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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ahrain Drigar)
Subject: Contradictions (was Re: Aura Reading)
Date: Thu Nov 1 11:55:00 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: James Zealey <incubus@*********.zzn.com>
Subject: Re: Aura Reading (was SR3 Skills, especially Athletics)


> > "The moment Aura Reading becomes a requirement
> > for assensing," or is treated in the same
> > manner as other active skills,

Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but as I was making a character the
other night I did notice something odd.

Under the description of Aura Reading it does say it can be used as a
complimentary skill for assensing. No problem, not arguing the point, this
has been settled. Personal opinions aside.

However, I did notice one thing. It IS an active skill. Flat out as per
the book. Look at the archetypes. All that have Aura Reading have it in
the Active column. Also, the skill description is located...guess where,
yup in the active skill descriptions.

Now, this is in no way trying to justify anything, but to me the
rules/suggestions on this skill seem contradictory as per straight BTB (i.e.
disregarding house rules).

Can anyone help explain this By The Book? I have already read house rules,
but my GM prefers to at least attempt canon rules first. We are all a
little confused by this one.

Also, are there any other instances that this occurs with other
skills/rules? I haven't run in so long I can't remember anything.

Ahrain
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Contradictions (was Re: Aura Reading)
Date: Thu Nov 1 14:40:01 2001
Ahrain Drigar writes:

> Now, this is in no way trying to justify anything, but to me the
> rules/suggestions on this skill seem contradictory as per straight BTB (i.e.
> disregarding house rules).
>
> Also, are there any other instances that this occurs with other
> skills/rules? I haven't run in so long I can't remember anything.

Well, there's no _requirement_ that a Complimentary skill be a Knowledge
skill... It's probably the most common situation, sure, but there are plenty
of examples where Active skills are used as Complimentary skills. Stealth is
used as a Complimentary skill when making Perception tests to spot someone
hiding, or to spot a tail, for instance. Electronics and Electronics B/R are
quite often appropriate Complimentary skills for each other, too, and
they're both Active skills.

Psychometry is just a little whacked in that it, as written, has no use in
the game at all _except_ as a Complimentary skill. Er, I might be wrong
there - the Offhand Weapon skills are nearly as bad. Barring unusual
circumstances (your primary arm injured, bound, removed, etc), the Offhand
Weapon skills are only ever used as Complimentary skills as far as I can
recall.

Or am I misinterpreting your query? :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ahrain Drigar)
Subject: Contradictions (was Re: Aura Reading)
Date: Mon Nov 5 09:35:03 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Contradictions (was Re: Aura Reading)


> Ahrain Drigar writes:
>
> > Now, this is in no way trying to justify anything, but to me the
> > rules/suggestions on this skill seem contradictory as per straight BTB
(i.e.
> > disregarding house rules).
> >
> > Also, are there any other instances that this occurs with other
> > skills/rules? I haven't run in so long I can't remember anything.
>
> Well, there's no _requirement_ that a Complimentary skill be a Knowledge
> skill... It's probably the most common situation, sure, but there are
plenty
> of examples where Active skills are used as Complimentary skills. Stealth
is
> used as a Complimentary skill when making Perception tests to spot someone
> hiding, or to spot a tail, for instance. Electronics and Electronics B/R
are
> quite often appropriate Complimentary skills for each other, too, and
> they're both Active skills.

This is true. But my querry is, "What's with all the hoop and hollarin'
about it?". In particular someone (can't remember who) complained that Aura
reading shouldn't become a requirement for assensing as it isn't worth the
same karma as other magical skills. Ah...it ALREADY costs the same. It IS
an active skill already. So I ask, "Huh? Where'd this come from?"

IE Aura Reading is an active magic skill, with NO default in the description
(IIRC), but is ONLY used as a complimentary skill for a simple intelligence
roll that only those who can see astral anyway. For not having a default,
being an active skill with only one use, and having to be magically active
to boot, IMHO, I think something is very screwy.

> Psychometry is just a little whacked in that it, as written, has no use in
> the game at all _except_ as a Complimentary skill. Er, I might be wrong
> there - the Offhand Weapon skills are nearly as bad. Barring unusual
> circumstances (your primary arm injured, bound, removed, etc), the Offhand
> Weapon skills are only ever used as Complimentary skills as far as I can
> recall.

True, but the Off Hand weapons skills have more of an impact on game balance
that Aura Reading. Using them as Complimentary skills is FAR better than
the FoF rules, IMHO. : P

> Or am I misinterpreting your query? :-)

Yes and no (see above)

Part of my query is if there are any other references to obvious (to some
people) booboos in the rules like this one.

Ahrain
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Contradictions (was Re: Aura Reading)
Date: Thu Nov 29 03:00:01 2001
Ahrain Drigar writes:

> <Snip Aura Reading being _only_ a Complimentary skill.>
>
> Part of my query is if there are any other references to obvious (to some
> people) booboos in the rules like this one.

Well, half my house rules cover situations like this, I think.

For example, no matter how lucky they get, and how well they Call their
Shot, an average person without a Pistols skill is unable to kill someone
with a Light Pistol. The absolute best that they could do is a Serious
wound. Doesn't this strike you as a little odd?

Also, try the arm wrestling super Troll vs the Dragon. The Troll has a
Stength of about 20, the Dragon about 40. With each other's Strength as
their TN, the arm wrestle will last a _very_ long time indeed! But consider
how much stronger the Dragon is than the Troll. Doesn't this seem a little
odd? If the Strengths were 2 and 4 (the same ratio), the arm wrestle would
last about 1 second.

An unskilled average person has _less_ chance of doing something dangerous
when attempting a task than a minimally trained (Skill 1) individual. The
skill 1 individual has a 1 in 6 chance of disasterously screwing up. The
_totally_unskilled_ person has a 1 in 216 chance. Weird, hey?

According to SR3, a person jumping off a 2m high platform outreacts most
street sammies. They get an automatic Initiative of 30! WTF?!

In SR, you're a better melee combatant if your opponents are heaps faster
then you are! They must literally run onto your sword or something; you kill
them as fast as they can line up.

The average armoured limo is more difficult to affect with a Combat Spell
than a toxic sludge riddled optical supercomputer. I know which one is more
"technologically" complex in my opinion.

A 36 wheeled semi trailer suffers the same modifiers to Handling if it blows
a tyre as a two wheeled motorcycle.

You're better off tying your security drone network in with your cleaning
drone network. The difficulty of cracking in is based upon the number of
drones.

OK, that's all for now.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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