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Message no. 1
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:27:41 -0500
I've just started a new high-power shadworun campaign which will probably
be something along the lines of the lord of the rings.
Basically, it's centered around 9 rings whose powers, if combined, can
raise the mana levels of earth drastically, which would allow, amongst
other things, Horrors to come in.
One of the PCs' father found out a tiny bit of the conspiracy; he was
killed. Luckily for the PC, the father was nice enough to pay him a
complete change of identity, thus saving his life.
The pc in question has one of the rings, but it is still unactivated -and
he doesn't know of the ring's power, let alone how to activate it.
Mr. Darke has 2 rings, Lung has 1, some Tir princes (and some IEs) could
have most of the other rings. The Draco foundation keeps 1, and one of them
might be hidden in Tibet.

Darke, and Aztlan/Aztechnology, as well as a clique of "evil" IEs/Tir
princes are seeking to gain all of those rings.
They successfully manipulate the Ghost Cartels, and, to some extent since
Dunky's death, Lucien Cross.


Now, I do have a few questions:
1- which immortal elves are likely to support/oppose Darke?
2-Lung would surely want to keep his ring to himself, making him, and his
Triad, ennemies of Darke. So would teh Draco Foundation. However, if, to
complicate things a bit, I'd give one rings to Lofwyr, what would he do?
3-does that plot makes *any* sense?
4-is there any way to include Deus in that?

Well, I guess that's all for now.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 2
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:19:38 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Aewyn <labsyn@*********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:27 AM
Subject: Conspiracy


> Now, I do have a few questions:
> 3-does that plot makes *any* sense?

Yes. I like it. you have found a way of including all the original SR
elements and NPCs in a campaign that is uniquely your own (although borrowed
a bit from LotR). It will be fun when/if the PC's realise that they can find
clues in JRR's books.

> 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?

There must be...

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 3
From: Gordon McCormick gmcc@*********.ie
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:36:48 +0100
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 03:19:38PM +0200, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
>
> > 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?
>
> There must be...

Perhaps one of the designers of Deus had some form of cryptic
clue that could lead to the discovery of one of the rings. She
reckoned that with enough computing power the riddle could be
cracked, and since she was working on a really powerful computer...

So now Deus has the information on where one of the rings is.
He's even gone so far as to work out that it's uber-powerful
and wants it for himself so he sets up a situation which will
lure the current owner to the Arcology where he can get his mitts
on it. Perhaps he has the lover of the ring-owner trapped?

Or perhaps he'll offer a group of runners who can make it through
the arcology the chance to work for him in retrieving the ring. He
figures that if they can get that far then they can get the ring
from the bottom of the Caspian Sea (or wherever it is).

Alternatively, Deus could dislike the rings and have worked out
a way to destroy them. Perhaps Deus feels the rings have to be
destroyed and the arcology has been turned into a ring-breaking
machine. All the experiments are to figure out exactly how to
do this breaking.

The Arcology could be the Mount Doom of the game... :)

just some ideas,
gordon
Message no. 4
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:01:58 -0400
Interesting...a mix of the nine rings for mortal men (doomed to die) and of
course the seven hidden elven rings. All rolled up into the one ring to rule
them all. And the Horrors have been cast as...Sauron? The Ringwraiths?
No...Aztlan would have the Ringwraiths...were you planning anything for
that? Any kind of archetype?

Like say a modern Ringwraith. The undead on motorcycles! Even have them
carrying swords and all that. I think the cool potential for a campaign like
this is unlimited! (of course I was raised on the Tolkien Trilogy and I
can't wait for the new movies to come out!)
Message no. 5
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:07:18 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon McCormick" <gmcc@*********.ie>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


> On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 03:19:38PM +0200, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
> >
> > > 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?
> >
> > There must be...

> The Arcology could be the Mount Doom of the game... :)

How about this. Since your going about making a LOTR type campaign, try
combining Mount Doom with the the Character Golom <sp>. Deus taking the
part of the dragon Smaug, and of course on thier way in dealing with
whatever your sending them into the Archology on they run into one poor
insane individual who has one of the rings and was trappped with the arc
sealed itself up.

Kinda the whole Hobbit book type beginning.

Just an odd thought.

Jalong1
Message no. 6
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:54:50 -0400
>How about this. Since your going about making a LOTR type campaign, try
>combining Mount Doom with the the Character Golom <sp>. Deus taking the
>part of the dragon Smaug, and of course on thier way in dealing with
>whatever your sending them into the Archology on they run into one poor
>insane individual who has one of the rings and was trappped with the arc
>sealed itself up.
>
>Kinda the whole Hobbit book type beginning.
>
>Just an odd thought.
>
>Jalong1
>
>
Dayamn...this one just keeps getting bettah and bettah! I'm likin'! Hey,
where is this campaign being run and is there any way I can get in on it if
I'll be close enough?!?
Message no. 7
From: Drew Curtis dcurtis@***.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Aewyn wrote:

> Now, I do have a few questions:
> 1- which immortal elves are likely to support/oppose Darke?
>
I would guess they're all likely to oppose him, with the exception of ones
which may be horror-tainted. None of them (imo) seem to be evil per se,
just at odds with each other. I'd say have one of them get horror tainted
and go to town.

