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Message no. 1
From: Night Wing nightwing@**************.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:26:00 -0500
Now that's 50 kg per point of body
body 5 = 250 kg
250 x 2.205= 551.25 lbs



Does anyone else find that this it alittle too much weight??

Night Wing



I apologize for the first copy that I sent in HTML.
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 06:01:55 EDT
In a message dated 10/16/1999 3:30:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nightwing@**************.com writes:

> Now that's 50 kg per point of body
> body 5 = 250 kg
> 250 x 2.205= 551.25 lbs
> Does anyone else find that this it alittle too much weight??

Well actually, yeah we've been discussing the concept of Character Weight
(and SR weight in general at times) for quite a while. It continues to seem
to be one of the bigger sore spots within the games "descriptive mechanics".

> I apologize for the first copy that I sent in HTML.

Hey, at least you got it figured out. After spending the last 5 hours
getting that *DAMN* new HD of Mike B's all figured out and his stuff reloaded
(some of which works better I'd like to point out ;-) <and yes, I did find
"Lunatic" and proceed to play around with *that game* for a while>, I
*really* respect the people who at least try a whole lot more.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:12:30 +0200
According to Night Wing, at 3:26 on 16 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Now that's 50 kg per point of body
> body 5 = 250 kg
> 250 x 2.205= 551.25 lbs
>
> Does anyone else find that this it alittle too much weight??

Yes, and the problem is that FASA seems to insist on making body weight a
multiple of Body rating, rather than, say, a multiple plus a fixed
modifier. For example, Body x 10 kg + 50 kg might work a lot better as a
very rough guide -- Body 1 = 60 kg, Body 6 = 110 kg.

But in a way, basic body mass solely on Body rating is somewhat silly.
Strength and/or Quickness should factor in as well, I think. But I don't
feel like writing up a formula that includes all three attributes and that
also fits with RL body weights :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I would have it all if I'd only have this much
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:32:17 -0500
> But in a way, basic body mass solely on Body rating is somewhat
> silly. Strength and/or Quickness should factor in as well, I
> think. But I don't feel like writing up a formula that includes
> all three attributes and that also fits with RL body weights :)

There's a really good article about this in The Shadowrun Supplemental, #9.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 5
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:46:01 CDT
>Now that's 50 kg per point of body
>body 5 = 250 kg
>250 x 2.205= 551.25 lbs
>Does anyone else find that this it alittle too much weight??
> Night Wing

Personnaly I think thats a little excessive. I could understand a Troll
weighing that much, but a Human who is fit enough to Run. Thats just a
little heavy.



Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 6
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:57:02 -0700
>But in a way, basic body mass solely on Body rating is somewhat silly.
>Strength and/or Quickness should factor in as well, I think. But I don't
>feel like writing up a formula that includes all three attributes and that
>also fits with RL body weights :)


Race would figure heavily into this as well, a troll with a body of 6 will
weigh more than a human or elf with a body of 6..

--lomion
Message no. 7
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:17:48 CDT
>Race would figure heavily into this as well, a troll with a body of 6 >will
>weigh more than a human or elf with a body of 6..
>--lomion

I don't know about that, seeing as a Troll with a body of 6 is the (Troll)
equivilant to a human with a body of 1. It might be so anyway, seeing as it
says how (for example) Dwarfs have a higher muscle density then humans. But
then again you have to consider size too.
Does anyone know the average wieght to size ratio for humans (like how many
pounds per inch of height or kilograms per centimeter)?

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 8
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:45:26 -0700
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:17:48 CDT "Grim Shear" <grim_shear@*******.com>
writes:
> >Race would figure heavily into this as well, a troll with a body of 6
will
> >weigh more than a human or elf with a body of 6..
> >--lomion

> I don't know about that, seeing as a Troll with a body of 6 is the
(Troll)
> equivilant to a human with a body of 1. It might be so anyway, seeing
as it
> says how (for example) Dwarfs have a higher muscle density then humans.
But
> then again you have to consider size too.
> Does anyone know the average wieght to size ratio for humans (like how
many
> pounds per inch of height or kilograms per centimeter)?

