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Message no. 1
From: Ryan Wallis <R.Wallis-1@********.ac.uk>
Subject: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:36:18 GMT
Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
let character deaths occur in your campaigns?
I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
ex machina?
ryan
Message no. 2
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:41:15 -0700 (MST)
Ryan Wallis wrote:
|
|Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
|How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
|let character deaths occur in your campaigns?
|I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
|time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
|ex machina?

To date none of my PCs' lives have ever ended because of bad luck on a dice
role. And so far only three deaths have occured due to stupidity.

For the first one a character stuck around when he should have run away.
There was allready a deus ex machina built into the adventure (I thought
something else was going to kill him) so the character was brought back, at
the cost of a permanent karma point from his karma pool.

For the second the same character completely ignored the fact that someone
was trying to kill him. So I let my NPC geek him. But again, I had a deus
ex machina ready for him. After the bomb went off his character hatched
from the egg of a great dragon (as a _human_, not as a dragon). The dragon
of course expects something in return. And he lost another karma point
again.

For the third a character knowingly had three HMGs pointing at him when he
attacked an NPC. He's dead and he aint coming back.

I only use a deus ex machina if it furthers my campaign. If a character
dies and I can't think of an evil, twisted reason for bringing him back, he
dies.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer
mailto:dbuehrer@****.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:56:35 -0600 (CST)
Ryan Wallis wrote:
> How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
> let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

In a game like Shadowrun, where life is cheap, I'd say, "grease 'em all."
But if you are going to make death a permanant thing, then you don't want
to accidentally kill 'em. I've discovered in the game I ran last week
that the opposition was very likely to snuff the runners, so I'm trying
to come up with ways to handle the situation in a way that won't end
in too much bloodshed.

--
Rick Jones Y'know, Joel, say what you will, but Roger Corman
rick@******.com pushes my buttons.
Meyrick@***.com --MST3K
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 4
From: Ryan Wallis <R.Wallis-1@********.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:17:38 GMT
>To date none of my PCs' lives have ever ended because of bad luck
>on a dice
>role. And so far only three deaths have occured due to stupidity.
>-David

I let two characters die because of stupidity. For one run they
decided a frontal assault on an arcology was part of an ingenious
plan. They security guards took a few pot shots then geeked them.
The players got mad and wouldn't play for a while.

Hell, they deserved it.

ryan
Message no. 5
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:13:40 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Ryan Wallis wrote:

> Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
> How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
> let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

I'm more brutal about this than most GM's I know. If a player
can play a character well, enjoys the character, and isn't stupid, the
character tends to live longer not through any doing of mine but simply
because the player is generally more careful not to get into suicidal
situations.
By the same token, if the situation warrants it, I have no
problems waxing a character. When that happens, we chalk up a new story
into the campaign history (which is *long*) and the player starts on his
or her next character.

> I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
> time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
> ex machina?

The probability that the character dies due to a random chance
die roll is directly proportional to the stupidity of the character's
actions that led to that random die roll.

Marc
Message no. 6
From: shadow@**.kensco.net (The Shadowdancer)
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:52:42 GMT
I never let a character die because of a lucky die roll. I run under
the rule of letting the characters kill themselves through stupidity.
And to date I have only had two character deaths. One was at GenCon
last year. I stated in the game description to bring your own
characters, and someone came and created one on the spot. They ran
into a group of initiates and took a force 8 fireball. All survived
except him.

The second was partly character stupidity and partly player stupidity.
I am not going into details, but he REALLY fragged up in real life,
skipped town, and because of what happened, the other characters
geeked him.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever God they
follow will smile upon them.
I waltz through the Shadows with my Gods, and I lead!!
-The Shadowdancer (shadow@**.kensco.net)
Message no. 7
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:18:33 -0800 (PST)
Hmmmm..... deus ex machina implies really obvious manipulation. I
usually just plan the encounters such that I am 80% sure my players will
survive. So I don't really use it that often. As for character death,
I've only had one character die, and that was through great role-playing
(He was a sun shaman. The team had been hired to kidnap and deliver
alive a teen kid. A couple of the other runners in the team were offered
a lot more money if they just killed the kid. So they arranged for a bomb
that would stop the kids car to go off with greater effect, to kill all
inside ala "chunky salsa." The sun shamn caught wind of this and arranged
for a spirit to guard the kid the moment the bomb went off, and then shot
the other runners to aid in the kids escape to saftey. He was promptly
gunned down by the resident sam......)
Oh well, I hope that somewhat answers your questions

Bill

The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
Message no. 8
From: Zaeki@***.com
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:28:47 -0500
In a message dated 96-01-23 16:24:12 EST, you write:

>I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
>time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
>ex machina?

