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Message no. 1
From: "Jamie Keane (Screaming In Digital)" <chemlab@*******.NET>
Subject: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:05:06 -0500
(First and foremost, a sincere apology for not trimming down my quoted text
earlier. What was I thinking? :) )

Here are some thoughts and comments about some of the new rules in the
Shadowrun Companion, mostly centered around character creation. Pardon me
if some of these seem a tad obvious, but I think they need to be said
nonetheless.

* If you don't mind a little extra development time, definitely go with the
point-based system for character creation. It's much more flexible than
the priority-based system in the Big Black Book.

* If you're pressed for time, you can use the priority-based system, but
use this mod to make sure that the magicians created in either system are
on equal footing: let the Resources priority handle only nuyen, not force
points (I always thought that lumping force with nuyen was a little funny
anyway). Instead, give magicians a flat allocation of 30 force points,
like in the point-based system.

* Due to their supposed rarity in SR, don't let the characters start with
magic weapons. Standard foci, yes, but magic weapons just seem a bit too
exotic to start with (besides, they're so bloomin' expensive!).

* If you really want to keep the characters in need of nuyen (thus
interested in running the shadows), use the Contact Upkeep rules (pp.
62-63) and the SOTA rules (pp. 85-87). It's not a complete cure-all, but
it helps if the characters always end up with way too much nuyen (I've seen
campaigns ruined because of that far too many times to want to recall).

Anyway, that's a start.

Jamie
Message no. 2
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:00:07 +0000
> * If you're pressed for time, you can use the priority-based system, but
> use this mod to make sure that the magicians created in either system are
> on equal footing: let the Resources priority handle only nuyen, not force
> points (I always thought that lumping force with nuyen was a little funny
> anyway). Instead, give magicians a flat allocation of 30 force points,
> like in the point-based system.

You forget one thing... in the point based system they can spend
points to raise there force.. I know every one of my players would
revolt if I did it like you recommend...

*wave*

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:28:47 -0500
Jamie Keane wrote,
>* If you really want to keep the characters in need of nuyen (thus
>interested in running the shadows), use the Contact Upkeep rules (pp.
>62-63) and the SOTA rules (pp. 85-87). It's not a complete cure-all, but
>it helps if the characters always end up with way too much nuyen (I've seen
>campaigns ruined because of that far too many times to want to recall).
I don't beleive in the way the Contact upkeep is handled. IRL I know
a lot of people in a lot of different carreers. I can get general
information from these casual contacts with just a phone call. If I need
more than detailed information or help then I am obliged to offer
something in return. That is the way the it should have been handled. I
guess they wanted a simple (a way too expensive for the contact level)
way of handling it. And why does the freind of a friend give your contact
better contacts than you do. Contacts need to be worked out more but this
was poorly executed.
SOTA has magic as a catagory. Is there something about magic in
Shadowrun I've missed lately? If you want access to new metamagic sure,
that's fine, but the force 5 spell that worked yesterday is still going
to be cast as a force 5 spell tomorrow no matter the SOTA. And would SOTA
ever apply to shamans? Does Dog no longer answer your calls unless you
upgrade to Dog 2.0?

- MC23, who wonders why only he sees these holes in the SRC on the list -
Message no. 4
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 13:41:36 +0000
[snip]
> I don't beleive in the way the Contact upkeep is handled. IRL I know
> a lot of people in a lot of different carreers. I can get general
> information from these casual contacts with just a phone call. If I need
> more than detailed information or help then I am obliged to offer
> something in return. That is the way the it should have been handled.
Hehehe... Yeah, sure. "hey, Bill, which way do I have rto turn a screw
to loosen it?" - "Which shop had the nes SR books?" - I agree, here the
price as suggested by The SR Companion would be rather high. But who of
your "lot of people" can sell you an illegal gun? Who will organize you
large quantities of hard drugs? Or would talk to you about the
structures of organized crime, maybe even naming names?

Sorry, but I do not think we talk about the same. I do not think you
know the people your Runners would, nor would I. In fact, I wouldn't
_want_ to, the people who are near that are dangerous enough.

[snip]
> And why does the freind of a friend give your contact
> better contacts than you do. Contacts need to be worked out more but this
> was poorly executed.
As far as I know, this is exactly how "shadowy" (read: Illegal) deals
are done. To know someone who might know someone who has what is
wanted.
Message no. 5
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:29:37 -0500
Sascha Pabst,
>Hehehe... Yeah, sure. "hey, Bill, which way do I have rto turn a screw
>to loosen it?" - "Which shop had the nes SR books?" - I agree, here the
>price as suggested by The SR Companion would be rather high. But who of
>your "lot of people" can sell you an illegal gun? Who will organize you
>large quantities of hard drugs? Or would talk to you about the
>structures of organized crime, maybe even naming names?
>
>Sorry, but I do not think we talk about the same. I do not think you
>know the people your Runners would, nor would I. In fact, I wouldn't
>_want_ to, the people who are near that are dangerous enough

You'd be surprised by what the people I know could do for me. I've
never had any dealings with organized crime (I don'tr think there really
is any in this town besides the government) but I know enough ex-military
and other "gun-nuts" (they hate that term B>]#) to get any firearm I want
and I've been involved with the "underground culture/counter-culture
scene" so long now that getting drugs or other shady deals would be hard
to do. Welcome to America. B>]#
I do feel the need now to clarify that I, myself do not own any
firearms (I'd be too tempted to use it B>]#) and I don't use drugs (I
hate prescription medicine) but I will admit to being a social drinker.
I'm sure this added information about myself now sounds unbelievable or
describes me unflattering terms but that is part of my friends and where
some of my interests lies (or crosses with others of the more criminal
type).
As one of our list members put it. "I see why Shadowrun was written
in America" - paraphrased.

>As far as I know, this is exactly how "shadowy" (read: Illegal) deals
>are done. To know someone who might know someone who has what is
>wanted.

I could easily follow up and any leads I have and this knowledge
doesn't cost me anything. Knowledge is power not money.

- MC23, who doesn't think he knows any hit men, but is unsure -
B;>]# (and I don't want to know the answer either)
Message no. 6
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:03:14 +0000
On 16 Feb 97 at 11:29, MC23 wrote:
[snip]
> >As far as I know, this is exactly how "shadowy" (read: Illegal) deals
> >are done. To know someone who might know someone who has what is
> >wanted.
>
> I could easily follow up and any leads I have and this knowledge
> doesn't cost me anything. Knowledge is power not money.
To my knowledge, the financial aspect is meant to cover time, money,
calls, meets, presents, "here, have a ticket"s, etc, not just "may I
bribe you?".

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |'The rich control |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| The Government, |
| \___ __/ | | The Media, |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | And the Law!' |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - Queensryche |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 03:24:50 +0000
> From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
> Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> price as suggested by The SR Companion would be rather high. But who of
> your "lot of people" can sell you an illegal gun? Who will organize you
> large quantities of hard drugs? Or would talk to you about the
> structures of organized crime, maybe even naming names?

It depends upon the circles you run in and the favors you can pull.
I doubt that I will go the nuyen route for contacts since my "You owe
me your ass, chummer!" method works really well for setting up future
runs as well as keeping the players in line. It's also 100%
realistic.

> Sorry, but I do not think we talk about the same. I do not think you
> know the people your Runners would, nor would I. In fact, I wouldn't
> _want_ to, the people who are near that are dangerous enough.

You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
friend's friend away.

> > And why does the freind of a friend give your contact
> > better contacts than you do. Contacts need to be worked out more but this
> > was poorly executed.
> As far as I know, this is exactly how "shadowy" (read: Illegal) deals
> are done. To know someone who might know someone who has what is
> wanted.

Yes, they often times are. If you are lucky, you can cultivate the
second friend into a primary contact. Once you are in the loop,
however, you become the friend with friends. Run it both ways in
your game and see how much fun you can have with it.

BTW, this applies to all ways of life from the homeless to the
military and even in business. Who your people know can make the
difference.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 8
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:21:58 +1100
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Droopy wrote:

SNIP!
>
> You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
> that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
> everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
> friend's friend away.

That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless of
course, you count white-collar crims.

Snip the rest!

Shaman
_________________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In Neo-Arch Real Life: Shaman

Neurological problems 101:
Kluver-Bucy Syndrome.
Occurs with the bilateral removal of the temporal lobe,
including amygdala.
Symptoms: Overattentiveness, hyperorality, psychic
blindness, hypersexuality, absense of emotional response.
_________________________________________________________
Message no. 9
From: "M. Gotthard" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:09:43 +1000
> >
> > You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
> > that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
> > everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
> > friend's friend away.
>
> That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
> I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless of
> course, you count white-collar crims.
>
Depends who you talk to, Calvin.... I know a few guys in for Armed
Robbery and Manslaughter.... not too bad for three years out of school.

Of course, I wouldn't call them friends.....

Bleach.
Message no. 10
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:45:22 -0800
On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Calvin Hsieh wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Droopy wrote:
>
> SNIP!
> >
> > You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
> > that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
> > everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
> > friend's friend away.
>
> That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
> I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless of
> course, you count white-collar crims.

No? But what about people that you sort of know, who know people, etc.?
Or people you went to school with that you could still call..?

>
> Shaman

~Tim
Message no. 11
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:29:36 +0000
On 18 Feb 97 at 16:45, Tim Cooper wrote:
[snip]
> No? But what about people that you sort of know, who know people, etc.?
> Or people you went to school with that you could still call..?
How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
anything dangerous, or important?

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |I don't believe in love,|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ |I never have, / I never |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de |will, / I don't believe |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| in love / it's never |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me |worth the pain you feel |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----Queensryche-+
Message no. 12
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:51:59 +1100
On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, M. Gotthard wrote:

> > >
> > > You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
> > > that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
> > > everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
> > > friend's friend away.
> >
> > That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
> > I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless
of
> > course, you count white-collar crims.
> >
> Depends who you talk to, Calvin.... I know a few guys in for Armed
> Robbery and Manslaughter.... not too bad for three years out of school.
>
> Of course, I wouldn't call them friends.....

What is this? Have I lived such a sheltered life? At least I don't think
I have. I'd like to think that way... No! I have lived a sheltered life.
Oh, can I ever be forgiven, repent in my sins...

Shaman

_________________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In Neo-Arch Real Life: Shaman

Neurological problems 101:
Kluver-Bucy Syndrome.
Occurs with the bilateral removal of the temporal lobe,
including amygdala.
Symptoms: Overattentiveness, hyperorality, psychic
blindness, hypersexuality, absense of emotional response.
_________________________________________________________
Message no. 13
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:49:19 -0500
Sascha Pabst wrote,
>How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
>major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
>next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
>anything dangerous, or important?
From school, not many. Of all the people I've met since then, a lot.
I'm sorry you don't seem to believe me but that is life in America. I
know a lot of people in a lot of different areas. I don't live a
sheltered life.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:55:09 +0100
Sascha Pabst said on 4:29/19 Feb 97...

> How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
> major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
> next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
> anything dangerous, or important?

Maybe not immediately, but I'm pretty sure that most people would be able
to get in touch with real criminals (not just someone who once stole a few
cans of Coke) without all that much trouble. The main obstacle, I think,
is convincing whoever has the connections that you're serious about this.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you'll need me, I'll be nowhere.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:20:32 +0000
On 19 Feb 97 at 11:55, Gurth wrote:
[snip getting criminal contacts]
> Maybe not immediately, but I'm pretty sure that most people would be able
> to get in touch with real criminals (not just someone who once stole a few
> cans of Coke) without all that much trouble. The main obstacle, I think,
> is convincing whoever has the connections that you're serious about this.
And to prove you are trustworthy, and not to draw the attention of
local police, not be taken as bait, and not be robbed or tricked...

I said it before, I repeat it: RL thugs are not to be joked with. Keep
ya collective fingers off as much as possible. Having contacts there
can bring you as much trouble as benefits.

