Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Cp2020
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 13:19:44 +0100
Hey Ivy,
The Cp2020 system works fine...and the attitude is the
best...
So i had to rework the equipment, gameworld(s) and cybernetics a
little to make it smoother.Nothings perfect

I've found SR in general to be a little generic,and when i run
it i have to add a lot of description...
(i never say a deadly+2 wound if a whistling chest wound fits
better) <GRIN>

I'm converting a load of my custom cybernetics over to SR for
the list...

CHOPPER
Gokuraku Ojo!
Message no. 2
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 07:52:06 -0700
On Fri, 3 Jun 1994, J.W.Thomas wrote:

> Hey Ivy,
> The Cp2020 system works fine...and the attitude is the
> best...

The attitude is great, no doubt at all. It's just that the weapons are
wimpy and the maximum for skills, stats, etc is a 10. Where do you go
after playing daily for a summer? To SRII.

> So i had to rework the equipment, gameworld(s) and cybernetics a
> little to make it smoother.Nothings perfect
>
Yeah, I can dig it.


> I've found SR in general to be a little generic,and when i run
> it i have to add a lot of description...
> (i never say a deadly+2 wound if a whistling chest wound fits
> better) <GRIN>

Hey, Chop, the whole thing is in the descriptions. SRII is a little
light on attitude, but the skill and combat systems are better. So I add
the 'tude myself. If you're happy, keep on CPing. Playin's the thing,
not which game you're in. BTW: The new game is named Hard World. It
lives up to it too. This's one where the smart people really won't want
to go "hard option" too often.


> I'm converting a load of my custom cybernetics over to SR for
> the list...

I wanna see it!


> CHOPPER

Ivy
Message no. 3
From: Tyger09@***.COM
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 21:51:18 EDT
>> The Cp2020 system works fine...and the attitude is the
>> best...

>The attitude is great, no doubt at all. It's just that the weapons are
>wimpy and the maximum for skills, stats, etc is a 10. Where do you go
>after playing daily for a summer? To SRII.

No....

See, we play Cyberpunk all the time here. Our local guru mentions that in
several of the official supliments several of the NPC's have skills over 10.
He also goes on to say that sure, the guns are wimpy is your players are
running around with full Metalgear (TM) all the blasted time. But then, if
you look through 'Protect and Serve' (Good to read for Shadowrun too!) you
note that all the 'heavy' armours are illegal and hard to get on the street.

The average light handgun can maul your character in CP 2020. The combat is
smoother, slicker. Because of that players should (repeat, SHOULD) be more
nervous going through a CP combat than SR.

>Hey, Chop, the whole thing is in the descriptions. SRII is a little
>light on attitude, but the skill and combat systems are better.

Didn't you just say it wasn't? :P

>So I add
>the 'tude myself. If you're happy, keep on CPing

We play both here. The 'hard core' play CyberPunk and the 'fantasy' plays
Shadowrun. I play & run both. Go fig.

Oh yeah, if you wanna frack off your Cyberpunk GM, drink milk and eat cookies
while you play (and have a Dr. Seuss book within arm's reach...)

>> I'm converting a load of my custom cybernetics over to SR for
>> the list...

>I wanna see it!

I took the 'furries' from Chrome Book 2 and put them into Shadowrun. I
believe it's in the NERPS catalog under Shadowfurry (That was my old account,
and it's nuclear...) I could repost it, if you'd desire...

-Tyger

******************************************************************
! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
! "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
******************************************************************
Message no. 4
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 23:48:12 -0700
On Sat, 4 Jun 1994 Tyger09@***.COM wrote:

> >> The Cp2020 system works fine...and the attitude is the
> >> best...
>
> >The attitude is great, no doubt at all. It's just that the weapons are
> >wimpy and the maximum for skills, stats, etc is a 10. Where do you go
> >after playing daily for a summer? To SRII.
>
> No....
>
> See, we play Cyberpunk all the time here. Our local guru mentions that in
> several of the official supliments several of the NPC's have skills over 10.
> He also goes on to say that sure, the guns are wimpy is your players are
> running around with full Metalgear (TM) all the blasted time. But then, if
> you look through 'Protect and Serve' (Good to read for Shadowrun too!) you
> note that all the 'heavy' armours are illegal and hard to get on the street.

Well, our average was Gibson Battlegear (no Metalgear) from Chromebook 1 and
Skinweave. This came to some 22 or so SDP. (I think, I don't have the
book any more). But the 20mm only cooks out some 22 points! W i m p y

In SRII my character wears Armor vest (4/3) plus Armor Jacket (5/3) for a
total <using the armor layering rules from NAGRL> of 7/4. She only
survives runs because of Damage Compensators 9. H e a v y :)

Sha hasn't been hit with an Assault Cannon yet, I'm trying to keep that
from ever happening.

>
> The average light handgun can maul your character in CP 2020. The combat is
> smoother, slicker. Because of that players should (repeat, SHOULD) be more
> nervous going through a CP combat than SR.

Well, I GM'd CP2020 for a summer, and gave up on it because the
characters, and their oppos were untouchable unless someone got a
critical. Not much danger, not much fun. My opinion though.


> >Hey, Chop, the whole thing is in the descriptions. SRII is a little
> >light on attitude, but the skill and combat systems are better.
>
> Didn't you just say it wasn't? :P

NO, I said that CP2020 was the bad one. To me. :)


> >So I add
> >the 'tude myself. If you're happy, keep on CPing
>
> We play both here. The 'hard core' play CyberPunk and the 'fantasy' plays
> Shadowrun. I play & run both. Go fig.
>
> Oh yeah, if you wanna frack off your Cyberpunk GM, drink milk and eat cookies
> while you play (and have a Dr. Seuss book within arm's reach...)
>
> >> I'm converting a load of my custom cybernetics over to SR for
> >> the list...
>
> >I wanna see it!
>
> I took the 'furries' from Chrome Book 2 and put them into Shadowrun. I
> believe it's in the NERPS catalog under Shadowfurry (That was my old account,
> and it's nuclear...) I could repost it, if you'd desire...

Please? Really, I'd love to see it.


> -Tyger
>
> ******************************************************************
> ! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
> ! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
> ! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
> ! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
> ! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
> ! "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
> ******************************************************************
It's a GREAT sig, Tyger. My Shapeshifter uses your quote a lot lately,
for some reason. <Maybe because she's a tiger, and a member of the New
Church of Heathcliff, Garfield and Sher Kahn. "Horse" (from "Footrot
Flats") is a saint in the church. The church is trying to get voting
rights for shapeshifters in the UCAS (cats too, if they can) and she's an
activist.>

Ivy
Message no. 5
From: Tyger09@***.COM
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 14:03:12 EDT
>> But then, if
>> you look through 'Protect and Serve' (Good to read for Shadowrun too!) you
>> note that all the 'heavy' armours are illegal and hard to get on the
street.

>Well, our average was Gibson Battlegear (no Metalgear) from Chromebook 1 and
>Skinweave. This came to some 22 or so SDP. (I think, I don't have the
>book any more). But the 20mm only cooks out some 22 points! W i m p y

Actually (ANAL RETENTIVE MODE ON!), it comes to around (14 jacket + 10
T-shirt + 12 Skinweave) 36 SP (but max out at 30), or 26 w/o T-shirt. Now,
Skinweave is Illegal. So is wearing an SP value over 12. Not like it would
stop people.

Now, granted that sounds heavy. But 'big' armor slows you down big time.
And we use the 'armour chewing' rules. Every bullet chews away from your SP
(1 per bullet) which makes full auto fire really scary.

Also, wearing obvious armour is a big neon sign to the world screaming "I'M
LOOKING FOR A FIGHT!" My normal character wears only an armoured jacket, or
a T-shirt.

>In SRII my character wears Armor vest (4/3) plus Armor Jacket (5/3) for a
>total <using the armor layering rules from NAGRL> of 7/4. She only
>survives runs because of Damage Compensators 9. H e a v y :)

I have a friend of mine sitting here, reading over my shoulder. He's hopping
all over my room screaming that in Shadowrun he had a hole the size of a
bowling ball blown out of his chest, and he just had his friendly
neighborhood mage tap him with the magic want and everything was OK.

(Oh yes, he's a die-hard CP 2020 fan.) I wasn't there, so don't ask me.

>Sha hasn't been hit with an Assault Cannon yet, I'm trying to keep that
>from ever happening.

I find that if I have to pull out the heavy ordinance to keep my players in
line (like something that Slappy Squirrel would cringe at) then the players
are getting too confident.

>>
>> The average light handgun can maul your character in CP 2020. The combat
is
>> smoother, slicker. Because of that players should (repeat, SHOULD) be
more
>> nervous going through a CP combat than SR.

>Well, I GM'd CP2020 for a summer, and gave up on it because the
>characters, and their oppos were untouchable unless someone got a
>critical. Not much danger, not much fun. My opinion though.

You should play with us.

Our heaviest armoured character is at the max of 30 SP, but he's slowed to
the point of ridiculous! My character wears SKATEBOARD armour (Impact only,
not balistic!). We have an intresting group of well balanced characters.
And, in reality, we lose characters to stupidity occasinally. But that's
few and far between.

On average, our character has a medium pistol, and armored to SP 15. You
don't need anything else. The 'big gun' comes out to take down something
really big (like the full borg that tried to maul our local Solo...) But not
much other than that. We get majorly injured in a lot of firefights too...

Oh yes, I didn't mention that we get into fistfights (armor? What's that?),
melee fights (a knive will slice through armor like butter!), and the
occasional yahoo with the compound bow zipping arrows all over creation
(Armor? HA!) There's ways around armor, just get creative. (Claymores,
THAT'S creative!)

>> I took the 'furries' from Chrome Book 2 and put them into Shadowrun. I
>> believe it's in the NERPS catalog under Shadowfurry (That was my old
account,
>> and it's nuclear...) I could repost it, if you'd desire...

>Please? Really, I'd love to see it.

Ok, give me a little time and I'll repost it. Along with some of the
commentary.

>It's a GREAT sig, Tyger. My Shapeshifter uses your quote a lot lately,
>for some reason. <Maybe because she's a tiger

Meow. Why thank you! It's my cheezy attempt at ASCII graphics. Not bad for
freehand, neh? I adjusted the sig somewhat, I hope it's allright...

-Tyger

******************************************************************
! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
! V V "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
******************************************************************
Message no. 6
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: CP2020
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 12:59:56 +0100
I've 'tweeked' the system a little, cos the rules allowed some
thing HORRIBLE
The WHITEOUT!!!
The solo with everything he could get cybered
ARMs both cybered, reinforced joints,hydralics and armoured
Legs the same
Subdermal,skinweave, torsoplate
titanium skull plates,faceplate, cowl.
Eyes. ears. Altered throat with armour

Wearing Skintight bodysuit and Full Metalgear+t-shirt
Head 82
torso 90
arm/leg 45
Plus lots of implanted weapons
He was on empathy 0.2, had no friends, was ex military and
psycotic...also hunted by the police
All with the rules.
SO I CHANGED THEM.

Now no one uses armour (unless they're taking big risks, then a
vest) they use smarts and stealth...

CHOPPER.
Never again.
Message no. 7
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 17:12:33 -0700
On Sun, 5 Jun 1994 Tyger09@***.COM wrote:

> >> But then, if
> >> you look through 'Protect and Serve' (Good to read for Shadowrun too!) you
> >> note that all the 'heavy' armours are illegal and hard to get on the
> street.

Protect and Serve came out about two years after we quit playing CP2020.

> >Well, our average was Gibson Battlegear (no Metalgear) from Chromebook 1 and
> >Skinweave. This came to some 22 or so SDP. (I think, I don't have the
> >book any more). But the 20mm only cooks out some 22 points! W i m p y
>
> Actually (ANAL RETENTIVE MODE ON!), it comes to around (14 jacket + 10
> T-shirt + 12 Skinweave) 36 SP (but max out at 30), or 26 w/o T-shirt. Now,
> Skinweave is Illegal. So is wearing an SP value over 12. Not like it would
> stop people.