With their bad sence of Judgement! VERY!
Message no. 9
From: Douglas Berry <dberry@********.hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:38:45 -0800
On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 Ryan Wallis <R.Wallis-1@********.ac.uk> said:


>Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about: How
do you
>GMs out there handle character death? How often do you let character
deaths
>occur in your campaigns? I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a
great
>character *all the time* but how often do you save the characters from
death
>via a deus ex machina?

Lay the character up for a long time.. change something major.. (I know
of one decker who was paralyzed by a Troll working for Fuchi).

Have the character disapper for a time, only to be found in a corp's med
lab, possibley with some new toys implanted!

Whatever you chose, it should hurt, and advance the story


--
Douglas E. Berry - dberry@******.net
"Just because I work for the Federal government doesn't mean I'm an expert
on cockroaches."
-Fox Mulder
Message no. 10
From: bqtech1@***.pipeline.com (Andrew W. Ragland)
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:32:58 -0500
On Jan 23, 1996 16:16:10, 'Ryan Wallis <R.Wallis-1@********.ac.uk>' wrote:

>I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
>time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
>ex machina?

Thi sis a real good reason for rolling your dice where the players can't
see them. If a really awful roll comes up that would trash one of the
player characters in a really stupid fashion, lie about the die roll. On
the other hand, runs are dangerous. If a player gets shot and the guard
upstages the damage enough, well, that's the biz, chummer. I tend to give
the more legendary characters a break, as it would be a really lousy end to
the story for them to die in some obscurely stupid fashion. I don't make
allowances for player stupidity, though. Anybody who does something dumb
gets the full brunt of the dice.

Power gamers hate me. My NPCs can tell who the biggest, meanest person on
the field is, and concentrate their fire. Oh well.

--
Andrew W. Ragland, Product Support Manager, R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu *** bqtech1@***.pipeline.com
GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++) G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+ O+$ V+ +PS- +PE-
Y+
PGP @*+ 5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++
Look then, into thine heart, and write! -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow,
Voice of the Night, Prelude, Stanza 19
Message no. 11
From: bqtech1@***.pipeline.com (Andrew W. Ragland)
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:33:28 -0500
On Jan 23, 1996 16:50:49, 'dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)' wrote:

>I only use a deus ex machina if it furthers my campaign. If a character
>dies and I can't think of an evil, twisted reason for bringing him back,
he
>dies.

I did something like that in an Earthdawn campaign. The human sky raider
had made enemies among a scorcher tribe that was in town. He talked the
troubadour into going bar hopping with him. An NPC in the party told the
sky raider, "If you die stupidly in a street brawl behind some grungy
tavern, nobody will sing your song." The guy ignored the advice and went
down into
the Bilge anyway (this was in Servalen).

The scorchers spotted him and showed up with reinforcements. Both the sky
raider and the troubadour ended up dead. The bodies were brought back to
the riverboat the group was travelling upon, and the Questor of Garlen (an
NPC) prayed over them. She told the group, well, the sky raider's dead and
gone, but the troubadour could be brought back if you're willing to help.
Everybody had to take a permanent point of damage from blood magic, and the
Questor used their karma to connect with the troubadour's spirit and the
Passions. The troubadour got taken into the kitchen and walked through an
encounter with Astendar and Garlen both. He was told in no uncertain terms
that he would marry the local girl he had gotten pregnant, settle down and
raise a family. When he awoke, he became a living Group Pattern Item, a
very uncomfortable thing indeed.

I had lots of fun with this one...

--
Andrew W. Ragland, Product Support Manager, R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu *** bqtech1@***.pipeline.com
GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++) G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+ O+$ V+ +PS- +PE-
Y+
PGP @*+ 5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++
Look then, into thine heart, and write! -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow,
Voice of the Night, Prelude, Stanza 19
Message no. 12
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:30:45 -0600
At 04:17 PM 1/23/96 -0500, Ryan wrote:
>Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
>How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
>let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

Death has only occurred once to my characters (mean ol' nasty sniper rifles)
and only one other time than that to anyone else's character (bad planning).
The way I figure it, if you die, you die. It takes a lot to go into
overflow and actually end up on a slab.

What we have had though are countless chances for death. A few were beaten
mercilessly by trolls with clubs to the point of physical damage before we
could save them. More than a couple got tagged by autofire or shotgun
blasts or insect spirits for the 10 box special. But it usually ends there,
we slap a trauma patch on 'em and hit the DocWagon wristband.
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------------------------------------------------------------
Bob "TopCat" Ooton <topcat@******.net>
------------------------------------------------------------
"Outside they are gathering and their fangs are bared, for
the bigger your fangs, the bigger your share."
-- Sol Invictus "Here Am I"
------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:44:19 +1100 (EST)
>Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
>How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
>let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

It happens... Most often as a reward for stupid behaviour. For example
(slight spoiler) there is a chance in the original "Harlequin" adventure
for a character to buy the farm because they do the wrong thing...