I do know some people with... dubious background, and I also do know
some police officers, and sometimes its a VERY narrow path.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 16
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:47:44 -0700
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Droopy wrote:
>> I'm sure that
>> everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
>> friend's friend away.

LOL....Any particular crime class you would perfer???I can find just
about any of them in less than 40 sec...Sorry..I happen to be in a
jail at this very moment...Don't get the wrong idea.. I work behind
the desk... :)

>That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims,
>and

You would truely be surprised at who around you and their parents have
a record of some sort.. In the county I live in there are 10,000 plus
outstanding warrents...Just to give you a small idea.. Of course that
ranges from "Dog At Large" warrents..to the heavy felonies...

>I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless
>of course, you count white-collar crims.

All criminals count...And unless you have grown up with those
folks..It is next to impossible to vouch for them in this way..I for
one would be very asshamed of any jail time I had spent behind bars
and would not reveal the matter to anyone...Fortunately My record is
clean..For the most part.. ;)
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 17
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 22:01:28 -0600
On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Sascha Pabst said on 4:29/19 Feb 97...
>
> > How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
> > major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
> > next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
> > anything dangerous, or important?
>
> Maybe not immediately, but I'm pretty sure that most people would be able
> to get in touch with real criminals (not just someone who once stole a few
> cans of Coke) without all that much trouble. The main obstacle, I think,
> is convincing whoever has the connections that you're serious about it.

I agree... I have a
friend who knows some "not quite honest" people, these are the
boderline criminals, who could get me in touch with the real baddies. It
kinda works on a spiral principal, where Mr. G. Goodie sits on the top and
Mr. B. Bad is at the bottom. Most runners are some where at the bottom (at
least some (st etiquett) others can be somewere at the top (no st
etiquett). Now if one of my characters is looking for someone or a certen
TYPE of someone, Mr. B. Bad lets say, and he has st etiquette i let him
roll it BEFORE he calls or such because he himself might have heard about
this person just while on the streets, but if he has no st etiquette i
make him maka a call to a fixer or someone else, hey thats what fixers are
for.

Czar-who-is-wadeing-threw-230-Emails-Eggbert
Message no. 18
From: "M. Gotthard" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:01:06 +1000
> > No? But what about people that you sort of know, who know people, etc.?
> > Or people you went to school with that you could still call..?
>
> How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
> major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
> next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
> anything dangerous, or important?
>

Not many people that I went to school with qualify, I 'll grant you.... but
I've met a few people at University that are well-connected in the
department, and willing to pass that info on if it furthers their aims..

.... Burn baby, burn

(insider joke for Lady J. and Guardian)

Bleach
Message no. 19
From: "M. Gotthard" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:03:47 +1000
> > Depends who you talk to, Calvin.... I know a few guys in for Armed
> > Robbery and Manslaughter.... not too bad for three years out of school.
> >
> > Of course, I wouldn't call them friends.....
>
> What is this? Have I lived such a sheltered life? At least I don't think
> I have. I'd like to think that way... No! I have lived a sheltered life.
> Oh, can I ever be forgiven, repent in my sins...
>

*grin* It also depends where you grew up.... I've lived in Bondi, and
most of the guys I knew there have been in trouble for small things like
drugs. I've also lived in Marsden (the Brisbane Equiv. of say,
Marrickville), and that's where the Armed Robbery and other stuff comes
from.

Hell, I've had a few unpleasant run-ins with the rough side of the law
myself as a juvenile. Trick is, I've learnt... and I want to go
somewhere with my life... the rest of the guys don't.

Bleach
Message no. 20
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:01:34 +0000
> From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
> Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> > No? But what about people that you sort of know, who know people, etc.?
> > Or people you went to school with that you could still call..?
> How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
> major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
> next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
> anything dangerous, or important?

You'd be suprised how many of your classmates know somebody. I
graduated from a suburban high school in a nice area and I can name
at least a dozen people off the top of my head that could. Now I
live in a not so nice area and can come up with many more people.

Inside information on major corporations? I'm sure that someone you
went to school with has gone to work for a major corporation. If
you're old enough, that is. <G>


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 21
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:01:34 +0000
> From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> > You are likely right with the gaming crowd, but you'd be suprised who
> > that banker with the crack habit knows in a pinch. I'm sure that
> > everybody here can find a hardened criminal no further than a
> > friend's friend away.
>
> That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
> I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless of
> course, you count white-collar crims.

None? Or none that you know of? White collar crime can cause
more havok than the nastiest street violence, so don't count that
out. Your average white collar criminal will usually have some
harsher contacts, as well.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 22
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:39:07 -0500
>You'd be suprised how many of your classmates know somebody. I
>graduated from a suburban high school in a nice area and I can name
>at least a dozen people off the top of my head that could. Now I
>live in a not so nice area and can come up with many more people.
>
>Inside information on major corporations? I'm sure that someone you
>went to school with has gone to work for a major corporation. If
>you're old enough, that is. <G>

I think the whole point has been missed the point of these contacts and the
upkeep rules is to bring in the idea that thses people are known to the
charcter directly and may be willing to do something if it suits them or the
right price. The circumstances are friends of friends who probably wouldn't
give you the time of day if your life depended on it. Besides who said that
the upkeep was one lump payment it could merely represnt the cost of going
out to coffee, dinner, the movies, LD phone calls, etc... and thats what it
costs a year to keep the relationship alive and viable.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 23
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 21:32:58 +1100
At 11:55 AM 19/02/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Sascha Pabst said on 4:29/19 Feb 97...
>
>> How many of the people you went to school with would tell you about
>> major drug dealers, weapon dealers, killers, inside information on the
>> next police raid, inside information on major corporations, ...
>> anything dangerous, or important?
>
>Maybe not immediately, but I'm pretty sure that most people would be able
>to get in touch with real criminals (not just someone who once stole a few
>cans of Coke) without all that much trouble. The main obstacle, I think,
>is convincing whoever has the connections that you're serious about this.

Has anyone thought of how to deal with situations where the PCs just walk
into an area where some particular 'sort' of persons exist, and hoping that
they bump into someone? For example, going to an area known to be controlled
by the Yaks so that you could get some info and maybe gain a contact?

Shaman

_______________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In ShadowRun: Shaman

"Strange are the times we live in.
Stranger are the times we are to live.
But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
- Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
________________________________________________________
Message no. 24
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:50:17 +0000
On 20 Feb 97 at 21:32, Calvin Hsieh wrote:
[snip]
> Has anyone thought of how to deal with situations where the PCs just walk
> into an area where some particular 'sort' of persons exist, and hoping that
> they bump into someone? For example, going to an area known to be controlled
> by the Yaks so that you could get some info and maybe gain a contact?
Hm... as a 'gaijin'? Or as a Japanese?

Apart from that specific example, it again (as with the "real life
contact"-discussion) boils down to trust. For the people you are
meeting, you might as well be a ploice plant, or someone planning to
rip 'em off. Getting to know someone might be easy, but getting stuff
or infos will be a lot harder. And much more expensive, as your "new
contacts" will need to "compensate the risk".

OTOH, by the statements from the Americans on this list, things may be
_way_ different on their side of the pond...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 25
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:21:34 +1100
At 02:01 AM 20/02/97 +0000, you wrote:

<Snip>

>> That close?!?! You're asking for a miracle. I do not know any crims, and
>> I can vouch that none of my "primary" level friends do either. Unless
of
>> course, you count white-collar crims.
>
>None? Or none that you know of? White collar crime can cause
>more havok than the nastiest street violence, so don't count that
>out. Your average white collar criminal will usually have some
>harsher contacts, as well.

Sorry, maybe I should have made myself more clear. I'm not referring to
hardened white-collar crims. I'm was thinking more like people stealing
office furniture, occassionally cheating a bit (tweaking) their taxes, and
people using their office a/c's and time to answer mail at ShadowRN. :)

Shaman
_______________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In ShadowRun: Shaman

"Strange are the times we live in.
Stranger are the times we are to live.
But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
- Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
________________________________________________________
Message no. 26
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 08:21:37 +1100
At 02:01 AM 20/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
>> Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
>> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
>
<Snip>

>You'd be suprised how many of your classmates know somebody. I
>graduated from a suburban high school in a nice area and I can name
>at least a dozen people off the top of my head that could. Now I
>live in a not so nice area and can come up with many more people.

Does this include classmates that I don't talk to, see or otherwise like? I
mean, I agree that if we broaden our search parameters, I will find someone.
But I'm referring to those people who will willingly refer you to a
friend/crim for some 'help' or contact-like info.

>Inside information on major corporations? I'm sure that someone you
>went to school with has gone to work for a major corporation. If
>you're old enough, that is. <G>

You're right there. The first batch of my friends to graduate from Uni will
do so this year.

Shaman

_______________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In ShadowRun: Shaman

"Strange are the times we live in.
Stranger are the times we are to live.
But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
- Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
________________________________________________________
Message no. 27
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:04:22 +0000
> From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> Has anyone thought of how to deal with situations where the PCs just walk
> into an area where some particular 'sort' of persons exist, and hoping that
> they bump into someone? For example, going to an area known to be controlled
> by the Yaks so that you could get some info and maybe gain a contact?

Yep. It's a waste of time. You get contacts by your actions, not by
being a the bus stop when someone else happens to be waiting for the
bus.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 28
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:04:22 +0000
> From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
> Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> rip 'em off. Getting to know someone might be easy, but getting stuff
> or infos will be a lot harder. And much more expensive, as your "new
> contacts" will need to "compensate the risk".

I agree completely with this, but I doubt that anyone would touch you
untill you could prove that you are trustworthy. Not an easy thing
considering how paranoid the prospective contact is likely to be.

> OTOH, by the statements from the Americans on this list, things may be
> _way_ different on their side of the pond...

Not really, you can go your entire life here and never knowingly meet
a criminal. OTOH, you can find out your best friend spends his
weekends knocking off banks. It's not much different here, there's
just more freedom which unfortunately translates to more crime among
other things.

There's also a question of degree here. A guy may sell you an
illegal handgun knowing that you may kill somebody with it, maybe
even knowing that's what you want it for. This same guy may not ever
imagine killing someone himself. He's still wrong, but to a
different degree.


--Droopy

droopy@**.net
Message no. 29
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:04:22 +0000
> From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> right price. The circumstances are friends of friends who probably wouldn't
> give you the time of day if your life depended on it. Besides who said that

I dunno, I'd help out a friend's friend, course they'd both owe me
one.

> the upkeep was one lump payment it could merely represnt the cost of going
> out to coffee, dinner, the movies, LD phone calls, etc... and thats what it
> costs a year to keep the relationship alive and viable.

That's why I don't use this system. If you wanna use a contact, you
deal with it then. Besides, as I said before I like the "You owe me
one" system much better.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 30
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:13:57 -0500
>Apart from that specific example, it again (as with the "real life
>contact"-discussion) boils down to trust. For the people you are
>meeting, you might as well be a ploice plant, or someone planning to
>rip 'em off. Getting to know someone might be easy, but getting stuff
>or infos will be a lot harder. And much more expensive, as your "new
>contacts" will need to "compensate the risk".
>
>OTOH, by the statements from the Americans on this list, things may be
>_way_ different on their side of the pond...

I don't know what the others think, but what you said makes perfect sense to
me. In such an area it would be easier to find someone, but getting them to
trust you is a much tougher deal. You could "do business", but not "get a
contact". Contacts come only after extended working together.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 31
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 06:56:23 +0000
> From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Re: comments re: Shadowrun Companion rule mods

> Does this include classmates that I don't talk to, see or otherwise like? I
> mean, I agree that if we broaden our search parameters, I will find someone.
> But I'm referring to those people who will willingly refer you to a
> friend/crim for some 'help' or contact-like info.

I wasn't thinking of those people. Heck, I hated almost everybody in
HS, even skipped my 10yr reunion last year, but I could dig up some
decent contacts from those people. It just takes a little time and
effort. I do for you, you do for me kinda stuff.


--Droopy
Geez, my age is showing.
droopy@**.net

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