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Message no. 1
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: City states and what not
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:11:41 -0600
CALMON PEDRO MARANHAO wrote:
>
> > They would not like some of the things I did to the universe. One of the
> > big is the infamous H is dead.
> > The whole IE thing is very under played in my campaign certain nations
> > either don't exist or have different boundaries. My version of the SR
> > universe has many twists and turns away from official cannon. So The
> > ideas I have would not fit into most folks games. I could explain in
> > great detail all of the changes I have made but it's probably not worth
> > the band width.
> >
> I would like to hear it.

First off killing the elf, the way that is done is so simple. Look at
the rules for falling from a high place
and then shove the one H out of a aircraft while he is sleeping. Splat
no more Amoral IE to deal with. Everyone dies if they fall from 1000m :)

One of the major border changes is UCAS itself. An international boarder
in the middle on no place makes no sense to me. I live in that region we
have a wonderful natural boundary the Missouri river. This is also my
where UCAS boarder is. With the exception of Omaha and Kansas City which
are free city states. KC and Omaha have a substantial corp presence but
smuggling and mercenary outfits also call this area home and have
booming trade in the area. Most folks will hate this one Seattle is
nothing much it's a part of the NAN Salish-Shidhe to be exact. This also
makes them quite the economic power so actually Seattle is still a
decent place to run the shadows. The big corps do have stuff in the area
cut the size of corp assets by at least 50%. The all have major
facilites in San Diego Renraku decided to build the big stuff in San
Diego, the Azzie's followed suit etc. As that is the west coast port
city that the treaty of denver gave the to UCAS.

The reason I did this San Diego is has much better port facilities and
they would have fought long and hard to get them. Texas won back
everything to the old boarder and a little more They are also a maverick
free state who have a really good boarder patrol. They are some
obsessive folks and really wanted El Paso back and even got Roswell in
the deal. Because once again I used a river if you have figured it out
yet I'm pretty fond of natural boundaries. Tir Tairngire has a nice
expansion as well they got most of what used to be Idaho that river
thing yet again.
So that's my version of North America
--


You live and learn. Or you don't live long.
Message no. 2
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:08:01 EST
In a message dated 98-02-18 13:16:25 EST, scrose@****.COM writes:

> The reason I did this San Diego is has much better port facilities and
> they would have fought long and hard to get them. Texas won back
> everything to the old boarder and a little more They are also a maverick
> free state who have a really good boarder patrol. They are some
> obsessive folks and really wanted El Paso back and even got Roswell in
> the deal. Because once again I used a river if you have figured it out
> yet I'm pretty fond of natural boundaries. Tir Tairngire has a nice
> expansion as well they got most of what used to be Idaho that river
> thing yet again.
> So that's my version of North America
> -
Interesting variation on Texas here, I would like to point out however that
"Roswell" is part of PCC and not Aztlan, and thus the mentality would be MUCH
different in the retaking of this. Plus, though Texans are quite capable of
doing what they want and how they want, they are good at keeping the
direction, at least speaking historically. Also, 'Roswell' is -not all that
far- from a particular magical site of SR historical reference. You should
have probably kept that in consideration before allowing the NAN to give it up
without a BIG magical retributive action occuring.

BUT, the overall idea is good.

-K
Message no. 3
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:41:03 +0000
On 18 Feb 98, s c rose disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

[...]
> First off killing the elf, the way that is done is so simple. Look
> at the rules for falling from a high place and then shove the one H
> out of a aircraft while he is sleeping. Splat no more Amoral IE to
> deal with. Everyone dies if they fall from 1000m :)

Ummm... What about the quickened detect fall/levitate person combo?
<grin>

Seriously, after being thrown out of a plane, one has a tendency to
wake up. And falling down from 1000 m takes some time, presumably
more than 2-3 rounds, so the H would have the time to cast Levitate
Person.

Just shoot him while on a suborbital. ;>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
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PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
You need leather balls to play rugby.
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:57:52 +1000
s c rose writes:
>One of the major border changes is UCAS itself. An international boarder
>in the middle on no place makes no sense to me. I live in that region we


Um... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the old border
between East and West Germany was pretty much in the middle of no place.

A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing ("You'll
have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).

(I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of the
UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you can have
the rest"). Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically
Washington State with a wall around it, and then there's California... The
state borders are pretty much in "the middle of no place". Of course, I
could be wrong.)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:46:17 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 12:57/19 Feb 98...

> Um... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the old border
> between East and West Germany was pretty much in the middle of no place.
>
> A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing ("You'll
> have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).

A great many borders are in the middle of nowhere, without a handy river,
sea, or mountain chain to mark it. This is most apparent in relatively new
countries, such as in North America and much of Africa, where many borders
were simply drawn on maps with a ruler.

In Europe, most borders are the result of centuries, or millennia, of
countries forming, breaking up, being conquered by others, and so on. Most
borders are in the middle of nowhere, except for a few handy ones like the
French/German border than follows the Rhine for a good bit. These are the
exception rather than the rule, though.

> (I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of the
> UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you can have
> the rest").

That's the way that makes most sense, however if you look at the map in
the back of SRII, you'll see this is not what FASA thought :( Most of the
borders are somewhere in the middle of modern-day states, except for those
of California Free State and the western border of the CAS (i.e. Texas).

> Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically Washington State
> with a wall around it, and then there's California...

Seattle is not much more than the current-day cities of Seattle, Redmond,
Everett, and the rest with a wall around them. Washington is a lot bigger
than that, AFAIK.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
That's just fine.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 6
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:17:25 -0800
Gurth wrote:

> > A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing ("You'll
> > have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).

> A great many borders are in the middle of nowhere, without a handy river,
> sea, or mountain chain to mark it. This is most apparent in relatively new
> countries, such as in North America and much of Africa, where many borders
> were simply drawn on maps with a ruler.

From long-ago school lessons -- many are set along a certain parallel
(very rarely longitude, however). As good a reference as any.
'Fifty-Three Forty or Fight', anyone?

-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl

Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 7
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:57:58 -0005
On 19 Feb 98 at 10:46, Gurth wrote:

> Robert Watkins said on 12:57/19 Feb 98...
>
> > Um... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the old border
> > between East and West Germany was pretty much in the middle of no place.
> >
> > A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing ("You'll
> > have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).
>
> A great many borders are in the middle of nowhere, without a handy river,
> sea, or mountain chain to mark it. This is most apparent in relatively
> new countries, such as in North America and much of Africa, where many
> borders were simply drawn on maps with a ruler.

Does no one remember the 39th parallel?

> > Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically Washington State
> > with a wall around it, and then there's California...
>
> Seattle is not much more than the current-day cities of Seattle, Redmond,
> Everett, and the rest with a wall around them. Washington is a lot bigger
> than that, AFAIK.

The Seattle sprawl is basically the Hong Kong of the west. And benefits
from the same economic factors that made Hong Kong such a prosperous
place. It's on the Pacific Rim, it has access to extensive rail lines, it
has a good sea port *and* a good air port. There's a strong industrial
base there is already and every indication that it's going to grow. With
trade agreements with Tir Tairngire and the Salish it could become a place
to make and loose fortunes. Various books also make it clear Seattle is
almost palantine in it's diplomatic freedom. That's a unique environment
and one that would likely draw business looking for free trade. I'll be
interested to see if the free state rebels win out and Seattle actually
tries to go it own way. *That* would make for interesting times indeed.
--
@>->,-`---
Ashelock
o=<======-

GM's Theme: "I am the eye in the sky, looking at you, I can see your lies.
I am the maker of rules, dealing in fools, I can cheat you blind."
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:01:56 -0700
Robert Watkins wrote:
/
/ (I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of the
/ UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you can have
/ the rest"). Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically
/ Washington State with a wall around it, and then there's California... The
/ state borders are pretty much in "the middle of no place". Of course, I
/ could be wrong.)

I wish you were right. It'd be easy to make a home-made map.

The only borders that match state borders are the New Mexico/Texas border
and a stretch of the eastern border between the UCAS and the CAS.

The midwest states were sliced up pretty good.

-David
--
"At the risk of being labelled, quote, politically correct, unquote,
I must object. I demand to have something named in my honor!"
- Ratbert
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 9
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:04:51 -0005
On 19 Feb 98 at 8:01, David Buehrer wrote:

> Robert Watkins wrote:
> /
> / (I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of
> the / UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you
> can have / the rest"). Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is
> basically / Washington State with a wall around it, and then there's
> California... The / state borders are pretty much in "the middle of no
> place". Of course, I / could be wrong.)
>
> I wish you were right. It'd be easy to make a home-made map.

If I ever get some quality time with a flatbed scanner I have
topicgraphical maps from the USGS of the Seattle Sprawl area. Much easier
to use than those blurrs in the back of the Seattle Source book. *If* I
can get them scanned in the near future I'll see if Paolo will post them
on the archive.
--
@>->,-`---
Ashelock
o=<======-

GM's Theme: "I am the eye in the sky, looking at you, I can see your lies.
I am the maker of rules, dealing in fools, I can cheat you blind."
Message no. 10
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:30:16 -0600
J. Keith Henry wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-02-18 13:16:25 EST, scrose@****.COM writes:
>
> > The reason I did this San Diego is has much better port facilities and
> > they would have fought long and hard to get them. Texas won back
> > everything to the old boarder and a little more They are also a maverick
> > free state who have a really good boarder patrol. They are some
> > obsessive folks and really wanted El Paso back and even got Roswell in
> > the deal. Because once again I used a river if you have figured it out
> > yet I'm pretty fond of natural boundaries. Tir Tairngire has a nice
> > expansion as well they got most of what used to be Idaho that river
> > thing yet again.
> > So that's my version of North America
> > -
> Interesting variation on Texas here, I would like to point out however that
> "Roswell" is part of PCC and not Aztlan, and thus the mentality would be
MUCH
> different in the retaking of this. Plus, though Texans are quite capable of
> doing what they want and how they want, they are good at keeping the
> direction, at least speaking historically. Also, 'Roswell' is -not all that
> far- from a particular magical site of SR historical reference. You should
> have probably kept that in consideration before allowing the NAN to give it up
> without a BIG magical retributive action occuring.
>
> BUT, the overall idea is good.

Thanks the Roswell thing is just to make things not so friendly between
NAN and The Republic of Texas and is a highly disputed claim. Both PCC
and Texas claim it but and it changes hands every now and then. Gives a
wonderful chance for the merc and smuggler teams to have some out of
town work. :)
Message no. 11
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:41:01 -0600
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:
>
> On 18 Feb 98, s c rose disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
> writing:
>
> [...]
> > First off killing the elf, the way that is done is so simple. Look
> > at the rules for falling from a high place and then shove the one H
> > out of a aircraft while he is sleeping. Splat no more Amoral IE to
> > deal with. Everyone dies if they fall from 1000m :)
>
> Ummm... What about the quickened detect fall/levitate person combo?
> <grin>
>
> Seriously, after being thrown out of a plane, one has a tendency to
> wake up. And falling down from 1000 m takes some time, presumably
> more than 2-3 rounds, so the H would have the time to cast Levitate
> Person.
>
> Just shoot him while on a suborbital. ;>

Actually they used drugs and I did check to see if he woke up and nope
didn't happen he fell and splated... I was kind of disappointed I wanted
him to be pissed about it but if you don't wake up on the way down
oops...
Message no. 12
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:59:06 -0600
Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> s c rose writes:
> >One of the major border changes is UCAS itself. An international boarder
> >in the middle on no place makes no sense to me. I live in that region we
>
> Um... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the old border
> between East and West Germany was pretty much in the middle of no place.

It was and also was not circa 1500-2000km long
it's easier to keep track of a river than to maintain patrols over that
large an area.

> A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing ("You'll
> have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).



> (I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of the
> UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you can have
> the rest"). Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically
> Washington State with a wall around it, and then there's California... The
> state borders are pretty much in "the middle of no place". Of course, I
> could be wrong.)

No that was the type of correction that where made The missouri river
is used as a state boarder but that is not where the politic map circa
2057 shows them to exist so I went ahead and moved them.

> --
> .sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 13
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:20:25 -0600
Ashlocke wrote:
>
> On 19 Feb 98 at 10:46, Gurth wrote:
>
> > Robert Watkins said on 12:57/19 Feb 98...
> >
> > > Um... I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the old border
> > > between East and West Germany was pretty much in the middle of no place.
> > >
> > > A lot of the time, borders are drawn up by decree, sort of thing
("You'll
> > > have the stuff on that side, I'll have the stuff on this side).
> >
> > A great many borders are in the middle of nowhere, without a handy river,
> > sea, or mountain chain to mark it. This is most apparent in relatively
> > new countries, such as in North America and much of Africa, where many
> > borders were simply drawn on maps with a ruler.
>
> Does no one remember the 39th parallel?

