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Message no. 1
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Companion and Math
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:29:24 -0500
Another one of those many things that bugged me about the Companion.
p.76 Awarding Karma: A Clarification, the example they give is for the
wrong math. If 90% of Karma earned is good Karma then out of ten points 9
would be good karma and the tenth would go to the Karma pool. Their
example is 10 goes to good Karma and the eleventh goes to the pool.
Sounds more like a confusion than a clarification.
Because you are starting to expect this from me now;
<RANT,snip,RANT>
Thank you.

-MC23, making it short
Message no. 2
From: "Mark R. Terilli" <mrtgroo@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:55:21 -0500
At 06:29 PM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Another one of those many things that bugged me about the Companion.
> p.76 Awarding Karma: A Clarification, the example they give is for the
>wrong math. If 90% of Karma earned is good Karma then out of ten points 9
>would be good karma and the tenth would go to the Karma pool. Their
>example is 10 goes to good Karma and the eleventh goes to the pool.
>Sounds more like a confusion than a clarification.
> Because you are starting to expect this from me now;
><RANT,snip,RANT>
> Thank you.
>
>-MC23, making it short

Hey MC23,
Maybe if you get over your ranting. everyone else will too.
just thinking
Mark terilli
Message no. 3
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:01:30 -0500
In a message dated 1/8/97 11:33:21 PM, MC23 wrote:

> Another one of those many things that bugged me about the Companion.
> p.76 Awarding Karma: A Clarification, the example they give is for the
>wrong math. If 90% of Karma earned is good Karma then out of ten points 9
>would be good karma and the tenth would go to the Karma pool. Their
>example is 10 goes to good Karma and the eleventh goes to the pool.
>Sounds more like a confusion than a clarification.

This is the rule. And in my tenure at FASA was THE most asked Shadowrun
question. It was so inclear in SR2, that I made sure it was put here. I
badgered Tom Dowd long enough for him to sit down and explain how he felt
karma should be awarded. This is the result. I will be how karma is handled
in SR from now on.


Have Fun!
Play Games!
Don't Eat Yellow Snow!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 4
From: Brett Barksdale <brett@***.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:12:29 -0800
>This is the rule. And in my tenure at FASA was THE most asked Shadowrun
>question. It was so inclear in SR2, that I made sure it was put here. I
>badgered Tom Dowd long enough for him to sit down and explain how he felt
>karma should be awarded. This is the result. I will be how karma is handled
>in SR from now on.

Or not. :-)

Karma Pool is a total waste, anyway. It is /entirely/ too large of a
crutch for the players and the GM. Anytime players have the ability to
artifically affect the outcome of dice rolls, it makes for much less
tension in games (when the karma pool grows too big) and creates a lot
of artificial situations.

Beginning shadowrun GMs, take my advice: DON'T USE KARMA POOLS. Just give
it all to your players as good karma (i.e. "experience points") and take
the time to carefully develop your world and adventures so you /don't/
need karma pools to make everything "all right". If they screw up, let the
dice fall where they may. A shadowrun game without the very real chance of
death - even when the character(s) /don't/ screw-up - is a waste, in my
opinion. No tension = lame cyberpunk genre.

- Brett
Message no. 5
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:30:53 -0500
Mike Mulvihill (FASA) replied,
>In a message dated 1/8/97 11:33:21 PM, MC23 wrote:
>
>> Another one of those many things that bugged me about the Companion.
>> p.76 Awarding Karma: A Clarification, the example they give is for the
>>wrong math. If 90% of Karma earned is good Karma then out of ten points 9
>>would be good karma and the tenth would go to the Karma pool. Their
>>example is 10 goes to good Karma and the eleventh goes to the pool.
>>Sounds more like a confusion than a clarification.
>
>This is the rule. And in my tenure at FASA was THE most asked Shadowrun
>question. It was so inclear in SR2, that I made sure it was put here.

I understand why it was included, but not the math is wrong?

>I badgered Tom Dowd long enough for him to sit down and explain how he
>felt karma should be awarded. This is the result. I will be how karma is
>handled in SR from now on.

So is this more of a change in awards or FASA's bad mathamatical
skills? Having a strong background in math I was never confused. Now we
have this counter example of how to do it and it upsets me greatly.

- MC23, pacing around with a pent-up RANT! -
Message no. 6
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:11:25 -0800
MC23 wrote:
>
> Mike Mulvihill (FASA) replied,
> >I badgered Tom Dowd long enough for him to sit down and explain how he
> >felt karma should be awarded. This is the result. I will be how karma is
> >handled in SR from now on.

Perhaps :)
>
> So is this more of a change in awards or FASA's bad mathamatical
> skills? Having a strong background in math I was never confused. Now we
> have this counter example of how to do it and it upsets me greatly.
>

You want wierd interpretations My Gm took it a little too litteraly and
would give use 2.7 good karma and .3 karma pool or similar. As for me I
also never had a problem grasping the concept, and I don't have a strong
background in math (I got a C in math for non-math majors, hey it's all
I needed).
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:53:31 +0100
Mike Mulvihill (FASA) said on 18:01/13 Jan 97...

