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Message no. 1
From: Jean-Francois Audet axter@*****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:25:36 -0700 (PDT)
Now somebody please tell me that an Aspected Magician
Conjurer NEED to have a high Magic rating like the
other mage!!

I haven't found anywhere (after a rapid check up) that
conjurer require Magic rating at a rating higher than
1 (otherwise Conjuring becomes a knowledge skill).

Here is why : one of my player wanna make an Elven
Hermetic Conjurer Rigger with 8 or 9 Charisma and a
VCR level 2 or 3. -[Munchkin Alert! Munchkin Alert!]-

And since I don't play with the rules that mage can't
make good decker/rigger (+2 to all action while
dekcing/rigging I think), well, it would be someone
terribly dangerous.
==Jeff
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Message no. 2
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:32:08 -0500
> Here is why : one of my player wanna make an Elven
> Hermetic Conjurer Rigger with 8 or 9 Charisma and a
> VCR level 2 or 3. -[Munchkin Alert! Munchkin Alert!]-
>
> And since I don't play with the rules that mage can't
> make good decker/rigger (+2 to all action while
> dekcing/rigging I think), well, it would be someone
> terribly dangerous.

Make a GM call, then, and shoot the character down. Just say "No," and if
he gives you flack, say "No" again.

And if you *do* allow him to generate the character, find a quick means to
cause the characters demise.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 3
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
> Now somebody please tell me that an Aspected Magician Conjurer NEED
to have a high Magic rating like the other mage!!
>
> I haven't found anywhere (after a rapid check up) that conjurer
require Magic rating at a rating higher than 1 (otherwise Conjuring
becomes a knowledge skill).
>
> Here is why : one of my player wanna make an Elven Hermetic Conjurer
Rigger with 8 or 9 Charisma and a VCR level 2 or 3. -[Munchkin Alert!
Munchkin Alert!]-
>
> And since I don't play with the rules that mage can't make good
decker/rigger (+2 to all action while dekcing/rigging I think), well,
it would be someone terribly dangerous.
> ==> Jeff

Jeff, an Aspected Magician Conjurer need...err, needs to have a high
Magic rating like any other mage.

8-)

Seriously, though, the magic rating determines whether the summoner is
taking physical or stun drain when he summons. If the spirit's force is
greater than his magic attribute, he takes physical drain.

Heh heh heh...:)

I also think that he can only summon a spirit with a force up to twice
his magic attribute - but I'm not sure about that one. If I'm right,
though, then your little buddy is reduced to spirits with a maximum
force of 2...

*Doc' wonders if he's just made Jeff a very happy man...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 4
From: Bob Tockley arkham@*******.com.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:08:49 +1000
At 20:25 16/08/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Now somebody please tell me that an Aspected Magician
>Conjurer NEED to have a high Magic rating like the
>other mage!!

Under SR3 you cannot summon a spirit with a Force higher than your Magic
Attribute. Simple as that.

(>) ARKHAM
"Embrace the inevitable."
Message no. 5
From: Bob Tockley arkham@*******.com.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:13:16 +1000
>Under SR3 you cannot summon a spirit with a Force higher than your Magic
Attribute. Simple as that.


Er whoops... Dunno what I was thinking... Change that sentence to read
"Under SR3 you cannot summon a spirit with a Force higher than twice your
Magic Attribute." and add "If you summon a spirit with a Force higher than
your Magic Attribute you take physical damage from the drain." <sigh> I
suppose a whole bunch of people will, as usual, read the first post and
correct it before bothering to read this one...

(>) ARKHAM
"Embrace the inevitable."
Message no. 6
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:28:34 +1000
At 21:33 16/08/99 -0700, Rand Ratinac wrote:
>Seriously, though, the magic rating determines whether the summoner is
>taking physical or stun drain when he summons. If the spirit's force is
>greater than his magic attribute, he takes physical drain.
>I also think that he can only summon a spirit with a force up to twice
>his magic attribute - but I'm not sure about that one. If I'm right,
>though, then your little buddy is reduced to spirits with a maximum
>force of 2...

Yep, Rand has it right in both cases.

Personally, I'd let the player have the rigger-conjurer. I think such a
character is ripe for some great roleplaying and storylining. The player
will only be a munchkin if he acts like a munchkin. If that happens,
pro-actively enforce (and manufacture situations for) all the penalties of
a low Magic Rating. Including Rand's observations above, some more are:

* The maximum permissible force of any watcher summoned is equal to half
the summoner's Magic, round up. Force 1 watchers, only, for the
rigger-conjurer.

* Having such a low Magic leaves the character in danger of too easily
losing it all. Eg. deadly physical wounds, disruption, medics not taking
special care, stim patches (harder to avoid, too, with low Magic) - all
require magic loss tests. With a magic of 1, the character is one failed
roll away from mundanity. If your player acts the munchkin, drain his Magic
this way.

* The low Magic rigger-conjurer will be awful at creating Wards of any real
size, power or duration - since Magic Rating is what's rolled to create Wards.

*The rigger-conjurer will be pretty bad at Spirit Controlling or Banishing
tests - the rigger-conjurer's Magic is the spirit's resisting target number
in these tests. The rigger-conjurer had better not upset any free or
uncontrolled spirits with reckless magic. :-)

* The rigger-conjurer should want to erase his astral signature left by his
spirits' activities. This erasing results in a drain roll. Same as his
conjuring drain, this erasing drain will probably also be physical because
of his low Magic.

* With all the physical drain that a low Magic character must resist - keep
in mind that physical drain cannot be healed by magic.

* If the total force of any foci exceeds twice his Magic, the
rigger-conjurer will risk Foci Addiction. If he has a magic of one - this
means a maximum of two force points of foci to avoid the addiction. (Say
goodbye to multiple Power Focus & Spirit Foci.)

* No ally conjuring possible, a rich area for rigger-magicians and
roleplaying in general, since he has to give up a magic point. Unless done
as the Familiar initiation ordeal - for which there is still a risk of
magic loss when it goes free, is banished or destroyed. And, of course, the
ally can only ever be a maximum Force 2 spirit if the character's Magic is
only 1.

* When not astrally perceiving, the low Magic rigger-conjurer will be
almost as insensitive as a mundane to any background counts into which he
wanders. Also, since astral warps reduce Magic Ratings, the rigger-conjurer
will also be particularly vulnerable to losing all of his Magic in areas
suffering an astral warp of any strength. Lucky for the character, this
reduction is temporary. :-)

* Since the character's Magic is rolled to penetrate masking, he'll still
have a poor time of penetrating the masking of magicians, spirits or
masking wards - if the rigger-conjurer eventually initiates.

* If the rigger-conjurer takes Masking as a metamagic when he initiates,
his masking will be pretty ineffective against other initiates since they
need only roll a target number of his Magic to penetrate. If the
rigger-conjurer takes Invoking as a metamagic (very likely, I suppose)
he'll face resisting a double dose of physical drain if he tries to summon
a spirit of any great force.

* Lastly, if the rigger-conjurer is dragged off on any astral quests :-),
he'll face a dangerous time with both low essence and low magic - not to
mention the danger of disruption and consequential magic loss.


If your player uses geasa to offset his character's low Magic (only some
penalties can be offset this way), enforce those geasa stringently. :-)



Chris
Message no. 7
From: Sidhe tirnanog@****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:36:11 -0700
On Behalf Of Jean-Francois Audet
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute

Now somebody please tell me that an Aspected Magician
Conjurer NEED to have a high Magic rating like the
other mage!!
I haven't found anywhere (after a rapid check up) that
conjurer require Magic rating at a rating higher than
1 (otherwise Conjuring becomes a knowledge skill).

<snip>

A elven conjuror, aspected magician, need not have a high magic attribute. i
once had a conjuring adept (2nd Ed) who also had wired reflexes level 3 (5.0
cyber leaving him with 1 essence and therefore 1 magic point). he kicked
some major ass. was a stealthy shoot-em with a narcoject type. had an 8 for
charisma, summoned up some major elementals to help in the kicking-ass
department. eventually though he took a deadly wound and came through it but
lost his 1 magic point, thereby losing the ability to conjure.

my advice is, while you don't need a high magic attribute, make sure you
have a safety net for just such a situation. losing that part of him was a
blow that he never fully recovered from in the game. it was cool to roleplay
though.