> 2-Lung would surely want to keep his ring to himself, making him, and his
> Triad, ennemies of Darke. So would teh Draco Foundation. However, if, to
> complicate things a bit, I'd give one rings to Lofwyr, what would he do?
>
Probably just sit on it, no doubt he has other powerful things. He might
however go after the others if you want him to be more active. He's
relatively unchallenged as far as things go (with the exception of events
portrayed in Ragnarok, which to detail here would spoil the book for some
folks)

> 3-does that plot makes *any* sense?
>
One major missing point: what do the individual rings do for the
owner? Or do they only work when combined?

> 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?
>
Yes, I think the interpretation is wide open on how. He might not want
the magic level to increase because it is a threat to him or because he
can't predict accurately what the effects will be. He might want to be in
control of great power as well. The problem with Deus imo is that aside
from him being a psychotic entity, his motivations are not well
explained. The RA:S and Mindprobe books seemed to indicate that he wanted
to be able to escape the confines of the arcology, past that who
knows? You could either protray him as psychotic or as an entity willing
to do whatever it takes to reach a goal, even if it means doing some
pretty sick things.

The question would be what would benefit Deus most?

Drew Curtis President DCR.NET (502)226-3376
Local Internet access: Frankfort Lawrenceburg Shelbyville Owenton
Louisville Lexington Versailles Nicholasville Midway

http://www.fark.com: If it's not news, it's fark.
Message no. 8
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:20:17 GMT
>From: Gordon McCormick <gmcc@*********.ie>
> > > 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?
> >
> > There must be...
>
>Perhaps
<snip>

No, no, please God no! Nice ideas, but with the Archology FASA have made a
story line which does not have anything to do with magic, immortal elves or
dragons; something not orientated around magical characters dragging the
normal guys along with them. Please do not let a plot sprung from
technology get wrapped up in another magical plot of epic proportions.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 9
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:30:11 -0400
>No, no, please God no! Nice ideas, but with the Archology FASA have made a
>story line which does not have anything to do with magic, immortal elves or
>dragons; something not orientated around magical characters dragging the
>normal guys along with them. Please do not let a plot sprung from
>technology get wrapped up in another magical plot of epic proportions.
>

LoL! I see you like the magic system about as much as I do! Though I do
intend to try to get to understand it a little better. Because my fiancee
has a thing for playing mages...
Message no. 10
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:37:02 GMT
>From: "James Mick" <sinabian@********.net>
>LoL! I see you like the magic system about as much as I do! Though I do
>intend to try to get to understand it a little better. Because my fiancee
>has a thing for playing mages...

Actually I do like the magic system - although I can see why I would give
the impression that I don't. Its the decking rules that make my head hurt
:)>

What I'm not a huge fan of is the way that anything big in SR seems to be
orientated around magic - Bug City, Dunklezahn's assaination, more IE
evidence than we really need. There has been plots like Mob War and Renraku
Archology: Shutdown that are not based around huge magical things, but every
other occurance in the sixth world is just another leap in the magical SOTA.
Just my opinon though; some people just can't get enough of those crazy
dragons :)>

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
________________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:53:32 -0400
>Actually I do like the magic system - although I can see why I would give
>the impression that I don't. Its the decking rules that make my head hurt
>:)>
>

That's the one I have a major problem with. I usually circumvent it by just
any time any decking needs to go on I send a decker NPC with the group and
just use him for a plot device and the runners' job is to cover his ass.
Fortunately I've never had anybody (myself included) who wanted to be a
decker so this hasn't been a problem.
Message no. 12
From: Gordon McCormick gmcc@*********.ie
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 21:36:05 +0100
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 06:20:17PM +0000, Phil Smith wrote:
>
> No, no, please God no! Nice ideas, but with the Archology FASA have made a
> story line which does not have anything to do with magic, immortal elves or
> dragons; something not orientated around magical characters dragging the
> normal guys along with them. Please do not let a plot sprung from
> technology get wrapped up in another magical plot of epic proportions.

Well, his campaign description was kinda magically epic :)

gordon
Message no. 13
From: Grey metis76@*****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 14:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
Someone asked before about this but I didn't see any
answers, so I'll bring it up again, because I am
totally loving this thread.

Do the rings have any powers of their own while they
are not all put together?

I'm thinking they could be types of low level foci of
some type. Power foci, a weapon foci that aids in
unarmed combat, spirit foci, etc.. What do you guys
think?

Also, how big are these rings? Are they the kind that
fit on a finger or are they just a circle of metal,
therefore being referred to as a ring?

Grey

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Message no. 14
From: C J Tipton arkades@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:03:52 -0500
For those of you who have ED books and have no fear of magical elements
of your campaign getting way out of hand,
I might suggest that you think bad thoughts in Deus direction, pick up
the ED Horrors sourcebook, and look up a lovely
bugger called the Artificer. Lotsa stuff in common with the Evil AI, and
possibly the same thing, ya?

Horrors can mark not only people, but places and items as well. How's a
horror marked AI grab you? Not that the entire arcology doesn't scream
Parlainth at me!

Likin' the whole Golum bit though.

COWBOY(hates hobbits)
CJ
Arkades@****.com


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Message no. 15
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:49:16 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "C J Tipton" <arkades@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 4:03 PM
Subject: RE:Conspiracy


> For those of you who have ED books and have no fear of magical elements
> of your campaign getting way out of hand,
> I might suggest that you think bad thoughts in Deus direction, pick up
> the ED Horrors sourcebook, and look up a lovely
> bugger called the Artificer. Lotsa stuff in common with the Evil AI, and
> possibly the same thing, ya?

It might, but it's not. It's been explained many a time, and heard by a
number of people that Deus is not a Horror. Some have even heard it from
the DLOH himself.

However that doesn't mean that if you want deus to be a horror that you
can't do so. After all that's part of the fun of being a GM, taking what
you got and twisting it to fit your needs.

> Horrors can mark not only people, but places and items as well. How's a
> horror marked AI grab you? Not that the entire arcology doesn't scream
> Parlainth at me!

Hmm, nope fraid not. I've had a ED character run around in that city.
While I can see how you might come to that conclusion, I'm afraid the feel
of the two places is just to different for me to think so.


Jalong1
Message no. 16
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:44:02 -0500
From: C J Tipton
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 4:04 PM

> For those of you who have ED books and have no fear of magical
> elements of your campaign getting way out of hand, I might suggest
> that you think bad thoughts in Deus direction, pick up the ED
> Horrors sourcebook, and look up a lovely bugger called the Artificer.
> Lotsa stuff in common with the Evil AI, and possibly the same thing, ya?

Cowboy, you just don't get it, do you?

It's not that we're afraid of magical elements in our campaigns. Hell, my
campaign is built around magical elements (and I *never* thought that would
happen in a million years). But some of us are sick and tired of *EVERY
DAMN THING* big that happens in the SR universe being magical in nature...as
if nothing artificial, man-made, could be big and dangerous, our own sorry
history as a race notwithstanding.

So here we have the ultimate man-made disaster, the biggest, nastiest
non-magical event to ever take place in the game universe...and now we see
people want to make it into yet another Horror crossover. And it really
bugs the hell out of some of us.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 17
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:28:44 EDT
In a message dated 8/4/00 5:12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, metis76@*****.com
writes:

> I'm thinking they could be types of low level foci of
> some type. Power foci, a weapon foci that aids in
> unarmed combat, spirit foci, etc.. What do you guys
> think?
>
> Also, how big are these rings? Are they the kind that
> fit on a finger or are they just a circle of metal,
> therefore being referred to as a ring?
>
> Grey

You could have each add to a different attribute, skill, etc...wearing it
gives a character a bonus along teh lines of whatever the ring was related
to, also making anyone having several truly powerful...and of course the one
ring makes a character invisble!

Syphon
"All that glitters is not gold, not all those who wander are lost"
Message no. 18
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:15:16 -0400
Phil Smith wrote:

> What I'm not a huge fan of is the way that anything big in SR seems to be
> orientated around magic - Bug City, Dunklezahn's assaination, more IE
> evidence than we really need. There has been plots like Mob War and Renraku
> Archology: Shutdown that are not based around huge magical things, but every
> other occurance in the sixth world is just another leap in the magical SOTA.

This is some sense to this. Think of it this way, humanity as a whole
is very comfortable with mundane technology so when something truly
new (magic) comes along it's going to stand out almost every time a
new "advance" is made in that area.

> Just my opinon though; some people just can't get enough of those crazy
> dragons :)>

And just how would the arrival of magic, dragons, and elves be
recieved by those people who grew up playing "fantasy" games in the
'80s and '90s?

You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying to
prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a "fantasy"
setting. ;)


--
Iridios
--
Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and restart
body.

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
9:06:17 PM/226:03:01 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 19
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:02:29 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Iridios <iridios@********.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy



>And just how would the arrival of magic, dragons, and elves be
>recieved by those people who grew up playing "fantasy" games in the
>'80s and '90s?
>
>You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying to
>prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a "fantasy"
>setting. ;)
>
You know whoever first (within the game world) coined the word "ork" to
describe thse poor goblinised kids must have been a role player, nobody else
knows what an ork is.
Message no. 20
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:11:08 -0500
At 08:36 -0500 04/08/2000, Gordon McCormick enlightened us on the topic of
Re: Conspiracy:


>The Arcology could be the Mount Doom of the game... :)

Perhaps. I guess that it would depend on whether or not the PCs decide that
simply destroying the rings might be easier than trying to keep them away
from Darke and company.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 21
From: Labrecque labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:15:18 -0500
At 09:01 -0500 04/08/2000, James Mick enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:
>And the Horrors have been cast as...Sauron? The Ringwraiths?
>No...Aztlan would have the Ringwraiths...were you planning anything for
>that? Any kind of archetype?

Not really.
Actually, the Horrors would probably only be Darke's pawns (and his main
source of powers); with the rings giving him control over mana levels, if
he succeeds on getting all of them, he could simply raise the mana level
untill Horrors can come. He could perhaps control the Horrors simply by
threatening to lower the mana levels again.

Sauron would be Darke himself, I guess. He is, after all, the bad guy who
needs the rings to gain enormous amounts of power.

>Like say a modern Ringwraith. The undead on motorcycles! Even have them
>carrying swords and all that.

Unique spirits, not too unlike the Wild Hunt?
Cyberzombies?
*If* Deus get involved, and is a "bad guy", weird drones from the arcology?

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 22
From: Labrecque labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:16:55 -0500
At 10:54 -0500 04/08/2000, James Mick enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:

>Dayamn...this one just keeps getting bettah and bettah! I'm likin'! Hey,
>where is this campaign being run and is there any way I can get in on it if
>I'll be close enough?!?

It's run in Montreal.
Well, as we actually could use a few more players, I guess you could.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 23
From: Labrecque labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:22:49 -0500
At 11:28 -0500 04/08/2000, Drew Curtis enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:
>On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Aewyn wrote:
>


>> 3-does that plot makes *any* sense?
>>
>One major missing point: what do the individual rings do for the
>owner? Or do they only work when combined?

When combined, they could be used to control the mana levels, thus
allowing/preventing the Horrors from coming.

Individually, each ring would have its own powers. However, it must be
"activated" before it can be used -still working on that one, tho.

Perhaps they would be high-rating power foci, or could help reduce drain,
or something entirely different.


>The question would be what would benefit Deus most?

My guess is that if magic rises, technology loses its power relatively to
magic. Therefore,it might be preferable from Deus to oppose Darke's plans.
Which would make him a good guy.
Unless, of course, the PCs decide not to destroy the ring(s) they stumble
upon, and Deus send hish henchmen after them, too.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 24
From: Labrecque labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:25:07 -0500
At 16:11 -0500 04/08/2000, Grey enlightened us on the topic of Re: Conspiracy:


>Do the rings have any powers of their own while they
>are not all put together?

Yes, tho those individual power will seem insignificant when compared to
the ability to control Horrors.

>I'm thinking they could be types of low level foci of
>some type. Power foci, a weapon foci that aids in
>unarmed combat, spirit foci, etc.. What do you guys
>think?
>
>Also, how big are these rings? Are they the kind that
>fit on a finger or are they just a circle of metal,
>therefore being referred to as a ring?

They'll probably be finger-fitting rings, tho that might always changes if
I get a better idea.
Message no. 25
From: Hangfire hangfire@*********.net.au
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 12:40:16 +1000
> You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying to
> prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a "fantasy"
> setting. ;)
> --
> Iridios

for some reason, that makes a whole lotta sense :)

Mik

*********************************************
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
********************************************
Message no. 26
From: Jill jmenning@***********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:45:35 -0500
At 10:25 PM 8/4/00, Labrecque wrote:

>They'll probably be finger-fitting rings, tho that might always changes if
>I get a better idea.

Variant on puzzle rings?

Jill
Message no. 27
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:10:06 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Aewyn <labsyn@*********.com>
> 1- which immortal elves are likely to support/oppose Darke?

As Darke's plan involves facilitating the return of "The Enemy", I doubt
very highly that any of the Immortals -- who are all too aware ofthe havoc
they would wreak -- would support his goals (unless they were, as previously
mentioned, corrupted).

At the same time, I don't think that very many of them would actively oppose
him. Harlequin probably would, and I presume the Draco Foundation would as
well (though covertly). I think most of the others are too wrapped up in
their own power games to take an active part.

> 2-Lung would surely want to keep his ring to himself, making him, and his
> Triad, ennemies of Darke. So would teh Draco Foundation. However, if, to
> complicate things a bit, I'd give one rings to Lofwyr, what would he do?

Well, I think that the Dragons are egotisitical to an immense degree -- the
only one who seemed to have any grasp of the true danger the Enemy presents
in the sixth world is (the late, lamented) Dunkelzahn. Given their
"phenomenal cosmic power" I'm sure that the Dragons aren't too concerned
with the problem at the moment.

> 3-does that plot makes *any* sense?

It does, actually. I'm impressed.

> 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?

I'll comment on this a little later, but why the hell not?

-- Josh
Message no. 28
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:17:36 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
> Interesting...a mix of the nine rings for mortal men (doomed to die) and
of
> course the seven hidden elven rings. All rolled up into the one ring to
rule
> them all.

The actual breakdown was:

"Three rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."

The nine are held by the Nazgul, the seven were lost or destroyed, and the
three are still held in secret (Elrond holds one, Galadriel the second, and
Gandalf the third). It's nitpicking, I know, but you might as well get the
details right. (How about Tolkien as an IE, planting clues in his book for
the future?)

> And the Horrors have been cast as...Sauron? The Ringwraiths?

I think that trying to draw too much of a parallel could cause some loss of
credibility. How about this: the Horrors represent the doom that will befall
the world should Sauron (Darke) achieve his ends.

-- Josh
Message no. 29
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:25:25 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
> Not really.
> Actually, the Horrors would probably only be Darke's pawns (and his main
> source of powers); with the rings giving him control over mana levels, if
> he succeeds on getting all of them, he could simply raise the mana level
> untill Horrors can come. He could perhaps control the Horrors simply by
> threatening to lower the mana levels again.

Excuse me while I collapse on the floor in a fit of hysterics. Being a
hard-core ED fan, I find the concept of the Horrors being pawns of Darke
utterly ridiculous. While there are certain types of Horrors that can easily
be controlled, there are a great many of them that are ancient, canny beings
that know all too well how easy it is to corrupt the hearts of men.

If anything, Darke is a pawn of the really big baddies (like, say, Verjigorm
or Ristul). He may believe that he is getting power from them -- in fact, he
probably is. However, if he thinks they're going to not swallow him simply
because he helped them cross the gulf, he has another thing coming. It seems
fairly clear that once they're here, the mana level doesn't really affect
them. (Take, for instance, the appearance of Ysrthgrathe in "Worlds Without
End" -- he's a major Horror that crosses over during a high mana spike, but
is able to stick around once he's crossed and cause all sorts of trouble.)

(As an additional aside, if you are interested in doing something this epic,
I strongly suggest you track down a copy of the Horrors sourcebook for
Earthdawn. I provides wonderful insight into the way these alien creatures
think. I'm sure copies are still availale out there somewhere.)

-- Josh
Message no. 30
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:34:46 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
> My guess is that if magic rises, technology loses its power relatively to
> magic.

I have to say that personally I'm not wild about this strong line that has
been drawn beteween magic and technology. Why do folks assume that if the
mana level rises, tech will stop working?

Magic theory (in both SR and ED) indicates that magic is truly limited only
by the imagination and beliefs of the person wielding it. It is
understandable for the SR setting to have a strong division, because magic
is still relatively new and the world is still trying to integrate the
seemingly opposite aspects of magic and technology.

Currently, there are areas where the two have trouble interacting -- a mage
with cyber loses some of his mojo. But cybermancy seems to indicate that
perhaps magic and tech aren't as incompatible as we've been led to believe.

-- Josh
Message no. 31
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:32:19 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Harrison <mataxes@****.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
>> My guess is that if magic rises, technology loses its power relatively to
>> magic.
>
>I have to say that personally I'm not wild about this strong line that has
>been drawn beteween magic and technology. Why do folks assume that if the
>mana level rises, tech will stop working?
>
It doesn't have to stop working, but if you can either knock down a wall by
hiring a back hoe or maybe using messy explosives, or instead just wave a
hand, why would you use the difficult option? Technology is driven because
we are a lazy bunch who constantly look for easier ways of doing things.
Magic bypasses the need to use tech at all.

>Magic theory (in both SR and ED) indicates that magic is truly limited only
>by the imagination and beliefs of the person wielding it. It is
>understandable for the SR setting to have a strong division, because magic
>is still relatively new and the world is still trying to integrate the
>seemingly opposite aspects of magic and technology.
>
>Currently, there are areas where the two have trouble interacting -- a mage
>with cyber loses some of his mojo. But cybermancy seems to indicate that
>perhaps magic and tech aren't as incompatible as we've been led to believe.
>
Again, as the mana rises, there'll be more adepts. Cybermancy would probably
be phased out as messy and difficult when there is an easier way available.
Message no. 32
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:56:49 +0200
According to Iridios, at 21:15 on 4 Aug 00, the word on the street was...

> You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying to
> prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a "fantasy"
> setting. ;)

You do know what Gygax looks like, right? I have serious problems
picturing him as an elf, let alone an IE :) Though that may be his
cover...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 33
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 08:32:31 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> According to Iridios, at 21:15 on 4 Aug 00, the word on the street was...
>
> > You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying to
> > prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a "fantasy"
> > setting. ;)
>
> You do know what Gygax looks like, right? I have serious problems
> picturing him as an elf, let alone an IE :) Though that may be his
> cover...

Ok, if he isn't an IE then maybe his strings were(are) being pulled by
an IE. ;)

--
Iridios
--
"There's no such thing as an innocent user" (Dark Avenger, in a
Wired interview)

Visit "The ShadowZone"
http://members.xoom.com/Iridios/ShadowZone

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.97d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
8:30:53 AM/75:02:04 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 34
From: Tony Rabiola argent1@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:42:36 -0500
>
> > You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying
to
> > prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a
"fantasy"
> > setting. ;)
>
> You do know what Gygax looks like, right? I have serious
problems
> picturing him as an elf, let alone an IE :) Though that may be
his
> cover...
>

didn't harley made a side comment that it was tolkein letting
things slip too early?

argent
Message no. 35
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:14:42 -0500
At 23:10 -0500 04/08/2000, Josh Harrison enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:


>> 3-does that plot makes *any* sense?
>
>It does, actually. I'm impressed.

So am I... heck, it was my first try at coming up with a "big" plot for
Shadowrun.

Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 36
From: Labrecque labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:19:37 -0500
At 23:25 -0500 04/08/2000, Josh Harrison enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:



>If anything, Darke is a pawn of the really big baddies (like, say, Verjigorm
>or Ristul). He may believe that he is getting power from them -- in fact, he
>probably is. However, if he thinks they're going to not swallow him simply
>because he helped them cross the gulf, he has another thing coming. It seems
>fairly clear that once they're here, the mana level doesn't really affect
>them. (Take, for instance, the appearance of Ysrthgrathe in "Worlds Without
>End" -- he's a major Horror that crosses over during a high mana spike, but
>is able to stick around once he's crossed and cause all sorts of trouble.)

Ok, so Darke *wants* to use them, he *thinks* he'll be able to control them
through the rings, and when the Horrors do come, he get a big, nasty
surpise.
...
I don't know much about Darke -I just know he's this really powerful guy
from Azt who wants the Horrors to come-, but this just seem the only
explanation. Why would someone want Horrors coming, unless he'd think he'd
be able to control them?

>(As an additional aside, if you are interested in doing something this epic,
>I strongly suggest you track down a copy of the Horrors sourcebook for
>Earthdawn. I provides wonderful insight into the way these alien creatures
>think. I'm sure copies are still availale out there somewhere.)

Probably. My local hobby store usually keep stuff for a long time (I bought
ShadowBeat there a bit less than a year ago), and they seel used stuff, too.

Any other Earthdawn books I might find useful for a SD/ED crossover?
Message no. 37
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:22:52 -0500
At 23:34 -0500 04/08/2000, Josh Harrison enlightened us on the topic of Re:
Conspiracy:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
>> My guess is that if magic rises, technology loses its power relatively to
>> magic.
>
>I have to say that personally I'm not wild about this strong line that has
>been drawn beteween magic and technology. Why do folks assume that if the
>mana level rises, tech will stop working?

Tech won't stop working, but, if magic becomes more common and gets a lot
easier, more precise and practical than tech, who will *want* tech anyway?


Farewell,
Aewyn.
--------
There is only one absolute truth about life: it will end.
Reality's unreal.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you"
-Nirvana
Message no. 38
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:50:13 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Labrecque" <labsyn@*********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


> I don't know much about Darke -I just know he's this really powerful guy
> from Azt who wants the Horrors to come-, but this just seem the only
> explanation. Why would someone want Horrors coming, unless he'd think he'd
> be able to control them?

Well there's the always the "It's my god and master, and I live to do it's
will" mindset that some villians tend to have.

> Any other Earthdawn books I might find useful for a SD/ED crossover?

The only other books I can think of would be the Theran Sourcebook. It
details the various areas under Theran rule and includes a map of the Theran
Empire which shows it's location in the European, North African, and Middle
Eastern area. Of course this isn't to much help directly other that show
where the ancient empire was.

The Blood Wood book makes mention of a few of the IE's in in the court of
the Blood Wood, not much else IIRC.

The best book though has not been published (though it will if Livingroom
games can help it) is the Dragons Sourcebook. FASA placed it on thier site
when they discontinued the ED system, though I'm not sure if it's still
there though.

That's about all I can think of.

Jalong1
Message no. 39
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:08:28 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aewyn" <labsyn@*********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


> >From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
> >> My guess is that if magic rises, technology loses its power relatively
to
> >> magic.
> >
> >I have to say that personally I'm not wild about this strong line that
has
> >been drawn beteween magic and technology. Why do folks assume that if the
> >mana level rises, tech will stop working?
>
> Tech won't stop working, but, if magic becomes more common and gets a lot
> easier, more precise and practical than tech, who will *want* tech anyway?


That's simple. Everyone who can't work magic.

Even when magic reaches its height there will be alot of people who will
never be able to maniplate the mana. Technology is in effect the everymans
magic, as in anyone can use it.

Besides if Mankind wants to keep 'reaching for the stars' where magic will
not function, technology is still something that still be needed to be
pursued. Magic can do alot, but it does have it's limitations afterall.

Jalong1
Message no. 40
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 17:23:44 GMT
>From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
>I don't know much about Darke -I just know he's this really powerful guy
>from Azt who wants the Horrors to come-, but this just seem the only
>explanation. Why would someone want Horrors coming, unless he'd think he'd
>be able to control them?

IIRC, he was in the Harlequin's Back adventure.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 41
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:44:38 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Labrecque <labsyn@*********.com>
> Ok, so Darke *wants* to use them, he *thinks* he'll be able to control
them
> through the rings, and when the Horrors do come, he get a big, nasty
> surpise.

Yeah. Sure its cliche -- the bad guy learning at the last moment that he
made a BIG MISTAKE (tm) -- but it works a lot better for the concept of the
Horrors as "ultimate evil" or something like that.

> I don't know much about Darke -I just know he's this really powerful guy
> from Azt who wants the Horrors to come-, but this just seem the only
> explanation. Why would someone want Horrors coming, unless he'd think he'd
> be able to control them?

Perhaps because he's corrupted and serving them? Think along the lines of
Call of Cthulhu with Darke being the Head Cultist/Sorceror Who Knows Too
Much (tm). The big difference is that where the Lovecraftian powers are
alien and don't really have any active malevolence towards humanity (well,
except for that funky Nyarlathotep), the Horrors most assuredly have an
awareness of humanity, and really *enjoy* tormenting them (at least, the
Horrors that are any fun to play are).

> Probably. My local hobby store usually keep stuff for a long time (I
bought
> ShadowBeat there a bit less than a year ago), and they seel used stuff,
too.
>
> Any other Earthdawn books I might find useful for a SD/ED crossover?

Well... looking at my shelf, there are a couple that I can think of. The
Blood Wood gives a good view into the history of the elves, as well as an
idea of what they did to protect themselves from the Horrors the last time
(it's frightening). The Theran Empire will give an idea of just what it is
the Atlantean Foundation is looking for. The Dragons book provides some
great insight into the mindset of the Great Wyrms.

All of those have been mentioned of course. I would say that perhaps another
useful source is the "Secret Societies" book, which has info on a couple of
"evil cults" that might (for one reason or another) still be lurking around
in the 6th World. The Cult of the Great Hunter, for instance could be a
useful model for a group of Horror worshipping cultists.

Oh, if you want to see the "Dragons" book for Earthdawn, here's two places
you can find it online:

FASA's official release, which is the manuscript as it appeared when they
dropped Earthdawn (it has no art, and some of the layout is a little funky).

http://www.fasa.com/earthdawn/Dragondownload.html

And if you prefer an "edited" version that has the layout troubles corrected
(that is, no large spaces for artwork that isn't there and so forth, there
is no change to the content itself) check out the following

http://www.dragonpaw.org/%7Eash/earthdawn/dragons.phtml

Both are in Adobe (i.e. PDF) format. Enjoy.

-- Josh
Message no. 42
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 15:14:28 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Rabiola <argent1@****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


>
>>
>> > You want a conspiracy? How about Gary Gygax was an IE trying
>to
>> > prepare humanity for some of the stranger concepts of a
>"fantasy"
>> > setting. ;)
>>
>> You do know what Gygax looks like, right? I have serious
>problems
>> picturing him as an elf, let alone an IE :) Though that may be
>his
>> cover...
>>
>
>didn't harley made a side comment that it was tolkein letting
>things slip too early?
>
No, really, Tolkein was plagiarising _US_ your honour
hehehe
Message no. 43
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:42:52 -0400
>You know whoever first (within the game world) coined the word "ork" to
>describe thse poor goblinised kids must have been a role player, nobody
else
>knows what an ork is.
>
>

<ahem> Actually, the likelihood that the two categories mesh is astounding
but I would like to point out that I first heard the word "ork" (though it
was spelled orc) in the Tolkien novels. And while most of the people I know
who have read Lord of the Rings have at least played Magic: the Gathering,
not all of them are into roleplaying. (and no, J.R.R. Tolkien, wasn't a
gamer...)
Message no. 44
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:51:02 -0400
>"phenomenal cosmic power"


eety beety living space...
Message no. 45
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:52:24 -0400
::smax his head:: 3! D'oh! That's right. Ummm...Gandalf, Galadriel...and was
it Elrond who had the 3rd? Got the elven rings and the dwarven rings mixed
up. It's been a little while since I've read the trilogy.
Message no. 46
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:54:19 -0400
>The nine are held by the Nazgul, the seven were lost or destroyed, and the
>three are still held in secret (Elrond holds one, Galadriel the second, and
>Gandalf the third). It's nitpicking, I know, but you might as well get the
>details right. (How about Tolkien as an IE, planting clues in his book for
>the future?)

::kablinks:: Oh...I really need to start reading whole emails before
replying to part of them...::grinz sheepishly:: So I've got to ask because I
keep seeing this one pop up... Wut the heck is an IE?!?
Message no. 47
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 00:50:56 +1000
>::smax his head:: 3! D'oh! That's right. Ummm...Gandalf, Galadriel...and was
>it Elrond who had the 3rd? Got the elven rings and the dwarven rings mixed
>up. It's been a little while since I've read the trilogy.

Either Elrond, or (I think) Cirdan the Shipwright, in the Grey Havens.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 48
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:58:34 -0400
>If anything, Darke is a pawn of the really big baddies (like, say,
Verjigorm
>or Ristul). He may believe that he is getting power from them -- in fact,
he
>probably is. However, if he thinks they're going to not swallow him simply
>because he helped them cross the gulf, he has another thing coming. It
seems
>fairly clear that once they're here, the mana level doesn't really affect
>them.


Hrmm...so rather than Sauron, Darke would be more comparable to Saruman.
Message no. 49
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:12:35 -0400
>Tech won't stop working, but, if magic becomes more common and gets a lot
>easier, more precise and practical than tech, who will *want* tech anyway?