The growth is exponential. It's how many kg per cubic centimeter. The
formula I use is: 47 (lbs per cubic foot) * the cube of (height in
inches) * .00136 * .08898 * .08898 then convert to kilograms (divide by
about 2.2). Fer chicks, multiply the final answer by about .8 or so.
That's for what's considered "average" build. =)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 9
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:27:14 -0400
D. wrote:
> The growth is exponential. It's how many kg per cubic centimeter. The
> formula I use is: 47 (lbs per cubic foot) * the cube of (height in
> inches) * .00136 * .08898 * .08898 then convert to kilograms (divide by
> about 2.2). Fer chicks, multiply the final answer by about .8 or so.
> That's for what's considered "average" build. =)

The many suggestions are all great input, but don't forget that just placing
a character's weight where it is desirable and reasonable without rules is
OK too. As there are so many things in SR3 that require rules to handle
correctly, some things can simply be guided by common sense without written
rules. And if rules don't work, don't use them, for the sun will rise
tomorrow anyway. Fun is far more important that rules accuracy, trust me.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:12:46 -0700 (PDT)
> The growth is exponential. It's how many kg per
cubic centimeter. The formula I use is: 47 (lbs per
cubic foot) * the cube of (height in inches) * .00136
* .08898 * .08898 then convert to kilograms (divide by
about 2.2). Fer chicks, multiply the final answer by
about .8 or so. That's for what's considered
"average" build. =)
> D. Ghost

The pound to kg conversion is more accurate if you
multiply by 0.4536, rather than dividing by 2.2.


====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 11
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:20:25 -0700
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> The pound to kg conversion is more accurate if you
> multiply by 0.4536, rather than dividing by 2.2.

2.2 is easier to remember =P~

(Besides I use Quatro Pro's @******* function which says 1 pound is
0.453592309748812 kg and 1 kg is 2.20462291469134 lbs [which is NOT the
same ratio ;) ].)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 12
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:02:31 +0200
dghost@****.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:17:48 CDT "Grim Shear"
<grim_shear@*******.com>
> writes:
> > >Race would figure heavily into this as well, a troll with a body of 6
> will
> > >weigh more than a human or elf with a body of 6..
> > >--lomion
>
> > I don't know about that, seeing as a Troll with a body of 6 is the
> (Troll)
> > equivilant to a human with a body of 1. It might be so anyway, seeing
> as it
> > says how (for example) Dwarfs have a higher muscle density then humans.
> But
> > then again you have to consider size too.
> > Does anyone know the average wieght to size ratio for humans (like how
> many
> > pounds per inch of height or kilograms per centimeter)?
>
> The growth is exponential. It's how many kg per cubic centimeter. The
> formula I use is: 47 (lbs per cubic foot) * the cube of (height in
> inches) * .00136 * .08898 * .08898 then convert to kilograms (divide by
> about 2.2). Fer chicks, multiply the final answer by about .8 or so.
> That's for what's considered "average" build. =)
>

hmmmm... I am 5'11 in my socks, and the formula gives me 82.3 kg's

Except that I weigh 60kg...

I seem to be of at least average strength, and have a wiry build (not at
all big, but not particularly skinny, either. I look extremely fit, but
couldn't run around the block without suffering from a heart-attack :-)

On the other hand, a friend of mine who is 6'4, used to work as a
bouncer, played rugby, and took steroids for a number of years weighs
around 95 kg's... the formula says he should weigh 100.9

Perhaps you should multiply buy 0.8 for guys, and 0.7, or even 0.6 for
wimmin?

Wait, I just remembered another friend... he's the same height as me,
weaker than me, has a bigger build, isn't overweight, and he weighs 80
kg's

<shrug> maybe I'll just skip formulae altogether :-)
--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com

QVANTI CANICVLA ILLA IN FENESTRA
Message no. 13
From: Jeremy Baker meroeandjeremy@*******.com.au
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:37:54 +1000
>> Does anyone know the average wieght to size ratio for humans (like how
>many
>> pounds per inch of height or kilograms per centimeter)?
>
>The growth is exponential. It's how many kg per cubic centimeter. The
>formula I use is: 47 (lbs per cubic foot) * the cube of (height in
>inches) * .00136 * .08898 * .08898 then convert to kilograms (divide by
>about 2.2). Fer chicks, multiply the final answer by about .8 or so.
>That's for what's considered "average" build. =)
>
>--
>D. Ghost


