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Message no. 1
From: Demosthenes Three <demosthenes_3@*****.COM>
Subject: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:35:54 -0700
Wow.
I never expected that the list would react so strongly to a silly
little idea like that! :)

First off, thanks to those who gave me well thought out advice -
whether I agree with it or not.

I've re-read the appropriate sections of the Grimoire, Awakenings,
Corp. Sec. and checked the whole FAT BAC/FAB BAT deal in the logs, and
I think I've come up with a new version of the Chunk Launcher that
might be better.

CHUNK LAUNCHER V. 2.0
It's no longer cyberware - now it's simply an attached weapon, similar
to the Forearm Snap Blades. The reason I tried cyber first was to make
it more of a hold out weapon.
The CL's aiming mechanism is strapped solidly to the users forearm, it
is then connected to a small, but powerful pump, that mounts on the
users belt, and rides just above the user's buttocks. The pump is
connected to the aiming mechanism via heavy duty surgical tubing.
When activated by muscular triggers in the forearm, the CL's powerful,
compact surgical scoop (I need a better word for what is basically an
automated scalpel:)) which removes several grams of fat from the
users' buttocks.
That tissue is then rapidly moved into a pressurized container, and
then upon acheiving sufficient pressure - fired through the tube, and
from the aiming mechanism.
Dmage done to physical targets is near minimal. (Maybe 3L?) however
the messy tissue can easily blind if placed in the eyes. Nose and
mouth shots would also be unpleasant (unless you normally eat human
tissue ala. ghouls.:))
Against astral tragets, there is NO damage, however, (depending on how
you work it in your game :)) the target can be knocked back by the
impact. Also, the displacement of the tissue, body fluids, and blood
can serve to "outline" the astral target, allowing other attackers to
better aim FAB weapons, or other containment devices at the target.

There. Better now?:)

Demosthenes 3
(No, I don't demonstrate Nintendo's - It's the name of a Greek
philosopher. Deh-moss-ten-ees :))
"You cannot killfile that which does not exist." - G da KP/Ripclaw
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 2
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 01:42:37 -0500
----------
> From: Demosthenes Three <demosthenes_3@*****.COM>

<snip description>

> There. Better now?:)

OK, it fits better in paradigm now, even though I personally think there
have got to be better ways to damage astral objects (how about hollow
shells filled with active [as in living] proteins?). I just have one
question:

You advocate shooting ass-fat as a last ditch defense? Does Jenny Craig
have a contract out on you yet? (yes, I know this is two questions... two
rhetorical questions = one real question)

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
aka Ellegon
ICQ 8108180 AIM: Nexx3
Fliegende Kinderscheisse!
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Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 02:44:06 -0400
Once upon a time, Demosthenes Three wrote;

>CHUNK LAUNCHER V. 2.0
<snip>

Wouldn't it just be simpler to use FAB instead of body tissue? It
just seems like you're going about it the long way. Of course if the
character itself had this deluded belief that his flesh will destroy
things and can convince a Street Doc to "fix" him up then it just doesn't
matter. Of course that starts to sound more like a NPC there.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:45:26 +1000
Demosthenes Three writes:
>CHUNK LAUNCHER V. 2.0
>It's no longer cyberware - now it's simply an attached weapon, similar
>to the Forearm Snap Blades. The reason I tried cyber first was to make
>it more of a hold out weapon.

Better... that gets around the cyber vs regen problem.

>The CL's aiming mechanism is strapped solidly to the users forearm, it
>is then connected to a small, but powerful pump, that mounts on the
>users belt, and rides just above the user's buttocks. The pump is
>connected to the aiming mechanism via heavy duty surgical tubing.
>When activated by muscular triggers in the forearm, the CL's powerful,
>compact surgical scoop (I need a better word for what is basically an
>automated scalpel:)) which removes several grams of fat from the
>users' buttocks.

*shudder* I'd hate for that scalpel to slip (regeneration or no
regeneration).

[snip bit about how the weapon does minimal damage, at best, against
physical targets]

>Against astral tragets, there is NO damage, however, (depending on how
>you work it in your game :)) the target can be knocked back by the
>impact. Also, the displacement of the tissue, body fluids, and blood
>can serve to "outline" the astral target, allowing other attackers to
>better aim FAB weapons, or other containment devices at the target.


Ummm... no, sorry. :) The astral entity is pushed aside, but the tissue is
NOT displaced. Go back and read about FAB a little more. The upshot is that
while the physical can affect the astral to some degree, the astral finds it
a lot harder to affect the physical (with the exception of concentrated
'astral entities' like spells, which still have to cross over to the
physical to do the dirty work). So it wouldn't outline the astral target.

