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Message no. 1
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 01:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
Okay, police-boys...:)

Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
are they the same thing essentially? Or what?

Help! :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 10:57:00 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 1:24 on 5 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> are they the same thing essentially? Or what?

Isn't that accessory to the crime, because you're essentially helping the
person who committed the crime? At least, I think that's what cops in TV
shows usually tell people they suspect of lying to them :)

--
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Message no. 3
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:02:41 -0500
From: "Rand Ratinac" <docwagon101@*****.com>
Subject: Charges


> Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> are they the same thing essentially? Or what?


Effectively, they are the same but can be treated seperately I *think*.
Obstruction of Justice is often more than enough to get the ball rolling,
and then the authorities can, or so it seems sometimes, just start making
stuff up as they go along.

If they have been read their rights, and then lie, they will be held for
Misrepresentation at a later point as well most likely. May not be a major
thing, but it's kind of like obstruction. Once they get their foot inside
the judicial door...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Winstar Tech Support and Provisioning (www.winstar.com)
Message no. 4
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:07:30 -0500
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Charges


> > Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> > cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> > of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> > are they the same thing essentially? Or what?
>
> Isn't that accessory to the crime, because you're essentially helping the
> person who committed the crime? At least, I think that's what cops in TV
> shows usually tell people they suspect of lying to them :)

Hmmm ... forgot about being labeled an Accessory to the Crime. Yeah, that
can be done, but its harder to label with as you actually HAVE to be part of
the crime to do so last I knew.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Winstar Tech Support and Provisioning (www.winstar.com)
Message no. 5
From: danzig138 d138@*****.net
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 04:22:02 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rand Ratinac" <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 3:24 AM
Subject: Charges


> Okay, police-boys...:)
>
> Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> are they the same thing essentially? Or what?
>
Just as a guess, I'd say Obstruction of Justice, Interfering in a Criminal
Investigation
(I think they can be pushed as separate charges), also possibly Accessory
(maybe After the Fact),
and Conspiracy (if they try real hard, depending on the nature of the
crime).
danzig138
Message no. 6
From: paul collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:38:54 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Charges


> Okay, police-boys...:)
>
> Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> are they the same thing essentially? Or what?
>
> Help! :)
>

Obstruction is the one that comes to mind, although remember, it's likely to
vary slightly from state to state, and from state to federal.

There's also falsifying evidence, bearing false witness, misrepresentation,
all variations on a theme I suppose.
Then there's the classic, say, you look like someone we want to tralk to
reguarding <<insert unsolved crime here>>. Why don't you come down to the
station.

Hey Rand, have you ever considered watching those American cop shows. The
Practice, or Law and Order, or the like?

Annachie




The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with Hail Satan
---Bart's Blackboard
Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > Another question - if someone's lying to the cops
to cover up for a friend, what's the charge?
Obstruction of justice, or interfering with an
investigation? Or are they the same thing essentially?
Or what?
>
> Isn't that accessory to the crime, because you're
essentially helping the person who committed the
crime? At least, I think that's what cops in TV shows
usually tell people they suspect of lying to them :)
> Gurth@******.nl -

That'd actually be accessory after the fact, if I'm
not mistaken.

However, I should've been clearer before. The friend
who's being covered up for is a reluctant (SINless)
witness. She doesn't want to talk to the cops, but
they want to talk to her. She hasn't actually DONE
anything wrong, but if the guy lies about where she
is, he IS hindering the police.

So, with that background, what's the charge? And/or
what would the police most likely say to the guy in
order to convince him to be cooperative (i.e. are the
lawyers the only ones who say "obstruction of
justice", while the cops would say "impeding a police
investigation" or something similar?)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 8
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Just as a guess, I'd say Obstruction of Justice,
Interfering in a Criminal Investigation (I think they
can be pushed as separate charges), also possibly
Accessory (maybe After the Fact), and Conspiracy (if
they try real hard, depending on the nature of the
crime).
> danzig138

Thanks, Danzig

Well, with my elaborations (sorry about that -
should've made the situation plain yesterday, but I'm
always so freakin' rushed these days), the only two in
the above list that'd be applicable would be
obstruction of justice and interfering with a criminal
investigation (that's the phrase!). Is there any real
difference between the two? And which would cops be
more likely to threaten our boy with?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 9
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 18:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
> Obstruction is the one that comes to mind, although
remember, it's likely to vary slightly from state to
state, and from state to federal.

Seattle Metroplex jurisdiction, which I suppose would
be considered state in 2061.

> There's also falsifying evidence, bearing false
witness, misrepresentation, all variations on a theme
I suppose. Then there's the classic, say, you look
like someone we want to tralk to reguarding <<insert
unsolved crime here>>. Why don't you come down to the
station.

Well, as I've elaborated, the guy isn't actually
covering for a criminal, but a witness. They don't
want to arrest him - they just want to confirm that
the witness is present (inside a building) and get in
there.

> Hey Rand, have you ever considered watching those
American cop shows. The Practice, or Law and Order,
or the like?
> Annachie

I watch Law and Order, but I never really paid
attention to the jargon. :) This is my first story
with cops in it. AFAIR, I've never seen a situation
like this one come up on LaO - or NYPD Blue for that
matter - or Nash Bridges (Naaaaaaash...:) ).