>I know an unlucky dice roll should not geek a great character *all the
>time* but how often do you save the characters from death via a deus
>ex machina?

If it comes up because they get unlucky in combat, well... I'll wait and
see what the other players in the adventure do, and what the player
himself does. If, for example, I riddle a guy with three Mods, and he
still wants to stand up and duke it out, then I'll quite pitylessly throw
a fourth at him. This means that my players start being a lot more
cautious after they get around the Serious wound level, as this is where
a Deadly will push them over body overflow.

If a character does go down, and the other players aren't able to help,
I'll discuss it with the player. They may decide to bring in a different
style of character (for example, I recently introduced a decker this way)
If not, well, I'll see what I can do. I don't like killing off players.

(OTH, I've only had to do that once... usually there's a player nearby to
stabilise the victim)


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 14
From: Wratchet-RN@**.arizona.edu
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:35:01 -0700
In all the time I have been running SR (since its creation), my players have
had six pc's die, and one become a vampire.
{You failed to mention, for the last two years the group played next to nil.}
[Gotcha der, smarty.]

The first death was quite heroic, a pc ran back into a building in which
they had planted a bomb, to rescue a small child he saw in one of the upper
windows. Without any details, he saved the child but got stuck in the
building when it blew up. The second death was caused by their first
encounter with the Invae (wounds + poisoning + bad rolls = death).
[Fragin bugs! Kill them all.]

The third was pure stupidity. The player had their character stay in a van
(which did not run), while a WASP was attacking the group. Everyone else
fled the very visible target (while everyone was yelling at the gentleman
remaining in the van to get out) as the missle was launched. Needless to
say, stupidity can be lethal as well.
{Alas, alas, poor Yorik. I knew him Horatio.}
[Huh.]

The 4-6 deaths were mage types who basically burned themselves up,
cooperatively distroying a Toxic Free Spirit that was muy nasty.
[Silly wizzers. Should of just let it run. No need to chase the fragger
and kill themselves wiping it out. Glad dey did tho.]
{How sentimental can you be.}

I've always run and played in very lethal games. In **&*, I can remeber
being very thankful for Raise Dead and Resurrection spells.

(Thanks for listening I know she can ramble, just put up with her.)
Shalom.
Nurse Wrachet
*****************************************************************
Grades, while not the most valuable thing we may have
are a measure of who we are. So remember:
A is for Anal
B is for Beautiful
C is for Cute
D is for Denial
E is for Escape
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
This thought is sponsored by:
"Nurse Wratchet":Wratchet-RN@**.arizona.edu
Web Page still is process, always & forever
*****************************************************************
Message no. 15
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 00:05:05 -0500 (EST)
On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, TopCat wrote:

> >Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
> >How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
> >let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

Actually, come to think of it, until recently, I hadn't killed
off nearly as many characters in my campaign as the *other characters*
had geeked. Hmmm.

Marc
Message no. 16
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:59:08 +0100
At 04:17 PM 1/23/96 -0500, Ryan wrote:

>Just an open question about something that I've been thinking about:
>How do you GMs out there handle character death? How often do you
>let character deaths occur in your campaigns?

I try to avoid it if at all possible, since it grinds the game to a halt
-- player starts sulking, etc. No PC has ever truly died in a game I ran,
but Deadly wounds have been taken on several ocassions due mainly to
stupidity (some spoilers follow)



If anyone recalls the suppression fire debate of a few days ago, the guys
using the suppression fire/aimed fire tactics were the Aztechnology
"Senior Technicians" in Ivy & Chrome. Three out of four PCs in the group
took a Deadly wound there before the last of the guards was killed.
Needless to say, that run pretty much ended there and then, but the PCs
survived because they were dragged to a hospital in time and they had
enough nuyen on their credsticks.

Another time was during A Killing Glare, where there is this one dragon in
the urban brawl match... One PC took a hit from the dragon's paw, and
another got torched by the Flame Projection power. Again, the near-dead
PCs were rescued by the other PCs so they didn't die.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
They're watching my every sound
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: tsmu@*****.lsa.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:40:24 -0500 (EST)
On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> Actually, come to think of it, until recently, I hadn't killed
> off nearly as many characters in my campaign as the *other characters*
> had geeked. Hmmm.
>
> Marc

Now Marc don't get any ideas. We like being alive to sow carnage <grin>.


Brent (tsmu@*****.edu)
Message no. 18
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Character Death
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:59:21 -0500 (EST)
>
> Actually, come to think of it, until recently, I hadn't killed
> off nearly as many characters in my campaign as the *other characters*
> had geeked. Hmmm.
>
> Marc
>
>
It still counts if something an NPC (ie you) did makes the player geek
another playre. Its not like we just woke up and decided we didn't like
him playing so his characters gone. (That would cause a lot more
character death:)

Alex

Further Reading

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