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Message no. 1
From: "Lynn Twiss" <ltwiss@********.com>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:08:27 +0000
Steve Tinner wrote:

"What do you mean that's my body in that vat?!?!?!?"..........
However, before he was killed, his body had been cloned from a tissue sample
taken by Lone Star while he worked for them.
Just for kicks and giggles, I decided to bring this PC back as a ghost....
How should I handle this?
Before you all say it can't be done,

>>>>>end<<<<<

GRANITE Responded:

Hmmmm...You know this sort of thing could become quite the munchkinized thing
but...I don't really think there is any problem with the astral form simply
jumping into the clone body..However..I would probably make the mage relearn
ALL of the spells he had before becoming one of the living impaired..I would
further require the ALL of the spells learned in his prior life be learned
before any new ones be learned or created..I would not even allow on the fly
spell creation of anything other than previously learned spells until all of
them had been relearned...My reasoning is this:

1]cloned body..cool..should be an *almost* perfect fit for the astral
form..so why not be able to inhabit the vacant body..

2]because the cloned body is not *exactly* identical to the one the astral
form used to inhabit all spells in memory must be relearned as the astral
form is now wearing new and slightly different meat..thus changing the
overall aura while casting on the physical plane..[I suppose I would allow
free access to all the previously knows spells while astrally projecting]..So
since the overall aura has changed, the spells won't sync up because the
caster no longer is completely familiar with his own aura while on the
physical plane..I would drastically reduce the ammount of karma and time it
would cost to relearn all of the old mystical arsenal but it would still
cost..I would require the same of summoning spirits/elementals a couple of
low level critters would probable go free before he would be back up to snuff
on this one as well...All in all it should be a pretty good Role playing
oportunity..

3]The reason I would require ALL the previous spells be relearned before
learning any new ones is..If the new old guy hasn't quite gotten the hang of
slinging spells in his new bod how could he possible learn new spells???

4]I think also I would make a max amount of time the astral form would have
to put on some new meat before it would be too late..Something like magic
rating in months..After this period the spirit would have basically forgotten
what it was like to have to breath and such..

>>>>>end<<<<<

Lynn asks:

Is it possible, if two mages were astrally projecting, for them to
switch bodys? If not for long term how about short? and would their
spirits forget which body they belonged to?


Sorry if this is a ridiculous question. This clonal think just had me
wondering.




Lynn Twiss
Clackamas, Oregon
Message no. 2
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft) -Reply
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:04:46 -0500
>Is it possible, if two mages were astrally projecting, for them to switch bodys? If
>not for long term how about short? and would their spirits forget which body
>they belonged to?
>
>
>Sorry if this is a ridiculous question. This clonal think just had me wondering.

Currently possession is a VERY rare thing in SR. On the other hand, doing it like
Anne Rice does in "The Tale of the Body Thief" seems perfectly reasonable if you
want it in your game. That says that the spirit has an affinity for its "Real"
body,
and you can't knock someone out of their body, but you can inhabit vacant bodies
and once there, it's hard to get you out if you don't want to leave...

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 3
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft) -Reply
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:16:19 -0500 (EST)
>>Is it possible, if two mages were astrally projecting, for them to switch
bodys? If
>>not for long term how about short? and would their spirits forget which body
>>they belonged to?
>>
>>
>>Sorry if this is a ridiculous question. This clonal think just had me
wondering.
>
>Currently possession is a VERY rare thing in SR. On the other hand, doing
it like
>Anne Rice does in "The Tale of the Body Thief" seems perfectly reasonable
if you
>want it in your game. That says that the spirit has an affinity for its
"Real" body,
>and you can't knock someone out of their body, but you can inhabit vacant
bodies
>and once there, it's hard to get you out if you don't want to leave...
>
>Double-Domed Mike
>
The problem here is twofold.

A) You're opening things to a lot of abuse...

