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Message no. 1
From: Me <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:18:27 +0000
I was wondering....
Would it be possible for a character to change his magical path from
hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a VERY traumatic experience in
his life? Say a Near Death Experience or some such thing? I was watching
a show about people who's life has radically changed due to NDEs. Their
whole outlook on life was changed. Would something like this have an
effect on thier concept of magic? And in game terms, would this require
some modifier to their magical activities due to the need to re-learn how
to use thier magic? What does everyone think?

Doug
Message no. 2
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 22:49:57 -0400
> I was wondering....
> Would it be possible for a character to change his magical path from
> hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a VERY traumatic experience in
> his life? Say a Near Death Experience or some such thing? I was watching
> a show about people who's life has radically changed due to NDEs. Their
> whole outlook on life was changed. Would something like this have an
> effect on thier concept of magic? And in game terms, would this require
> some modifier to their magical activities due to the need to re-learn how
> to use thier magic? What does everyone think?

I think it's very plausible.. And also that the paths are SO entirely
different that they would probably have to relearn ALL of their spells
from scratch. (If learning a spell at a different Force Rating requires
relearning the spell entirely, learning it from a different path should
as well.)

Since much of the background behind the Skills is likely to stay the same
(energy is energy, the paths teach different approaches but not different
ideas), I'd say they'd have to relearn them, but at Concentration level
instead of general skill level. Nature spirit conjuring is already a
Concentration anyway; I'd say much of Sorcery would need to be relearned
too. Magical Theory ratings will probably stay the same, although the
player may want to roleplay some confusion with the new approach.

Same goes for moving from shamanistic to hermetic -- which could happen,
I'd guess, if the shaman's Totem suddenly turns Its back on the shaman
and forsakes her for something she did.

Do these ideas sound reasonable?


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Program flowering --
My opinions are my opinions. | Procedures, functions, data
Please don't blame anyone else. | Bloom effervescent."
Message no. 3
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:29:49 +0300
> I was wondering....
> Would it be possible for a character to change his magical path from
> hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a VERY traumatic experience in
> his life? Say a Near Death Experience or some such thing? I was watching
> a show about people who's life has radically changed due to NDEs. Their
> whole outlook on life was changed. Would something like this have an
> effect on thier concept of magic? And in game terms, would this require
> some modifier to their magical activities due to the need to re-learn how
> to use thier magic? What does everyone think?
hmmmm i think there is a shaman in prime runners who can conjure elementals.
i think is the only thing that a shaman is not so strong as heremetic.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:11:51 +0200
How about a combination mage/shaman? (Sound rather munchkinous, in case
anyone wants to point that out :) Sort of like the physical magicians from
The Book Whose Name We Won't Mention (Yet) For Fear Of Copyright Lawsuits,
but instead of physad/magician it could be shaman/mage :)

Nah...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
079: Mouse not found. Driver not installed. Click to continue.
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 5
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:51:32 -0700
>I was wondering.... Would it be possible for a character to change
>his magical path from hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a
>VERY traumatic experience in his life? Say a Near Death Experience
>or some such thing? I was watching a show about people who's life
>has radically changed due to NDEs. Their whole outlook on life was
>changed. Would something like this have an effect on thier concept
>of magic? And in game terms, would this require some modifier to
>their magical activities due to the need to re-learn how to use
>thier magic? What does everyone think?

I would'nt play it as a near death experience, because many runners
will have several Near Death Experiences. I would however play,
that a totem, could visit a Mage and offer to take that mage under
it's wing (or paw,foot,etc...). The mage would make a concious
decision about the offer, and if he accepts... Viola...
Loose all spells (although I might allow those points already spent
to be reallocated to similiar spells) and start learning from
scratch.

that's the way I would play it.



*POSSIBLE QUEEN EUPHORIA SPOILER ALERT*





*other than maybe a possible possession and forced change.*
i.e. a forced forget of magic and a change in their aura
(forced tward a new totem) kind of like the way, the insect spirits
took over Robert Craft in queen euphoria, they swarmed his wolf
totem (killed it) and took over Robert Craft or at least it was
a forced totem change, which also changed his personality and
behavior.

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 6
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@********.CC.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:18:35 -0400
On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, Me wrote:

> I was wondering....
> Would it be possible for a character to change his magical path from
> hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a VERY traumatic experience in
> his life? Say a Near Death Experience or some such thing? I was watching
> a show about people who's life has radically changed due to NDEs. Their
> whole outlook on life was changed. Would something like this have an
> effect on thier concept of magic? And in game terms, would this require
> some modifier to their magical activities due to the need to re-learn how
> to use thier magic? What does everyone think?
>
> Doug
______________________________________________________________________________

I would say that it is definatly possiable in theory, however,
translating it to game terms might be a bit more difficult. In essence
The mage/shaman would have to start out all over again. The slate would
be wiped clean so to speak. The character in question would have the
knowledge of magic but not the ability to cast it as he/she used to.
This idea would also take a lot of roll playing on behalf of the gm
and player. IF the player cannot incoprorate this idea into their
character's personality, I would have to say don't do it. It would
probally be easier to go from hermetic to shamanic paths than to go from
shamanic to hermetic. >

_______________________________________________________________________________


"Come Friends Run With me Towards Danger"
-Unknown MST3K quote

Scott Spencer
sts100z@********.cc.odu.edu

"Nothing can stop us......we're on a mission from Glod"
-Cliff the Troll from Terry Prachett's Soul Music
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 7
From: Bryan Prince <prince%xray.dnet@******.ROC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing one's magical path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:54:55 -0400
Doug Asks:------
I was wondering....
Would it be possible for a character to change his magical path from
hermetic to shamanistic? Possibly due to a VERY traumatic experience in
his life? Say a Near Death Experience or some such thing?...

