Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 23:33:32 -0400
On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Dustin Wood wrote:

> Illness, fear of water or flying, or a strict code against killing
> are examples of this. Anyone have feedback?

Yes. First, quit quoting an entire 50 line message to add only
six lines of response to the end of it. Make judicious use of your
message editor.
Second, I agree wholeheartedly. Characters are no fun unless
they have something that sets them apart from the rest of the "normal"
world. Whether you are a manic-depressive, a megalomaniac, an aquaphobe,
or a raving chain-smoker, it's the character traits that make the
character memorable. The hardest part is getting players to realize this
and take a chance.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:10:10 -0700
>>it's the character traits that make the
character memorable. The hardest part is getting players to realize this
and take a chance.<<

But watch out. If you have a character with a fondness for swimming,
and a sadistic GM, the next thing you know your character gets magically
morphed into an Earthdawn T'skrang and faces going the rest of its life
even more hunted and unable to walk the streets than a normal Shadowrunner.

But I agree. Quirks are fun. All of mine are so full of quirks they
can hardly walk straight....

-E
Message no. 3
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 05:45:41 -0700
On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Dustin Wood wrote:
>
> > Illness, fear of water or flying, or a strict code against killing
> > are examples of this. Anyone have feedback?
>
> Second, I agree wholeheartedly. Characters are no fun unless
> they have something that sets them apart from the rest of the "normal"
> world. Whether you are a manic-depressive, a megalomaniac, an aquaphobe,
> or a raving chain-smoker, it's the character traits that make the
> character memorable. The hardest part is getting players to realize this
> and take a chance.

As a player I definitely agree. Personally I like to play silghtly
deluded characters, ones who think that they are better than they really
are. This usually gets them in to all sorts of trouble above and beyond
normal, which aside from being fun to roleplay out of gives you the
additional pleasure of doing the completely unexpected on a regular basis
and driving your GM nuts.

Another thing I like to do with my characters is give them a past that is
always trying to catch up with them.
Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:35:15 -0400
On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:

> Another thing I like to do with my characters is give them a past that is
> always trying to catch up with them.

Often times, you don't even need to do this in the characters'
backgrounds. My players are notorious for not cleaning up loose ends,
which only leads to a past that's trying to throttle you. Stuff like
this can be developed during game play (but yes, its even more fun when
you start out screwed...)

Marc
Message no. 5
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:34:15 -0500
>
> On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:
>
> > Another thing I like to do with my characters is give them a past that is
> > always trying to catch up with them.
>
> Often times, you don't even need to do this in the characters'
> backgrounds. My players are notorious for not cleaning up loose ends,
> which only leads to a past that's trying to throttle you. Stuff like
> this can be developed during game play (but yes, its even more fun when
> you start out screwed...)
>
> Marc
>
Sometimes it is not even your own fuckup- I seem to have a vampiric/mage enemy
who has hounded me through three runs, and may have actually caught me. Now i
have no choice but to use myself as bait to find and kill the bastard.
Problem- I am a samurai. 6 will only goes so far. Where to hide my astral
backup? Yes it makes things much more intersting, but you can hound a
caracter inot near inaction.
Message no. 6
From: Kelly Martin <kelly@*******.BLOOMINGTON.IN.US>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:00:07 EST5
"Stephen" == Stephen M Bugge <bugge@********.EDU> writes:

Stephen> As a player I definitely agree. Personally I like to play
Stephen> silghtly deluded characters, ones who think that they are
Stephen> better than they really are. This usually gets them in to
Stephen> all sorts of trouble above and beyond normal, which aside
Stephen> from being fun to roleplay out of gives you the additional
Stephen> pleasure of doing the completely unexpected on a regular
Stephen> basis and driving your GM nuts.

one of the players in a campaign i GMed (which never got going well,
unfortunately) was a rabid metahuman rights activist. the mere sight
of a humanis policlubber would get him into a seething rage, usually
followed immediately thereafter by some sort of conflict. made things
interesting, at least. if he had kept that i up (and i have little
doubt that he would have) i would have had to prepare a small supply
of typical humanis members for use as cannon fodder...

in real life this guy is a vocal gay rights activist. no connection,
i'm sure. :)

k.
--
kelly martin <kelly@*******.bloomington.in.us>

When Elvis Presley died in 1977, there were 37 Elvis impersonators in the
world. Today there are 48,000. If the current trend continues, by the year
2010, one of every three people in the world will be an Elvis impersonator.
-- Michael Legault
Message no. 7
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 16:04:00 MDT
>On Sun, 10 Sep 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:
>As a player I definitely agree. Personally I like to play silghtly
>deluded characters, ones who think that they are better than they really
>are.

