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Message no. 1
From: Dirk Benkert <d.benkert@*****.GEOID.DE>
Subject: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:23:14 +0200
Hi Folks

Does anyone know a pice of software for charakter creation? I don´t w=
ant to
carry a "ton" of sorcebooks anymore.
Furthermore I think using a software should speed up charakter creation=
.

db
Message no. 2
From: Patrick McCormick <furyfrog1@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:02:22 -0700
There are several pieces of software you can use to
create Shadowrun Characters, commonly called
Character Generators, There's one Paolo makes it's a
bit out of date and inaccesable at the moment,
there's also ne by Mike Hartmann that would be really
good if it didn't crash all the time, but you have to
pay for that one.

The one by Mike Hartman is at:
http://members.tripod.com/~runrig/
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 3
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:57:43 EDT
In a message dated 9/24/1998 9:16:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
furyfrog1@**********.COM writes:

> There are several pieces of software you can use to
> create Shadowrun Characters, commonly called
> Character Generators, There's one Paolo makes it's a
> bit out of date and inaccesable at the moment,
> there's also ne by Mike Hartmann that would be really
> good if it didn't crash all the time, but you have to
> pay for that one.
>
> The one by Mike Hartman is at:
> http://members.tripod.com/~runrig/
> _______________________________________

Oh really??? I think some people at FASA would be happy to know this little
tidbit...

Anyone else agree?

-K
Message no. 4
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:49:08 -0700
> There are several pieces of software you can use to
> create Shadowrun Characters, commonly called
> Character Generators, There's one Paolo makes it's a
> bit out of date and inaccesable at the moment,
> there's also ne by Mike Hartmann that would be really
> good if it didn't crash all the time, but you have to
> pay for that one.
>
The one I'm writing is going to be free for at least the shadowrun side
of it...my friends which are helping me, are forcing me to charge for
the rest of it though...but I'm not charging anything more than 5 bucks
a pop, with free upgrades. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 5
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:15:51 -0500
----------
> From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
>
> > there's also ne by Mike Hartmann that would be really
> > good if it didn't crash all the time, but you have to
> > pay for that one.
> >
> > The one by Mike Hartman is at:
> > http://members.tripod.com/~runrig/
> > _______________________________________
>
> Oh really??? I think some people at FASA would be happy to know this
little
> tidbit...
>
> Anyone else agree?

I very much agree... I take it you've already forwarded it to FASAMike?
Message no. 6
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:42:43 -0700
> Hi Folks
>
> Does anyone know a pice of software for charakter creation? I don´t
> want to
> carry a "ton" of sorcebooks anymore.
> Furthermore I think using a software should speed up charakter
> creation.
>
> db
>
I'm working on one myself right now, but it will include other rpg's as
well...so far it's up to SR, Gurps, Rifts, and AD&D. It's not done =
yet,
but well, on it's way. :) There is a piece of softare that I've beta
tested for someone a while ago...but it didn't work...

Here's the site.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/3230/index.html

Hope this helps. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 7
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:37:24 -0700
> Oh really??? I think some people at FASA would be happy to know this
> little
> tidbit...
>
> Anyone else agree?
>
It's a good point...If I'm not planning on making any money off the
project, do I have to get premission to use any of the material?
Anybody know?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 8
From: nocturnal@*******.NET
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:49:08 +0000
Davidson, Chris wrote:
>
> The one I'm writing is going to be free for at least the shadowrun side
> of it...my friends which are helping me, are forcing me to charge for
> the rest of it though...but I'm not charging anything more than 5 bucks
> a pop, with free upgrades. :)
>
> -=Toffer=-

Wordman is good with stuff like this.. plus, he has some kick ass sheets (yes, I'm trying
to
flatter you). Maybe you should take a stab at it, Wordman. I would try, but considering I
don't know a thing about programming..

