell sells that I haven't been able to build for cheaper. ;) )

That's because with computers, you pay for the name, and the service that
goes with it. A brandless computer, or one built from buying the parts,
will often be cheaper, but if it breaks down, you'll have to fix it
yourself (not a problem if you know how, but most of the people buying
computers these days don't even know what to do when they get a warning
that A: contains a non-bootable disk, it seems) while if you buy a Dell
(or something), you get a warantee.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It was a warning shot that missed.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Cannon Companion
Date:	Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:14:28 +0200

Message no. 20 According to DragonC147@***.com, at 14:04 on 21 Sep 00, the word on the
street was...

> I'm creating a gun using the rules in the Cannon Companion. I'm making
> a gun like the M-23, an assault rifle without any accessories. So i
> made it according to the rules, and it costs 1650¥. Which since i did
> some stuff to it doesn't seem to bad, but it is still more expensive
> than the M22A2 which has a bunch of things. So out of curiosity i
> looked at using the rules to make the M-23, the same way it is in the
> book. According to book rules the M-23 should cost 1575¥, yet it is
> only 950¥. Does this mean we should reduce the prices of weapons we
> make using Cannon by 40%?

What it means is, IMHO (I've said this before, but will repeat it :) that
the weapon design system is 10+ years too late. It should have been made
up by FASA before the release of the SR1 main rules, or at its latest
during the writing of the Street Samurai Catalog, so that all weapons
published ever for SR could have been built with it. Creating this design
system last year means it will never fit all the existing weapons no
matter how hard you try, unless you add a rule that allows fudging the
system as much as necessary -- in which case there's no need for a system
at all, if you ask me, so it's good a line like that was not added :)

> What would be a reasonable way to price these things?

The way SR players have done for over a decade: compare the weapon's stats
to those of existing SR firearms, and pick a price that seems reasonable
based on those. If you build a weapon similar in capabilities to the M-23,
you give it a price similar to that of an M-23.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It was a warning shot that missed.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrun)
Subject:	cannon companion
Date:	Tue Dec 11 12:10:04 2001

Message no. 21 Hi , I know the general idea is to buy the book , but which
one ? my investment into SR took place about 5 years back
when the rand dollar wasn't so ridiculous < 4-1 instead of
11-1 and fast closing on 12-1 >) , and got most of the 2nd
ed stuff then

my quessie is , do any of the books have something like a
Thompson Machine gun ( SMG catagory ) , obviously this is
for a more gangster-esque type run , using heavy pistol ammo
and ranges , and obviously similar types of damage ( yep
real nasty ) , the old thompson ( under correction ) used
.45ACP ammo and either drum or magazine feed ( 50 or 25
rounds ), what with big trolls walkin around I am sure
someone would of thought along these lines , bigger bullets
for bigger targets , instead it seems to me from the
sourcebooks i have that firearm manufacturers seem to think
that all they are going to have to take down is a big human
, there has gotta be a market ( even if it is just H.P.)

Kanniemeernie Korperaal
" it's your standard issue big gun , the equipment section
made it and now it's part of my private collection "
Bateau - ghost in the shell

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject:	cannon companion
Date:	Tue Dec 11 14:25:01 2001

Message no. 22 ----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowrun" <shadowrun@********.absa.co.za>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:05 PM

> Hi , I know the general idea is to buy the book , but which
> one ? my investment into SR took place about 5 years back
> when the rand dollar wasn't so ridiculous < 4-1 instead of
> 11-1 and fast closing on 12-1 >) , and got most of the 2nd
> ed stuff then
>
> my quessie is , do any of the books have something like a
> Thompson Machine gun ( SMG catagory ) , obviously this is
> for a more gangster-esque type run , using heavy pistol ammo
> and ranges , and obviously similar types of damage ( yep
> real nasty ) , the old thompson ( under correction ) used
> .45ACP ammo and either drum or magazine feed ( 50 or 25
> rounds ), what with big trolls walkin around I am sure
> someone would of thought along these lines , bigger bullets
> for bigger targets , instead it seems to me from the
> sourcebooks i have that firearm manufacturers seem to think
> that all they are going to have to take down is a big human
> , there has gotta be a market ( even if it is just H.P.)

Bottom line: You can make *any* gun with the Firearm Design & Customization
section in the Cannon Companion. Heck, put a pearl handle or chrome finish
on it if ya want! =)

--Wally
http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454

From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	cannon companion
Date:	Tue Dec 11 16:20:01 2001

Message no. 23 > My quessie is , do any of the books have something like a
> Thompson Machine gun ( SMG catagory ) , obviously this is
> for a more gangster-esque type run , using heavy pistol ammo
> and ranges , and obviously similar types of damage ( yep
> real nasty ) , the old Thompson ( under correction ) used
> .45ACP ammo and either drum or magazine feed ( 50 or 25
> rounds ), what with big trolls walkin around I am sure
> someone would of thought along these lines , bigger bullets
> for bigger targets , instead it seems to me from the
> sourcebooks i have that firearm manufacturers seem to think
> that all they are going to have to take down is a big human
> , there has gotta be a market ( even if it is just H.P.)

Well it's not CC but here's a thread from the dumpshock forums about Tommy guns that I
started a while back. Hope that helps.

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer