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Message no. 1
From: HEY KIDS <STU521299217@***.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: clones
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 03:04:29 CET
[[humm chummers....clones would make life more interesting (as if it wasent
interesting allready) but the prices are TOO LOW raise them or it will be
cheaper for the corps to grow shadow runners than higher them...]]
[[ dart ]]
Message no. 2
From: bellovar@***.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: clones
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 22:03:04 CST
> [[humm chummers....clones would make life more interesting (as if it wasent
> interesting allready) but the prices are TOO LOW raise them or it will be
> cheaper for the corps to grow shadow runners than higher them...]]
> [[ dart ]]


As a rule - I am just following bits of the replicant thread out of
curiousity, but I think that perhaps there is the fact that although
replicants just might be the best at doing whatever they are programmed
for - how often is it that little quick that saves the run when the
unexpected happens in the run. You simply cannot plan for every
contingency in a run, and it is these common unexpected in which
runners still rule.

On the other hand, at least they wouldn't have to doubt the veracity
of a replicant's words or wonder if he is trustable....

Chris Bellovary
-- CrossFire --

If I mentioned something already covered, you have my apologies.
Message no. 3
From: What ? <MCM@***.BRIGHTON.AC.UK>
Subject: Clones
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 18:33:00 BST
I think this has been talked (and shouted) over before, but here goes again.

Cloning body parts - these are exact to every detail.
Now, do Corps like Doc Wagon (or other shadowy places) actually grow whole
people to get the parts ?
Are these grown bodies spare parts or sentient beings ?
Would these clones have the knowledge of the original or would they have to
learn for themselves ?

I, myself think that they would have to be taught via tech stuff Skillwires,
and the like and learn from their own mistakes.

From cryptic notes in the shadowtalk of Shadowtech, I believe that cloning
is possible althought there is some problems thus it has hit the street.

If the cloned bodies have no sentience, what would happen if a insect shaman
used them as hosts ? Pretty nasty idea eh ?

I realise that many people believe this to be a form of continuous line of
Pc's thus the big M word. However I am interested in people's thoughts on
the subject rather than being told it can't happen.


Ta very much like.

-WHAT
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clones
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 12:51:17 -0500
On Wed, 15 Sep 1993, What ? wrote:

> I think this has been talked (and shouted) over before, but here goes again.
>
> Cloning body parts - these are exact to every detail.
> Now, do Corps like Doc Wagon (or other shadowy places) actually grow whole
> people to get the parts ?

Yes, this is stated in ShadowTech.

> Would these clones have the knowledge of the original or would they have to
> learn for themselves ?

I'd think they'd have a blank brain with nothing but purely instinctive
functions (how to breathe, how to eat, how to excrete, etc.)

> >From cryptic notes in the shadowtalk of Shadowtech, I believe that cloning
> is possible althought there is some problems thus it has hit the street.

Refer to the discussion on replicants from several months ago.

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ EARTH <]}
{[> \ /__ smog | bricks <]}
{[> aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu \/ / AIR -- mud -- FIRE <]}
{[> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu \/ beer | tequila <]}
-=-=- WATER -=-=-
GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 5
From: Daniel Waisley <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: CLones
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 14:57:16 -0700
Remember folks with clones they basically throw away a lot of thr body
becuase it ain't worth drek. They have to excelerate the aging of the body
part you want - they don't grow it from a small baby. SO this has GOT to play
havok on the rest of the body.

As for biulding a body from scratch with bioware included - well take a gander
at the shadowtech book and that ugly little monster that they created. The
body it a complicated organism - when you screw to much with one part - others
start to take notice and go hay-wire.

Daniel Waisley
Nightfox
Hey guys - did I do better with the format this time? fraggin' hard to
resist putting in all my normal tabs, spaces etc - still left the dashes though
Message no. 6
From: "Dylan Norhtup (PHY)" <northrup@*****.CAS.USF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clones
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 17:50:04 -0400
On Wed, 15 Sep 1993, What ? wrote:

> I think this has been talked (and shouted) over before, but here goes again.

Who knows? Who cares? Let's do it again!!! :)

> Cloning body parts - these are exact to every detail.
> Now, do Corps like Doc Wagon (or other shadowy places) actually grow whole
> people to get the parts ?

Yes. This is mentioned in Shadowtech in the Shadowtalk portion of the
Bioware section.

> Are these grown bodies spare parts or sentient beings ?

