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Message no. 1
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:10:24 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Edwards <edwars2@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: Concealability Question...


>>being a dog shaman physad
>
>This is only half serious, especially since I don't know as much about
>shamans as I should, but it seems to me that a dog shaman wearing a dog
coat
>would be rather like a human wearing another human's skin. I could see a
>bird shaman wearing feathers that had fallen from a living bird, but taking
>the skin from the dog usually means ending the life of the dog, and taking
>it from one already dead would seem disrespectful to me. Now, I'm not
>criticizing your idea... I think it's pretty cool and I would consider
using
>something like that, but this is a concern that I though of.
>
It depends on how you look at it. The dogs that went into the making of the
coat were sacrificed, their spirits forever becoming part of the shaman.
Don't think he just got in his 4WD and ran over a few neighbourhood pooches.
Message no. 2
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:25:00 EDT
Hey...just a question. This is probably covered in the books but rather than
sorting through I thought I'd have you all do the dirty work! ::grinz:: Need
to know about concealability and like what's the lowest you can have in a
given article of clothing. (For instances...what's the biggest gun you could
conceivably hide in a jacket and/or trench...and what kind of penalties would
there be for an oversized gun?) I've never found any clear ruling on this and
I'd appreciate the info. Thanks much.
Message no. 3
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:36:21 GMT
>From: Sinabian@***.com
>Hey...just a question. This is probably covered in the books but rather
>than
>sorting through I thought I'd have you all do the dirty work! ::grinz::
>Need
>to know about concealability and like what's the lowest you can have in a
>given article of clothing. (For instances...what's the biggest gun you
>could
>conceivably hide in a jacket and/or trench...and what kind of penalties
>would
>there be for an oversized gun?) I've never found any clear ruling on this
>and
>I'd appreciate the info. Thanks much.

You can try to conceal any gun in any item of clothing; trenchcoats are
normally the way to go. However, hiding a concelability 2 shotgun behind
the baggyest of trenchcaots will only give it a concelability of 3, which
anyone with, say, eyes, will spot.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 4
From: Zebulin Magby zebulingod@*****.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:51:35 -0700
<Sinabian@***.com> wrote:

> Hey...just a question. This is probably covered in the books but rather
than
> sorting through I thought I'd have you all do the dirty work! ::grinz::
Need
> to know about concealability and like what's the lowest you can have in a
> given article of clothing. (For instances...what's the biggest gun you
could
> conceivably hide in a jacket and/or trench...and what kind of penalties
would
> there be for an oversized gun?) I've never found any clear ruling on this
and
> I'd appreciate the info. Thanks much.
>

Being the proud owner of a Black Leather Trench Coat (tm, even!), I can
honestly say that it would be possible for me to conceal anything up to and
including shotguns or assault rifles. (Keep in mind that I have a large
trench coat.) My friend is in the Guard and he successfully pulled off a "I
hide the assault rifle under my coat." right in front of his sergeant.


-Zebulin-Magby-
ICQ: 21932827
SRGC: SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ !B UB IE+
RN+ STK++ W- dk+ ri++ m-(d++) gm++ M- P++

"The splendor of the Universe pales in comparison to that of a fine woman."
-Me '2K
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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!PS PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv b+++>$ DI++++ D++ G+ e* h--- r+++ z+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



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Message no. 5
From: Jeff Arrowsmith jarrowsmith@*******.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:05:07 -0500
hehehe you have never seen "Highlander" then...they can hide all sorts of
long swords under their trenchcoats.... no one can see them.
8)

> You can try to conceal any gun in any item of clothing; trenchcoats are
> normally the way to go. However, hiding a concelability 2 shotgun behind
> the baggyest of trenchcaots will only give it a concelability of 3, which
> anyone with, say, eyes, will spot.
>
> Phil
>
> Let us assume we have a can opener.
Message no. 6
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:09:07 +0200
(>) Jeff Arrowsmith Left this message on the BBS at 01:05 PM 8/24/2000
>hehehe you have never seen "Highlander" then...they can hide all sorts of
>long swords under their trenchcoats.... no one can see them.
>8)

Combat, conceal 2 Shotgun. Sword. Combat, *conceal 2* shotgun. Sword.
I rest my case. Anyone with, say, brains will understand. :)

(>) Nimster
There is no spoon.
Message no. 7
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:53:31 +0200
According to Sinabian@***.com, at 13:25 on 24 Aug 00, the word on the
street was...

> Hey...just a question. This is probably covered in the books but rather than
> sorting through I thought I'd have you all do the dirty work! ::grinz:: Need
> to know about concealability and like what's the lowest you can have in a
> given article of clothing. (For instances...what's the biggest gun you could
> conceivably hide in a jacket and/or trench...and what kind of penalties would
> there be for an oversized gun?) I've never found any clear ruling on this and
> I'd appreciate the info. Thanks much.

This is never addressed, but I tend to look at the relative sizes of the
weapons and the clothing they're to be hidden under. One thing is for
sure: you can't make a simple ruling that says that (for example) any item
that has a Concealability can be hidden under any type of clothing -- if
you do, you'll get people hiding 1-meter-long rifles under short jackets.

Common sense suggests the following:
Pistol: waist-length jacket
SMG: hip-length jacket
Rifle/shotgun (preferably with folding stock): trenchcoat
Larger: not possible

For trolls and dwarfs, of course, this needs to be adjusted a bit. A troll
could put a MMG under a trenchcoat, but it would not do much good because
of the Concealability of - which means it will get spotted even if it's
completely hidden by the coat.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:32:43 EDT
In a message dated 8/25/00 2:50:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:

<< Common sense suggests the following:
Pistol: waist-length jacket
SMG: hip-length jacket
Rifle/shotgun (preferably with folding stock): trenchcoat
Larger: not possible

For trolls and dwarfs, of course, this needs to be adjusted a bit. A troll
could put a MMG under a trenchcoat, but it would not do much good because
of the Concealability of - which means it will get spotted even if it's
completely hidden by the coat. >>


That's about what I was figuring. Thanks again oh unofficial GM Guru... ; )~
Message no. 9
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:25:30 +1000
Something else for cocealability to consider. One of my characters wears a
dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
bulges. All you need is a group of runners wearing mink coats into the
Aztech building...
Message no. 10
From: Fyre - AKA Colin fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:24:03 +0100
In article <005601c00f0d$4a744820$8f1586cb@********>, Simon and Fiona
<sfuller@******.com.au> writes
>
>Something else for cocealability to consider. One of my characters wears a
>dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
>bulges. All you need is a group of runners wearing mink coats into the
>Aztech building...
>
And the guards will be too busy laughing at the pansy runners to bother
about their assault cannons etc... :)
DarkFyre
--
fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Message no. 11
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:02:14 +0200
According to Fyre - AKA Colin, at 11:24 on 26 Aug 00, the word on the
street was...

> >Something else for cocealability to consider. One of my characters wears a
> >dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
> >bulges. All you need is a group of runners wearing mink coats into the
> >Aztech building...
> >
> And the guards will be too busy laughing at the pansy runners to bother
> about their assault cannons etc... :)

Or you'd get a big fur craze in street fashion, with all the gangers, low-
level criminals, etc. wearing fur coats in all sorts of colors so they can
hide their weapons more easily. (That is only partly a joke :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:33:37 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 3:58 AM
Subject: Re: Concealability Question...


According to Fyre - AKA Colin, at 11:24 on 26 Aug 00, the word on the
street was...

>> >Something else for cocealability to consider. One of my characters wears
a
>> >dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
>> >bulges. All you need is a group of runners wearing mink coats into the
>> >Aztech building...
>> >
>> And the guards will be too busy laughing at the pansy runners to bother
>> about their assault cannons etc... :)

>Or you'd get a big fur craze in street fashion, with all the gangers, low-
>level criminals, etc. wearing fur coats in all sorts of colors so they can
>hide their weapons more easily. (That is only partly a joke :)


Yeah! and platform shoes and gold chains. Superfly Shadowrun, mamma!
I heard that the craze for ridiculously baggy pants was for gang types to
better hide guns and knives.
Message no. 13
From: Andrew Gryphon webmaster@*********.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:27:09 -0500
on 8/25/00 10:25 PM, Simon and Fiona at sfuller@******.com.au e-scribed:

> One of my characters wears a
> dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
> bulges.

Depends on the dog. Chihuahuas wouldn't help much. ;^] BTW, is there a story
behind that coat?

--
Andrew Gryphon
http://www.Wyrmworks.com
Taking Role-Playing to the next level
Message no. 14
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:54:28 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Gryphon <webmaster@*********.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Concealability Question...


>on 8/25/00 10:25 PM, Simon and Fiona at sfuller@******.com.au e-scribed:
>
>> One of my characters wears a
>> dog skin coat, so we rule that the hair helps to camoflage suspicious
>> bulges.
>
>Depends on the dog. Chihuahuas wouldn't help much. ;^] BTW, is there a
story
>behind that coat?
>
>--
Well, it is a Rotty coat, complete with doghead hood (presumably more than
one dog was used, but then it might have ben a really fat dog :?) ) so the
fur isn't that thick, but it is enough to up the concealability a bit.
The story behind it is that he went on a visionquest, being a dog shaman
physad, and because of this I wanted to do something to him to make him more
mystical looking. I thought about how shamans use masks, and then I thought
about that cave painting of the neolithic shaman/god/whatever it is, before
my time, where he is wearing a stag skin and the head of it completely masks
the wearer's head (you know the one, his knob is hanging down between his
legs), and so part of the visionquest was him crafting the coat so that he
is closer to Dog. When he uses his juju or is in a fight or whatever, the
dog head becomes his spirit mask, the two faces becoming one.
All totally wasted on my role playing group of course, they just care that
he has a huge combat pool and is very good with a gun -sigh-
Message no. 15
From: Sean Edwards edwars2@*******.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:37:47 EDT
>being a dog shaman physad

This is only half serious, especially since I don't know as much about
shamans as I should, but it seems to me that a dog shaman wearing a dog coat
would be rather like a human wearing another human's skin. I could see a
bird shaman wearing feathers that had fallen from a living bird, but taking
the skin from the dog usually means ending the life of the dog, and taking
it from one already dead would seem disrespectful to me. Now, I'm not
criticizing your idea... I think it's pretty cool and I would consider using
something like that, but this is a concern that I though of.


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Message no. 16
From: Fyre - AKA Colin fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:30:44 +0100
In article <F171JmGzrLCCtgx8VUk00000f42@*******.com>, Sean Edwards
<edwars2@*******.com> writes
>>being a dog shaman physad
>
>This is only half serious, especially since I don't know as much about
>shamans as I should, but it seems to me that a dog shaman wearing a dog coat
>would be rather like a human wearing another human's skin. I could see a
>bird shaman wearing feathers that had fallen from a living bird, but taking
>the skin from the dog usually means ending the life of the dog, and taking
>it from one already dead would seem disrespectful to me. Now, I'm not
>criticizing your idea... I think it's pretty cool and I would consider using
>something like that, but this is a concern that I though of.
>
It does strike me as rather harsh, but then again I could see a tiger
shaman walking around with a tiger skin + tiger's head 'hood'... The
shaman does not worship the animal, he/she worships the totem and ideals
of that animal... Perhaps even having a pet animal (or in the case of
some totems, being the pet themselves :) ) but that depends on the
character, not all shamans are like that.
DarkFyre
--
fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Message no. 17
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:50:53 +0200
(>) Simon and Fiona Left this message on the BBS at 04:10 PM 2/23/2000

>It depends on how you look at it. The dogs that went into the making of the
>coat were sacrificed, their spirits forever becoming part of the shaman.
>Don't think he just got in his 4WD and ran over a few neighbourhood pooches.

Yeah, that would leave tire marks. Better use tasers, or clubs (although
you can get bruised a little using those...)
(>) Nimster
If it has foreign logic, strange use of language, and comes in contrary to
common sense, it's Nimster!
Message no. 18
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Concealability Question...
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:13:34 GMT
>From: Fyre - AKA Colin <fyre@******.demon.co.uk>
>It does strike me as rather harsh, but then again I could see a tiger
>shaman walking around with a tiger skin + tiger's head 'hood'... The
>shaman does not worship the animal, he/she worships the totem and ideals
>of that animal... Perhaps even having a pet animal (or in the case of
>some totems, being the pet themselves :) ) but that depends on the
>character, not all shamans are like that.

Especially seeing as animals don't always get on; just because you happen to
be a dog does not mean that you adore other dogs; most try to rip each
other's throats out on sight. I always thought it would be fun to play a
dog shaman who has a dog allergy.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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