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Message no. 1
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <CRAIGTW1@******.JUNIATA.EDU>
Subject: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 17:38:02 -0400
ERROR: This message seems to be empty. It is located at LOG9310C.RN::470609,263.
Message no. 2
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@*******.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 09:16:33 EST
Guys!

Lose the stuff about US politics from here, eh?

Some of us really don't give a rat's, ok?

Thanks,

Chris
Message no. 3
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 20:55:30 GMT
>>To all of you out here on this list:

Opinion deleted.

>>It's time that I get down off of my soapbox, I'm going to lose my temper.


Folks, I thought I made it clear, and that a number of TOLM agreed that we
are not discussing real-world politics here, this is not the place for it, the
only jokes I made were in a bi-partisan context. Keep your bloody political
opinions off the list. . .satire is one thing but soapboxing is another.

J Roberson
I don't care WHO you voted for, it won't change things now.
Message no. 4
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 18:54:41 -0400
>From Tom Craig:
> I voted for Bush. I predicted that Clinton was out to destroy this
>country, BEFORE the election...DURING the campaign, so far he has done
>EVERYTHING to make my prediction true. I had hoped I was wrong, but it
>doesn't seem that way. Besides Clinton has no backbone, look how much he
>"compromised" during his term in office...He hasn't stuck to his guns,
folks.
>He's threatened the Serbs with bombing raids...what is it..SIX times, now?
>And hasn't carried through yet, at least the last time I heard. Look how
>long our troops have been in Somalia, they were supposed to be out after the
>relief effort was over; BUT they're still in there. Look at how much just
>.
>.
>.

Ya know, a lot of that sounds exactly like why I voted for Perot. I picked
Perot over Bush mostly because Perot has the guts to try something and make
it work, while Bush just sat back responding to the recent gallup poll...

--Short Fuse

//\\
<< >> "Yeah, so it's a 4-pointed star. What's your point?"
\\//
Message no. 5
From: Justin Kim <jlkim@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 16:54:06 -0800
>To all of you out here on this list:
>
> I voted for Bush. I predicted that Clinton was out to destroy this
<Stuff deleted>
> It's time that I get down off of my soapbox, I'm going to lose my
>temper.
> Tom Craig
> craigtw1@******.juniata.edu

Yes, please do. Does this thread have *anything* at all to do with
Shadowrun?

If you folks (not just the person I quoted above) have a problem
with the current U.S. President (or not as the case may be), take it to
talk.politics, spray paint some political graffitti, write a letter to him,
your local newspaper, or your congressperson, but just please take it out
of here, ok?

<flame off>

Justin

P.S. Sorry if this post sounds a little rude-nothing personal is meant by
it. I've been working 11 and 12 hour days for the past five days and am a
little tired and cross. So much for posting only when you have a clear
mind :-) [which never happens in my case, anyway].

--------
Justin Kim jlkim@****.edu Defense Analyst
Science Applications International Corporation San Diego, California USA
I'm paid to have opinions. If SAIC wants them, they had better pay me for them!
"The perimeter sensors are picking up subspace ocilations. What the hell
does that mean?" -Major Kira Nerys, DS9
Message no. 6
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 02:00:45 EST
To quote Thomas W. Craig:
]
] I predicted that Clinton was out to destroy this country, BEFORE the
] election...DURING the campaign, so far he has done EVERYTHING to make
] my prediction true.

And pray tell what was this "prediction" based upon?
"destroy this country"??? What among his campaign pledges,
or the Democratic platform made you arrive at this decision?


] Besides Clinton has no backbone, look how much he "compromised" during
] his term in office...He hasn't stuck to his guns, folks.

Compromised? Last time I looked into our current government,
it is based upon compromise. I tend to think that is what
politics is all about in a bi cameral, checks and balances
system.

And of course, his republican predecessors never compromised right?

] He's threatened the Serbs with bombing raids...what is it..SIX times, now?
] And hasn't carried through yet, at least the last time I heard.

Last time I heard it was a United Nations mission, which means
he doesn't have the ability to pull some John Wayne "Kill'em
All and Let God Sort 'em Out" tactic.


] Look how long our troops have been in Somalia, they were supposed to be
] out after the relief effort was over; BUT they're still in there.

Last time I checked the Warlords were inhibiting the relief
efforts- so since the relief effort is not over....


] Look at how much just before he took his Oath of Office he claimed that
] the economy was turning up because he was elected and the people were
] relieved...

No Claim... just a fact. This theory on political economy has
been empirically tested. But to be fair, Billy had nothing
to do with it- the "good feelings" spread no matter which
individual is elected as long as he (or she) is elected with
a strong support base. If you really want to look it up I
believe it was Carmines and Stimson who did the work- it should
be in the Amer. Pol. Sci. Review. But I could be wrong- I
am a political communication major.


] then when just after a few weeks the economy slid...he BLAMED it on
] BUSH and REAGAN.

Of course they did not contribute to it! He, in a brief few
weeks had total mastery of his office and manipulated the
economy...

] Trickle Down economics works, people.

In a complete vaccuum perhaps. Honestly I do not know a great
deal about economics *but* I have been informed that for every
economist that say "Ye" you will find an equally qualified,
apolitical economist who say "No Way"...

] Look at the economy of the '80's, it was a time of great prosperity for
] all in the USA.

Are you truly this naieve? I bet you are from some middle class
suburb eh? Just out of curiousity what social status do you
come from? What do yor parents do for a living?