>There. Better now?:)


Ummm... no, not really. Oh, yeah, sure it would work now (aside from the
fact that you'd have to be nuts to use it). But it wouldn't actually do
anything, besides creating laughs as the poor ninja gets his butt repeatedly
sliced open (oh, and lots of blood on the floor, or in the suit).

So what do you want to use it for now? (Oh, and if you want to beat up on
the astral creature, give the ninja the FAB net)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 5
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:24:05 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:35 PM 5/12/98 -0700, Demosthenes 3 wrote:
>Against astral tragets, there is NO damage, however, (depending on
how
>you work it in your game :)) the target can be knocked back by the
>impact. Also, the displacement of the tissue, body fluids, and blood
>can serve to "outline" the astral target, allowing other attackers to
>better aim FAB weapons, or other containment devices at the target.

There's a little problem with that. The tissue and body fluids won't
displace when they impact with an astral target, because the astral
target is in no way shape or form present on the physical plane. The
flightpath of the chunk must obey the laws of physics and if there's
no physical object to intervene, then it will travel on a simple
balistic path between launcher and wherever it comes to rest.

In Corporate Security, it was suggested that beings on the astral have
'casual mass' vs living things on the physical, but this would set way
too dangerous of a precident, as it would allow Astral Projectors to
beat up on people on the Physical. (The poor Street Sam could fight
back, but he'd be punching blind, and there's nothing to stop an
Astral Projector to make use of the unique properties of the Astral
environment to avoid being hit at all)

This is one reason that I wish FASA had never published those damned
FAB netguns, because they horribly contridict existing rules, without
giving a detailed explanation of why, and describing how things should
work.

I am curious, could us list newbies have a summary of the conclusions
that last year's big FAB debate came to? (I understand that even the
DLoH was in on the debate?)

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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
Message no. 6
From: Demosthenes Three <demosthenes_3@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher V. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:50:02 -0700
Once upon a time, Demosthenes Three wrote;

>CHUNK LAUNCHER V. 2.0
<snip>

     Wouldn't it just be simpler to use FAB instead of body tissue? It
just seems like you're going about it the long way. Of course if the
character itself had this deluded belief that his flesh will destroy
things and can convince a Street Doc to "fix" him up then it just
doesn't
matter. Of course that starts to sound more like a NPC there.

I thought of using FAB, but my GM has sensibly made that a restricted
item. AFAIK it's something you need a corporate security lisence to
purchase, and My PC certainly does not have one. :)

So I figured I'd try the next best thing.

Demosthenes 3




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Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:50:54 -0600
Paul Gettle wrote:
/
/ I am curious, could us list newbies have a summary of the conclusions
/ that last year's big FAB debate came to? (I understand that even the
/ DLoH was in on the debate?)

Okay.

Astral presences cannot affect the physical world in any way.

Auras of physical beings (not dual natured) that come in contact with
astral presences push the astral presences aside. Niether the
physical being or the astral presence is harmed or affected. The
physical being is not aware of the encounter.

If an astral presence is sandwiched between two or more auras it will
squirt out any available opening.

In an instance where a situation occurs in which an astral presence
is sandwiched between two or more auras, and it cannot escape... we
couldn't figure that one out. It's up to each GM to decide what
happens. Some possible solutions are: the astral presence keeps the
physical beings apart (suspends the FAB net above the earth), the
astral presence and physical being are both affected as if combating
eachother until the situation is not longer occuring or one of the
beings dies, the astral presence dies, the astral presence merges
with the aura of the physical being causing indescribable pain for
both.

-David
--
"This above all: to thine own self be true..."
- Shakespeare
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: "<greg>" <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:35:47 -0400
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
>In an instance where a situation occurs in which an astral presence
>is sandwiched between two or more auras, and it cannot escape... we
>couldn't figure that one out. It's up to each GM to decide what
>happens. Some possible solutions are: the astral presence keeps the
>physical beings apart (suspends the FAB net above the earth), the
>astral presence and physical being are both affected as if combating
>eachother until the situation is not longer occuring or one of the
>beings dies, the astral presence dies, the astral presence merges
>with the aura of the physical being causing indescribable pain for
>both.


A third option, not to belabor the point. Is that the physics of the astral
and the physics of the physical could be disjoint. Such that what would
occur is that the astral being would be trapped under the net as one would
imagine, but the net would not behave any differently in the physical (it
would be flat) The astral body is therefore beneath the net normally but
does not hold the net above the earth. There's the difficulty of thinking
nth dimensionally in this approach but I like it.

