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Message no. 1
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:03:42 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/1998 3:39:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
DCordy@****.COM writes:

> Ok, to take that last paragraph to an extreme. What would happen if a mage
> were to swallow a penny (I don't know where he got it from, he's just got
> it, kay)? The penny is now inside the mage. In your game, would the
mage's
> essence go down? How much? Would the essence rating return to its
original
> value after it had been 'passed through'? And, if no essence lose is
caused
> by swallowing the penny, what is to stop the mage from swallowing the
> fetish?
> Just a thought that I had while eating my lunch.

Don't tell me, let me guess...a penny for your thoughts??? Okay, so it's was
a tasteless pun (copper, get it...tasteless... ;)

Anyway, here's a continuation on your thought. After the penny goes beyond
the stomach and into the intestines, it isn't going to be digested, it'll just
basically sit there and cause all sorts of cramps, pains, or worse, death (no,
I am NOT kidding).
Similar circumstances have occurred.

But anyway, at what stage does something become "a foreign object" to be
disposed of by the body (aka: rejected) and when does it become an "implant",
and thus a permanent part of the body and thereby causing essence loss?

-K
Message no. 2
From: David Cordy <DCordy@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:30:03 -0700
> Don't tell me, let me guess...a penny for your thoughts??? Okay, so it's
> was
> a tasteless pun (copper, get it...tasteless... ;)
>
> But anyway, at what stage does something become "a foreign object" to be
> disposed of by the body (aka: rejected) and when does it become an
> "implant",
> and thus a permanent part of the body and thereby causing essence loss?
>
> -K
>
And that dear K is the essence of my question. :-P Sorry, but you started
it!

Seriously though, there has to be something more then simple rejection or
acceptance for essence loss. Otherwise, how do we classify the Cortex Bomb?
It is implanted, obviously not rejected by the "recipient", and causes no
essence lose. Is it due to the fact, as some have stated, that there is no
control over the implant, therefore no essence lose? I don't know, I will
have to think about this one.

-David
Message no. 3
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:40:14 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/1998 9:53:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
DCordy@****.COM writes:

> And that dear K is the essence of my question. :-P Sorry, but you started
> it!

DID NOT!!! (well, okay, so I did, so there ;P)

> Seriously though, there has to be something more then simple rejection or
> acceptance for essence loss. Otherwise, how do we classify the Cortex
Bomb?
> It is implanted, obviously not rejected by the "recipient", and causes no
> essence lose. Is it due to the fact, as some have stated, that there is no
> control over the implant, therefore no essence lose? I don't know, I will
> have to think about this one.

I keep thinking that the entire reason the Cortex Bomb is "Zero Essence Loss"
is because the game mechanics/writers/developers (and you know who you are ;),
wanted something that didn't penalize a character any more than they are
already being penalized for (as in, here's a permanent death threat...).

IF however, this were not true, then another reason has to exist. Perhaps it
is part of the "integration" question? Does the body utilize it in some
manner, as all cyberware is utilized, either consciously (such as a cranial
cyberdeck) or subconsciously (such as muscle augmentation or the argued over
Wired Reflexes)? IF it is all about integration (and therefore
pattern/biological disturbance), then this answers the Essence Loss question.

If it is not the solution, then it quickly becomes the problem.

At least, IMO

-K
Message no. 4
From: David Cordy <DCordy@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:38:32 -0700
> I keep thinking that the entire reason the Cortex Bomb is "Zero Essence
> Loss"
> is because the game mechanics/writers/developers (and you know who you are
> ;),
> wanted something that didn't penalize a character any more than they are
> already being penalized for (as in, here's a permanent death threat...).
>
I don't know that I like this explanation.

> IF however, this were not true, then another reason has to exist. Perhaps
> it
> is part of the "integration" question? Does the body utilize it in some
> manner, as all cyberware is utilized, either consciously (such as a
> cranial
> cyberdeck) or subconsciously (such as muscle augmentation or the argued
> over
> Wired Reflexes)? IF it is all about integration (and therefore
> pattern/biological disturbance), then this answers the Essence Loss
> question.
>
Partially, unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by subconsciously.
Non-retractable cyber-spurs have an essence lose, but there is no conscious
control over them, or as much control as you have over moving your arm.
Maybe it is due to the fact that the spurs are anchored to the arms in some
fashion. Grafting onto the arm as it is. Hence the higher essence lose for
retractable, as there now has to be a housing for the spurs, the mechanism
to retract them, and the cybernetic control for extension and retraction.
Damn, I guess there has to be an exception to every rule.

If it is simply that the first option is true for the reasons that you
mentioned, then it is just pity essence. And that is sad.

-David
Message no. 5
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:11:37 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/98 1:04:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ereskanti@***.COM writes:

> Anyway, here's a continuation on your thought. After the penny goes beyond
> the stomach and into the intestines, it isn't going to be digested, it'll
> just
> basically sit there and cause all sorts of cramps, pains, or worse, death (
> no,
> I am NOT kidding).
> Similar circumstances have occurred.
>
> But anyway, at what stage does something become "a foreign object" to be
> disposed of by the body (aka: rejected) and when does it become an
"implant",
>
> and thus a permanent part of the body and thereby causing essence loss?

There is a possibility for this, Lofwyr has this nasty habit of injecting
someone with nanites that contain a poison, and doing roughly the same thing
as what happen to Snake Pliskin from the Escape movies, complete this mission
and the poison will be removed (I liked the fact that both poisons were
something along the lines of the flu).

A nanite could be made into a foci, and be inside the person. And the mage
can have the nanite come out every now and then to keep from losing essense
due to long-term inhabitation by the nanite.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 6
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:17:41 -0400
K in the Shadows wrote:

> Anyway, here's a continuation on your thought. After the penny goes beyond
> the stomach and into the intestines, it isn't going to be digested, it'll just
> basically sit there and cause all sorts of cramps, pains, or worse, death (no,
> I am NOT kidding).
> Similar circumstances have occurred.

From the way-too-much-info department: The penny will probably come out
the other end a couple days later. It may be bent, warped, etc, but it
will, unless you have something wrong with your digestive system, turn
up again later. Don't ask how I know this. The penny is in a jar in my
room, though.


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 7
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:38:08 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-21 20:13:40 EDT, you write:

> There is a possibility for this, Lofwyr has this nasty habit of injecting
> someone with nanites that contain a poison, and doing roughly the same
thing
> as what happen to Snake Pliskin from the Escape movies, complete this
> mission
> and the poison will be removed (I liked the fact that both poisons were
> something along the lines of the flu).


Thats a job for carcerands, (Pg, 90, Shadowtech) not nanites.
Message no. 8
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:35:04 -0500
> If it is not the solution, then it quickly becomes the problem.

My take is that it is there as a tool, and follows rules according to game
balance. Essence is a very nebulous concept, and almost preferably a
mechanic outside the realm (in a general sense) of a character's knowledge.
I'd say that cyberdocs (etc.) who deal intimately with Essence only view it
in relation to zero Essence. They know that you're really close to zero, or
really close to unaltered, or about half-way between, but I don't think they
know down to a number (at least in the hundredths that we measure it).

Essence is for the players and the GM, but not necessarily for the
characters.

That said, I also think that Essence is important for role-playing purposes.

So maybe my sentence should read, "Essence (as a very specific, precise,
number) is for the players and the GM, but not necessarily for the
characters".


-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 9
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:34:10 -0400
Quoting XaOs [David Goth] (xaos@*****.NET):
> Essence is for the players and the GM, but not necessarily for the
> characters.
>
> That said, I also think that Essence is important for role-playing purposes.
>
> So maybe my sentence should read, "Essence (as a very specific, precise,
> number) is for the players and the GM, but not necessarily for the
> characters".

This'd be about my read, also. Unfortunately, it's hard to decide
what ought to cost essence and what oughtn't, because it serves two
purposes: IC, it's based on body-integrity and how much your system has
been degraded, and OOC, it's based on game balance. Both the IC and OOC
purposes are important, here.
The cortex bomb, for instance, costs no Essence, IMHO, because
even though it's inside the body, there's no need to game balance it
(and, in fact, game balance gives a reason to give it a 0 cost). And if
you came up with a super-helpful, minimally-intrusive piece of ware, it'd
probably get a high essence cost...not because of IC reasons, but OOC ones.

That said, there ought to be some implants that cost no essence.
However, they'd have to a) not be intrusive and b) not give major game
benefits. For example, a glowing digital 'watch' display implanted just
under the skin on the wrist or hand. With similar technology, moving,
glowing, changing tattoos. Simple timed-release drug systems, like
birth-control implants or the like - only thigns that have a steady schedule
or are constant release. Something like a pacemaker or insulin pump would
be a borderline, and might well cost Essence - small game effect, but
they're non-trivially intrusive.

--Sean
--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 10
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Copper for the Time? (Re: Foci and Fetish question)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:58:48 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/98 8:42:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Starrngr@***.COM writes:

> > There is a possibility for this, Lofwyr has this nasty habit of injecting
> > someone with nanites that contain a poison, and doing roughly the same
> thing
> > as what happen to Snake Pliskin from the Escape movies, complete this
> > mission
> > and the poison will be removed (I liked the fact that both poisons were
> > something along the lines of the flu).
>
>
> Thats a job for carcerands, (Pg, 90, Shadowtech) not nanites.
>
Thanks for correcting me on that one.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

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