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 10
From: acjpenn@******.com acjpenn@******.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:51:23 -0500
> Okay, police-boys...:)
>
I'm no police boy, but I think I can at least give a partial answer..

> Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> are they the same thing essentially? Or what?
>
> Help! :)
>

If the friend is being charged with a crime, that's obstruction ( I think )
and Aiding and Abetting a known fellon, or maybe just Aiding and Abetting.

Tig Da Pig
Message no. 11
From: Brian Johnson expatrie@*******.net
Subject: Charges
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 14:37:58 -0500
NeoJudas wrote:

> From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
> Subject: Re: Charges
>
> > > Another question - if someone's lying to the cops to
> > > cover up for a friend, what's the charge? Obstruction
> > > of justice, or interfering with an investigation? Or
> > > are they the same thing essentially? Or what?
> >
> > Isn't that accessory to the crime, because you're essentially helping the
> > person who committed the crime? At least, I think that's what cops in TV
> > shows usually tell people they suspect of lying to them :)
>
> Hmmm ... forgot about being labeled an Accessory to the Crime. Yeah, that
> can be done, but its harder to label with as you actually HAVE to be part of
> the crime to do so last I knew.
>

Not in the states. Accessory after the fact (helping hide the bodies, false
alibis, testimony, etc. etc.). Accessory is lesser charge to Accomplice or
Conspiracy to commit (crime here). Thus, Accessory is easier to fit someone onto
the charge, while others are more difficult (I'd guess evidentiary standards are
higher).

Not a lawyer here.




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Message no. 12
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:08:16 -0500
:However, I should've been clearer before. The friend
:who's being covered up for is a reluctant (SINless)
:witness. She doesn't want to talk to the cops, but
:they want to talk to her. She hasn't actually DONE
:anything wrong, but if the guy lies about where she
:is, he IS hindering the police.

That is most likely "obstruction of justice". "Interfering with an
investigation" probably calls for more active interference, like destruction
of evidence. It depends on the exact wordings of the local laws, though.

:So, with that background, what's the charge? And/or
:what would the police most likely say to the guy in
:order to convince him to be cooperative (i.e. are the
:lawyers the only ones who say "obstruction of
:justice", while the cops would say "impeding a police
:investigation" or something similar?)
:
:====:Doc'

My guess is the cops would use a soft touch, trying to convince him its
in his friends best intrest, or at least geting him to talk enough that he
lets something slip. Police questioning depends more on simple psycology,
not legal manueverings- legal dealings and threats are more the DA's job.
They might mention how life for him could be difficult if they have to get a
warrant and search his place for clues as to the friends locations (at
least, the guys on TV do that). Charging him for what he believes is
protecting his friend is just gonna make the situation adversarial, and
probably result in him deciding "never to say nothing to nobody".

Seb


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Message no. 13
From: danzig138 d138@*****.net
Subject: Charges
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 04:15:24 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sebastian Wiers" <m0ng005e@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Charges
> My guess is the cops would use a soft touch, trying to convince him
its
> in his friends best intrest, or at least geting him to talk enough that he
> lets something slip. Police questioning depends more on simple psycology,
> not legal manueverings- legal dealings and threats are more the DA's job.
> They might mention how life for him could be difficult if they have to get
a
> warrant and search his place for clues as to the friends locations (at
> least, the guys on TV do that). Charging him for what he believes is
> protecting his friend is just gonna make the situation adversarial, and
> probably result in him deciding "never to say nothing to nobody".
>
> Seb

This would depend on the officer in charge, and how much he supervises those
below him. A smart, or less buttheadish cop might take the softer approach,
but
there are an awful lot who take the hard-ass route. I would think that they
would
Mutt and Jeff him myself. He'd probably end cooperating with the nice cop.
danzig138
Message no. 14
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 02:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
> :So, with that background, what's the charge? And/or
what would the police most likely say to the guy in
order to convince him to be cooperative (i.e. are the
lawyers the only ones who say "obstruction of
justice", while the cops would say "impeding a police
investigation" or something similar?)
>
> My guess is the cops would use a soft touch,
trying to convince him its in his friends best
intrest, or at least geting him to talk enough that he
lets something slip. Police questioning depends more
on simple psycology, not legal manueverings- legal
dealings and threats are more the DA's job. They might
mention how life for him could be difficult if they
have to get a warrant and search his place for clues
as to the friends locations (at least, the guys on TV
do that). Charging him for what he believes is
protecting his friend is just gonna make the situation
adversarial, and probably result in him deciding
"never to say nothing to nobody".
> Seb

Oh, I know that. I've already got them doing the good
cop/bad cop thing ("We just want to talk to your
friend - and help her!" "Yeah, so tell us where she
is, or you'll get in trouble.") Kinda. :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 15
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Charges
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
> My guess is the cops would use a soft touch, trying
to convince him its in his friends best intrest, or at
least geting him to talk enough that he lets something
slip. Police questioning depends more on simple
psycology, not legal manueverings- legal dealings and
threats are more the DA's job. <snip>

I was just in a Jury for a murder trial in Michigan
(USA) and 2 of the witnesses were given lighter
sentances in other cases and immunity from this case
for tellling the truth about what they knew. The
stipulation was that if they didn't tell the truth in
the trail that I was jury on, they would get their
full sentances. This was all done by the DA.


====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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