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From:	Veskrashen veskrashen@*******.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:25:53 -1100

Message no. 1 Ok, I understand what happens when a magician initiates, but I guess I'm
a bit confused when it comes to Magician Adepts. As I understand it, an
adept initiates, raising his magic rating by one. He then can choose to
get a power point or a metamagic technique. Now, what I don't understand
is this: does the adept gain a power point because his magic rating is
now one higher? The reason why I ask this is simple: if they don't
automatically get a power point from increasing their magic rating, then
they have to choose between getting extra adept abilities or getting a
metamagic technique, right? And since a Magician Adept doesn't increase
his Magic Ability power when his magic rating increases (it's an Adept
ability and must be bought), then effectively he doesn't get the same
benefits as a standard mage does when they initiate. After all, a normal
mage can get the increased spell-slinging, THEN choose to alter their
signature, drop a geas or learn a metamagic technique. A Magician Adept,
even though his a priority A magic user, doesn't get the same option.
Which is right? Does he get an automatic power point, then choose among
the others as usual (not being able to get the 2nd power point, of
course) or do they get screwed? Do "normal" adepts get to the option of
a 2nd power point, even though they're priority B magicians?

-Ves.

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Sat, 21 Aug 1999 04:11:47 EDT

Message no. 2 In a message dated 8/21/99 12:27:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
veskrashen@*******.com writes:

> Which is right? Does he get an automatic power point, then choose among
> the others as usual (not being able to get the 2nd power point, of
> course) or do they get screwed? Do "normal" adepts get to the option of
> a 2nd power point, even though they're priority B magicians?

A Magical Adept (Magic 6, with 6 Points of Powers) initiates. His Magic
Attribute jumps to 7 (raising his ceiling on Power ranks) and now he must
choose between a Power Point or a metamagic. For a Magical Path Adept, Power
Points are not directly linked to the Magic Attribute. They must choose them
when initiating.

Standard Adepts initiate, their Magic Attribute goes up (from 6 to 7,
say), they get a Power Point, and can choose a metamagic (but they only have
a few options for metamagics, and most are built around the Centering
ability).

This may seem like a big restriction for Magical Adepts, but you need to
remember they have the best of both worlds. They can get all the Powers of
Adepts without need for cyber or quickened spells, and they can use all the
Foci of Full Magicians not just weapon Foci. (Yes, this means you can make a
Magical Adept with a Power Focus, or even a bonded Weapon Focus.)

Magical Path Adepts are also the rarest of the rare in the magic
community. If magicians only make up 1% of the entire population (and way
less than that works the shadows), then (I believe) aspected magicians would
be the most common, adepts more rare, full magicians very rare, and Magical
Adepts the "I can't believe I just spotted one!" variety. (I'm taking this
from Awakenings about Magical Adepts. In there the posters weren't even sure
if Physical Magicians existed.)

What this means, in my opinion, is that the method of a Magical Adept
connecting with magic is stretched to a very taunt degree. If its difficult
for a Full Magician to do all his mojo, a Magical Adepts is working overtime
to handle all the connections. They are the most elite of the magical caste,
and the most vulnerable (at first) for this degree of separation they must
have (more than an adept, less than a magician, greater than both in
understanding and gifts of talent).

This makes the mechanics of working Magical Adepts very difficult indeed.

An important thing to note, though: each initiation you still go up a
Grade and you still add to your Magic Attribute. This means you are growing
immensely in power, just as much as regular adepts/magicians and more because
of all the things you're capable of.

I, personally, like the system. I think it balances the two worlds of
magic very nicely. I can understand, though, how sweet it would be if you
could get the Power Point from the Magic Att *and* trade a metamagic in for
one.

-Twist
"The best part of being a Magical Adept? Pain resistance."

From:	Veskrashen veskrashen@*******.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:43 -1100

Message no. 3 Twist0059@***.com wrote:
> A Magical Adept (Magic 6, with 6 Points of Powers) initiates. His Magic
> Attribute jumps to 7 (raising his ceiling on Power ranks) and now he must
> choose between a Power Point or a metamagic. For a Magical Path Adept, Power
> Points are not directly linked to the Magic Attribute. They must choose them
> when initiating.
>
> Standard Adepts initiate, their Magic Attribute goes up (from 6 to 7,
> say), they get a Power Point, and can choose a metamagic (but they only have
> a few options for metamagics, and most are built around the Centering
> ability).