Anyone ever try to convince an elder person that new technology isn't
necessarily bad? No matter how beneficial an advance may be, there are just
a lot of people out there who don't like change and will do anything and
everything to resist it. My whole damn hometown is just like that.
Message no. 50
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:20:39 -0400
>The best book though has not been published (though it will if Livingroom
>games can help it) is the Dragons Sourcebook. FASA placed it on thier site
>when they discontinued the ED system, though I'm not sure if it's still
>there though.

It's still there. They just let the web site hang after they discontinued ED
it seems.
Message no. 51
From: Spike spike1@****.freenet.co.uk
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:22:41 +0100 (BST)
And verily, didst James Mick babble thusly...
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
> >The nine are held by the Nazgul, the seven were lost or destroyed, and the
> >three are still held in secret (Elrond holds one, Galadriel the second, and
> >Gandalf the third). It's nitpicking, I know, but you might as well get the
> >details right. (How about Tolkien as an IE, planting clues in his book for
> >the future?)
>
> ::kablinks:: Oh...I really need to start reading whole emails before
> replying to part of them...::grinz sheepishly:: So I've got to ask because I
> keep seeing this one pop up... Wut the heck is an IE?!?

Immortal Elf (Ehran, Harlequin, etc)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spike1@*******.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 52
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:35:59 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
> ::kablinks:: Oh...I really need to start reading whole emails before
> replying to part of them...::grinz sheepishly:: So I've got to ask because
I
> keep seeing this one pop up... Wut the heck is an IE?!?

IE = Immortal Elf

That is to say, Harlequin, Ehran, Alachia and the rest of that crew who were
around during the fourth world (i.e. Earthdawn). According to the "Threats"
SB, "less than 25 Immortal Elves are known to exist, and none have been born
since the Awakening."

-- Josh
Message no. 53
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:37:00 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*********.html.com>
> >::smax his head:: 3! D'oh! That's right. Ummm...Gandalf, Galadriel...and
was
> >it Elrond who had the 3rd? Got the elven rings and the dwarven rings
mixed
> >up. It's been a little while since I've read the trilogy.
>
> Either Elrond, or (I think) Cirdan the Shipwright, in the Grey Havens.

Cirdan gave his ring to Gandalf.

-- Josh
Message no. 54
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:55:39 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
> >If anything, Darke is a pawn of the really big baddies (like, say,
> Verjigorm
> >or Ristul). He may believe that he is getting power from them -- in fact,
> he
> >probably is. However, if he thinks they're going to not swallow him
simply
> >because he helped them cross the gulf, he has another thing coming. It
> seems
> >fairly clear that once they're here, the mana level doesn't really affect
> >them.
>
> Hrmm...so rather than Sauron, Darke would be more comparable to Saruman.

That's a valid comparison, I suppose. But really I think there comes a point
when you just throw the comparisons out the window and go with what works,
rather than try and force it into any specific mold.

Saruman, while tempted by the power of the Rings never actually touched that
power himself. IIRC, he did construct a ring, but it was a very pale
imitation of the others. He was not a willing servant of the Shadow. Darke,
OTOH, has actually touched the power of the Enemy. He is their servant,
actively working for them to return.

I think it's best to just make Darke one of the people after the power the
rings provide. Drawing the parallel between the Rings (from Tolkien) gives
them sufficient draw for any of the major players to want them.

What more could you need?

-- Josh
Message no. 55
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 16:26:30 +1000
At 10:37 PM 7/08/00 -0400, Josh Harrison wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*********.html.com>
>> >::smax his head:: 3! D'oh! That's right. Ummm...Gandalf, Galadriel...and
>was
>> >it Elrond who had the 3rd? Got the elven rings and the dwarven rings
>mixed
>> >up. It's been a little while since I've read the trilogy.
>>
>> Either Elrond, or (I think) Cirdan the Shipwright, in the Grey Havens.
>
>Cirdan gave his ring to Gandalf.

Duh. *sheepish look* I knew he'd had one at one stage though.

Hmm. Cirya, Narya, and... what was the name of the third? Escapes me for
the moment.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 56
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 23:24:24 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*********.html.com>
> Duh. *sheepish look* I knew he'd had one at one stage though.
>
> Hmm. Cirya, Narya, and... what was the name of the third? Escapes me for
> the moment.

Galadriel held Nenya, Elrond held Vilya, and Gandalf held...

The third one (who's name escapes me). Let me grab my book for a sec...

(***flip flip flip***)

Narya.

(This info is found in "The Grey Havens" chapter at the conclusion of
"Return of the King")

-- Josh
Message no. 57
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Conspiracy
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:46:56 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Lars Wagner Hansen <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Conspiracy


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Aewyn <labsyn@*********.com>
> To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:27 AM
> Subject: Conspiracy
>
>
> > 4-is there any way to include Deus in that?
>
> There must be...
>

How about trapping an IE in the Arco, with either the ring on him, or the
combination toa safe or he's the only one who knows where it is etc.

Annachie

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Thwap!