-----------------------------
k. david hayes
tirnanog@****.com
rook_aerie@*******.com
-----------------------------
fart in the face of authority
-----------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Sidhe tirnanog@****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:45:55 -0700
On Behalf Of Rand Ratinac
Sent: 16 August 1999 21:34

<snip> using 3rd edition rules to rebut:

=Seriously, though, the magic rating determines whether the summoner is
=taking physical or stun drain when he summons. If the spirit's force is
=greater than his magic attribute, he takes physical drain.

sorry rand but whether the drain is mental or physical is based upon the
character's charisma, not their magic attribute. so with an 8-9 for
charisma, that is some pretty powerful stuff jeff's player can throw around
there.

=I also think that he can only summon a spirit with a force up to twice
=his magic attribute - but I'm not sure about that one. If I'm right,
=though, then your little buddy is reduced to spirits with a maximum
=force of 2...

again, it is up to twice his/her charisma, and not magic. thus if he is ok
taking high damage for drain, and possibly physical to boot, a force 16
spirit could certainly help on a shadowrun.

=Doc'
=(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
=.sig Sauer


-----------------------------
k. david hayes
tirnanog@****.com
rook_aerie@*******.com
-----------------------------
fart in the face of authority
-----------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:58:59 +1000
At 03:45 17/08/99 -0700, Sidhe wrote:
><snip> using 3rd edition rules to rebut:

Yep. Using SR3 rules.

>sorry rand but whether the drain is mental or physical is based upon the
>character's charisma, not their magic attribute. so with an 8-9 for
>charisma, that is some pretty powerful stuff jeff's player can throw around
>there.

Page 188 BBB: "If the spirit's force is greater than the summoner's Magic
Attribute, the Drain causes physical damage."

>again, it is up to twice his/her charisma, and not magic. thus if he is ok
>taking high damage for drain, and possibly physical to boot, a force 16
>spirit could certainly help on a shadowrun.

Continuing page 188 BBB: "A character cannot summon a spirit with a Force
greater than twice his Magic Attribute."



Chris
Message no. 10
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:58:09 +0200
> * With all the physical drain that a low Magic character must resist -
keep
> in mind that physical drain cannot be healed by magic.

It can't?

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 11
From: Sidhe tirnanog@****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:09:36 -0700
On Behalf Of Chris Maxfield
Sent: 17 August 1999 03:59

=Page 188 BBB: "If the spirit's force is greater than the summoner's Magic
=Attribute, the Drain causes physical damage."
=Continuing page 188 BBB: "A character cannot summon a spirit with a Force
=greater than twice his Magic Attribute."
=Chris

<self-accusing sarcasm>

i pull out my tome of knowledge and say, "Ah hah! I have caught you in a
lie...it says here on page 187 of the BB that...blah blah blah (my
expananation before)..."

"Wait a second...page 188? Ah hah! You have caught me in a lie! Boy do I
feel sheepish."

</self-accusing sarcasm>

Shidhe, who resolves to turn the page next time. baaaaaaa.


-----------------------------
k. david hayes
tirnanog@****.com
rook_aerie@*******.com
-----------------------------
fart in the face of authority
-----------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:42:30 -0400
Jean-Francois Audet wrote:
> Now somebody please tell me that an Aspected Magician
> Conjurer NEED to have a high Magic rating like the
> other mage!!

In SR2, the only thing conjurers needed Magic Rating for is control tests.
This is something that should not be underestimated as important. If you see
a cybered-mage with an elemental, try to take control of it. His or her low
MR won't stand a chance.

Wordman
Message no. 13
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:19:19 +1000
At 13:58 17/08/99 +0200, Dennis Steinmeijer wrote:
> > * With all the physical drain that a low Magic character must resist -
>keep
> > in mind that physical drain cannot be healed by magic.
>
>It can't?

Yep. It's a little rules abuse scenario that has been eliminated in SR3.
:-) See the last paragraph under DRAIN on page 162.



Chris
Message no. 14
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:27:36 +1000
At 05:09 17/08/99 -0700, Sidhe wrote:
><self-accusing sarcasm>
>
>i pull out my tome of knowledge and say, "Ah hah! I have caught you in a
>lie...it says here on page 187 of the BB that...blah blah blah (my
>expananation before)..."

:-) This page is where the drain damage levels are listed based off
Charisma. Is this what you were referring to?


