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Message no. 1
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:48:00 -0700
Just saw "The Relic" last night and the movie took place in Chicago, and
a great deal of it was set in a series of tunnels under the city called
"The Old Coal Tunnels." The tunnels were supposed used at some time in
the past to connect various important buildings with the coal barges. It
appeared that the tunnels had rail lines of some kind that would run down
to the harbor and pick up the coal from the barges.

Is this something they made up for the movie or is it real? Seems it
could be important for games set in the Chicago Containment Zone. Is
this news, or is it described in Bug City and I just forgot?


Buck
(Mike Buckalew)
Test Manager
FileMaker Pro
buck@******.com

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Message no. 2
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels -Reply
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:56:43 -0500
Yup, those tunnels still exist. They are what flooded and caused immense
damage to Chicago a year or two ago.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 3
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:54:35 -0800
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Mike Buckalew wrote:

# Is this something they made up for the movie or is it real? Seems it
# could be important for games set in the Chicago Containment Zone. Is
# this news, or is it described in Bug City and I just forgot?

What about "The Chicago Underground"? I saw it mentioned in a
couple of fiction books I read recently. Supposedly, it's a limited
version of downtown streets below the actual streets for truck deliveries
only.... Does this exist?

The Spaceman |You are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
spaced@*.washington.edu |That is enough.
Check out the Bill Page! | -The Player
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
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MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 4
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:21:59 -0600
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Mike Buckalew wrote:
> Just saw "The Relic" last night and the movie took place in Chicago, and
> a great deal of it was set in a series of tunnels under the city called
> "The Old Coal Tunnels." The tunnels were supposed used at some time in
> the past to connect various important buildings with the coal barges. It
> appeared that the tunnels had rail lines of some kind that would run down
> to the harbor and pick up the coal from the barges.
>
> Is this something they made up for the movie or is it real? Seems it
> could be important for games set in the Chicago Containment Zone. Is
> this news, or is it described in Bug City and I just forgot?

Actually, now that you mention it.... A few years back a lot of downtown
buildings got flooded, guess how.:) That's right, the old coal tunnels
flooded, and spilled into the basements of some buildings. As I remeber
they did quite a bit of damage. I live in NC Illinois, but does anyone
else around me remeber that?
SO, yeah, they exist. What's down there now. :) Well, I'd guess
beetles. They tend to hang out in subways. Would be a real interesting
way to get in though. Except maybe, can't remeber but after the
flooding, they might have filled them up. Anyone else?

-Court



/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Someday mother will die and I'll get the money
Mom leans down and says, "My sentiments exactly,
you son of a bitch"
I palindrome I
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 5
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 03:50:54 -0600
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:54 PM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Mike Buckalew wrote:
> What about "The Chicago Underground"? I saw it mentioned in a
>couple of fiction books I read recently. Supposedly, it's a limited
>version of downtown streets below the actual streets for truck deliveries
>only.... Does this exist?
They aren't as interesting as they sound. It's just a small area a couple of
blocks long and wide where the ground level on one side of the river is higher
than the other, so there is an extra level of roads on the lower side which
return to normal after a few blocks. They aren't underground, instead the
street level is elevated. If you remember the scene in the Fugitive where
Harrison Ford meets his "friend" in the car and he gets some money, that was
filmed in the "Chicago Underground". The Coal tunnels are much more
interesting, and Shadorunnish.

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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:37:00 +0000
|SO, yeah, they exist. What's down there now. :) Well, I'd guess
|beetles. They tend to hang out in subways. Would be a real interesting
|way to get in though. Except maybe, can't remeber but after the
|flooding, they might have filled them up. Anyone else?

If there are bettles down there, then no, I wouldn't want to go down
there....

I'd prefer to remain human, thank you very much....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:23:08 -0600
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Mike Buckalew wrote:
> # Is this something they made up for the movie or is it real? Seems it
> # could be important for games set in the Chicago Containment Zone. Is
> # this news, or is it described in Bug City and I just forgot?