Nocturnal
Message no. 9
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:16:34 -0400
Davidson, Chris wrote:
>
> I'm working on one myself right now, but it will include other rpg's as
> well...so far it's up to SR, Gurps, Rifts, and AD&D. It's not done yet,
> but well, on it's way. :) There is a piece of softare that I've beta
> tested for someone a while ago...but it didn't work...

Why are you writing one program that implements chargen rules for four
different games? Do you have a common user interface, a common database,
etc.? If so, are you finding that it saves development time? If not, or
if you aren't sharing components, what's the benefit in consolidating
them?

Just curious.. As a software consultant, I'm inherently nosy about these
things. >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 10
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:27:47 -0700
> > Oh really??? I think some people at FASA would be happy to know
> this
> little
> > tidbit...
> >
> > Anyone else agree?
>
> I very much agree... I take it you've already forwarded it to
> FASAMike?
>
So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for a
piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
work...without permission?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 11
From: Jason Cummings <CellSales9@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:28:55 EDT
As long as its freeware, you don't need anyones permission. (state in the
program that Shadowrun is a copyright of FASA and the programs is not meant to
infringe on those rights...)
Message no. 12
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:34:26 -0400
At 04:28 PM 9/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>As long as its freeware, you don't need anyones permission. (state in the
>program that Shadowrun is a copyright of FASA and the programs is not
meant to
>infringe on those rights...)

I'm taking a look at it right now, just out of curiosity. The problem is it
tells you on one of the other pages how to order it so it doesn't expire,
just like shareware. For $50 its expensive shareware too!

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!
Message no. 13
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:42:40 -0400
Davidson, Chris wrote:
>
> So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for a
> piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
> work...without permission?

Yep. The recent FASA cutbacks forced 'em to lay off hundreds of people
from the Ineffective Shareware Approval Department, and since then
everything's been downhill. >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 14
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:53:27 -0700
> Why are you writing one program that implements chargen rules for four
> different games? Do you have a common user interface, a common
> database,
> etc.? If so, are you finding that it saves development time? If not,
> or
> if you aren't sharing components, what's the benefit in consolidating
> them?
>
Answering the questions in order that you asked them....

A few reasons....I was bored....I got sick of flipping through countless
pages of gaming books to make cool characters...I wanted to see if I can
do it. :)

It is going to have a common user interface, because I'm going to try
and make it so I can translate a character from one system to the next.

It is going to have a common database where it's going to store all
characters you make...

I don't know if it's going to save time...I'm going to release the SR
side, as soon as it's done, and work on the rest. (the long tedious
task of getting all the equipment and weapons and stuff split up from
what books they came from is what's taking up all the time. Hehehe.)

> Just curious.. As a software consultant, I'm inherently nosy about
> these
> things. >8->
>
No problem...I like people who ask me questions.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 15
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:56:01 -0700
> As long as its freeware, you don't need anyones permission. (state in
> the
> program that Shadowrun is a copyright of FASA and the programs is not
> meant to
> infringe on those rights...)
>
If the Shadowrun side is always free, but the other nameless game
systems included don't get unlocked until registered....is it still
okay?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 16
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:57:31 -0700
> I'm taking a look at it right now, just out of curiosity. The problem
> is it
> tells you on one of the other pages how to order it so it doesn't
> expire,
> just like shareware. For $50 its expensive shareware too!
>
And it crashes a lot too.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 17
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:59:44 -0700
> > So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for
> a
> > piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
> > work...without permission?
>
> Yep. The recent FASA cutbacks forced 'em to lay off hundreds of
> people
> from the Ineffective Shareware Approval Department, and since then
> everything's been downhill. >8->
>
Good, I should be safe then, hehehe.

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 18
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:02:32 -0600
At 07:02 9/24/98 -0700, Patrick McCormick wrote
>There are several pieces of software you can use to
>create Shadowrun Characters, commonly called
>Character Generators, There's one Paolo makes it's a
>bit out of date and inaccesable at the moment

Paolo and I are working on a new one, which will be a Pocket Secretary '98
module. Should be out in.. hrm, I would say 6 weeks. At least, PS '98 1.5
should, not sure about the Chargen (It's more Paolo's baby..)