>"Wait a second...page 188? Ah hah! You have caught me in a lie! Boy do I
>feel sheepish."
>
></self-accusing sarcasm>
>
>Shidhe, who resolves to turn the page next time. baaaaaaa.

S'ok, Shidhe. It took me ages to find the same reference a few days ago. I
knew I had read it somewhere and I wanted to show it to a friend. So I kept
on flipping back and forth through the book, unable to find it, until
eventually.....I turned the page. :-)



Chris
Message no. 15
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:15:45 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.org.au>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 5:58 AM
Subject: RE: Conjurer and Magic Attribute


> At 03:45 17/08/99 -0700, Sidhe wrote:
> ><snip> using 3rd edition rules to rebut:
>
> Yep. Using SR3 rules.
>
> >sorry rand but whether the drain is mental or physical is based upon
the
> >character's charisma, not their magic attribute. so with an 8-9 for
> >charisma, that is some pretty powerful stuff jeff's player can throw
around
> >there.
>
> Page 188 BBB: "If the spirit's force is greater than the summoner's
Magic
> Attribute, the Drain causes physical damage."
>
> >again, it is up to twice his/her charisma, and not magic. thus if he
is ok
> >taking high damage for drain, and possibly physical to boot, a force
16
> >spirit could certainly help on a shadowrun.
>
> Continuing page 188 BBB: "A character cannot summon a spirit with a
Force
> greater than twice his Magic Attribute."
>

Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases. Much easier to
follow since they can conjuror elementals all night long and have them
hang around.

Mockingbird
Message no. 16
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:27:44 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
] Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
] problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
] geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
] Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases. Much easier to
] follow since they can conjuror elementals all night long and have them
] hang around.

Sure, that helps for some of it. It won't help for the Magic loss
danger though, that's the kicker. One bad roll, and BAM, you're mundane.
At least, I think this is the case. Could someone confirm this?

-------------------------------------------
PLEASE WATCH YOUR STEP
NICK UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Message no. 17
From: cmpetro@*********.com cmpetro@*********.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:07:49 -0500
>* Since the character's Magic is rolled to penetrate masking, he'll still
>have a poor time of penetrating the masking of magicians, spirits or
>masking wards - if the rigger-conjurer eventually initiates.

He'd probably have a hard time finding a magic group that would except him with
only 1 or 2 essence.
Message no. 18
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:47:11 -0400
Sidhe said:
> again, it is up to twice his/her charisma, and not magic. thus if he is ok
> taking high damage for drain, and possibly physical to boot, a force 16
> spirit could certainly help on a shadowrun.

I don't think that a PC could control a spirit that powerful ("holy shit it
just ate my liver"). It might play along and act like a good little spirit
until something that suited its needs arose. Kinda reminds me of the
demoness in Hellraiser 4. It sounds comparable to walking around with a
vehicle laser on your hip.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 19
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:04:03 -0700 (PDT)
> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to
> Mockingbird."
> ] Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases.
> Much easier to follow since they can conjuror elementals all night
long and have them hang around.
>
> Sure, that helps for some of it. It won't help for the Magic loss
danger though, that's the kicker. One bad roll, and BAM, you're
mundane.
> At least, I think this is the case. Could someone confirm this?

Exactly right. And geases don't help shamanic conjurers much, as the
restrictions imposed really limits your ability to summon spirits on
the spot (which is the best point of being a shamanic conjurer - that
and the varied spirit powers, of course).

*Doc' summons a spirit with the powers of Back-Scratching and Swedish Massage...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 20
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:25:20 +1000
At 14:27 17/08/99 -0300, Scott W wrote:
>"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
>] Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
>] problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
>] geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
>] Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases. Much easier to
>] follow since they can conjuror elementals all night long and have them
>] hang around.
>
> Sure, that helps for some of it. It won't help for the Magic loss
>danger though, that's the kicker. One bad roll, and BAM, you're mundane.
> At least, I think this is the case. Could someone confirm this?

That's the case. Once the character's base Magic Attribute reaches zero,
he's a mundane - no geasa can offset that. :-)

Further, some magic loss cannot be offset with geasa eg. the magic point
donated to summon an ally spirit.