Another method could be based on the BMI (Body Mass Index)
calculation, used to determine obesity, (at least by the Australian Defence
Force.)
The formula is-
BMI=Weight (in kgs)/Height ^2 (ie. height*height) (in
meters)

The result is then compared to the table below (NB. these results are not
necessarily perfect as it is from memory)
BMI<20 is underweight
20<=BMI<% is normal range
25<BMI<) is overweight
29<BMI<3 is obese
33<BMI is morbidly obese.

eg. of above formula
Height 0 cms; Weight = 80kg
80/(1.9*1.9)".1 Hence person is in normal weight range.

JB.
Message no. 14
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:09:58 +0200
According to dghost@****.com, at 0:20 on 18 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> 2.2 is easier to remember =P~
>
> (Besides I use Quatro Pro's @******* function which says 1 pound is
> 0.453592309748812 kg and 1 kg is 2.20462291469134 lbs [which is NOT the
> same ratio ;) ].)

Are you using an early Pentium? ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:41:11 -0700
On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:09:58 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to dghost@****.com, at 0:20 on 18 Oct 99, the word on
> the street was...
> > (Besides I use Quatro Pro's @******* function which says 1 pound is
> > 0.453592309748812 kg and 1 kg is 2.20462291469134 lbs [which is NOT
the
> > same ratio ;) ].)

> Are you using an early Pentium? ;)

P2 Celeron 466
I think it's Quatro Pro's values... It doesn't matter much if you're not
dealing with some pretty immense numbers. =)

Btw, concerning your rant on accuracy in another message, I like to make
calculations using as many digits possible in each step and round
properly (or slightly improperly) at the end.

Also, if you say "My character weighs 200 lbs. What's that in
kilograms?", that is technically infinite significant digits.
Additionally, 10 pounds is ONE significant digit; 10. pounds is two
significant digits. So, is 100 pounds 1 or two significant digits?
That's why, when dealing with significant digits, it's customary to use
scientific notation. :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:32:59 +0200
According to dghost@****.com, at 7:41 on 18 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Btw, concerning your rant on accuracy in another message, I like to make
> calculations using as many digits possible in each step and round
> properly (or slightly improperly) at the end.

Which is unnecessary when you look at it... One or two more digits than
what you'll be rounding off to gives all the accuracy you'll need, and
saves you lots of typing on your calculator/keyboard.

> Also, if you say "My character weighs 200 lbs. What's that in
> kilograms?", that is technically infinite significant digits.
> Additionally, 10 pounds is ONE significant digit; 10. pounds is two
> significant digits.

Well, yes, but we can assume the 10 lbs to have been measured to whole
pounds, not to tens of pounds.

> That's why, when dealing with significant digits, it's customary to use
> scientific notation. :)

But that doesn't invalidate my point -- it just doesn't make sense to
convert 3 lbs to 1.3608 kg... I'll agree that 1 kg is a bit too rough for
this, but 1.3 or 1.4 would suffice.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Glenn Royer groyer@********.EDU
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:35:46 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Grim Shear <grim_shear@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.


> >Race would figure heavily into this as well, a troll with a body of 6
>will
> >weigh more than a human or elf with a body of 6..
> >--lomion
>
> I don't know about that, seeing as a Troll with a body of 6 is the (Troll)
> equivilant to a human with a body of 1. It might be so anyway, seeing as
it
> says how (for example) Dwarfs have a higher muscle density then humans.
But
> then again you have to consider size too.
> Does anyone know the average wieght to size ratio for humans (like how
many
> pounds per inch of height or kilograms per centimeter)?
>
> Grim Shear

ive always assumed that 50kg per point of body was a typo, and that they
meant 50 lbs. per point of body....

dont forget that FoF has a weight-per-point-of-body multiplier based on
race... IIRC, human was 24kg/point.
Message no. 18
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Character Weight and Apologies to the list.
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:30:38 CDT
>ive always assumed that 50kg per point of body was a typo, and that >they
>meant 50 lbs. per point of body....

That would make a lot more sense, especially if the average body is 3
(aka 150 lbs, it might be a little light).

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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