Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Centering and Drain
Date:	Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:04:00 EST

Message no. 1 Scrose wrote ...

> > a fish or whale, or at very worst, a large diving bird- the materials
> > FLEX. They could BE the motive system. In fact, such a system is being
> > reseached at MIT.
>
> Materials would not be the problem the control would be...
> Not only does it have to be able to move like a fish it would have to be
> able to think like one also. A dog-brain that drones have might not be
> up to
> the task of out manuvering predators. Seems like mighty expensive fish
> food to
> me IE if moves like a fish it probally looks like one to and your nice
> little drone
> could get eaten for some other critters dinner.. }:^)

Perhaps the one thing getting me about this is that this method of propulsion
wo

From:	Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:09:55 -0500

Message no. 2 Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast will do just finely."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:22:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
In-Reply-To: <57e280a.34af1ef9@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:32 AM 1/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>True, but this would be one application for the CINAS (formerly SINAB, which
>now means Caster-IN-A-Spell) ... and sticking it onto an anchoring or
>Quickening would also be an idea too ... imagine a quickened

From:	Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:12:21 +0000

Message no. 3 > I was planning a totem of Man.
>

Thats a hermetic mage.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:57:14 -0600
Reply-To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Nah, when all else has failed... Toxic Wave (calling it by its proper name...
> Damn these new-fangled revisionist titles anyhow). Kill everything, and
> eat a nice, big ol' crater in the ground to boot.

Which book? And I feel that a fire cloud will do just as good with out
as much collateral damage.And if you want that cast a firewall spell
(it's in awakenings.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:15:33 EST

Message no. 4 > Go for the smaller coverage sphere, better yet make it an elipsoid (long
> top to bottom). Say 2 to 2.5m long by 1.5mdia., that should really be
> effective.

Unfortunately, only spherical or flat shapes are possible with barrier
spells.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Salsa shark
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:43:11 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet
In-Reply-To: <34AE7FC5.1FDF@*****.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 03-Jan-98 wro

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:26:49 EST

Message no. 5 Carsten Gehling said on 7:42/ 5 Jan 98...

> This maybe a little Off-topic, but since Earthdawn and Shadowrun are
> connected:
>
> When in the world-history is Earthdawn set? Around 2000 B.C. ? Or when?

The length of a World is about 5200 years, so (if you assume ED is SR's
history, as has been disputed lately even though it was taken to be true a
few years ago...) it's about 7000 to 7500 years ago.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Salsa shark
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon,

From:	losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:35:57 -0500

Message no. 6 On Mon, Jan 05, 1998 at 02:34:31AM -0500, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> <SNIP Matrix as Mind storage facility.
>
> >So, you could just turn Bull loose on the Matrix itself. I guess the only
> >problem would be getting him back.
>
> That would be a problem.
> Just out of curiosity, have you read Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"
> series?
> The final book - "Children of the Mind" covers exactly just such an
> ocurance.
> An AI is discovered in the Net by the world government, and they conspire to
> turn off EVERY network in the world simultaneously to destroy her.
> Some VERY interesting ideas about the mind, and AI's and how to store a soul

From:	s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:18:02 -0600

Message no. 7 In a message dated 98-01-05 16:49:56 EST, you write:

> Does anyone know if FASA has covered the Groom Lake / Area 51 "mysteries"
in
> any of it's SR sourcebooks? Has anyone addressed it in their campaigns?

Unfortunately I agree with a lot of my friends I have here in Lafayette, there
is nothing in Area 51 anymore ... anything there has been moved to other
places that are not as much in the limelight anymore ...

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:20:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Carsten Gehling <alvion@****.UNI2.DK>
Subject: Sv: Sniper rifles
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Your ignorance is showing and we can consider this converstion at an =
end
> if you can not figure out this simple fact. One shot and one flash are
> difficult to trace and locat

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:22:54 EST

Message no. 8 On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Zixx wrote:

[snipp]
> > oh, nebenbei... wieviele hier verstehe eigentlich deutsch?
> > und wieviele nicht?
>
> Also ich verstehe kein Wort. Alles, was ich hier schreibe kommt eigentlich
> aus einem kleinen grauen japanischen Taschenueberstzer.....:)
>

Scheint ja wohl doch den einen oder anderen deutschsprechenden Vertreter
auf
dieser Liste zu geben. Mich wuerde aber mal interessieren, welcher der
hier Anwesenden deutsch versteht ohne ein .at, .ch oder .de am Ende...