-Adam J
--
< TSS Productions down - New URL Soon! / adamj@*********.html.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 19
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:04:49 -0600
At 12:37 9/24/98 -0700, Davidson, Chris wrote

>It's a good point...If I'm not planning on making any money off the
>project, do I have to get premission to use any of the material?
>Anybody know?

If you use FASA published material, yes. They basically told me that once
I was finished PS '98 I was to let them know so they can check it out, and
I willingly provided guarantees that people can't just open the database
and print out all the FASA spells, or print them all directly from the
program, etc.

-Adam J
--
< TSS Productions down - New URL Soon! / adamj@*********.html.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 20
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:25:14 -0700
> >It's a good point...If I'm not planning on making any money off the
> >project, do I have to get premission to use any of the material?
> >Anybody know?
>
> If you use FASA published material, yes. They basically told me that
> once
> I was finished PS '98 I was to let them know so they can check it out,
> and
> I willingly provided guarantees that people can't just open the
> database
> and print out all the FASA spells, or print them all directly from the
> program, etc.
>
So who do I contact to get permission?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 21
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:28:31 -0500
"Davidson, Chris" wrote:

> So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for a
> piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
> work...without permission?

Oh, not exactly... It works (sort of -- when it doesn't crash), but
you can try it for something like 30 days before buying it... On the
other hand, while it's a very *nice* program when it's actually
working, I can't see paying 50 bucks for a *beta* and one update of it
-- I can't even see paying 50 dollars, period for it: a character
generator just isn't worth that much to me (no matter *how* nice it
is). As a college student, I am quite sure I can find better (more
cost-effective, if not more constructive) ways to spend $50. But
that's just me:)

Of course, I haven't even looked at the program since last fall, so it
may have improved quite a bit since then...

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
Sergeant-at-Arms and Greatest Swordsman of the Frinch Army
Message no. 22
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:33:15 -0400
On 24 Sep 98, at 14:25, Davidson, Chris wrote:

> So who do I contact to get permission?

FASAInfo@***.com

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - |"Letter writing is the only
- drekhead@***.net - | device for combining
HTML to: drekhead@********.net | solitude and good company."
ICQ - UIN 2883757 | -Lord Byron
Message no. 23
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:00:34 -0700
> > So who do I contact to get permission?
>
> FASAInfo@***.com
>
Thanks for the help. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 24
From: Patrick McCormick <furyfrog1@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:46:02 -0700
I personally wouldn't pay for it, and I don't think
anyone else would either, it has nice features, but
it crashes every fuve minutes.
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 25
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:42:02 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:56 PM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> As long as its freeware, you don't need anyones permission.
<<Snip>>
>If the Shadowrun side is always free, but the other nameless game
>systems included don't get unlocked until registered....is it still
>okay?

It'll probably be ok with FASA (unless one of those other nameless
game systems is BattleTech/MechWarrior, or Earthdawn), but it most
likely _WILL_NOT_ be ok with the Game Companies who hold the
Copyrights to the other nameless game systems.

I'd say that with nearly the entire RPG industry, any Game Company
would take exception to someone charging money for any sort of "GM's
Helper" software without getting express written permission from the
company's legal department first.

An RPG's system of rules is the intelectual property of the Game
Company that developed it. Companies usually do not like it when
unrelated third parties attempt to make money by putting out
derivitive works based off of the intelectual propterty the company
has invested it's resources into creating.

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 26
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:46:31 EDT
In a message dated 9/24/1998 3:30:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM writes:

> > > Anyone else agree?
> >
> > I very much agree... I take it you've already forwarded it to
> > FASAMike?
> >
> So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for a
> piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
> work...without permission?
>
It is very unlikely. I do hope that Mike will let me (as yes Nexx, I did
forward it) know one way or the other.