Since geasa will alleviate most magic loss, I believe a GM should check and
only agree to geasa that really do limit the character, then enforce those
limitations. For example, if a game rarely leave the city then the
location(city) geas should not be permitted. If the time(night) geas is
taken, then the GM should ensure that there's plenty of day time action. If
the rigger-conjurer ever breaks just one of his geasa, the GM should ensure
that he suffers the full penalties i.e. temporary loss of all geasa
protected magic points and penalties to target numbers for all of his magic
tests.


Chris
Message no. 21
From: Jean-Francois Audet axter@*****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:41:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Seriously, though, the magic rating determines
> whether the summoner is
> taking physical or stun drain when he summons. If
> the spirit's force is
> greater than his magic attribute, he takes physical
> drain.
>
> Heh heh heh...:)
>
> I also think that he can only summon a spirit with a
> force up to twice
> his magic attribute - but I'm not sure about that
> one. If I'm right,
> though, then your little buddy is reduced to spirits
> with a maximum
> force of 2...
>
> *Doc' wonders if he's just made Jeff a very happy
> man...*

Not totally happy, but if he takes a VCR 2 or an VCR
alpha 3 it leaves him with at least 2 magic points and
it means he can still walk around with up to 9
elemental Force 4.
Summoning a Force 4 elemental take 4 hours and have a
Drain 4L physical.

And your right about the Force max = 2 x Magic (SR3
p.188 Conjuring Drain). I finally found it.

Although, I have no problem to put them in trouble,
after 10 years GMing in various game.. you know what I
mean. ;)
==Jeff
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Message no. 22
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:13:39 +1000
At 20:41 17/08/99 -0700, Jean-Francois Audet wrote:
>Not totally happy, but if he takes a VCR 2 or an VCR
>alpha 3 it leaves him with at least 2 magic points and
>it means he can still walk around with up to 9
>elemental Force 4.
>Summoning a Force 4 elemental take 4 hours and have a
>Drain 4L physical.

Well that's ¥36K and 36 hours to conjure all those elementals. If you have
a money poor game or even a moderate money game, he'll have to choose
between new rigger toys or re-conjured elementals. :-)

To me, the rigger-conjurer with the 9 F4 elementals isn't game unbalancing
or obviously a munchkin. At force 4, an elemental is dangerous but not
necessarily overpowering. For example, a spell slinger or physad shouldn't
raise a sweat eliminating a F4 elemental, and the spell slinger could
probably eliminate half of the elementals with one manaball spell. Any
mundane character with a good willpower should be able to go face to face
with a force 4 elemental in melee and come out on top. So, in any conflict
against real opposition, your rigger-conjurer should be in danger of losing
from half to all of his elementals. After which he'll need dedicated time
and enough money to re-conjure them again.

On the other hand, if he had full Magic he could have 9 elementals of a
much more impressive force rating. That would be where you'd have to take
care to avoid a game unbalancing character. :-)

>Although, I have no problem to put them in trouble,
>after 10 years GMing in various game.. you know what I
>mean. ;)

And keep an eye on the other consequences of a low Magic Rating.

I think the rigger-conjurer character can be played cleverly, colorfully
and even comically without being a munchkin. If the player does end up only
acting as a one-man SWAT team, I think you have plenty of ways of bringing
him back down to earth. ;-)


Chris
Message no. 23
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:41:02 +0200
Mike & Linda Frankl wrote:
>
> I don't think that a PC could control a spirit that powerful ("holy shit it
> just ate my liver").


Is playing a spirit with that force level ok?












:)

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 24
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:24:40 +1000
At 12:41 19/08/99 +0200, Barbie LeVile wrote:
>Is playing a spirit with that force level ok?

What ever is OK with the GM and players is OK. I don't think the game
police will be kicking down your doors no matter what you do. :-) But a
force 16 elemental requires, I think, a little bit more than is covered by
the vanilla rules. I'd have the mage constantly fighting to maintain
control of such a humongous beastie and require the player to fully
roleplay this. Everytime the character summoned or commanded the force 16
elemental, I'd have him contest control, wrest obedience by rolling a
control test. And god help the mage if he is ever knocked unconscious. At
least that's the way I'd play it. :-)


Chris
Message no. 25
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:30:19 -0400 (EDT)
Mockingbird wrote:
> Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
> problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
> geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
> Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases. Much easier to
> follow since they can conjuror elementals all night long and have them
> hang around.

