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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: "Cantrips"
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 11:13:05 +0100
>Also, are there any very low power spells that are like , god forbid
>$$&$'s cantrips, that have no drain but do not do have any "real"
>effects. Spells that would just have nuisance effects??

Not that I know of. The lightest thing you can construct with the Grimthingy
rules would be around [(F/2)-2]L, which you could cast at force 4 and still
take 2L Stun drain... make it exclusive for an enhanced effect and the same
drain...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Blabbering on like rubbish there...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 2
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: "Cantrips"
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:17:41 +0100
> >Also, are there any very low power spells that are like , god forbid
> >$$&$'s cantrips, that have no drain but do not do have any "real"
> >effects. Spells that would just have nuisance effects??
>
> Not that I know of. The lightest thing you can construct with the Grimthingy
> rules would be around [(F/2)-2]L, which you could cast at force 4 and still
> take 2L Stun drain... make it exclusive for an enhanced effect and the same
> drain...

The way I see it (play it) any mage can simply use the sorcery skill to
produce any "cantrip" effect. This means he can cast any low powered spell
that has no direct or indirest effect on himself or any other being at
no extra Drain cost. I dont know if this an official rule, but I think that
its first edition ....

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 3
From: Renegade <a018907t@*********.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US>
Subject: Re: "Cantrips"
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:00:23 -0500
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> The way I see it (play it) any mage can simply use the sorcery skill to
> produce any "cantrip" effect. This means he can cast any low powered spell
> that has no direct or indirest effect on himself or any other being at
> no extra Drain cost. I dont know if this an official rule, but I think that
> its first edition ....

I like the idea, purely for role-playing uses. Used to have a
mage who liked to flip an illusionary quarter (sans Two-Face). Our team
allowed things like this as long as there was no direct effect (damage,
movement, etc).
| GAT GC 2.0
"'Tis true; there's magic in the web | d--(++) H>++ s+: g+ !p !au a- w(+) v(++)
of it;" - Othello, Act 3 Scene 4 | C++++ US P? !L !3 E N++(+++) K? w--- M-
William Shakespeare | V -po+(+++) Y+ t 5 j+>+++ R+>+++ G+>++++
| tv+ b+++ D+ B--- !e+>+++ u** h+ f+ r+
| n---- y+>$ *laugh*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker | Renegade | a018907t@*********.seflin.lib.fl.us | THIS SPACE
| jricker@*******.fsu.edu | FOR RENT
Message no. 4
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: "Cantrips"
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 12:34:08 +1000
Jani Fikouras writes:

> I dont know if this an official rule, but I think that its first edition

While it isn't an official rule (1st or 2nd edition), the idea is pretty
nifty. I's still think that there should be a teeny weeny little bit of
drain, since the magician is still manipulating magical energy, but it
should be 2L or something very low though.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cantrips
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:52:44 -0600
David Foster wrote:
/
/ On a related topic: What happens when, while you're designing a
/ spell, you drop the Drain Level (L,M,S,D) to one below L, and your Drain
/ Power modifier is already negative? I was working on my cantrips and hit
/ this snag. No drain? Reduce the Power even further? {Although -5(L) is
/ very ridiculous, a Force 14 cantrip required to get a 2L drain code?
/ Talk about silly, a Force 14 anything will whomp big time.} Help!

I have no idea.

However, I would limit the Force of any Cantrip to 1. If you're
casting a cantrip at a Force higher than one then you're casting a
"real" spell.

I would also add that the maximum number of successes that can be
applied to a cantrip is equal to the Force of the cantrip (i.e., 1).

And just make the Drain code of any cantrip 2L.

Hmmm...

You know, cantrips are teaching tools and any real mage should be able
to cast them without a problem. Maybe rule that if a mage's Sorcery
skill is 3 or higher (more than twice the Force of a cantrip) that he
can cast it without a test. And when his Sorcery skill is 5 or higher
he can ignore the drain from cantrips.

Then you won't have to make the players roll dice every time they want
to use one of their cantrips.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 6
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Cantrips
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:27:16 -0400
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, David Buehrer wrote:

<snip my plea for cantrip help>
->However, I would limit the Force of any Cantrip to 1. If you're
->casting a cantrip at a Force higher than one then you're casting a
->"real" spell.