Not to sound like we are "the FASA Police", but I would say most of us on this
mailing list at least try and remain as clear-cut on certain levels of tact
and general law where FASA itself is concerned.

I also made certain to point out in the message I forwarded to Mike M. that
the information we had was a measure of heresay, and included the URL and
whatnot in it so he, Jordan, Jill, Rett or whomever else decides to look into
it can do so quickly enough.

-K
Message no. 27
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:19:56 -0400
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, K in the Shadows wrote:

->Not to sound like we are "the FASA Police", but I would say most of us on
this
->mailing list at least try and remain as clear-cut on certain levels of tact
->and general law where FASA itself is concerned.

<whistle blowing>
<Big husky voice w/ a badge> Ok son, I have here you have violated
the rules for initiative twice, the rules on Karma expendature once, and
the laws of nature several times. I'm afraid you're gonna have to come
downtown and explain yourself, son. Oh, and you might want to get dressed
too, the hookers have been kinda agressive lately. </voice>

->I also made certain to point out in the message I forwarded to Mike M. that
->the information we had was a measure of heresay, and included the URL and
->whatnot in it so he, Jordan, Jill, Rett or whomever else decides to look into
->it can do so quickly enough.

Damn, do you guys know everyone at FASA or something? I have only
heard of Steve and Mike.... got a Email from Mike once... that's about it.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 28
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:20:23 -0700
If you can get the little bugger to d/l at all, which it wouldn't do for
me last night...maybe it needs to be a lunar eclipse out or something?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 29
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:38:21 -0700
> An RPG's system of rules is the intelectual property of the Game
> Company that developed it. Companies usually do not like it when
> unrelated third parties attempt to make money by putting out
> derivitive works based off of the intelectual propterty the company
> has invested it's resources into creating.
>
If it was left entirely up to me...I probably wouldn't charge anything
for it...but the other developers, kinda would like to see
something...maybe I'll try and talk them into doing this one for free as
a example of our work... Hmmm. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 30
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:13:13 -0700
> Not to sound like we are "the FASA Police", but I would say most of us
> on this
> mailing list at least try and remain as clear-cut on certain levels of
> tact
> and general law where FASA itself is concerned.
>
> I also made certain to point out in the message I forwarded to Mike M.
> that
> the information we had was a measure of heresay, and included the URL
> and
> whatnot in it so he, Jordan, Jill, Rett or whomever else decides to
> look into
> it can do so quickly enough.
>
Well, I think they author of the software is hokey, because a) his
software is buggy, and b) wants to charge $50 for registration on 1
major upgrade...

when mines done...my partners want me to charge, but it'll be like 5
bucks with free upgrades forever. Unless, of course, FASA doesn't give
me permission, then...aw sucks...I'd just have to give it away for
free....wouldn't that just chap that hartmann guys hide? :) $50...$5
which would you pick if you had to?

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 31
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:09:26 -0700
---"Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM> wrote:
> If it was left entirely up to me...I probably wouldn't charge anything
> for it...but the other developers, kinda would like to see
> something...maybe I'll try and talk them into doing this one for
free as
> a example of our work... Hmmm. :)
>
> -=Toffer=-
>


I don't think you get the point. If you charge for this you can be
sued. Even if you don't charge for it, you probably have to have
permission from Fasa just to distribute it.



==
AdamL

"The good die first."
"But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 32
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:44:32 -0700
:An RPG's system of rules is the intelectual property of the Game
:Company that developed it.

Actually, that is dead wrong; a sytem of rules can NOT be covered by a
copyright. Some concepts can be covered by patent (as WoTC has
attempted), but you could write a game that used the same combat rules as
SR, and as long as your text was not plageristic, be completey fine,
legally (nothin in the SR sytem is patented- you would not be able to
patent rolling a handful of dice). It would be hard not to plagerise, but
look how many games use really similar sytems; they ARE derivative, and
that's not grounds for a lawsuit.