Mirko
--
Check out:
http://193.25.22.84/~storm/index.htm The #midgard-Page, german
http://193.25.22.84/~storm/storm/index.htm My homepage, mainly german

Coming soon:
S4 - my Shadowrun-Page

-- mirko cegledi, dept. of computer sciences, fh-dortmund, germany
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:23:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: [OT]Spreckin' Doitsh (was: Re: R2 poll)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980106132625.9528A-100000@**********.informa
tik.fh-dortmund.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> > oh, nebenbei... wieviele hier verstehe eigentlich deutsch?
>> > und wieviele nicht?
>>
>> Also ich ve

From:	Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:37:33 -0500

Message no. 9 Les Ward said on 11:09/ 6 Jan 98...

> As always, Gurth is totally correct. One thing that used to bother me is
> that a fireball combat spell and the manipulation Gurth mentions would have
> the same drain code. (At least I think they would, I haven't designed
> spells in quite a while.)

Without reaching for my Grimthingy, I'd say they've got the same Drain
Code -- the base Drain is equal to the Damage Level, both are Physical,
and both use an elemental effect, so it's +1 DT and +1 DL and nothing
more.

> This seems sort of unfair, as the combat spell ignores armor and the
> manip does not; however, the other major difference between the two is
> that the target numbers are much different. The combat spell targets
> Body, while the manipulation spell has a fixed target of 4. You can
> easily create scenarios where either spell is "better" than the other.

On the whole, I've found it evens out pretty well. Manipulation spells are
more useful in some cases, combat spells in others. Still, I'd prefer
Fireball to be a manipulation spell simply because I like the idea of it
traveling to the target in the physical plane, so there are actually great
big balls of fire shooting from your hands ;)

> The sticky point in this analysis is that both spells have the same damage
> code. It seems like the combat spell should do the powerball-like damage,
> then some fire damage.

Well... it's easy enough to reason that the fire is what causes the
damage, whether or not the spell happens to be a modified Powerball. Only
if the players start using the spell design rul

From:	Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:20:04 +0000

Message no. 10 And verily, did Wyrmy hastily scribble thusly...
|
|I would like to join.Can I change his name.I would like to play anyways.
|

Errrm....

Wyrmy... He did say take it to private e-mail, didn't he?

<He said, easgerly awaiting a thwap from Barbie, who seems to have become
extremely thwap-happy>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:02:36 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Once More Into The Fray
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980106204205.3447edee@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jan 6,
98 08:52:18 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Bull hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Welcome back MC :]

Ditto...

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't st

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:18:48 EST

Message no. 11 Scrose wrote ...

> > >True Fox, it is something that does make certain spells that much less
> > >dangerous to mages, though you do have to admit that those are modifiers
> > > to the drain code and as such they could be centered away using
centering.
> >
> > Ummmmm no. No. I won't argue this further if you reply, but they are
not
> > situational modifiers, they are a formula to determine the spell's _base_
> > drain. The same as STR + 2 is the base damage for a sword, it determines
> > the actual base damage for the weapon.
>
> I've been watching this thread for the last few days and it didn't seem
> worth getting into but this is one of the few comments that actually
> made sense. Magic is supposed to be dangerous when used at very high
> power levels. but changeing the things the modifiers is a totally
> diffent thing changeing base drain..

Yes, I agree completely ... though it does open new doors to spells that have
even higher drain codes than the D6 of Hellblast, and would be most useful in
the performing of some rituals also ...

Mike

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:37:26 EST

Message no. 12 Justin wrote ...