[90% of karma or 10+1?]
> This is the rule. And in my tenure at FASA was THE most asked Shadowrun
> question. It was so inclear in SR2, that I made sure it was put here.

This surprises me, to be honest. Th only thing I found confusing about the
rule (at first) was whether the Karma Pool should be equal to 10% of the
total Karma earned, or if 10% of every Karma award (rounded up) shiuld go
into the Karma Pool. This last one seriously increases the KP, so I
decided that couldn't be what the rules meant... Maybe not everyone is
good enough at maths to figure out how much 10% of something is :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vliegen met die hap!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:48:45 -0500
In a message dated 1/13/97 11:50:21 PM, MC23 wrote:

> So is this more of a change in awards or FASA's bad mathamatical
>skills? Having a strong background in math I was never confused. Now we
>have this counter example of how to do it and it upsets me greatly.

Since I have a stack of over 250 letters that question the rule, I guess you
are the one person who understood it. It makes more sense to me to fix a rule
(if I can) that causes so many problems than to only have MC23 as the one
person who figures it out and frankly I bet your "interpretation of the rule"
is differnet than others on the board. So in order to make things simple I
created a new and different rule: simple to figure out, good expample, works
just as well. And I don't go around insulting people who didn't understand
it. Hey, I'm a hero! :-)

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Stay Warm!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 9
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math -Reply
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:03:04 -0500
>So in order to make things simple I created a new and different rule: simple to
>figure out, good expample, works just as well.

I actually have to side with MC23 on this one issue. Your "clarification" makes
no
sense: You say that 90% goes into good karma, and then give an example in
which 91% goes into good karma. 90% is 9 out of 10, not 10 out of 11.

Double-Domed Mike (who was not a math major but does know fractions)
Message no. 10
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:00:26 -0700
> From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
> And I don't go around insulting people who didn't understand
> it. Hey, I'm a hero! :-)

Look..Up in the sky...Is it a bird?? No..Is it a pig?? No..It's
MM..Metoer Man..No..It's Mike Mulvihill!!!
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 11
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math -Reply
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:54:00 MST
>>So in order to make things simple I created a new and different rule:
>>simple to figure out, good expample, works just as well.
>
>I actually have to side with MC23 on this one issue. Your "clarification"
>makes no
>sense: You say that 90% goes into good karma, and then give an example in
>which 91% goes into good karma. 90% is 9 out of 10, not 10 out of 11.
>
>Double-Domed Mike (who was not a math major but does know fractions)

Our group wondered about this whole thing. For about 5 minutes. We went
with they way it was written, 10% of your karma, which is 1 out of 10.
Either way, it's just one point and not really that big of a deal. I find
it kind of humorous that so much attention was spent on it. Now the
grounding through the quickening thing...that's worth nice big argument.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 12
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:25:03 -0700
> From: "Spike" <u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk>

> |> From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
> |> Hey, I'm a hero! :-)
> |
> |Look..Up in the sky...Is it a bird?? No..Is it a pig?? No..It's
> |MM..Metoer Man..No..It's Mike Mulvihill!!!
>
> You callin' aaar Mike a pig???

No.... Are you trying to start something??? I know a guy on the
Gaming Police Force ya know.... ;) And they are known to shoot first
and ask questions later....


-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 13
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:07:58 -0500
In a message dated 1/16/97 11:02:59 PM, Granite wrote:

>Look..Up in the sky...Is it a bird?? No..Is it a pig?? No..It's
>MM..Metoer Man..No..It's Mike Mulvihill!!!

LOL!

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Alas! It Was A Long Day!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 14
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math -Reply
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:58:02 -0500
In a message dated 1/16/97 10:07:42 PM, Double-Domed Mike wrote:

>You say that 90% goes into good karma, and then give an example in
>which 91% goes into good karma. 90% is 9 out of 10, not 10 out of 11.

Actually, the old rule says that. The new rule says..."a character who
recieves 10 points of Good Karma adds the next Good Karma Point he earns to
his Karma Pool. Then the cycle begins again." There is no mention of percents
at all in the new rule.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Simple, eh!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 15
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Companion and Math -Reply
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:50:21 -0500
Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote,
>Actually, the old rule says that. The new rule says..."a character who
>recieves 10 points of Good Karma adds the next Good Karma Point he earns to
>his Karma Pool. Then the cycle begins again." There is no mention of percents
>at all in the new rule.

The companion in my hands quotes the percentage rule from SRII, then
it gives the new rules. The new rule says it's in "simplier terms" but
not that it is handling them differently. Try another spin on the rule
change please. Those are the type of things don't go over to well with
those of us resist to change. B>]#

- MC23, trying to stop a lynch mob from forming -

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