B) What you do to them, they can do to you...:)

I prob wouldn't allow this in my game, in general, although the whole thing
about the clone body and the ghost is part of my GM's world...

Why are things complicated?:)


#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"You do more damage out of simple irritation than most
men can do in a towering rage."
-David Eddings, "Demon Lord of Karanda
Message no. 4
From: "Lynn Twiss" <ltwiss@********.com>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:46:36 +0000
> The problem here is twofold.
>
> A) You're opening things to a lot of abuse...
>
> B) What you do to them, they can do to you...:)

When I was GMing SR, my players never called shots or played
precisly. They always feared that eventually I would tire of all my
NPC's dying by a called shot to the head etc. and I would soon begin
to return the favor.
I've always seen it as "What they do to my NPC's - I WILL do to
them."

> Why are things complicated?:)

The trouble with fools is: They are so damned ingenious.
- Soloman Short






Lynn Twiss
Clackamas, Oregon
Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:33:28 -0600 (MDT)
Lynn Twiss wrote:
|
|> Why are things complicated?:)
|
|The trouble with fools is: They are so damned ingenious.
| - Soloman Short

My god. I'm ingenious :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 6
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:41:42 +1000 (EST)
On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:

> I've always seen it as "What they do to my NPC's - I WILL do to
> them."
>

Hmmm, That mean I get to steal their weapon Focus, Rip off their Car
and shoot all their friends? (Ohh and stop them from trying to save world
too...? )

Cool. :)


===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 7
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 14:32:57 +1000 (EST)
>
> Hmmm, That mean I get to steal their weapon Focus, Rip off their Car
> and shoot all their friends? (Ohh and stop them from trying to save world
> too...? )
>
Yup..... AND you get to use sniper rifles fired by initate mages with
centering and a flamebomb 10. Called shots to the head anyone??

Why do I think I'm not going to be popular with the players back here??
*grin*


Thank the spirits that Craig's not THAT vindictive.

Bleach.
Message no. 8
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 14:32:31 -0700
-- Lynn Twiss wrote:
> Is it possible, if two mages were astrally projecting, for them to
> switch bodys? If not for long term how about short? and would their
> spirits forget which body they belonged to?
> Sorry if this is a ridiculous question. This clonal think just had me
> wondering.
>

Actually I have been thinking about this sort of thing as well except on
a more *evil Gm bent*. As I see it if the astral body is not occupying
the physical body..Another astral body could jump into that body and thee
owner will be stuck in astral space until the present occupant of his
body gets out of it..of course if that astral form has a physical body
laying around somewhere his meat is still on the "I'm dying where is my
astral component that keeps me alive time table." If a mage were to jump
into each other's bodies..hmmmm..well I would allow this..However, I
would not allow those same mages to cast spells from the new meat
bodies..not without using the same process as jumping into a clone body
to readjust to the new overall aura..AND if that mage stayed in his
friends bod long enough to do this I would rule that in order to go back
to his natural bod he would have to again spend some time/karma in order
to readjust to being home although at a rate of 1/2 whatever the rate
being in a foreign body...These strictures should prevent abuse of this
idea..However for the enterprising GM out there.....EVIL GM GRIN...A
willful free spirit comes along and sees an empty body just lying
there..Now why would anybody throw away a perfectly good body like that??
the spirit says to itself..ANd jumps into the vacant body.....Oh and by
the way I would apply the magic rating in months time limit for the mage
to be out of his bod and then it's too late to go back time limit...

Double-Domed Mike wrote:
>Currently possession is a VERY rare thing in SR.


Actually there is a spell to accomplish this..It came out in a 5 part
series in White Wolf Mag from '92-'93 in a NewOrleans
sourcebook/adventure..And the whole thing seems to have been sanctioned
by FASA...Of course the magic is all voodoo..Possesion instead of
replacing the astral form replaces the conciousness of the victim with
that of the caster..the victim's mind is shunted into a void until the
spell is dropped..while the spell is in effect the caster may use not
only their own abilities and magic they are able to use the target's
special abilities and physical attributes...