> > "The base Drain Target, the target number of the caster's Drain Resistance
> > test, is always equal to one-half the rating of the spell, rounded down.
This
> > should be noted as (F / 2), as the actual Force Rating at which the spell
is
> > cast may vary. Drain target number modifiers may also apply that will
raise
> > or lower the Drain Target."
>
> > So, going on this information then, the base drain of any spell is (F /
2),
> > and then the modifiers to it are modifiers, and hence can be centered
away ...
> > though that is also subject to GM ruling ...
>
> This, I believe, is a misinterpretation of the rules....but I don't think
> it's really your fault. The base drain of a spell would be whatever is
> listed as the drain code for that spell. However, this argument is moot
> anyway, since you can't center against drain the way that was discussed
> earlier on this list.

Umm, not really, it is merely a difference in rule interpretation more ...

(reading through the Grimoire right now) ...

(certain sections being quoted)

"Centering tests can be made at any time a character uses a Magic skill. A
magician can center when casting a spell, conjuring a spirit, enchanting a
focus, and so on, but centering skills can not be used in the astral."

Okay, now that is an interesting limitation that I had not noticed before ...
oh, and I forgot that centering can also assist with Great-form tests during
conjuring up a spirit ...

"The magician makes the Centering test before making any other tests to
perform magic. A magician can also use centering to reduce drain or to reduce
penalties affecting his magic."

I can see the modifiers to drain being considered as a penalty to his/her/its
magic ...

> You roll your centering skill dice vs. a TN equal to
> the drain code for casting the spell. Every 2 successes is one success
> that you get to add to your drain resistance roll. However, you can only
> use these successes if you generate at least one success on the drain
> resistance test (not including centering dice). Centering takes the use of
> a Free Action and must be performed during the same combat phase as the
> spell is cast.

And yes, Justin you are right, but you are also ignoring that if a mage
performs a centering test to remove the target modifiers to the drain power he
can not use those same successes to help himself resist the drain also ... a
proverbial Catch-22 ...

> Thus, it doesn't matter what the BASE drain is. You can use centering to
> offset drain. Period. Not base drain or anything specific like that.
>
> Hope that clears things up a bit.
>
Nope, justs muddies things up further, though I would like to thank you Justin
... your responses caused me to relook through the centeirng rules again and
discover the limitation that centering may not be used in the astral when a
mage is projecting ...

Thanks,

Mike

From:	Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:07:05 +0000

Message no. 13 On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:18:48 EST AirWisp wrote

[SNIP]
> Yes, I agree completely ... though it does open new doors to spells that have
> even higher drain codes than the D6 of Hellblast, and would be most useful in
> the performing of some rituals also ...

With regards to reducing the drain in rituals, one of the ideas I've
been toying with is that for every additional base period of time
spent on the ritual the final drain code is reduced by 1 power.
The rules for fatigue when summoning allies could then be used to
work out the problems of staying up a few days.

Since in rituals everybody except the leader is free to leave the
area and respond to threats (as long as they don't use their magic
pool) without ending the ritual in theory (though not in my opinion)
it would be possible for the ancilliary people to take rest breaks.
The reason I don't like the idea is quite simply because of style.
Rituals shouldn't be a walk in and out affair :)

Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:46:24 +0100

Message no. 14 AirWisp said on 17:37/ 8 Jan 98...

> "The magician makes the Centering test before making any other tests to
> perform magic. A magician can also use centering to reduce drain or to reduce
> penalties affecting his magic."
>
> I can see the modifiers to drain being considered as a penalty to his/her/its
> magic ...

Could be, but the Grimoire refers to penalties that increase the _base_
TN. IMHO, the (F/2)+X is the base TN, anything on top of that (like the +2
DT when you're sustaining another spell) can be centered away.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
In the garden.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject:	Re: Centering and Drain
Date:	Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:08:16 +0100

Message no. 15 >> "The magician makes the Centering test before making any other tests to
>> perform magic. A magician can also use centering to reduce drain or to
reduce
>> penalties affecting his magic."
>>
>> I can see the modifiers to drain being considered as a penalty to
his/her/its
>> magic ...
>
>Could be, but the Grimoire refers to penalties that increase the _base_
>TN. IMHO, the (F/2)+X is the base TN, anything on top of that (like the +2
>DT when you're sustaining another spell) can be centered away.

I do agree. To be convinced, it suffice to consider the drains with (F/2)-X
(X>0). If X was a penalty, it would be a positive penalty (??!?).

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer