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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:07:15 -0400
On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, Martin Steffens wrote:

> with every melee weapon skill is more important than force, even with
> the European weapons.

Exactly. I agree completely.

> BTW, I liked your additions to the tactics-file (already had
> the original), but I have one question.
> Do you build a complete setting for every combat and use
> miniatures?

No, I usually just sketch a map to show where stuff is. Often
times, that's not even necessary. Actually, dice make good miniatures
because the number showing on the die can indicate that character's
condition (except for the fact that the players can see it too, but
that's not usually a problem.)
The trick in using simple maps and sketches to describe an area
in a good amount of detail not in the scetch but in the decription of
the area. If you can form a mental picture in your mind and accurately
convey it to your players, their mental picture will make up for the
areas where the map lacks. It's also easier to describe something than
it is to draw it (at least for me).

> Most of the time I simply make a simple drawing of
> the situation, but then the tactics aren't that obvious (i.e.
> most sec-goons die in 3 seconds :).

You're most of the way there if you're drawing maps. But like I
said, the important part is forming a clear mental picture in your mind.
And if you have trouble doing that, use locales that you are familiar
with. Case in point: In a recent encounter the runners were going to
hit another group of runners who had holed-up in a partially burned-down
stuffer shack on a nondescript corner deep in suburbia. That setting
exactly mirrored the Dairy-Mart on the corner of 36th street and Byron
Center road in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a place where we used to buy two
liters of mountain dew and loiter for hours in the middle of the night
when I was in high school. My familiarity with the area allowed me to
form an excellent mental picture in my mind, so pretty much no matter
what the players had done, I would have been able to describe their
surroundings in detail. Had they retreated kitty-corner across the
intersection, they would have wound up in an elementary school.
So as you can see, drawing from your own locales, you can easily
get the level of detail needed to make the difference. As you do this
more and more, you'll get good at actually making up settings as if you
were there. Then when the players do something screwy (like run away and
take cover in an elementary school) you'll be ready for it because you
have a picture in your mind. Describe the new picture to them and go
from there. You'll be surprised at how much a carefully described
setting will add to a hastily drawn sketch.

> I'm a lazy GM...

Me too. I don't draw the maps until absolutely necessary. Half
the time the players move somewhere off the map anyway.

> but if you can really prolong firefights to 3 minutes I would love to
> hear how you stage your battles so I can play them in this
> way, because firefights in SR have been a thorn in my side for
> a long time.

Part of the length of combat is something that most people
forget, and that's combat hesitation. After a brief and messy exchange
of fire, there are certain situations where everyone will be laying low,
thinking to themselves, "fuckfuckfuckfuck", where people will be saying,
"They just greased sarge. What're we gonna do?" These hesitations also
add to player paranoia, because they don't know how long they're going to
last. Do you have enough time to change clips? Do you have enough time
to change position and get better cover, or will you get caught in the
open? And if the pause lasts too long, they get suspicious that they
are getting slowly surrounded, and then the panic really starts. Soon,
players themselves will be the cause of these hesitations, as they see
the merit in the fact that they can elect to not pursue their quarry into
the building immediately and take a few seconds to refresh their weapons
and plan a bit whilst under cover. These hesitations can cause adverse
effects as well. The guy with the Adrenal Pump II doesn't want to wait
any longer than he has to, or he'll come down hard.
Keeping things like these in mind makes combat more realistic and
gives people the time to do what they would be doing in a normal combat
stiuation anyway. Combat hesitation will account anywhere from most to
none of the combat time depending on the situation. More highly trained
opponents will hesitate less than untrained or inexperienced foes. And
it's that uncertainty that will keep the players guessing.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:40:46 +0200
> So as you can see, drawing from your own locales, you can easily
>get the level of detail needed to make the difference.

We Europeans have a slight problem here, I think I should point out... If my
players somehow end up in a high school, and I use the one I went to as a
reference for myself, they're in a high school that's suspiciously
Dutch-looking, but somehow manages to appears in Seattle... Maybe another
good advice is to watch American tv shows and steal from that.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
WANNEER HOUDT DIE KLOTE HITTE NOU EENS OP?!?!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 3
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 02:33:31 BST
Marc :-
> The guy with the Adrenal Pump II doesn't want to wait
> any longer than he has to, or he'll come down hard.

Ya know, it's not tooo bad coming down from an adrenal pump buzz..
one of my players has a really big troll with trauma dampers,
and so he only needs 6 successes to ignore the pump's "drain".

Not to mention the fact that you can turn the thing off with a
willpower(6) check...or is that a loose interpretation of the
option to resisit it's activiation? Hm.., the more I think about
it... shit :-(

But, You do need to note that he can only use the adrenal pump
once per encounter or fight, so he does need to get the
most from it during the early seconds of the combat,
after all the longets the things lasts four is about half a minute.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 12:28:37 +0200
>Not to mention the fact that you can turn the thing off with a
>willpower(6) check...or is that a loose interpretation of the
>option to resisit it's activiation? Hm.., the more I think about
>it... shit :-(

My character used to have an adrenal pump level 1, but I had it chopped out
because I hated that stun damage. With a Willpower of 4, every time the damn
thing flips on you take at least Moderate Stun and often Serious :(
It's got to be one of the worst over-balanced pieces of equipment in the
book, IMHO.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
WANNEER HOUDT DIE KLOTE HITTE NOU EENS OP?!?!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 15:27:00 -0500
>
> >Not to mention the fact that you can turn the thing off with a
> >willpower(6) check...or is that a loose interpretation of the
> >option to resisit it's activiation? Hm.., the more I think about
> >it... shit :-(
>
> My character used to have an adrenal pump level 1, but I had it chopped out
> because I hated that stun damage. With a Willpower of 4, every time the damn
> thing flips on you take at least Moderate Stun and often Serious :(
> It's got to be one of the worst over-balanced pieces of equipment in the
> book, IMHO.
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

Willpower is for activating it without injury or drugs or having it not
activate in a circumstance it normaly would. The stun is resisted with Body,
Which is just as bad from a balnce POV, except that folks with AP's tend to
have big bodys. By the way, has anyone evr coupled a ap2 with a pain editor
for will +3 and done some real spirit stomping?
Seb@***.ripco.com
Message no. 6
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:34:03 BST
Seb :-
> Willpower is for activating it without injury or drugs or having it not
> activate in a circumstance it normaly would.

Yeah, come to think of it, that's probably the correct interpretation,
unfortunately we've been allowing PC's using willpower to clamp it off early
as well...

IMHO The damage taken from a Pump is described as drain, so you can use
willpower or body, but in most cases, body is much better...

Put in the trauma damper, on an orc or troll, and walk round with an
adrenal pump and laugh :-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 7
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Combat Hesitation
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:57:48 -0400
Seb wrote:

>have big bodys. By the way, has anyone evr coupled a ap2 with a pain editor
>for will +3 and done some real spirit stomping?


Ya a chummer of mine did just this worked pretty well as I recall (he kept
getting hit with full auto bursts though, you know "Shoot the fast moving one
first!!").

Duke Rogue Dragon

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