But remember that he won't be able to control or banish a spirit he
comes across during the day or outside of the city. Geasa affects all
use of magic.
Message no. 26
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:05:05 -0400
Barbie asked:
> > I don't think that a PC could control a spirit that powerful
> ("holy shit it
> > just ate my liver").
>
>
> Is playing a spirit with that force level ok?

You mean as a character? Hmmm, I would have to look up the spirit stats to
find a level that would be comparable to PC's. I've really never tried, but
I guess a free spirit as a player character would be cool so long as it was
in balance with the other players.

:)

Smilin' Jack

P.S. -- How's Ken? (I'm sorry, I just couldn't let it pass) 8)
Message no. 27
From: Jean-Francois Audet axter@*****.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
> What ever is OK with the GM and players is OK. I
> don't think the game
> police will be kicking down your doors no matter
> what you do. :-) But a
> force 16 elemental requires, I think, a little bit
> more than is covered by
> the vanilla rules. I'd have the mage constantly
> fighting to maintain
> control of such a humongous beastie and require the
> player to fully
> roleplay this. Everytime the character summoned or
> commanded the force 16
> elemental, I'd have him contest control, wrest
> obedience by rolling a
> control test. And god help the mage if he is ever
> knocked unconscious. At
> least that's the way I'd play it. :-)

To return to my original topic, I think I wouldn't
mind much if my player [conjurer-rigger] get himself
up to 9 elemental since rigger are subject to heavy
stun damage and being unconscious would mean up to 9
elemental trying to get free...
==Jeff
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Message no. 28
From: Elindor Quinn rjakins@****.murdoch.edu.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:50:04 +0800
Richard Tomasso indicated Re: Conjurer and Magic Attribute

> Mockingbird wrote:
> > Can't the conjourer take Geases to help alleviate some of the
> > problems of this? Take location (city), time (night), and one other
> > geas and they are back up to 4 Magic, and therfore can handle upto to
> > Force 8 spirits as long as they follow the geases. Much easier to
> > follow since they can conjuror elementals all night long and have them
> > hang around.
>
> But remember that he won't be able to control or banish a spirit he
> comes across during the day or outside of the city. Geasa affects all use
> of magic.

Not fulfilling a Geas, at least for magicians rather than adepts,
means that you take target number penalties, rathger than not be
able to do it period.

Elindor Quinn
So what? I mean, it was officially ruled an accident...
Message no. 29
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:34:58 +0200
Mike & Linda Frankl wrote:
>

> You mean as a character? Hmmm, I would have to look up the spirit stats to
> find a level that would be comparable to PC's. I've really never tried, but
> I guess a free spirit as a player character would be cool so long as it was
> in balance with the other players.
>
Want rules for it? :)

and of course as character, why not if it fits the story?
>
> P.S. -- How's Ken? (I'm sorry, I just couldn't let it pass) 8)

I think you need to be killed for that, slow and very painful....

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
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barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

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Message no. 30
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:09:28 +0200
According to Richard Tomasso, at 15:30 on 19 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> But remember that he won't be able to control or banish a spirit he
> comes across during the day or outside of the city. Geasa affects all
> use of magic.

"Won't be able" is a bit of an overstatement. "Has a harder time"
would be
more accurate -- the +1 TN and -1 Magic Attribute per geas hurts, but it
doesn't make things impossible (of course, banishing will get rather
difficult, but still, the conjurer could give it a go).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
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Message no. 31
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:39:05 +1000
At 21:22 19/08/99 -0700, Jean-Francois Audet wrote:
>To return to my original topic, I think I wouldn't
>mind much if my player [conjurer-rigger] get himself
>up to 9 elemental since rigger are subject to heavy
>stun damage and being unconscious would mean up to 9
>elemental trying to get free...

They pop the door open to rescue their unconscious rigger only to find he's
somehow been burnt, suffocated, battered and drowned. Definately an x-file. :-)


Chris
Message no. 32
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Conjurer and Magic Attribute
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:26:02 -0400
Barbie offered:
> Want rules for it? :)

Sure, hit me!

> > P.S. -- How's Ken? (I'm sorry, I just couldn't let it pass) 8)
>
> I think you need to be killed for that, slow and very painful....

So what your saying is your more a G.I. Joe kinda gal?

;)

Smilin' Jack

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