> On the other hand, doingit like
>Anne Rice does in "The Tale of the Body Thief" seems perfectly reasonable
>........That says that the spirit has an affinity for its "Real" body,
>and you can't knock someone out of their body, but you can inhabit vacant
bodies
>and once there, it's hard to get you out if you don't want to leave...
>

Which is pretty much how I would run it..as I outlined above..

> A) You're opening things to a lot of abuse...


Not if you run it like I discribed above..If you cannot cast what is the
point...keeps those munchkins in their place but still allows the role
players their due...

> B) What you do to them, they can do to you...:)


Ah..but the meat has to be found first.....

> Why are things complicated?:)


What fun would things be if they were all easy???
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 9
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 13:39:03 -0700
> Actually there is a spell to accomplish this..It came out in a 5 part
> series in White Wolf Mag from '92-'93 in a NewOrleans
> sourcebook/adventure..And the whole thing seems to have been sanctioned
> by FASA...Of course the magic is all voodoo..Possesion instead of
> replacing the astral form replaces the conciousness of the victim with
> that of the caster..the victim's mind is shunted into a void until the
> spell is dropped..while the spell is in effect the caster may use not
> only their own abilities and magic they are able to use the target's
> special abilities and physical attributes...
>

IMHO the rules set forth in White wolf regarding voodoo are better than the
ones outlined in awakenings. I actually played a Houngan using the White
Wolf magazine rules and abandoned him because the voodoo personality didn't
fit me, but the rules were IMO workable and fair. And they added color.
Curious as to any others who may have used either set of rules, and what
they thought.

> >Anne Rice does in "The Tale of the Body Thief" seems perfectly
reasonable
> >........That says that the spirit has an affinity for its "Real" body,
> >and you can't knock someone out of their body, but you can inhabit
vacant
> bodies
> >and once there, it's hard to get you out if you don't want to leave...

One more danger for the astrally projecting mage?
Between this and that new astral viris I may never project again!!
<shudder> :)

> What fun would things be if they were all easy???

Good point <nodding vigorously>

Caric
Message no. 10
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 15:27:01 -0600 (MDT)
GRANITE wrote:
|
|However for the enterprising GM out there.....EVIL GM GRIN...A
|willful free spirit comes along and sees an empty body just lying
|there..Now why would anybody throw away a perfectly good body like that??
|the spirit says to itself..ANd jumps into the vacant body.....Oh and by
|the way I would apply the magic rating in months time limit for the mage
|to be out of his bod and then it's too late to go back time limit...

ROTFLOL :-D

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 11
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft) -Reply
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:33:00 +1000 (EST)
> The problem here is twofold.
>
> A) You're opening things to a lot of abuse...
>
> B) What you do to them, they can do to you...:)
>
> I prob wouldn't allow this in my game, in general, although the whole thing
> about the clone body and the ghost is part of my GM's world...

Hmmmm... interesting. When I saw that post about swapping bodies, the
first thing that came to *my* mind was voluntary swapping. :) IE two
party mages swapping bodies say, if one mage had a spell that was needed
in the location where the other mage was, just go astral and swap. :)

Of course, the whole thing raises big problems about which skills does
one retain in another body, and which skills does one gain from that body
(ie skills that the previous host knew)

Theoretically, allowing the bodyswap thing to be possible, some skills
would "go with you" when you went astral, and some would stay in your
body for the next person to use. :)



Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Clonal Technology (body theft)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:47:06 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Joker wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:
>
> > I've always seen it as "What they do to my NPC's - I WILL do to
> > them."
> >
>
> Hmmm, That mean I get to steal their weapon Focus, Rip off their Car
> and shoot all their friends? (Ohh and stop them from trying to save world
> too...? )
>
> Cool. :)

Craig...you aren't thinking of doing to me what I do to Kerri are you
*scared look*

Hamish, the curious...but not interested Scot *grin*


______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________

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