Greg Childress
greg@***.edu

P.S. For those of you attending Origins; there WILL BE a FASA Official
tourney. Unfortunately there was a mix-up and the blurb and time did not
make it into the pre-reg book. The tourney will begin on Thursday night and
last three nights. and I'll include the blurb intended for the Origins book
here. Hope to see you.


The Renraku Arcology has locked down. Renraku says it's for security
reasons, but if that's the case, then why has the UCAS Army set up a
perimeter? At the height of the holiday shopping season, the Arc has
closed its doors, and nobody knows why. One hundred thousand souls are
trapped within.

Is it your fault?

Origins '98 Shadowrun Tourney...you'll pay for the whole seat, but you'll
only use the edge!
Message no. 9
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:01:02 -0700
> Wow.
> I never expected that the list would react so strongly to a silly
> little idea like that! :)

Well...The list is kinda like nitro..Sometimes you can bang on it
with a hammer..and then a feather can fall on it and it will blow
up..

> When activated by muscular triggers in the forearm, the CL's powerful,
> compact surgical scoop (I need a better word for what is basically an
> automated scalpel:)) which removes several grams of fat from the
> users' buttocks.

LOL..ROFLOL..LMAO..erk..LOLSM...

> Dmage done to physical targets is near minimal. (Maybe 3L?)

I would make this stun dammage..And I would still place the user into
shock shortly after using this weapon..

> Against astral tragets, there is NO damage, however, (depending on how
> you work it in your game :)) the target can be knocked back by the
> impact. Also, the displacement of the tissue, body fluids, and blood
> can serve to "outline" the astral target, allowing other attackers to
> better aim FAB weapons, or other containment devices at the target.

I would not allow this sort of thing...if the fat chunk came into
contact with an astral form the astral form would simple move out of
the way and the fat chunk would continue on its way as though nothing
had occured..

> Demosthenes 3
> (No, I don't demonstrate Nintendo's - It's the name of a Greek
> philosopher. Deh-moss-ten-ees :))

Sorry about that..But when I see your handle..it breaks up and
looks like Demos the nes 3 .. :)

Although this same effect could be achieved without damage to the
user..Place moss or algae or other like plant material into a
container..and launch it in segmented slugs..the same splat factor
could be achieved..and if you really want to be nasty make it poison
oak or ivy..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
Message no. 10
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:45:29 -0500
>
> Chunk Launcher v. 2.0 (Demosthenes Three , Wed 1:35)

> There. Better now?:)

Well,the engenerering is better (external weapon for regen being), as
is the damage done to norms, if not the other rules; I don't even care
about those rules,though, for 3 reasons. :)
Besides that, you said were using the imortal flower to regen, which
means you could have any cyber implanted, as I assume you are not
continuously under its effect. (gad, I HOPE its not so easy to force out
cyber as dosing somebody with Imortal Flower, or THAT would be a nasty
"weapon").
Easier than using your own flesh would be shooting another live
creature. This could be a leach or other parasite, allowing it to live
of your blood if you were using cyber or inteding long term wear, or an
animal kept alive by nutrients and p4mo cycling which you would have to
"feed".
If you wanted an weapon that also worked in the matrix, it could even
fire a 4 inch goldfish, which is a breed of CARP. <Ha ha ha, retires to
RERR room :) >

-Mongoose





>
> Demosthenes 3
> (No, I don't demonstrate Nintendo's - It's the name of a Greek
> philosopher. Deh-moss-ten-ees :))

D. and L. are also the pseudonyms of the most influential "netizins"
ever to exist, in the "Enders Game" trilogy. Cute. NOT. :)
Message no. 11
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:46:52 +1000
> Easier than using your own flesh would be shooting another live
> creature. This could be a leach or other parasite, allowing it to live
> of your blood if you were using cyber or inteding long term wear, or an
> animal kept alive by nutrients and p4mo cycling which you would have to
> "feed".

"Hamster-Gram!"

I just have this image of a shoulder-mounted catapult, ammo supplied as
belts of little packed lemmings...

Oh dear, I need to get more sleep...

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
Message no. 12
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Chunk Launcher v. 2.0
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:23:45 -0400
Lady Jestyr wrote:
>> Easier than using your own flesh would be shooting another live
>> creature. This could be a leach or other parasite, allowing it to live
>> of your blood if you were using cyber or inteding long term wear, or an
>> animal kept alive by nutrients and p4mo cycling which you would have to
>> "feed".
>
>"Hamster-Gram!"
>
>I just have this image of a shoulder-mounted catapult, ammo supplied as
>belts of little packed lemmings...

LOL! Now I've got the "Oh no! *splat*" from Lemmings running through
my mind...

>Oh dear, I need to get more sleep...

And you thought some of *my* ideas were sick... :-)

James Ojaste

Further Reading

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