How can you make such a claim that "it was a time of great
prosperity for all" with the levels of unemployment and the
immense numbers of people living below poverity?


] The only reason the economy crashed was because of the tax bills Reagan
] and Bush signed.

BUSH SIGNED A TAX BILL?!?!?! But I *read* his lips.....

] Clinton signed the EXACT same bill that Bush signed and caused Bush to
] lose the election, not too long ago. I should know, when I was a senior
] in High School I did research on "The Budget Crisis" in 1990.

Pray tell, what were your sources for this illuminating paper?
What "research" did you carry out?

] It's time that I get down off of my soapbox, I'm going to lose my
] temper.
]
Its refreshing to find someone with such a passion for his
candidate.

Listen.. I am not trying to slam you too much. But to adopt such
a partisan attitude regarding the state of this nation is nothing
more than a delusion. I am not a supporter of Bill Clinton by
any means... in a few years I will be roasting the liberals when
Quayle or whichever republican candidate is elected and they
spew the same partisan drek (see a shadowrun term so that this
who lecture is applicable to shadowrn!)...


-Da Minotaur
Message no. 7
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 16:00:45 BST
>
> Guys!
>
> Lose the stuff about US politics from here, eh?
>
> Some of us really don't give a rat's, ok?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris

Seconded !!

--
Phillip Steele - Email addres P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
Message no. 8
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 11:25:11 -0500
On Fri, 22 Oct 1993, The Powerhouse wrote:

> > Guys!
> > Lose the stuff about US politics from here, eh?
> > Some of us really don't give a rat's, ok?
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
>
> Seconded !!

Thirded. Motion carries.

Enough, now.

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ <[} Hatred is NOT a family value
{[> \ /__ <]} -=-=-
{[> aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu \/ / <]} Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key
{[> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu \/ <]} Finger for Geek Code Info
-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GSS d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 9
From: Mark Imbriaco <mai@**.ODU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 12:23:33 -0400
GET THE POLITICAL CRAP OUT OF THIS LIST! It is quite annoying. If I wanted
to read a political argument, I'd read a newsgroup for it!
Message no. 10
From: "GCS/MU d? -P+ c++ l u-(+) e+(++) m(+)(*)@ s/+ n-(---) h f+@ w+
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 12:49:01 -0400
>Folks, I thought I made it clear, and that a number of TOLM agreed that we
>are not discussing real-world politics here, this is not the place for it, the
>only jokes I made were in a bi-partisan context. Keep your bloody political
>opinions off the list. . .satire is one thing but soapboxing is another.
>
>J Roberson
>I don't care WHO you voted for, it won't change things now.


Fine... I'll wipe the blood off them first.. ya happy now?

--Short Fuse

//\\
<< >> "Run away! Run away! And when in doubt, RUN AWAY!"
\\//
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 02:34:09 +0930
>
>I will stay away from temporal political machinations while elaborating upon
>a point Info Static touched upon:
>
>>. . .nothing will get better until more than fifty percent of the population
>>votes in ALL elections, not just the election of the Prez. One man can only
>>do so much, and the system is set-up to limit the power of one person/group
>>(in theory, anyway). *dismounting soapbox, thanks and have a good day*
>
>In GURPS Cyberpunk (and many poli-sci classes, I assume) they discuss the
>tyranny of the minority. As in:
>
>50% of the population votes.
>60% of the vote (or 30% of the population) enact a measure making Blueberry
>Muffins REQUIRED EATING for jobs, housing, etc.
>
>A Minority of less than a third of the population has just made life difficult
>for people who don't like blueberry muffins.
>
>Worse yet, they could make soy products required, ostracizing or even killing
>Doom and his ilk.
>
>You may laugh, but it is something to consider. Not just for real life, but
>for plots.
>
>
>J Roberson
>

In one of Robert A. Heinlein's series of books (the one the Howard Families
form a part of), the United States has an election in the mid 21st century, in
which, thanks to a fear campaign, less than 10% of the populace vote, and thus
a religious dictatorship gets into power unanimously.
This results in the first constitional convention in God knows how long. And
the next election isn't held.

Of course, you could go the route we did, and I think Canada also: compulsory
voting. This doesn't mean we get a better quality of government, it just means
the politicians spend time convincing us to vote for them, rather than
convincing their own supporters to bother turning up.

--
Robert Watkins
bob@******.cs.ntu.edu.au
************ It wouldn't be luck if you could get out of life alive. ***********
Message no. 12
From: Christina Johnson <johnson1@**.UWP.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 12:41:01 -0500
I's gots two woyrds fer you's bums...

Shudda fuggup.

(sorry. A friend used to say that ALL the time. And i just learned how
to spell it that way....)

Now back to our regularily scheduled tangent...
Message no. 13
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 17:09:26 -0400
This isn't a politics list, unless you want to construct Shadowrun future
histories. Let's keep it relevant. No, I don't care how ticked off you are
about the current political situation; vent your spleen elsewhere.

Me, I voted Scorched Earth, and I'm getting tempted to apply their
policies to this 'discussion'.

- cks
Message no. 14
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conservative revenge aka Soapbox
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 17:29:54 GMT
>Of course, you could go the route we did, and I think Canada also: compulsory
>voting. This doesn't mean we get a better quality of government, it just means
>the politicians spend time convincing us to vote for them, rather than
>convincing their own supporters to bother turning up.

Do you mean a hypothetical government that would check the records to see if
you voted or not? Neat idea. . .yet another datum to play with when ruining
someone's life.


J Roberson

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