Aren't all players like this? No really I agree that charactor quirks are
the sign of a healthy campaign. One of the players in our campaign is a
serious alcholic which has led to some problems on some of their runs. One
my charactors is serious drug user. His doss always has a bowl of pot
burning like incense and he's noted for lighting up a joint while dealing
with the Mr Johnsons. Of course he's a 17 year old punk ganger but hey...
hes fun to play.

mnj
Message no. 8
From: Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:11:03 -0700
>Sometimes it is not even your own fuckup- I seem to have a vampiric/mage enemy
>who has hounded me through three runs, and may have actually caught me. Now i
>have no choice but to use myself as bait to find and kill the bastard.
>Problem- I am a samurai. 6 will only goes so far. Where to hide my astral
>backup? Yes it makes things much more intersting, but you can hound a
>caracter inot near inaction.

I agree that Hunteds (to coin a hero system term) is an excellent planning
hook, but its important that the GM use discretion when hounding his players
or resolving the hunted will quickly become A number one priority. This is
bad for two reasons, one is that the GM no longer has that tool, and the
other is because the players have become annoyed at being hounded and want
to get rid of the hounder.
Message no. 9
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:27:00 -0500
>Aren't all players like this? No really I agree that charactor quirks are
>the sign of a healthy campaign. One of the players in our campaign is a
>serious alcholic which has led to some problems on some of their runs. One
>my charactors is serious drug user. His doss always has a bowl of pot
>burning like incense and he's noted for lighting up a joint while dealing
>with the Mr Johnsons. Of course he's a 17 year old punk ganger but hey...
>hes fun to play.


I have known players that are as bad, if not worse, as your guy. But I think
that some times people go over board with the disavantages just to get the
extra points. Now I`m not downing on it (personally I like it) but it should
be up to the DM because he/she will know best if the players will go overboard.

K.K.
Message no. 10
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:18:56 +0200
}On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:
}
}> Another thing I like to do with my characters is give them a past that is
}> always trying to catch up with them.
}
} Often times, you don't even need to do this in the characters'
}backgrounds. My players are notorious for not cleaning up loose ends,
}which only leads to a past that's trying to throttle you. Stuff like
}this can be developed during game play (but yes, its even more fun when
}you start out screwed...)
}

It is (at least for me) difficult to play a character without a
history, whether it catchs up is up to the GM, but the history of the
individual molds the way that he / she / it thinks

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 11
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:13:45 GMT
> On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Stephen M. Bugge wrote:
> > Another thing I like to do with my characters is give them a past that is
> > always trying to catch up with them.

Marc A Renouf replied:
> Often times, you don't even need to do this in the characters'
> backgrounds. My players are notorious for not cleaning up loose ends,
> which only leads to a past that's trying to throttle you. Stuff like
> this can be developed during game play (but yes, its even more fun when
> you start out screwed...)

Oh, boy... From a throwaway "and she spent two weeks locked in a motel
room going cold turkey", my wife's PC ended up being the catalyst for a
series of adventures that ended with the players overthrowing the High
Prince of Tir Taingire and placing their chosen pretender on the throne...

The whole thing grew out of the "Elven Fire" adventure, and the films
"Total Recall" and "Jacob's Ladder". Loose ends in a PC's background
are
one of the most powerful weapons a GM has. Grab them and pull... but you
have to be willing to accept the consequences :)

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 12
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 01:17:16 -0400
> >>it's the character traits that make the
> character memorable. The hardest part is getting players to realize this
> and take a chance.<<
>
> But watch out. If you have a character with a fondness for swimming,
> and a sadistic GM, the next thing you know your character gets magically
> morphed into an Earthdawn T'skrang and faces going the rest of its life
> even more hunted and unable to walk the streets than a normal Shadowrunner.

Heh. This actually happened in your game? From the descriptions you've
posted here, and what I've seen off the Web pages, y'all play a truly
involved, truly WEIRD Shadowrun game. I'm highly jealous. >8->


> But I agree. Quirks are fun. All of mine are so full of quirks they
> can hardly walk straight....

Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment here.. I like character quirks
too, but they have their ups and downs. They make life very interesting,
BUT if they get in the way too much, it can threaten the PCs' effectiveness
as a team.

The campaign I GM has a great deal of humor in it. Most of it comes from
the characters, not from the runs I set up. Dressing up a male Troll in a
Girl Scout uniform as part of a "serious" interception plan. The Tong
ganger character works at Mon Hing's Chinese restaurant. The decker is a
drunken, arrogant dwarf who continues to be the group's decker because he's
blackmailing the rest of them.