Doug
---------------
In White Wolf #27(?) they list a group of additional totems for Shadowrun
and among them is BAT. BAT, as a totem, only accepts those who have had
a near death experience-the NDE being defined as someone who "died" and
was later revived. The advantage of BAT is that such characters start as
0 level initiates. They still have to make the save vs loss of a magic
point, however.

Bryan
Message no. 8
From: "Patrick D. Little" <pdl@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:14:08 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------
How about a combination mage/shaman? (Sound rather munchkinous, in case
anyone wants to point that out :) Sort of like the physical magicians from
The Book Whose Name We Won't Mention (Yet) For Fear Of Copyright Lawsuits,
but instead of physad/magician it could be shaman/mage :)

Nah...

--
Gurth


----------End of Original Message----------
I personally do not think this is a good idea. Not from a standpoint of it's against this
rule or that rule but it is a matter of tradition. The magic that the characters use
stems from their understanding of their tradition. The views of magic for mages, shamans,
and other magical traditions for that matter are incompatible. This is also the answer to
what the difference is between a shaman and a hougan. IMHO, it is that they are both from
different traditions.

-------------------------------------
Name: patrick
E-mail: pdl@******.net
Date: 09/01/95
Time: 16:21:59

This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 10:36:00 +0200
>>How about a combination mage/shaman? (Sound rather munchkinous, in case
>>anyone wants to point that out :)
>[...]
>>Nah...
>
>I personally do not think this is a good idea.

I wrote it as a joke, definitely not as a serious suggestion. Still, if
anyone would want to do it _and_ can justify it within the game system, I'd
say go ahead and do it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rechter: "Waarom verbouwde u nederwiet in uw kassen?"
Man: "Probeert u maar eens komkommers te verkopen aan een coffee shop."
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 10
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:01:14 +0000
On Thu, 31 Aug 1995, S.F. Eley wrote:

> Since much of the background behind the Skills is likely to stay the same
> (energy is energy, the paths teach different approaches but not different
> ideas), I'd say they'd have to relearn them, but at Concentration level
> instead of general skill level. Nature spirit conjuring is already a
> Concentration anyway; I'd say much of Sorcery would need to be relearned
> too. Magical Theory ratings will probably stay the same, although the
> player may want to roleplay some confusion with the new approach.

So you are saying the character should scrap the skills and start all
over at concentration level? Or would they keep thier current skill and
just not use it, using the new concentration instead. It's kind ahard to
totally forget what you ahve learned and are familiar with. Scrapping the
skill just doesn't sound plausible to me. Also, teh sorcery skill
couldn't be concentrated if the magician wanted to use both sorcery AND
ritual. How would you work around this?

How about instead of scrapping the skill, we just drop it down to say
half, and make him work back up from there. That way, he just doesn't
forget his old knowledge but instead incorporates what he USED to know
into what he now has to learn differently.

However, If the origional skill was a concentration, how would we change
that? I don't have an idea right now. What do you guys think?

>
> Same goes for moving from shamanistic to hermetic -- which could happen,
> I'd guess, if the shaman's Totem suddenly turns Its back on the shaman
> and forsakes her for something she did.

Thats how I was thinking too.

> Do these ideas sound reasonable?

Sure.

> Blessings,
>
> _TNX._
>
> Stephen F. Eley

Later.

Doug
Message no. 11
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:08:01 +0000
On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Gary Carroll wrote:

> I would'nt play it as a near death experience, because many runners
> will have several Near Death Experiences. I would however play,
> that a totem, could visit a Mage and offer to take that mage under
> it's wing (or paw,foot,etc...). The mage would make a concious
> decision about the offer, and if he accepts... Viola...
> Loose all spells (although I might allow those points already spent
> to be reallocated to similiar spells) and start learning from
> scratch.

Sure, except that without the trauma, (not necessarily by NDE only), the
mage may think the totem to be nothing more than a halucination, or
something similar. [shrug] I just don't know.

> that's the way I would play it.

Thats kewl.

>
> Thanks
> Gary C.
>

Later
Doug
Message no. 12
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 02:13:23 +0000
On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Scott Taylor Spencer wrote:

> I would say that it is definatly possiable in theory, however,
> translating it to game terms might be a bit more difficult. In essence
> The mage/shaman would have to start out all over again. The slate would
> be wiped clean so to speak. The character in question would have the
> knowledge of magic but not the ability to cast it as he/she used to.
> This idea would also take a lot of roll playing on behalf of the gm
> and player. IF the player cannot incoprorate this idea into their
> character's personality, I would have to say don't do it. It would
> probally be easier to go from hermetic to shamanic paths than to go from
> shamanic to hermetic. >

Of course. Isn't that what ROLE-playing is all about? The creation and
evolution of a character? Even when that evolution takes him in
unexpected directions?

> Scott Spencer

Later
Doug
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Changing one's Magical Path
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 10:27:00 +0200
>How about instead of scrapping the skill, we just drop it down to say
>half, and make him work back up from there. That way, he just doesn't
>forget his old knowledge but instead incorporates what he USED to know
>into what he now has to learn differently.

I used to have a player who used to play a schizofrenic (sp?) character:
half decker and half street samurai, and before you all shout "MUNCHKIN!"
let me explain that the other personality took over at sometimes rather
inopportune moments, or _wouldn't_ take over when really needed (she was
basically a decker, but the split personality was more of a fighting
machine). What we did was call some skills "decker skills," and some others
"samurai skills." Whichever personality was active at the moment could use
"its" skills at full level, but the skills for the other personality only at
one-half (rounded down, I believe).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rechter: "Waarom verbouwde u nederwiet in uw kassen?"
Man: "Probeert u maar eens komkommers te verkopen aan een coffee shop."
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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