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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: chunky-salsa and chokes
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 15:05:14 -0400
On Sat, 25 Jun 1994, JOHANNA BURWELL-KALES wrote:

> I have a question though, could someone explain to me the chunky
> salsa effect. I have looked at the rules but am still confused, as well
> as the spread effects of shotguns and thier chokes.
> Thanx.
>

OK. "Chunky-salsa" is the slang term given to the phenomenon
caused by a grenade detonating in a confined environment. Imagine
being in a closed bank vault when a grenade goes of. There's no where
for the blast to go once it hits the walls because they are strong
enough to contain it, so the pressure in the area rises to incredible
levels. With a fragmentation grenade, you have not only the blast but the
shrapnel bouncing around. In game terms, this raises the effective
power level of the blast to something crazy, making death almost
inevitable, as it should be. The term "chunky-salsa" is used to refer to
what the remains of anyone caught in such a blast resemble.
Choke is how much the shot pattern of a shotgun spreads. I'll
let someone else handle this one 'cause I've changed the shotgun rules in
my campaign due to the inherent wrongness of the choke rules in SRII.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: chunky-salsa and chokes
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 17:50:36 +1000
Marc writes:

> Choke is how much the shot pattern of a shotgun spreads. I'll
> let someone else handle this one 'cause I've changed the shotgun rules in
> my campaign due to the inherent wrongness of the choke rules in SRII.

Yeah, their explanation, written example and diagramatic example all
conflict. Would you mind posting your rules for shoty spread?

Also, does anyone have an explanation for how to handle a chunky salsa like
the one I'm going to draw below?
_________________________________________________________
| ^ |
| | |
| 1m |
| | |
| v |
| P *|
|<------1m------> <-----------------2m----------------->|
| |
| |

P = Phill the psychotic Axe Murdering Samurai
* = Offensive Grenade Detonation Point (10S, -1 Power per m)

Damion
Message no. 3
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: chunky-salsa and chokes
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:24:15 -0400
Since Damion asked (silly fool! :) ) here goes:

Our shotgun rules are as follows:

1. Buckshot does NOT raise the damage code as per the flechette rules.
So you Remington Roomsweeper only does 9M. The damage codes for the real
shotguns (Enfield, Mossberg, etc. are assumed to be slug, so they don't
get reduced. If you look, their damage codes are not marked with an (f),
so FASA had not factored spread into their damage codes as they had for
the Roomsweeper. Don't ask me why) So, slug or shot, no matter, same
Damage Code.

2. Choke can be set from 2 to 10 as per SRII rules. Modifications like
sawing off a barrel add to the concealability and put a maximum upper
limit on the choke. It also reduces the effective range for slugs due to
the shorter barrel. Sawed-off's are good in close, but suck rocks at range.

3. Shot pattern. After travelling a number of meters equal to TWICE the
choke setting, the shot pattern spreads one meter in DIAMETER, target #
drops by one, Power Level drops by one. As an inverse burst thing, after
every three spreads, the Damage Code also drops by one category.

So, a Remington Roomsweeper is set at a choke of 3 (heh) and fired in
close quarters (into an open elevator door) at a range of 6 meters. The
shot pattern will spread once, for an overall hit of 8M, -1 T#, over a
1meter diameter circle.

If this same weapon was fired in the open (at a bunch of corp-guards next
to a building, say) at a range of 20 meters, the pattern would have
spread three times, resulting in a pattern that was three meters in
diameter. It would have damage of 6L with a -3 to the T#. This makes
sense, because at 70 feet, a 10 foot spread from a shotgun would yield
little in the way of results. Your best bet is that you happen to hit
something vital, hence the lower T#

As posted, the SRII rules allow for a shot pattern extending in something
like a 45 degree arc beginning at the muzzle. I don't think so, even
at greatest rate of spread.

Oh, also, shot goes off of Impact Armor and slugs use Ballistic.

Marc
Message no. 4
From: Bob McMillan <robmcm@***.GLA.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: chunky-salsa and chokes
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 09:05:04 +0100
First of all... Hi everybody.