The tunnels are very real and they werent just used for coal but
for all sorts of freight deliveries amoung buildings down towns so that
the delivery trucks wouldnt tie up the roads/ruin the posh amiance of your
nice new expensive hotel ect. If I recal correctly they date back to the
20's or so aand i dont think they have been realy used since the 30s or
40's. Correction they are used a lot these days to run phone and data
cables in. nice BIG conduit:).

As someone else will probaly mention the tunnels came up in the
news around a few years ago when they had a little accident driving
pilings in the river. seems the barge drifted a little and a pile went
right through the roof of one of the tunnels flooding it and any tunnels
connected to it. number of buildings had their basments flood through the
old tunnel connections loosing power and or phone connections and just
plain general mess. Took them a couple of days but they got the tunnel
plugged and the water drained out. Since then they installed water tight
steel bulkheads across all the tunnels where ever they cross under teh
river (ie one on each bank) The bulkheads do have watter tight hatches in
them to premit inspection of the tunnels for leaks et al. hmmmm i wonder
what the runners will thing when they run into one of he bulkheads while
trying to use the tunnel to escape from whatever is chasing them:).


> What about "The Chicago Underground"? I saw it mentioned in a
> couple of fiction books I read recently. Supposedly, it's a limited
> version of downtown streets below the actual streets for truck deliveries
> only.... Does this exist?

well a number of streets in downtown neear the river do have 2
levels but not that many and none for more than a few blocks. IIRC it is
because part of downtown is built uopon marsh so the ground level was a
lot lower than in most of the rest of town. They decided to make street
level more or less uniform and put in elevated streets instead of
thousands of tones of fill, might as well put in a lowerlevel street while
your at it and lower congestion to:). the streets arnt for trucks only
but trucks do make up a larger portion of the traffic. I mean if you can
get the "big uglie semi-truck" pull up at eather the semi hiddent basiment
or your posh lobby what would you prefer:). There are also some
unerground parking garages under some of the parks along the lake shore
though i have to admit in my 20 years in chicago i have never been in them
probaly because i always take the train in from the suburbs. aslong as im
think of parking garages a lot of the biger building have privet parking
garages built into the top few substreetlevels.

sorry for the horrid spelling/typoing. the telnet lag to my email account
is horrendous today. *sigh*

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 8
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:00:54 -0500
In a message dated 1/20/97 09:52:05 PM, Mike wrote:

>Just saw "The Relic" last night and the movie took place in Chicago, and
>a great deal of it was set in a series of tunnels under the city called
>"The Old Coal Tunnels." The tunnels were supposed used at some time in
>the past to connect various important buildings with the coal barges. It
>appeared that the tunnels had rail lines of some kind that would run down
>to the harbor and pick up the coal from the barges.
>
>Is this something they made up for the movie or is it real? Seems it
>could be important for games set in the Chicago Containment Zone. Is
>this news, or is it described in Bug City and I just forgot?

They are real. I had an uncle that drove one of the coal trains. When Chicago
was rebuilt after the fire it wasn't built for automobile traffic. In fact,
trucks were banned from many of the main downtown streets until the 70s.
Since Chicago is (or was) one of the main railroad hubs in the world, the
goal was to get stuff from the big railroad hub (south of the Cermak blast
for those non-natives) to the downtown area. The coal trains were modified to
ship all goods downtown. I worked in a building on Wabash Ave. (the heart of
"The loop") that still had it's underground loading dock and it's caol train
enterance. Also, if anyone remembers the Chicago Flood...aprox 1992, when a
worker broke through a wall and released the Chicago river into the coal
tunnels, flooding most of the downtown buildings. Since now most of the coal
tunnels hold the power and telecommunications lines the flood paralyzed many
of the those buildings and left the city nearly empty. I believe depending on
the location some of the older buildings have up to 5 sub-basements with 2 at
least connectioning to the coal tunnels.

Hey it was built on swamp.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Windy City Native!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 9
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:19:52 +0000
> Hey it was built on swamp.

And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
built another city and that one stood.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 10
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:08:39 -0500
At 05:19 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> Hey it was built on swamp.
>
>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
>built another city and that one stood.
>
AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!

