Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Paul J. Carmen" <odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>
Subject: Character Business?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:02:11 -0500
One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before? Any
suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out how to
make it work.

Thanks
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/ Paul J. Carmen _/_/
_/_/ odin@*******************.k12.ct.us _/_/
_/_/ Imagine something funny here _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Message no. 2
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 09:24:09 -0800 (PST)
On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Paul J. Carmen wrote:

> One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
> surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before? Any
> suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
> rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out how to
> make it work.

It could be worse: one of my players puts EVERYTHING he
earns into getting his own small corp. Anyway, the way I'm handling it is
that profits go into expansion of the business, with sometimes no profit
to show. This allows you to use the store as a neat plot device (ex.
someone rips off the next shipment of guns) without giving the character
too much extra money.

Hope that helps
Bill

The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5+ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G++ e h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ D1
Message no. 3
From: bqtech1@***.pipeline.com (Andrew Ragland)
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:58:24 -0500
On Feb 23, 1996 12:02:11, '"Paul J. Carmen"
<odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>' wrote:

>One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
>surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before? Any
>suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
>rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out how
to
>make it work.

I'd make him spend a B on Resources and buy some Contacts like an ammo
dealer and a BATF agent so he can keep his license. You might think about
making him buy the guy who controls the license as a Buddy. Figure his
income for Medium, after expenses, if he's running the usual sort of
redneck-area surplus store. Give him lots of grief and hassle on a daily
basis running the store - hiring, firing, employee troubles, customer
hassles. If he gets some extra money, make him upgrade his store security
or pay off some inspector or other. I had a player whose character was a
physical adept/talismonger with a store on the edge of the Barrens. He's
had all sorts of trouble keeping the store running while he goes running,
even having bought the Tribe background and having fellow Cascade Orks to
come in and help man the counter.

--
Andrew W. Ragland, Product Support Manager, R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant
bqtech1@***.pipeline.com *** The Internet is a Process, not a Thing
GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++) G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+ O+$ V+ +PS- +PE-
Y+ PGP @*+ 5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++
I would rather be attacked than unnoticed. For the worst thing you can do
to an author is to be silent as to his works. -- Samuel Johnson
Message no. 4
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:15:08 -0600 (CST)
A few of my characters have regular jobs (a streetdoc, a private detective,
a bodyguard, etc). Basically, I let them maintain their existing
lifestyle by working between shadowruns. If they spend a month working
on a run, then they have to pay for it out of their take. It works out
pretty well.


--
Rick Jones Never stand in, on, above, below, beside, or anywhere
rick@******.com near a grave, tomb, crypt, mausoleum, or other house
Meyrick@***.com of the dead. --The Horror Movie Survival Guide
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 5
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 18:53:56 -0600
At 12:02 PM 2/23/96 -0500, Paul J. Carmen wrote:
>One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
>surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before? Any
>suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
>rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out how to
>make it work.

Maybe resolve income the way rockers are handled? Pay "X" amount for the
job and have a permanent lifestyle so long as you work at it. Don't work
often enough and it'll slip a level or more. Work really well and maybe you
get a notch up. Just a possible take on this. :)


------------------------------
Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
------------------------------
* Golden Tiger Association *
* Submission Fighting Team *
------------------------------
* Fight til they scream... *
------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:35:18 +0100
Paul J. Carmen said on 23 Feb 96...

> One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
> surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before? Any
> suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
> rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out how to
> make it work.

One of our PCs owns a gun store. He set it up after making some money by
shadowrunning, and only sells legal weaponry at the moment. He's been
meaning to go sell illegal guns as well, but I still have to figure a way
of determining whether or not Lone Star will knock at his door.
One of the requirements would be for the PC to have a SIN, either real or
a good fake. Without it, I doubt you could set up a true store in the
UCAS, of any kind.