They are non-sentient. The bodies are forced to grow several times their
normal rate. This damages the brain as it doesn't like to be rushed. The
result is a lot of tissue and not a lot of philosopher. THis was touched
upon in the SR novel Streets of Blood.

> Would these clones have the knowledge of the original or would they have to
> learn for themselves ?

They would, if grown at the normal human rate, be able to learn whatever
they want for themselves. In the novel mentioned above there is a clone
that is forced to grow faster than normal (approximately 10 years to full
growth, but I am not sure on the exact figure). He was implanted with
skillwires and memory chips so that he acted like someone else. However,
this is expensive, and it does not give you an exact copy.

However, normal clones are not grown this way and hence do not have the
chance to achieve sentience. They are tissue, nothing else. THe parts
needed are used and the rest is recycled.

> If the cloned bodies have no sentience, what would happen if a insect shaman
> used them as hosts ? Pretty nasty idea eh ?

The link would probably be all wrong. Imagine the problems with someone's
aura who had been force grown and haad no mind? Now imagine the engine of
a Honda Civic that had been going 180kph for ten years without stopping.
Notice the similarities?

Ta,
Doc X
*****************************************************************************
* Witty Remark * Dylan Northrup <northrup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * This space *
* Here * (They finally spelled my name right!) * for rent *
*****************************************************************************
Message no. 7
From: Something wicked this way comes <MKNABUSCH@******.BITNET>
Subject: Clones
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 23:43:49 -0500
Hmmm. If wendigoes can run a funeral parlor (it saves *BIG TIME*
on burial expenses) then why can't bugs set up and run/manage a
clonal 'factory'. Ewww. Great idea for some runners I know.

"I'll take a large order of troll with a small dwarf on the side and
an order of elf ears to go with it."

"Regular price, four nuyen, four nuyen"

"Will that be take out or delivery?"

"Would you like that warmed up?" (in reference to the body)

Wendigo One: Hey Jake, wiggle that clone a little so grandpa thinks its
still living.

Harlequin
-Michael Knabusch
The above brought to you by Black Humor Inc., and the UB's new delivery plan.
Message no. 8
From: Something wicked this way comes <MKNABUSCH@******.BITNET>
Subject: Clones
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 22:45:00 -0500
Herr Dr. Doom,

While vampires may not feed off of these
bodies, is it possible for an Insect shaman to s
summon a spirit into the body?
Harlequin
Message no. 9
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clones
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:59:19 -0400
>Hate to tack it onto your post, but what do people think about clones. I'm
>thinking about making one. I figured you could grow it fast enough, to
>have a couple of you. Just a thought for an evil arch-nemesis. You know
>they kill him, think he's dead, and he shows up again at the most
>inoprotune times.

What do I think about clones? I think the world needs to accept that an
identical genotype is a far cry from an identical phenotype.

In said case, HE doesn't come back....there is just someone else who looks
similar with some similar habits....

This can be used to create an interesting plot (variations on the good
twin/bad twin theme.), but PLEASE, for the sake of beating this
media-induced craze, DON'T encourage people to think that a clone is the
SAME person.

<set Rant=Off>
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 10
From: "Mark E. Manhardt" <droopy@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Clones
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:42:29 +0000
> From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Clones

> In said case, HE doesn't come back....there is just someone else who looks
> similar with some similar habits....
>
> This can be used to create an interesting plot (variations on the good
> twin/bad twin theme.), but PLEASE, for the sake of beating this
> media-induced craze, DON'T encourage people to think that a clone is the
> SAME person.

You could brainwash the clone into thinking he is you.....I'm sure
some cyberware could be developed to allow you to exert a form of
control over the sap. In either case, the PLAYERS wouldn't know the
difference.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 11
From: Razors Edge. razrzedge@*****.com
Subject: Clones?
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
I am well aware that SR has cloning in it, but where
is it said that they have perfected the ability to
clone viable, living clones? I always thought they
used the gene tags to cause the clones to grow with
severe brain damage. Or that the force growth of the
body would have a destructive effect on brain
development.

My question comes up because viable/complete human
cloning would change the SR universe completely. A
corp has too few mages, not really. In Shadow Tech the
magus factor is a genetic trait. Why not whip up 200
based on a successful volunteer.

BTW, I am not talking about memory transfer or such
things. Even if the 200 mages were blank slates, they
could be taught Magic. And taught from the earliest
point of their life because they would be known to be
magical.

Magic is only one small area that is contentious. The
list is already talking about forensic and criminal
situations. Cloning is a huge issue for SR. Just like
it will be for us someday.




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