Probally better than you do for that matter. I personally spent 14
mouths in Korea in 1986-87 lived in a tent for 4 months while doing
patrols of it. Spent five or six of the other nine months I was in that
place doing "Field training" all over that sorry country. It's a
miserible little country I don't recomend it to anyone at least not if
you are a solider... If you like sleeping in tents and all to often
join the infantry and get sent to an area with an armed truce. Which is
part of the reason I moved the that international boundry if you have a
boarder in the middle of no where and you are not on the best of term
with the people on the other side. it takes real amounts of man power to
patrol it. The boarders mentioned are not well over 1500km which is the
case in the UCAS NAN boarder everyone is going to want to know where it
is.

> > > Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically Washington State
> > > with a wall around it, and then there's California...
> >
> > Seattle is not much more than the current-day cities of Seattle, Redmond,
> > Everett, and the rest with a wall around them. Washington is a lot bigger
> > than that, AFAIK.
>
> The Seattle sprawl is basically the Hong Kong of the west. And benefits
> from the same economic factors that made Hong Kong such a prosperous
> place. It's on the Pacific Rim, it has access to extensive rail lines, it
> has a good sea port *and* a good air port. There's a strong industrial
> base there is already and every indication that it's going to grow. With
> trade agreements with Tir Tairngire and the Salish it could become a place
> to make and loose fortunes. Various books also make it clear Seattle is
> almost palantine in it's diplomatic freedom. That's a unique environment
> and one that would likely draw business looking for free trade. I'll be
> interested to see if the free state rebels win out and Seattle actually
> tries to go it own way. *That* would make for interesting times indeed.
> --
> @>->,-`---
> Ashelock
> o=<======-
>
> GM's Theme: "I am the eye in the sky, looking at you, I can see your lies.
> I am the maker of rules, dealing in fools, I can cheat you blind."
Message no. 14
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:25:31 -0600
David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Robert Watkins wrote:
> /
> / (I don't know much about USA geography, but I thought the borders of the
> / UCAS was along the _state_ borders ("We'll keep these states, you can have
> / the rest"). Supported by this is the fact that Seattle is basically
> / Washington State with a wall around it, and then there's California... The
> / state borders are pretty much in "the middle of no place". Of course, I
> / could be wrong.)
>
> I wish you were right. It'd be easy to make a home-made map.

This is one of the reasons I did this it also has to do with actaully
living in Omaha Nebraska. It is also one of the main game settings and a
boarder city is so much more fun to play in. It makes it easier to play
the game if the runners (The players actually know the area) Can't very
well make Omaha a big important border city if the border is 300km
alway. This is one of the raesons Also Omaha is a real life
communications and shipping center. This is one of those odd little
things the Omaha area has everything execpt a seaport. Above average
communications (SAC / STRATCOM depending on the name you want to use)
has been here for years. Huge rail yards and all that stuff too. I think
I said that Seattle was still a good place to run the shawdows and it
is. Thing is the US/UCAS government would have wanted to keep San Deigo
more than Seattle and the tribes would have wanted the Seattle area very
badly do the words naval yard and holy land have any meaning.

The corps have existed for over 10 years as nation states so it would
not have been the interest of the concerned parties to keep Seattle as a
part of UCAS but going for the bigger brass ring of San Deigo.
you have to back up the time line to treaty of denver the tir did not
exist so the trade agreements would not have existed Cali free state
didn't exist either but when cali free state did come into existance
UCAS managed to keep the port for peaceful trade. I'm glad folks took an
interest in this and I'm kind of suprised at the response it has gotten.
I did these things for my game because they work and make sense.

> The only borders that match state borders are the New Mexico/Texas border
> and a stretch of the eastern border between the UCAS and the CAS.

I stated when I made the first post on this topic that some of the
things I've done just would not work in some peoples games and the ideas
are a far cry form FASA cannon...

> The midwest states were sliced up pretty good.

Which I decided was plain silly and fixed. To put the boarder back where
it was in the case of Nebraska / Iowa state line became the UCAS / NAN
border.
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:44:51 +0100
Ashlocke said on 8:57/19 Feb 98...

> Does no one remember the 39th parallel?

Sure. Do you remember the 17th? :)

> Various books also make it clear Seattle is almost palantine in it's
> diplomatic freedom. That's a unique environment and one that would
> likely draw business looking for free trade. I'll be interested to see
> if the free state rebels win out and Seattle actually tries to go it own
> way. *That* would make for interesting times indeed.