Ok, so cantrips can be considered Force 1/6 spells ( ]:-) )
Alright, using Grimoire 2 wasn't helping me make my cantrips, so
I'll suggest somethign else. In VR1, you could use Hacking Pool dice to
create an "on the fly" program. The rating of the program would be
appropriate to the number of dice poured into it, and you couldn't put any
additional hacking pool into it. Using this example:
A Force 1 cantrip (minor magical effect that cannot cause more
than a Light stun wound or a +1 to a single target number) would require 1
magic pool dice, a Force 2 cantrip would require 3, a force 3 would
require 6, so on and so forth. Needless to say, the likelyhood of
damaging someone with a cantrip would be very small (resisting TNs of
1-4(realistic maximum) with L damage and your opponent only gets their
sorcery skill in dice to a maximum number of successes equal to the Force
of the cantrip) but it would give the mage the versatility necessary.

Mage with an Int 6, Wil 6 and Magic 6 would have a magic Pool of
6. Also assume this mage has a Sorcery skill of 6. In most terms, this
is a pretty powerful mage (for a newbie). Mr. Magi here wants to cast a
cantrip at Mr. Sami who just pissed him off by calling his girlfriend a
troll (desite the fact she IS a troll, it was the WAY he said it). Mr.
Magi decides to cast a cantrip making him slip and fall. He allocates his
entire Magic Pool towards casting the cantrip giving it a Force of 3. The
GM decides Sami gets to resist with Quickness, which happens to be a 6 as
well. Mr. Magi rolls 6 dice (his sorcery skill) against a 6 (Sami's
Quickness) and scores two successes (which is less than the Force of the
cantrip, so we allow it). Mr. Sami feels himself falling and rolls 6 dice
against a TN 3 (Force of the cantrip) and scores 4 successes, enough to
resist the spell so he slips but catches himself. Mr. Sami then
approaches Mr. Magi (who's kinda nervous at this point) and tells him if
he tries something like that again he'll find out what Uzi rounds feel
like in the <censor>.
Even if a Character with a Int 9, Wil 9 and a Magic 12 (really
kick butt mage) would have a 10 magic pool and only be able to summon up a
Force 4 cantrip, and how hard is it for us to roll up a 4 in a defense
test?
Comments? Insults? Questions?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 7
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cantrips
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:06:51 -0500
----------
> From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
> Alright, using Grimoire 2 wasn't helping me make my cantrips, so
> I'll suggest somethign else. In VR1, you could use Hacking Pool dice to
> create an "on the fly" program. The rating of the program would be
> appropriate to the number of dice poured into it, and you couldn't put
any
> additional hacking pool into it. Using this example:
> Comments? Insults? Questions?

I suggested applying this same set of rules to cantrips more than a week
ago... but did anyone listen? Nooooooooooo. it just filters into their
unconscious, and they bring it back to haunt me and haunt me and haunt me!

::sound of mind breaking::

Nexx, who has had a very hard day
Message no. 8
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Cantrips
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:28:05 -0400
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Nexx wrote:

->----------
->> From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
->> Alright, using Grimoire 2 wasn't helping me make my cantrips, so
->> I'll suggest somethign else. In VR1, you could use Hacking Pool dice to
->> create an "on the fly" program. The rating of the program would be
->> appropriate to the number of dice poured into it, and you couldn't put
->any
->> additional hacking pool into it. Using this example:
->> Comments? Insults? Questions?
->
->I suggested applying this same set of rules to cantrips more than a week
->ago... but did anyone listen? Nooooooooooo. it just filters into their
->unconscious, and they bring it back to haunt me and haunt me and haunt me!
->
->::sound of mind breaking::
->
->Nexx, who has had a very hard day

Don't feel too bad. I don't remember seeing it either. I didn't
get nearly as much feedback on my smartgun link opinion as I wanted. I
think I got, like, 6 responses out of the 406 people on the list, only
about 20 of which are active.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cantrips
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:24:58 -0400
At 03:27 PM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote:

> Alright, using Grimoire 2 wasn't helping me make my cantrips, so
>I'll suggest somethign else. In VR1, you could use Hacking Pool dice to
>create an "on the fly" program. The rating of the program would be
>appropriate to the number of dice poured into it, and you couldn't put any
>additional hacking pool into it. Using this example:
<SNIPPED>

Seems like it would work. Keeps it simple, keeps the dice rolled to a
minimum (to my eyes) and doesn't appear to be unbalancing.

Of course to me, it would only be useful for those cantrips that would
affect someone else. For a "cigar lighter" cantrip I'd simply just let it
happen, no dice involved, for example.

Erik J.

Going through some older mail that I didn't respond to at the time for some
reason...

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Cantrips, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!