The problem I have with this is that it states (IIRC) that you're
supposed to treat a Magician Adept as a normal adept, but they have this
nifty power called Magical Ability which allows them to cast spells. If
regular adepts aren't limited like this, I don't see why Magician Adepts
are. In addition, I really don't like the way that magic attribute is
suddenly not linked to the adept's power anymore. If it goes down, he
suffers as normal, but if it goes up, he gets no benefit. Initiation is
supposed to represent a breakthrough in magical understanding, and as
such Magician Adepts should benefit as regular adepts and mages do.

> This may seem like a big restriction for Magical Adepts, but you need to
> remember they have the best of both worlds. They can get all the Powers of
> Adepts without need for cyber or quickened spells, and they can use all the
> Foci of Full Magicians not just weapon Foci. (Yes, this means you can make a
> Magical Adept with a Power Focus, or even a bonded Weapon Focus.)

I realize that, and this makes them the equal of every other magician -
both full-blown A priority mages and B priority aspected magicians. I
don't see how this should impact their ability to advance in power with
initiation. Plus, they're already splitting their focus as it is, and
are not the equal of either a full-blown mage or full-blown adept in
terms of raw power. Not allowing them to have a power point when their
magic rating goes up is putting them even further behind the power
curve. To wit:

A priority mage / B priority aspected mage, grade 2 initiate:
magic rating: 8
max force of spell: 8
max metamagic techniques: 2

Adept, grade 2:
magic rating: 8
power points: 8-10
metamagic techniques: 0-2

Magician adept, grade 2:
magic rating: 8
power points: 6-8
max force of spell: 1-7
metamagic techniques: 0-2

> Magical Path Adepts are also the rarest of the rare in the magic
> community. If magicians only make up 1% of the entire population (and way
> less than that works the shadows), then (I believe) aspected magicians would
> be the most common, adepts more rare, full magicians very rare, and Magical
> Adepts the "I can't believe I just spotted one!" variety. (I'm taking this
> from Awakenings about Magical Adepts. In there the posters weren't even sure
> if Physical Magicians existed.)

So are Night Ones and all the other meta variants, but they have no
special restrictions on them other than standard racial ones. They still
cost the same priority and advance the same karma to benefit wise.

> What this means, in my opinion, is that the method of a Magical Adept
> connecting with magic is stretched to a very taunt degree. If its difficult
> for a Full Magician to do all his mojo, a Magical Adepts is working overtime
> to handle all the connections. They are the most elite of the magical caste,
> and the most vulnerable (at first) for this degree of separation they must
> have (more than an adept, less than a magician, greater than both in
> understanding and gifts of talent).

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with this. To me, a magician adept is
simply someone who wants to balance the way they use magic, or is
someone who uses magic more internally than most. An adept is someone
who focuses their magic inward, a mage is someone who focuses it
outward. a magician adept simply does not see that the one precludes the
other. However, because they have internalised part of their magic, they
can't project all of it.

> This makes the mechanics of working Magical Adepts very difficult indeed.
>
> An important thing to note, though: each initiation you still go up a
> Grade and you still add to your Magic Attribute. This means you are growing
> immensely in power, just as much as regular adepts/magicians and more because
> of all the things you're capable of.

Again, look at the description above. I don't think they keep pace with
everyone else, no does their power grow at initiation unless they
sacrifice a great deal.

> I, personally, like the system. I think it balances the two worlds of
> magic very nicely. I can understand, though, how sweet it would be if you
> could get the Power Point from the Magic Att *and* trade a metamagic in for
> one.

Personally, I think that they should get the power point with their
magic increase. It only makes sense that everyone gets the same basic
benefit from initiation. I DON'T think, however, that they should get
the option of a second power point. That, I believe, was added for
regular adepts, because their choices for metamagical techniques are
quite limited in comparison to a spellslinger. I think that magician
adepts should, however, have the options available to them that any
other spellcaster does: metamagic technique, lose a geas, or alter your
signature.

> -Twist
-Ves.

> "The best part of being a Magical Adept? Pain resistance."
All too true.

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:01:12 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 4 <Snippola(TM)>
> I realize that, and this makes them the equal of every other magician
- both full-blown A priority mages and B priority aspected magicians. I
don't see how this should impact their ability to advance in power with
initiation. Plus, they're already splitting their focus as it is, and
are not the equal of either a full-blown mage or full-blown adept in
terms of raw power. Not allowing them to have a power point when their
magic rating goes up is putting them even further behind the power
curve. To wit:
>
> A priority mage / B priority aspected mage, grade 2 initiate:
> magic rating: 8
> max force of spell: 8
> max metamagic techniques: 2
>
> Adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 8-10
> metamagic techniques: 0-2
>
> Magician adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 6-8
> max force of spell: 1-7
> metamagic techniques: 0-2
<Snippage(TM)>
> Personally, I think that they should get the power point with their
magic increase. It only makes sense that everyone gets the same basic
benefit from initiation. I DON'T think, however, that they should get
the option of a second power point. That, I believe, was added for
regular adepts, because their choices for metamagical techniques are
quite limited in comparison to a spellslinger. I think that magician
adepts should, however, have the options available to them that any
other spellcaster does: metamagic technique, lose a geas, or alter your
signature.
> -Ves.

I pretty much agree with what Ves said, except he got some of the
details wrong. Normal adepts DON'T have the "extra power point" option.

Instead of a profile like this:

> Adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 8-10
> metamagic techniques: 0-2

They have a profile like this:

Adept, grade 2:
magic rating: 8
power points: 8
metamagic techniques: 2

I think I'll be giving this method a go if I ever get a magical adept
player: When a magical adept initiates, he gets an increase to his
magic which also gives him an extra power point. Like any other
magicker, he also gets a metamagical technique. He has the same options
as any other spellcaster (lose a geas, change signature). The power
point may be spent on another level of magical ability, or on adept
powers. The only restriction is this: a magical adept must choose which
AREA he is focusing on when he initiates. Each initiation is a special
experience and must focus on one particular area, either his mage or
adept abilities. This is decided by what he spends the power point on.
If he buys magical ability, this particular initation is focused on his
mage abilities. This restricts what metamagical abilities he can
choose.

An example. A magical adept initiates for the first time. He has three
basic options. Power and metamagic, power and signature change or lose
a geas. If he loses a geas, the focus is decided by what powers he
loses it from. He can lose multiple geases, but he can't lose them from
both adept and magical powers at the same initiation.

If he chooses a power point and an astral signature change, he MUST
devote the power point to magical ability, as the signature change is a
magical one, not an adept one.

If he chooses a power point and a metamagical technique, he has the
most options. If he devotes the point to magical ability, he can choose
any metamagical technique he could gain as a mage, but not one he could
gain as an adept. If he devote the point to adept abilities, he can
only choose a metamagical technique another adept could gain.

An even more specific example. Said adept decides to get a power point
and a metamagical technique. The technique he wants to get is centring.
If he puts the power point into magical ability, he gains the mage
version of centring (applying centring to magical skills). If he puts
it into adept powers, he gains the adept version (applying centring to
athletics and stealth).

Any comments?

*Doc' REALLY wants to find someone with the Improved Ability: Swedish
Massage power. Of course, someone with Improved Ability: Tantric Sex
could also be fun...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:52:37 EDT

Message no. 5 In a message dated 8/23/99 6:11:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
veskrashen@*******.com writes:

> I realize that, and this makes them the equal of every other magician -
> both full-blown A priority mages and B priority aspected magicians. I
> don't see how this should impact their ability to advance in power with
> initiation. Plus, they're already splitting their focus as it is, and
> are not the equal of either a full-blown mage or full-blown adept in
> terms of raw power. Not allowing them to have a power point when their
> magic rating goes up is putting them even further behind the power
> curve. To wit:
>
> A priority mage / B priority aspected mage, grade 2 initiate:
> magic rating: 8
> max force of spell: 8
> max metamagic techniques: 2
>
> Adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 8-10
> metamagic techniques: 0-2
>
> Magician adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 6-8
> max force of spell: 1-7
> metamagic techniques: 0-2

They are not equal to both magicians and adepts, they are the most powerful
aspects of both. A magician who can cast Force 6 spells and have initiatives
of 11 + 4D6 is a big problem if you allow them to get there that quickly.
Remember: Normal Adepts don't have the 2 Power Points per initiation either.