I have this feeling FASA will base one of their theme years around Seattle
trying to go independent from the UCAS.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
That's just fine.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 16
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:23:41 EST
> I have this feeling FASA will base one of their theme years around
> Seattle trying to go independent from the UCAS.

I doubt it. You have NAN, Cal Free State, the Tir, and a ton of
other groups that'd love to take over. Only the threat of the UCAS
contents them to stay put.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 17
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:30:43 +0100
>> Various books also make it clear Seattle is almost palantine in it's
>> diplomatic freedom. That's a unique environment and one that would
>> likely draw business looking for free trade. I'll be interested to see
>> if the free state rebels win out and Seattle actually tries to go it own
>> way. *That* would make for interesting times indeed.
>
>I have this feeling FASA will base one of their theme years around Seattle
>trying to go independent from the UCAS.

This will probably put an end to my buying of SR sourcebooks... if Seattle
succeeds. Otherwise, that could be fun if they fail.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 18
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:31:17 -0600
William Gallas wrote:
>
> >> Various books also make it clear Seattle is almost palantine in it's
> >> diplomatic freedom. That's a unique environment and one that would
> >> likely draw business looking for free trade. I'll be interested to see
> >> if the free state rebels win out and Seattle actually tries to go it own
> >> way. *That* would make for interesting times indeed.
> >
> >I have this feeling FASA will base one of their theme years around Seattle
> >trying to go independent from the UCAS.
>
> This will probably put an end to my buying of SR sourcebooks... if Seattle
> succeeds. Otherwise, that could be fun if they fail.

I'm somewhat confused by this statement. What do source books and an
entire gaming system have to do with one city. I have the seattle book
and neither like nor use it. What makes seattle important is the
industry in the area. It really does not matter who runs the city the
corps are still independent nations. Thing is I'm one of the people who
recreated and rewrote history so to speak to make things work better in
my game. I still buy source books the exception is what I call where
books. But source books like the grimmy and ShadowTech are still going
to be valid even if the environment is not exactly the same.
Message no. 19
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:39:17 +0100
>> >I have this feeling FASA will base one of their theme years around Seattle
>> >trying to go independent from the UCAS.
>>
>> This will probably put an end to my buying of SR sourcebooks... if Seattle
>> succeeds. Otherwise, that could be fun if they fail.
>
>I'm somewhat confused by this statement. What do source books and an
>entire gaming system have to do with one city. I have the seattle book
>and neither like nor use it. What makes seattle important is the
>industry in the area. It really does not matter who runs the city the
>corps are still independent nations. Thing is I'm one of the people who
>recreated and rewrote history so to speak to make things work better in
>my game. I still buy source books the exception is what I call where
>books. But source books like the grimmy and ShadowTech are still going
>to be valid even if the environment is not exactly the same.

IMO, sourcebooks are much more important than rulebooks. I can do rules
myself (I do it) but I like to use a complete universe like shadowrun.
Actually, Seattle is far more than an industrial city in SR. What makes it
a shadowrunners haven is the fact it is a platform between UCAS, NAN and
has an important role with its harbor and its airport.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 20
From: SCROSE <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: City states and what not
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:54:19 -0600
William Gallas wrote:

<snip>
>
> IMO, sourcebooks are much more important than rulebooks. I can do rules
> myself (I do it) but I like to use a complete universe like shadowrun.
> Actually, Seattle is far more than an industrial city in SR. What makes it
> a shadowrunners haven is the fact it is a platform between UCAS, NAN and
> has an important role with its harbor and its airport.

It would seem you and I use the hold different things to be of the most
importance. IMO a good rule system is important. I can and have changed
the environment to suit my needs as a GM, I moved borders around and
basically trash canned many sections of the "Cannon Time line" certain
things just didn't happen or happened in different places. The Night of
rage didn't start in Seattle in my game. It was San Diego that things
erupted. I started to look at the time line. Calf was still part of The
USA/UCAS when the treaty of denver was signed. The area around Seattle
is for lack of better term holy ground to the north western tribes. They
would not have given it up easily. Then when California decided to go
independent they would have been more than willing to let San Diego stay
in UCAS hands after all it is on the Azzie border. The NAN / UCAS bridge
cities are along the boarder Cities like Omaha, Kansas City and even
Fargo then again I moved the border too. :) I posted all the changes
that I made to north american in great detail not long ago. See that is
and was the point the where is not important the how and why are more
important IMO.

Further Reading

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