The way we handled the expenses part was, we set out the real-world costs
of keeping a store running (my mother used to own one (a flower shop
though, not a gun store :), so that info wasn't too hard to come by), and
we tied it into some die rolls to find how much income he had. In the
end, he usually only just broke even *grin*
If you want, I can post the costs we worked out here, or mail them to you
personally.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Once it's gone, you can never lose it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: "Paul J. Carmen" <odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 18:42:38 -0500
At 12:35 PM 2/24/96 +0100, you wrote:

>One of our PCs owns a gun store. He set it up after making some money by
>shadowrunning, and only sells legal weaponry at the moment. He's been
>meaning to go sell illegal guns as well, but I still have to figure a way
>of determining whether or not Lone Star will knock at his door.
>One of the requirements would be for the PC to have a SIN, either real or
>a good fake. Without it, I doubt you could set up a true store in the
>UCAS, of any kind.
>
>The way we handled the expenses part was, we set out the real-world costs
>of keeping a store running (my mother used to own one (a flower shop
>though, not a gun store :), so that info wasn't too hard to come by), and
>we tied it into some die rolls to find how much income he had. In the
>end, he usually only just broke even *grin*
>If you want, I can post the costs we worked out here, or mail them to you
>personally.

Thats exactly what my player wants to do. Send that info if you get a
chance. Thanks much!
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/ Paul J. Carmen _/_/
_/_/ odin@*******************.k12.ct.us _/_/
_/_/ Hip Flac Slinging Madman _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 11:31:35 +0100
Paul J. Carmen said on 24 Feb 96...

> >If you want, I can post the costs we worked out here, or mail them to you
> >personally.
>
> Thats exactly what my player wants to do. Send that info if you get a
> chance. Thanks much!

OK, first we assumed that the character would buy exactly what he sold, to
make bookkeeping easier. If he doesn't want to do that, it makes
everything a bit more complex but it can be done.

Next we calculated the total value of all the stuff that was fo sale in
his shop: about 115000 nuyen (he had a bit too much cash at the time :),
and set his monthly sales at 2D6x10,000 + 3D6x1000 nuyen, or an average
of 80,500 nuyen (about 70% of the total value of the store's merchandise).

Expenses each month were decided to be as follows:

* Purchasing of merchandise: 75% of sales
* Employees: 3500 nuyen per person for guards
2250 nuyen per month for sales staff
(This made for a total of 13750 nuyen: 2 guards and 3 sales
persons)
* Rent: 2500 nuyen
* Electricity etc: 1D6x100 + 600 nuyen
* Insurances etc: 2500 nuyen
* Taxes etc. over own income: 3000 nuyen

==> A grand total of 19850 + 1D6x100 nuyen + 75% of sales.

With these figures, it was a matter of rolling high every month to break
even, and often he ended up losing money on the store, which suited me
just fine :)

Now what we do every month when the player pays for his lifestyle costs,
we roll for his store. As an example, if he rolls 9 and 14, he gets 90,000
+ 14,000 nuyen = 104,000 nuyen from the store. 75% of this is
automatically gone again, leaving him with 26,000. From this is subtracted
19,850, leaving him with 6150 nuyen. Then another 1D6+600 (for 800 in
total), and he has an income of 5350 nuyen that month.
This may seem much, but I was fortunate just now to have rolled high for
income and low for the variable cost (not that that's much, but still...)
Had I rolled 4 and 8 for the income, he'd have lost 8650 nuyen. On
average, a few hundred nuyen will be lost on the store each month.


Note that none of us are business wizards, so the figures may be
unrealistic. Also note that things like wages and insurance costs were
based on Dutch values for such things, not American ones. Still it works
out in the end so I as the GM have nothing to complain about...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tell me what that makes us.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: ftmck@**.netcom.com (Frank McKinney )
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 17:25:44 -0800
You wrote:
>
>One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a Army
>surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this before?
Any
>suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of his
>rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out
how to
>make it work.
>
>Thanks
>Paul J. Carmen


How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay 10
times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle. That counts as
investing in the store, inventory purchasing and maintenance, etc., and
saves you from having to keep track of tedious income figures. The gun
shop now becomes something he could lose and a possible scenario
starter.
Good Luck!
Frank
Message no. 10
From: "Paul J. Carmen" <odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 23:36:12 -0500
At 05:25 PM 2/25/96 -0800, you wrote:

>How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
>character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
>memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay 10
>times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle. That counts as
>investing in the store, inventory purchasing and maintenance, etc., and
>saves you from having to keep track of tedious income figures. The gun
>shop now becomes something he could lose and a possible scenario
>starter.
>Good Luck!
>Frank

Ahhh.. I kinda like that idea. Very little tracking of extra crap. Thanks
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/ Paul J. Carmen _/_/
_/_/ odin@*******************.k12.ct.us _/_/
_/_/ Hip Flac Slinging Madman _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Message no. 11
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:24:03 +0100
Paul J. Carmen said on 25 Feb 96...

> >How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
> >character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
> >memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay 10
> >times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle.

100 times the monthly price -- a lifetime of Squatter lifestyle costs you
10K :)

> Ahhh.. I kinda like that idea. Very little tracking of extra crap. Thanks

But it does mean he'll only *spend* money on the shop, and doesn't receive
anything in return...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tell me what that makes us.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 12
From: Mike Alex <mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:00:17 -0700 (MST)
>
> > >How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
> > >character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
> > >memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay 10
> > >times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle.
>
> 100 times the monthly price -- a lifetime of Squatter lifestyle costs you
> 10K :)
>
> > Ahhh.. I kinda like that idea. Very little tracking of extra crap. Thanks
>
> But it does mean he'll only *spend* money on the shop, and doesn't receive
> anything in return...
>

How about resolving it by having him pay for a permanent
lifestyle, then assuming he puts some work into his shop he gains the
benefits of the next higher lifestyle?

Mike Alex, mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu
"Resistance is futile, (if < 1 ohm)."

Freedom of Speech
R.I.P.
1786-1996
Message no. 13
From: "ccusers" <CCRODRIG@****.indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 12:02:53 EST
> >One of my players wants to have his character be the owner of a
Army
> >surplus/gun/ammo type store by day.Has anyone delt with this
before?
> Any
> >suggestions for resolving income and what not? The shop is part of
his
> >rather extensive background so I allowed it..now I have to figure out
> how to
> >make it work.
>
> How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
> character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
> memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay
10
> times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle. That counts as
> investing in the store, inventory purchasing and maintenance, etc.,
and
> saves you from having to keep track of tedious income figures. The
gun
> shop now becomes something he could lose and a possible scenario
> starter.

Actually it is 100 times the monthly lifestyle cost for a permanent one.
---Sedah Drol
Message no. 14
From: "Paul J. Carmen" <odin@*********.educationconnection.k12.ct.us>
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:25:23 -0500
At 10:24 AM 2/26/96 +0100, you wrote:

>> >How about handling by having him buy his permanent lifestyle, like in
>> >character creation. I don't have my books with me at work, but, if
>> >memory serves, if you want to buy a lifestyle permanently, you pay 10
>> >times (?) the price of the yearly (?) lifestyle.
>
>100 times the monthly price -- a lifetime of Squatter lifestyle costs you
>10K :)
>
>> Ahhh.. I kinda like that idea. Very little tracking of extra crap. Thanks
>
>But it does mean he'll only *spend* money on the shop, and doesn't receive
>anything in return...

Ahhh..true.. thats not quite what I have in mind...<sigh>.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/_/ Paul J. Carmen _/_/
_/_/ odin@*******************.k12.ct.us _/_/
_/_/ Hip Flack Slinging Madman _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Message no. 15
From: h_laws@**********.utas.edu.au
Subject: Re: Character Business?
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 11:24:16 -1000
>>But it does mean he'll only *spend* money on the shop, and doesn't receive
>>anything in return...
>
>Ahhh..true.. thats not quite what I have in mind...<sigh>.

No, he'll have a large initial outlay and then the shop will maintain his
lifestyle at that level for the rest of his life. That's a return on the
investment, admittedly it takes 10 months before he's better off than
converting the money to cash for the run, but still. He's set between
adventures.

****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************

Mad Hamish

Hamish Laws
h_laws@**********.sandybay.utas.edu.au

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Character Business?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!