Here's an example: A magician adept can take Magical Ability (The Power of
spellcasting) with a geas on each level (say a Gesture geas) and still have
1.5 Power Points left over at CharGen, with 36 Spell Points. He can buy
Level-1 Reflexes Increase, and put the .5 into a skill. Two initiation
grades later (per your own example, under Mike's new rule declaration) he can
buy himself 2 Power Points worth of new abilities. This means he can upgrade
to Level-2 Reflexes Increase, so now he's at Spellcasting/Conjuring-6 and
about 9 + 3D6 under current rules, which is every normal magician's dream and
what they normally have to hassle through with cyber or quickened spells or
damn spell sustaining foci. If the 2 Power Points *per* initiation rule was
still in effect, the guy would have 4 Power Points to spend after two
initiations. Which means he could go up to either 11 + 4D6, or stay at 9 +
3D6 and go up to Spellcasting/Conjuring-10.

That seems like a pretty radical shift in power to me, so I'm glad Mike
fixed it.

-Twist

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:37:48 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 6 This is a resend, as my message appears to have disappeared into the
bottomless black hole of Jackpoint...

--- Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com> wrote:
> <Snippola(TM)>
> > I realize that, and this makes them the equal of
> every other magician
> - both full-blown A priority mages and B priority
> aspected magicians. I
> don't see how this should impact their ability to
> advance in power with
> initiation. Plus, they're already splitting their
> focus as it is, and
> are not the equal of either a full-blown mage or
> full-blown adept in
> terms of raw power. Not allowing them to have a
> power point when their
> magic rating goes up is putting them even further
> behind the power
> curve. To wit:
> >
> > A priority mage / B priority aspected mage, grade
> 2 initiate:
> > magic rating: 8
> > max force of spell: 8
> > max metamagic techniques: 2
> >
> > Adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 8-10
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
> >
> > Magician adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 6-8
> > max force of spell: 1-7
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
> <Snippage(TM)>
> > Personally, I think that they should get the power
> point with their
> magic increase. It only makes sense that everyone
> gets the same basic
> benefit from initiation. I DON'T think, however,
> that they should get
> the option of a second power point. That, I believe,
> was added for
> regular adepts, because their choices for
> metamagical techniques are
> quite limited in comparison to a spellslinger. I
> think that magician
> adepts should, however, have the options available
> to them that any
> other spellcaster does: metamagic technique, lose a
> geas, or alter your
> signature.
> > -Ves.
>
> I pretty much agree with what Ves said, except he
> got some of the
> details wrong. Normal adepts DON'T have the "extra
> power point" option.
>
> Instead of a profile like this:
>
> > Adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 8-10
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
>
> They have a profile like this:
>
> Adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 8
> metamagic techniques: 2
>
> I think I'll be giving this method a go if I ever
> get a magical adept
> player: When a magical adept initiates, he gets an
> increase to his
> magic which also gives him an extra power point.
> Like any other
> magicker, he also gets a metamagical technique. He
> has the same options
> as any other spellcaster (lose a geas, change
> signature). The power
> point may be spent on another level of magical
> ability, or on adept
> powers. The only restriction is this: a magical
> adept must choose which
> AREA he is focusing on when he initiates. Each
> initiation is a special
> experience and must focus on one particular area,
> either his mage or
> adept abilities. This is decided by what he spends
> the power point on.
> If he buys magical ability, this particular
> initation is focused on his
> mage abilities. This restricts what metamagical
> abilities he can
> choose.
>
> An example. A magical adept initiates for the first
> time. He has three
> basic options. Power and metamagic, power and
> signature change or lose
> a geas. If he loses a geas, the focus is decided by
> what powers he
> loses it from. He can lose multiple geases, but he
> can't lose them from
> both adept and magical powers at the same
> initiation.
>
> If he chooses a power point and an astral signature
> change, he MUST
> devote the power point to magical ability, as the
> signature change is a
> magical one, not an adept one.
>
> If he chooses a power point and a metamagical
> technique, he has the
> most options. If he devotes the point to magical
> ability, he can choose
> any metamagical technique he could gain as a mage,
> but not one he could
> gain as an adept. If he devote the point to adept
> abilities, he can
> only choose a metamagical technique another adept
> could gain.
>
> An even more specific example. Said adept decides to
> get a power point
> and a metamagical technique. The technique he wants
> to get is centring.
> If he puts the power point into magical ability, he
> gains the mage
> version of centring (applying centring to magical
> skills). If he puts
> it into adept powers, he gains the adept version
> (applying centring to
> athletics and stealth).
>
> Any comments?
>
> *Doc' REALLY wants to find someone with the Improved
> Ability: Swedish
> Massage power. Of course, someone with Improved
> Ability: Tantric Sex
> could also be fun...*
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of
> Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>

==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:54:20 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 7 This is a resend, as my message appears to have disappeared into the
bottomless black hole of Jackpoint...

--- Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com> wrote:
> <Snippola(TM)>
> > I realize that, and this makes them the equal of
> every other magician
> - both full-blown A priority mages and B priority
> aspected magicians. I
> don't see how this should impact their ability to
> advance in power with
> initiation. Plus, they're already splitting their
> focus as it is, and
> are not the equal of either a full-blown mage or
> full-blown adept in
> terms of raw power. Not allowing them to have a
> power point when their
> magic rating goes up is putting them even further
> behind the power
> curve. To wit:
> >
> > A priority mage / B priority aspected mage, grade
> 2 initiate:
> > magic rating: 8
> > max force of spell: 8
> > max metamagic techniques: 2
> >
> > Adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 8-10
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
> >
> > Magician adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 6-8
> > max force of spell: 1-7
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
> <Snippage(TM)>
> > Personally, I think that they should get the power
> point with their
> magic increase. It only makes sense that everyone
> gets the same basic
> benefit from initiation. I DON'T think, however,
> that they should get
> the option of a second power point. That, I believe,
> was added for
> regular adepts, because their choices for
> metamagical techniques are
> quite limited in comparison to a spellslinger. I
> think that magician
> adepts should, however, have the options available
> to them that any
> other spellcaster does: metamagic technique, lose a
> geas, or alter your
> signature.
> > -Ves.
>
> I pretty much agree with what Ves said, except he
> got some of the
> details wrong. Normal adepts DON'T have the "extra
> power point" option.
>
> Instead of a profile like this:
>
> > Adept, grade 2:
> > magic rating: 8
> > power points: 8-10
> > metamagic techniques: 0-2
>
> They have a profile like this:
>
> Adept, grade 2:
> magic rating: 8
> power points: 8
> metamagic techniques: 2
>
> I think I'll be giving this method a go if I ever
> get a magical adept
> player: When a magical adept initiates, he gets an
> increase to his
> magic which also gives him an extra power point.
> Like any other
> magicker, he also gets a metamagical technique. He
> has the same options
> as any other spellcaster (lose a geas, change
> signature). The power
> point may be spent on another level of magical
> ability, or on adept
> powers. The only restriction is this: a magical
> adept must choose which
> AREA he is focusing on when he initiates. Each
> initiation is a special
> experience and must focus on one particular area,
> either his mage or
> adept abilities. This is decided by what he spends
> the power point on.
> If he buys magical ability, this particular
> initation is focused on his
> mage abilities. This restricts what metamagical
> abilities he can
> choose.
>
> An example. A magical adept initiates for the first
> time. He has three
> basic options. Power and metamagic, power and
> signature change or lose
> a geas. If he loses a geas, the focus is decided by
> what powers he
> loses it from. He can lose multiple geases, but he
> can't lose them from
> both adept and magical powers at the same
> initiation.
>
> If he chooses a power point and an astral signature
> change, he MUST
> devote the power point to magical ability, as the
> signature change is a
> magical one, not an adept one.
>
> If he chooses a power point and a metamagical
> technique, he has the
> most options. If he devotes the point to magical
> ability, he can choose
> any metamagical technique he could gain as a mage,
> but not one he could
> gain as an adept. If he devote the point to adept
> abilities, he can
> only choose a metamagical technique another adept
> could gain.
>
> An even more specific example. Said adept decides to
> get a power point
> and a metamagical technique. The technique he wants
> to get is centring.
> If he puts the power point into magical ability, he
> gains the mage
> version of centring (applying centring to magical
> skills). If he puts
> it into adept powers, he gains the adept version
> (applying centring to
> athletics and stealth).
>
> Any comments?
>
> *Doc' REALLY wants to find someone with the Improved
> Ability: Swedish
> Massage power. Of course, someone with Improved
> Ability: Tantric Sex
> could also be fun...*
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of
> Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:23:20 -0300

Message no. 8 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] This is a resend, as my message appears to have disappeared into the
] bottomless black hole of Jackpoint...

<snip>

Wow. Got the resend twice, and the original message once.

-Boondocker

From:	cmpetro@*******.com cmpetro@*******.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:57:44 -0500

Message no. 9 Doc writes:
>I think I'll be giving this method a go if I ever get a magical adept
>player: When a magical adept initiates, he gets an increase to his
>magic which also gives him an extra power point. Like any other
>magicker, he also gets a metamagical technique. He has the same options
>as any other spellcaster (lose a geas, change signature). The power
>point may be spent on another level of magical ability, or on adept
>powers. The only restriction is this: a magical adept must choose which
>AREA he is focusing on when he initiates. Each initiation is a special
>experience and must focus on one particular area, either his mage or
>adept abilities. This is decided by what he spends the power point on.
>If he buys magical ability, this particular initation is focused on his
>mage abilities. This restricts what metamagical abilities he can
>choose.
>
>An example. A magical adept initiates for the first time. He has three
>basic options. Power and metamagic, power and signature change or lose
>a geas. If he loses a geas, the focus is decided by what powers he
>loses it from. He can lose multiple geases, but he can't lose them from
>both adept and magical powers at the same initiation.
>
>If he chooses a power point and an astral signature change, he MUST
>devote the power point to magical ability, as the signature change is a
>magical one, not an adept one.
>
>If he chooses a power point and a metamagical technique, he has the
>most options. If he devotes the point to magical ability, he can choose
>any metamagical technique he could gain as a mage, but not one he could
>gain as an adept. If he devote the point to adept abilities, he can
>only choose a metamagical technique another adept could gain.
>
>An even more specific example. Said adept decides to get a power point
>and a metamagical technique. The technique he wants to get is centring.
>If he puts the power point into magical ability, he gains the mage
>version of centring (applying centring to magical skills). If he puts
>it into adept powers, he gains the adept version (applying centring to
>athletics and stealth).

>Any comments?

Since you asked....

Insert the word "ONLY " before "could gain as an adept" in the
sentence "If he
devotes the point to magical ability, he can choose any metamagical technique he
could gain as a mage, but not one he could ^ONLY^ gain as an adept."

(IMOHO) Centering once learned (either as a mage or an adept), should be usable
to reduce drain from physad powers. Drain from spellcasting should require the
mage version. There is no special centering for physad drain.

Other than the above, I agree with your method.

How would you calculate the initiate level for centering vs drain (physad power
and spellcasting) with a Magical Adept? Would you use the total initiate level
or the number of levels applied to adept powers for adept centering, and levels
applied as mage increase for spellcasting. I think I'd go for a combined total.

From:	Veskrashen veskrashen@*******.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:59:22 -1100

Message no. 10 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Any comments?

I like it. Makes sense to me, at least.

> *Doc' REALLY wants to find someone with the Improved Ability: Swedish
> Massage power. Of course, someone with Improved Ability: Tantric Sex
> could also be fun...*

You and me both, pal, you and me both.

-Ves

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Confused about Magical Adepts...
Date:	Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:03:25 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 11 > Since you asked....
>
> Insert the word "ONLY " before "could gain as an adept" in the
sentence "If he devotes the point to magical ability, he can choose any
metamagical technique he could gain as a mage, but not one he could
^ONLY^ gain as an adept."

Ahhh...gotcha. One of those things that I, as the writer, thought was
self evident, but might not be. And munchkins could possibly have a
field day with. :)

> (IMOHO) Centering once learned (either as a mage or an adept), should
be usable to reduce drain from physad powers.

Hmmm...I rarely get physad powers that cause drain, so I didn't really
think about this one. Ummm...I think I'd split the two up still. Adept
powers that cause drain require adept centring.

Just to be pedantic. :)

Drain from spellcasting should require the mage version.

This is what I meant by "mage centring".

There is no special centering for physad drain.

Well, if you want to do it that way, go for it. :)

> Other than the above, I agree with your method.
>
> How would you calculate the initiate level for centering vs drain
(physad power and spellcasting) with a Magical Adept? Would you use
the total initiate level or the number of levels applied to adept
powers for adept centering, and levels applied as mage increase for
spellcasting. I think I'd go for a combined total.

In this case, so would I. Probably. I might change my mind after seeing
how it works.

The thing is, Magical Adepts are SUPPOSED to be (potentially) the most
powerful awakened characters going - but the current rules don't
support that. Yes, game balance is all well and good and mostly I'll do
whatever I can to maintain it, but I think the current rules have gone
overboard and keep Magical Adepts down, rather than keeping them
balanced.

YMMV.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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