It's great stuff. But when it gets past the planning and onto the run
itself, they stumble. The ganger is picking up weapons, chips,
paperweights, everything he can _instead_ of providing covering fire like
he was supposed to. Because it's in character. The Troll has to constantly
make Intelligence rolls to keep from doing things totally wrong. Because
it's in character. Fire a shot at the Raven Shaman, and she'll put the rest
of the plan on hold to hunt you down. Because you threatened her, and
that's in character for her. I'm not saying any of these things are
_intrinsically_ bad, they do make life more entertaining, but it sometimes
gets in the way of the group operating as a TEAM, and that can be bad.

I'm not sure what should be done about this. Certainly not toning down
the quirks -- I like them, although they sometimes slow the game down or
screw up the run. What I'm trying to do is instill the idea of
"professionalism" on the players, but I'm not sure how to go about that.
Maybe I'll just have to Xerox the first twenty pages of _Fields of Fire_
and make everyone read it.

Has anyone else had this problem? How do you get people to STOP playing
"Look how goofy I can be in 2055" and get down to business when it's
necessary, without crushing the role-playing spirit? Or is it that I'm
seeing things wrong, and MY attitude is the problem? Any ideas or
experiences welcome.. It's far from ruining my game, but it does bother
me a bit.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "There are two parties -- a right wing
My opinions are my opinions. | party, and a very right wing party."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - S. Arrowsmith
Message no. 13
From: Dustin Wood <cukoo@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 22:34:34 -0700
>Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment here.. I like character quirks
>too, but they have their ups and downs. They make life very interesting,
>BUT if they get in the way too much, it can threaten the PCs' effectiveness
>as a team.

My players occasionally do that too, the real problem comes when they aren't
trying to be funny or kid, they're serious and think it'll work (blind?
dumb? I dunno).

I have a little input on professionalism though. One thing I have found to
help engrave that on them is to have characters start reacting to them like
they know the PCs are goofy.

Maybe set up a couple encounters where the PCs are invited to a meet but
turned down as soon as Johnson sees them because he recognizes them or
something. The PCs could easily wind up in jail for a short time, and would
get the crap kicked out of them by the other inmates (hey Bubba, look as the
sissy troll....) the same thing could happen in tough parts of town,
especially with an active grape vine. Have it effect their reputations.

The Johnsons might even lower their price and tell them why or specifically
instruct them against playing clown games.
Message no. 14
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:21:16 -0700
>-- Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan
>I'm not sure what should be done about this. Certainly not toning
>down the quirks -- I like them, although they sometimes slow the
>game down or screw up the run. What I'm trying to do is instill
>the idea of "professionalism" on the players, but I'm not sure how
>to go about that. Maybe I'll just have to Xerox the first twenty
>pages of _Fields of Fire_ and make everyone read it.

>Has anyone else had this problem?

Yes...
On several occasions. My group has added a few new characters, one
of which is extremely munchkinous. Well this new overwhelming
personality now seems to dominate a good percentage of the time.
That wouldn't be a problem, but unfortunately this new person feels
that leg work (finding out information and planning) is a waste of
time. So all of a sudden these runs that the group used to breeze
through without a scratch, (many times without seriously hurting
innocent people) are now very difficult, very bloody. The PC
injuries have also sky-rocketed due to the new disorganization.

>How do you get people to STOP
>playing "Look how goofy I can be in 2055" and get down to business
>when it's necessary, without crushing the role-playing spirit? Or
>is it that I'm seeing things wrong, and MY attitude is the problem?
>Any ideas or experiences welcome.. It's far from ruining my game,
>but it does bother me a bit.

Well I'm not sure you can do it without hurting feelings. But it
is all part or role-playing, so that's how I handeled it.

The groups new wetwork theory still needed information to start the
run. So you ask yourself, how did they get the information they
needed? Well I hadn't noticed/remembered how. So I went back
through my notes, and realized that the fixer that hired them
was always giving them 80% of the information. So on the next run
a new Mr Johnson shows up, (an all corporate guy), he want's to
hire them, he want's them to be descrete, he want's them to
be bodyguards, for him. He give's them a disk with the info
a credstick with *alot of money* and says well do you accept.
The first thing that comes out of the PC's mouths... "what's the
gig, who are your enemies, where is it, can we expect paranormals,
wait a second we didn't even negotiate this price,etc..."
Mr Johnson answers "bodyguarding., that's your job to find out.,
it's on the disk, that's your job., I'm paying more that
adequate a price."
So now in a pissed off tone one says ok I want to start scanning
the disk to find out all the info.
Mr Johnson reiterates "I need your acceptance before I can allow
you to view my clients travel plans."
PC. "We're not accepting until we see the disk and get a full
profile of the job."
Mr Johnson "Fine I'll take my money else where."
PC, "but but but..."

Alot was learned that day.