It sure didn't stop anyone in the Combat Zone. :)

> Now, granted that sounds heavy. But 'big' armor slows you down big time.
> And we use the 'armour chewing' rules. Every bullet chews away from your SP
> (1 per bullet) which makes full auto fire really scary.

Are those "armor chewing" rules in the Rulebook? I don't remember them.
And I do remember that the Gobson gear, sans Metalgear parts doesn't slow
anyone down at all.

> Also, wearing obvious armour is a big neon sign to the world screaming "I'M
> LOOKING FOR A FIGHT!" My normal character wears only an armoured jacket, or
> a T-shirt.

Well, my experience was that the characters were looking for trouble.
They found a lot, but never quite enough. Though Dancing Butterfly
nearly died from a mono-katana shot to the head. . .


> >In SRII my character wears Armor vest (4/3) plus Armor Jacket (5/3) for a
> >total <using the armor layering rules from NAGRL> of 7/4. She only
> >survives runs because of Damage Compensators 9. H e a v y :)
>
> I have a friend of mine sitting here, reading over my shoulder. He's hopping
> all over my room screaming that in Shadowrun he had a hole the size of a
> bowling ball blown out of his chest, and he just had his friendly
> neighborhood mage tap him with the magic want and everything was OK.

In the middle of combat he had someone doing magical healing on him?
With the time it takes, and the fact that no-one involved is moving, he
and the mage shoulda been iced!


> (Oh yes, he's a die-hard CP 2020 fan.) I wasn't there, so don't ask me.
>
> >Sha hasn't been hit with an Assault Cannon yet, I'm trying to keep that
> >from ever happening.
>
> I find that if I have to pull out the heavy ordinance to keep my players in
> line (like something that Slappy Squirrel would cringe at) then the players
> are getting too confident.

Having some experience with real Quick Response Teams I have all my corps
Sec Teams have at least one ready to respond at all times. It generally
isn't needed, but you never know. . .


> >>
> >> The average light handgun can maul your character in CP 2020. The combat
> is
> >> smoother, slicker. Because of that players should (repeat, SHOULD) be
> more
> >> nervous going through a CP combat than SR.
>
> >Well, I GM'd CP2020 for a summer, and gave up on it because the
> >characters, and their oppos were untouchable unless someone got a
> >critical. Not much danger, not much fun. My opinion though.
>
> You should play with us.
>
> Our heaviest armoured character is at the max of 30 SP, but he's slowed to
> the point of ridiculous! My character wears SKATEBOARD armour (Impact only,
> not balistic!). We have an intresting group of well balanced characters.
> And, in reality, we lose characters to stupidity occasinally. But that's
> few and far between.
>
> On average, our character has a medium pistol, and armored to SP 15. You
> don't need anything else. The 'big gun' comes out to take down something
> really big (like the full borg that tried to maul our local Solo...) But not
> much other than that. We get majorly injured in a lot of firefights too...
>
> Oh yes, I didn't mention that we get into fistfights (armor? What's that?),
> melee fights (a knive will slice through armor like butter!), and the
> occasional yahoo with the compound bow zipping arrows all over creation
> (Armor? HA!) There's ways around armor, just get creative. (Claymores,
> THAT'S creative!)

I had another ex-military playing in the game, and my roomate has heard a
lot from my hubby and I. Nobody was wearing less than the max they could
wear without encumberance. The only fist fights we had were Dragon style
Kung Fu versus Tae Kwon Do. The armor saved the character's life there
too. It is kinda sounding like you folks have written a lot of house
rules for CP2020. This isn't bad, but I played it by the book.


> >> I took the 'furries' from Chrome Book 2 and put them into Shadowrun. I
> >> believe it's in the NERPS catalog under Shadowfurry (That was my old
> account,
> >> and it's nuclear...) I could repost it, if you'd desire...
>
> >Please? Really, I'd love to see it.
>
> Ok, give me a little time and I'll repost it. Along with some of the
> commentary.