: Companies usually do not like it when
:unrelated third parties attempt to make money by putting out
:derivitive works based off of the intelectual propterty the company
:has invested it's resources into creating.

The intllectual property, in this case, being the name of the game
itself (can't use that without permision, technically, except in "fair
use", like when reviewing a product), copwrited text that might be
plagerized, and specific protected game terms (things like "matrix" and
"Dunkelzahn"), and maybe names for pieces of cyberware and such.

AFAIK, Legally, the problem is NOT making a "6 Statistic Freelance
Future Criminal type Character Generator (with options for spells and
cyberware)"- it is in calling it a "Shadowrun Character Generator (with
options for manabolt and wired reflexes)".

Mongoose
Message no. 33
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:41:45 -0400
Davidson, Chris wrote:
>
>....wouldn't that just chap that hartmann guys hide? :) $50...$5
> which would you pick if you had to?

The free one.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 34
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:24:50 -0400
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At 07:38 AM 9/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> An RPG's system of rules is the intelectual property of the Game
>> Company that developed it. Companies usually do not like it when
>> unrelated third parties attempt to make money by putting out
>> derivitive works based off of the intelectual propterty the company
>> has invested it's resources into creating.
>>
>If it was left entirely up to me...I probably wouldn't charge
anything
>for it...but the other developers, kinda would like to see
>something...maybe I'll try and talk them into doing this one for free
as
>a example of our work... Hmmm. :)

Why don't you contact the various Game Companies, and try to get
permission for this? That would change your status from being an
"unrelated third party" to having established a relationship and
recieving permission (assuming they grant permission, which I think is
likely).

After all, FASA did work out a deal with a group of programmers called
FMS Techniques, when those programmers had come up with a program that
creates customized Mech Record Sheets for BattleTech.
(In fact, FASA liked the program so much, they started using it
themselves.)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 35
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:44:42 -0700
> > If it was left entirely up to me...I probably wouldn't charge
> anything
> > for it...but the other developers, kinda would like to see
> > something...maybe I'll try and talk them into doing this one for
> free as
> > a example of our work... Hmmm. :)
> >
> > -=Toffer=-
> >
>
>
> I don't think you get the point. If you charge for this you can be
> sued. Even if you don't charge for it, you probably have to have
> permission from Fasa just to distribute it.
>
I get the point dude...just that there's two versions of it. Some
people say that as long as I don't charge for it, there's no
problem...some say that I have to get permission no matter what...I'm
going to be e-mail FASA and asking them, and posting what they have to
tell me...I'm not that stupid...shesh!

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 36
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:49:09 -0700
> The intllectual property, in this case, being the name of the game
> itself (can't use that without permision, technically, except in "fair
> use", like when reviewing a product), copwrited text that might be
> plagerized, and specific protected game terms (things like "matrix"
> and
> "Dunkelzahn"), and maybe names for pieces of cyberware and such.
>
This is starting to sound to political to me...all I'm doing it for is
to see if I can do it...just for the fun of it...guess maybe I should
just keep it to myself and avoid all this legal crap. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 37
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:11:54 -0700
> Why don't you contact the various Game Companies, and try to get
> permission for this? That would change your status from being an
> "unrelated third party" to having established a relationship and
> recieving permission (assuming they grant permission, which I think is
> likely).
>
Actually before I release anything I fully intend to. I'm to paranoid
of paying fines and fees up the wazoo to not get their permission...but
with the feedback I've been getting...I'm almost tempted to just forget
about releasing it, and just do it for myself...sounds safer that way.
Doesn't sound like there's too many people interested in the idea
anyway. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 38
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:37:56 EDT
In a message dated 9/25/98 12:48:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM writes:

> I get the point dude...just that there's two versions of it. Some
> people say that as long as I don't charge for it, there's no
> problem...some say that I have to get permission no matter what.