Hope this helps.
Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 15
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:11:33 GMT
In message <199509130517.BAA10936@*****.gatech.edu> SHADOWRN@*****.nic.surfnet.nl
writes:
> Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment here.. I like character quirks
> too, but they have their ups and downs. They make life very interesting,
> BUT if they get in the way too much, it can threaten the PCs' effectiveness
> as a team.
>
> It's great stuff. But when it gets past the planning and onto the run
> itself, they stumble. The ganger is picking up weapons, chips,
> paperweights, everything he can _instead_ of providing covering fire like
> he was supposed to. Because it's in character. The Troll has to constantly
> make Intelligence rolls to keep from doing things totally wrong. Because
> it's in character. Fire a shot at the Raven Shaman, and she'll put the rest
> of the plan on hold to hunt you down.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? How do you get people to STOP playing
> "Look how goofy I can be in 2055" and get down to business when it's
> necessary, without crushing the role-playing spirit? Or is it that I'm
> seeing things wrong, and MY attitude is the problem? Any ideas or
> experiences welcome.. It's far from ruining my game, but it does bother
> me a bit.

Basically ask this question. "Would you pay these clowns twenty grand each
for a mission? Especially if the success or failure of that mission might
make or break your promising executive career?"

If the team are too weird, let them fail. Don't kill them, but when a
group squabble starts, have the enemy security arrive then while they are
distracted. (That's what the enemy *would* do if they had you under
surveillance and were preparing to attack...) Or, if they begin arguing
during an infiltration, have someone hear them! :)

Failure is a great motivator. Make sure they understand what got them
detected. That way, they'll keep the squabbles and the quirkiness to where
it can be amusing without too much consequence.

My Coyote shaman was a case in point: most of the time she was endlessly
playing idiot practical jokes and card tricks on her team-mates, running
a game of find-the-lady in the bar they were staking out, whatever.
But when the lead started to fly, her warped sense of humour was confined to
additional special effects on her Hellblast spell (removes and ignites
target's footwear... you HAVE to have smoking boots left!) because anything
else would be stupid, not funny.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 16
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:52:34 +0200
[Description of some Xtremely COOL players deleted]

> I'm not sure what should be done about this. Certainly not toning down
> the quirks -- I like them, although they sometimes slow the game down or
> screw up the run. What I'm trying to do is instill the idea of
> "professionalism" on the players, but I'm not sure how to go about that.
> Maybe I'll just have to Xerox the first twenty pages of _Fields of Fire_
> and make everyone read it.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? How do you get people to STOP playing
> "Look how goofy I can be in 2055" and get down to business when it's
> necessary, without crushing the role-playing spirit? Or is it that I'm
> seeing things wrong, and MY attitude is the problem? Any ideas or
> experiences welcome.. It's far from ruining my game, but it does bother
> me a bit.

*SIGH*
I envy you, I wish I had players like that. My players are all
*profesionalism* and no roleplaying, they even go so far as to ruthlesly
supress the ocasional attempt at roleplaying that is bound to crop
up every now and then.
While this makes the group more focused (note my usage of the word
focused - not more efficient) it definitely makes for booooooring
sesions.

PS: (To my players) Hear that guys ? :) Next time better have those
girlscout uniforms ready :)

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-- C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)

-po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 17
From: Bryan Linn Schuler <schu1545@****.GMI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Character Quirks
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:52:10 -0400
> *SIGH*
> I envy you, I wish I had players like that. My players are all
>*profesionalism* and no roleplaying, they even go so far as to ruthlesly
>supress the ocasional attempt at roleplaying that is bound to crop
>up every now and then.
> While this makes the group more focused (note my usage of the word
>focused - not more efficient) it definitely makes for booooooring
>sesions.
>
>PS: (To my players) Hear that guys ? :) Next time better have those
>girlscout uniforms ready :)
>
>

Yea, I know all about that. Some of my groups back home are like that.
One guy I had was talking to a man (kinda like a Johnson) after he did a mission
for him. The player is the "ultra-professional-I-have-no-life-or-humor-etc"
type. Well, I decided to play on this and knew that the only skills the
player had were combat oriented (nothing else!). So after the player briefed
the "Johnson" on the mission and how well it worked, the Johnson made him a few
social offers: golf corse, baseball game, dinner, etc. He started asking about
the player's religeous beliefs, political beliefs, trying to get to know who
he was dealing with a little better. Well, it turned out after much roleplaying
the Johnson got fed up and cursed the player for being a cold heartless
mother-fragger and didn't hire him onto any more runs. It got my player
thinking for a while.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Bryan Schuler <schu1545@****.gmi.edu>
-Frobozz of Gridpoint (http://apollo.gmi.edu/~schu1545/shadowrun.html)
-Frobozz of TimeWarp MUD (telnet quark.gmi.edu 5150)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Character Quirks, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!