Now, down to business

>If this same weapon was fired in the open (at a bunch of corp-guards next
>to a building, say) at a range of 20 meters, the pattern would have
>spread three times, resulting in a pattern that was three meters in
>diameter. It would have damage of 6L with a -3 to the T#. This makes
>sense, because at 70 feet, a 10 foot spread from a shotgun would yield
>little in the way of results. Your best bet is that you happen to hit
>something vital, hence the lower T#

I beg to differ with your rules but Shotguns in reality are a lot more
powerful than that (even firing shot rounds). I used to be a hunter and the
damage on an object at 20 metres from a decent shotgun cartridge is more
than obvious.

6L seems ok for power but I would probably make it M for damage level since
in life you would be expecting the armour of the corp guards to offset the
damage.

>As posted, the SRII rules allow for a shot pattern extending in something
>like a 45 degree arc beginning at the muzzle. I don't think so, even
>at greatest rate of spread.

Agreed, The rate of expansion does depend on the choke on your gun but is
definitely not 45 degress unless you happen to find a Blunderbuss ;-)

>Oh, also, shot goes off of Impact Armor and slugs use Ballistic.
Well, yes but there are variants on shotgun cartridges designed to kill
foxes (well maybe that wasn't their original use). These contain about 10 to
20 small ball-bearing. These would probably use Ballistic but without any
damage reduction and very little spread. (Perhaps even a damage increase
since each of these bearings is at least .5cm across.)

Anybody got any suggestions about rules for these (fortunately none of my
players know they exist).

>Marc

Bob McMillan
(aka The Pessimistic Detective)
Message no. 5
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: chunky-salsa and chokes
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:21:36 -0400
On Thu, 30 Jun 1994, Bob McMillan wrote:

> First of all... Hi everybody.
>
> Now, down to business
>
> >If this same weapon was fired in the open (at a bunch of corp-guards next
> >to a building, say) at a range of 20 meters, the pattern would have
> >spread three times, resulting in a pattern that was three meters in
> >diameter. It would have damage of 6L with a -3 to the T#. This makes
> >sense, because at 70 feet, a 10 foot spread from a shotgun would yield
> >little in the way of results. Your best bet is that you happen to hit
> >something vital, hence the lower T#
>
> I beg to differ with your rules but Shotguns in reality are a lot more
> powerful than that (even firing shot rounds). I used to be a hunter and the
> damage on an object at 20 metres from a decent shotgun cartridge is more
> than obvious.
>
> 6L seems ok for power but I would probably make it M for damage level since
> in life you would be expecting the armour of the corp guards to offset the
> damage.
>
> >As posted, the SRII rules allow for a shot pattern extending in something
> >like a 45 degree arc beginning at the muzzle. I don't think so, even
> >at greatest rate of spread.
>
> Agreed, The rate of expansion does depend on the choke on your gun but is
> definitely not 45 degress unless you happen to find a Blunderbuss ;-)
>
> >Oh, also, shot goes off of Impact Armor and slugs use Ballistic.
> Well, yes but there are variants on shotgun cartridges designed to kill
> foxes (well maybe that wasn't their original use). These contain about 10 to
> 20 small ball-bearing. These would probably use Ballistic but without any
> damage reduction and very little spread. (Perhaps even a damage increase
> since each of these bearings is at least .5cm across.)
>
> Anybody got any suggestions about rules for these (fortunately none of my
> players know they exist).
>
> >Marc
>
> Bob McMillan
> (aka The Pessimistic Detective)
>

I agree with you on all counts. The low power (6L) takes into account
the fact that you are using the shotgun at a VERY low choke setting,
where it is not necessarily your best weapon at 20 meters. At a choke of
eight or ten, the pattern would only spread once, and you would have an
8M hit. Also, the example was with a Remington Roomsweeper, which is not
really a shotgun at all. It's a heavy pistol. But yes, at 20 Meters, a
true hunting shotgun's damage would be more than apparent (as today's
typical shotgun has a "choke" on the order of 7-8 or so)

Marc

Further Reading

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