I would also get the advice of a good lawyer as well.

-Bandit
Message no. 39
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:14:53 -0700
> > I get the point dude...just that there's two versions of it. Some
> > people say that as long as I don't charge for it, there's no
> > problem...some say that I have to get permission no matter what.
>
> I would also get the advice of a good lawyer as well.
>
Ugh! Lawyers, copyright infringment...politics!!!! I hate em' all!
Why can't everything be copyleft, like Linux is. :)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 40
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:12:21 -0500
"Davidson, Chris" wrote:

> Ugh! Lawyers, copyright infringment...politics!!!! I hate em' all!
> Why can't everything be copyleft, like Linux is. :)

Hey! There's an idea: GRPG (GNU Role Playing Game, of course:)
'Course, there are already lots of free RPGs (FUDGE, for instance)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
Sergeant-at-Arms and Greatest Swordsman of the Frinch Army
Message no. 41
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:13:15 EDT
In a message dated 9/25/1998 8:11:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> <whistle blowing>
> Ok son, I have here you have violated
> the rules for initiative twice, the rules on Karma expendature once, and
> the laws of nature several times. I'm afraid you're gonna have to come
> downtown and explain yourself, son. Oh, and you might want to get dressed
> too, the hookers have been kinda agressive lately. </voice>


<Voice of Pleading Bum(tm)>
"But occifer, they were paranatural-thingy laws only, and I stole that karma
from the free spirit fare and stare ... hookers? You have hookers? (hikes up
pants at this point)"
</Voice of Pleading Bum(tm)>

And no, we don't know everybody, we just met a lot of them. Tons of cool
folks they were... :)

-K
Message no. 42
From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:08:24 -0700
> > Ugh! Lawyers, copyright infringment...politics!!!! I hate em' all!
> > Why can't everything be copyleft, like Linux is. :)
>
> Hey! There's an idea: GRPG (GNU Role Playing Game, of course:)
> 'Course, there are already lots of free RPGs (FUDGE, for instance)
>
I've never heard of FUDGE...what is it? (aside from the tasty treat.
hehehe)

-=Toffer=-
Message no. 43
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:40:37 -0500
"Davidson, Chris" wrote:
> I've never heard of FUDGE...what is it? (aside from the tasty treat.
> hehehe)

FUDGE - Freeform, Universal, Do Gaming Engine. FUDGE contains some
basic and generic rules systems (combat, sample magic, psionics and
superpowers rules), with some guidelines on using the system. It's
really flexible, but using FUDGE for a game would require some work on
the GM's part (you'll need to determine *which* attributes, skills,
etc. are available, etc.). Pretty much a bare-bones system and was
created/is maintained by Stefan O'Sullivan. You can download a copy of
the rules at
http://members.iquest.net/~ericg/games/
or you can purchase them from (I think) Crunchy Frog Enterprises...
but I'm not sure where their website is (it's on AOL, though).

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble." --Albert Einstein
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
Sergeant-at-Arms and Greatest Swordsman of the Frinch Army
Message no. 44
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:11:05 EDT
In a message dated 9/29/98 10:38:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:

> or you can purchase them from (I think) Crunchy Frog Enterprises...
> but I'm not sure where their website is (it's on AOL, though).

Crunchy FRog can be found at http://members.aol.com/froggod/
Message no. 45
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:51:58 PDT
>From: "Davidson, Chris" <Christopher.Davidson@***.BOEING.COM>
>Subject: Re: Charaktercreation-Software
>> I very much agree... I take it you've already forwarded it to
>> FASAMike?
>So you mean to tell me that guys been getting away with charging for a
>piece of software using Shadowrun stuff...that doesn't even
>work...without permission?

Well, to answer both questions:

1) Yes, he has..

2) It DOES work, but his installation leaves much to be desired.. It
will NOT work with the standard install.. You need to run a bunch of
batch files that you shouldn;t need to, and make some setting changes
manually..


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


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