Bull-the-ork-decekr-who-owns-the-holy-grail
--
Bull-the-cuddley-Kojack-imitating-Star-Wars-lovin'-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 2 weeks till Star Wars!
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:01:00 +0000
|
|At 05:19 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
|>> Hey it was built on swamp.
|>
|>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
|>built another city and that one stood.
|>
|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!

It is? Must be an obscure one then...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:20:08 -0500
Spike wrote (after other people),
>|>> Hey it was built on swamp.
>|>
>|>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
>|>built another city and that one stood.
>|>
>|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
>
>It is? Must be an obscure one then...

Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail.

"Stop that singing! There will be no singing."




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 13
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:01:32 -0600
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, MC23 wrote:

> Spike wrote (after other people),
> >|>> Hey it was built on swamp.
> >|>
> >|>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
> >|>built another city and that one stood.
> >|>
> >|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
> >
> >It is? Must be an obscure one then...
>
> Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail.
>
> "Stop that singing! There will be no singing."

"...And she has huge...tracts of land."

Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Darkside of the Moon
czregbrt@*********.edu
Message no. 14
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:40:04 -0500
At 01:01 PM 1/25/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|
>|At 05:19 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|>> Hey it was built on swamp.
>|>
>|>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
>|>built another city and that one stood.
>|>
>|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
>
>It is? Must be an obscure one then...
>
Remember the one scene with the little pansy boy that his fatehr is forcing
to marry. And he explains that their castle is built on a swamp? and it
sank into the swamp, then burned down, etc. And tehy just kept building
iver it?

<sigh>

The jokes lose their humor when ya gotta explain them...:):):)

Bull
--
Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 1 week till Star Wars!
Message no. 15
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:44:34 -0500
SH>>|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
SH>>
SH>> t is? Must be an obscure one then...

SH>Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail.

SH>"Stop that singing! There will be no singing."

"But mother...!"
"Father, I'm Father."

cyberpusnk
SPACE COAST Online 407-773-1042 Telnet Spacecst.net WWW - http://Spacecst.net
Message no. 16
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:49:52 -0500
SH>Remember the one scene with the little pansy boy that his fatehr is forcing
SH>to marry. And he explains that their castle is built on a swamp? and it
SH>sank into the swamp, then burned down, etc. And tehy just kept building
SH>iver it?

SH><sigh>

SH>The jokes lose their humor when ya gotta explain them...:):):)

SH>Bull
SH>--
SH>Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

"One day son, alll this will be yours..."
"What the curtains?"
(thwap) "No not the curtains... All that you can seee..."

do we stop now?
cyberpsunk
SPACE COAST Online 407-773-1042 Telnet Spacecst.net WWW - http://Spacecst.net
Message no. 17
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:13:07 EST
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:01:00 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|
>|At 05:19 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|>> Hey it was built on swamp.
>|>
>|>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
>|>built another city and that one stood.
>|>
>|AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
>
>It is? Must be an obscure one then...
>--

Nope! Same scene (or rather same set of scenes) as:
"She's got HUUUGE....tracts of laand"

~Tim
Message no. 18
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 02:15:54 +0000
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels

> |>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
> |>built another city and that one stood.
> |>
> |AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
>
> It is? Must be an obscure one then...

There is no such thing as an obscure reference from that movie.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:40:35 +0100
Spike said on 13:01/25 Jan 97...

> |>> Hey it was built on swamp.
> |>
> |>And it burned down, fell over and sunk into the swamp....so they
> |>built another city and that one stood.
> |>
> |AHHHHHH! It's a Monty Python reference! Run!
>
> It is? Must be an obscure one then...

Have you never watched MP & the Holy Grail? The castle that Lancelot
storms all by himself (where they're having the wedding) was built on a
swamp, on top of three or four other castles that all sank into it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You may have already won!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Chicago's Old Coal Tunnels
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:53:49 +0000
|Have you never watched MP & the Holy Grail? The castle that Lancelot
|storms all by himself (where they're having the wedding) was built on a
|swamp, on top of three or four other castles that all sank into it.

It *IS* several years since I saw it all the way through.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further Reading

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