I'm really waiting! I loved the idea, and I use a bit of it, and I
really wanna see how you did it. You seem much more familiar with the
ruleset than I was when I did it. I played SRI from the time it came
out, shifted into CP2020 for a summer because of a friend from Calif. who
brought a set up on a visit, but went back to SRII for the thrill. I
loved the CP2020 attitude, but I love the SRII system more. So I mix
them both.


> >It's a GREAT sig, Tyger. My Shapeshifter uses your quote a lot lately,
> >for some reason. <Maybe because she's a tiger
>
> Meow. Why thank you! It's my cheezy attempt at ASCII graphics. Not bad for
> freehand, neh? I adjusted the sig somewhat, I hope it's allright...
>
> -Tyger
>
> ******************************************************************
> ! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
> ! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
> ! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
> ! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
> ! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
> ! V V "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
> ******************************************************************
>
I Love it! So does Fluf E. Kitten. She's my shapeshifter, decker, samurai.
Ivy K
Message no. 8
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 22:14:35 -0700
CHOPPER wrote:

>>I've 'tweeked' the system a little, cos the rules allowed some
>>thing HORRIBLE
>>The WHITEOUT!!!
>>The solo with everything he could get cybered
>>ARMs both cybered, reinforced joints,hydralics and armoured
>>Legs the same
>>Subdermal,skinweave, torsoplate
>>titanium skull plates,faceplate, cowl.
>>Eyes. ears. Altered throat with armour

>>Wearing Skintight bodysuit and Full Metalgear+t-shirt
>>Head 82
>>torso 90
>>arm/leg 45
>>Plus lots of implanted weapons
>>He was on empathy 0.2, had no friends, was ex military and
>>psycotic...also hunted by the police
>>All with the rules.
>>SO I CHANGED THEM.

Rules legal? Barely. Law Legal? No. Campaign Legal? Depends on GM.
My questions are a) How did he get the MONEY to buy this, b) were was the
CyberPsyhco Squad to bring down this Borg, c) why would any GM allow a player
to make such an monstrosity?

The most obsecene Shadowrun Characater I saw had Wired 3, Muscle Augmentation 4,
A SuperThyroid Gland, and enough extra cyber/bio-ware to give him a initiative
of 18+4d6. Our GM let the player play this, but if I was GM I would have
laughed and said "Try again Chummer."

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 9
From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 22:41:13 -0700
On Mon, 6 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> CHOPPER wrote:
>
> Rules legal? Barely. Law Legal? No. Campaign Legal? Depends on GM.
> My questions are a) How did he get the MONEY to buy this, b) were was the
> CyberPsyhco Squad to bring down this Borg, c) why would any GM allow a player
> to make such an monstrosity?
>
> The most obsecene Shadowrun Characater I saw had Wired 3, Muscle Augmentation 4,
> A SuperThyroid Gland, and enough extra cyber/bio-ware to give him a initiative
> of 18+4d6. Our GM let the player play this, but if I was GM I would have
> laughed and said "Try again Chummer."

Boy, that's nothing. I was once hired by a corp, along with a few of my
friends, to hunt down a cyber-psycho that was built by a corp. One of
those "who can build the better beast" type thing. Well, I'm sorry I
can't find the stats for him, but he was brutal. He had Wired 3, Muscle
Aug, no bioware (this was a bit ago), but he had some extreme betaware
plus a limb or two that gave him a little umph. We hunted the guy through
town and into the sewers and almost got chewed up. If it wasn't for the
armor from the corporation backing us up and our merc's heavy weapon, I
wouldn't remember the rest. Anyway, my point is that the corps can pretty
much do what they want in SRII (or other games too I suppose). And they
can do it within the rules of the game. Money? No object. Law legal?
Well, that's relative to who owns the security and who sets the laws. He
had a license to kill that didn't seem revokable. But that's where we
came in. We were hired because someone thought we were the best.
Apparently the corp who hired us didn't have men skilled enough to get him
on their own. This guy had the resources and the vehicles to get where he
wanted. But luckily we caught him at a weak point and geeked him.
Toughest job I ever did. Campaign legal? For our game master he was, but
that's because our GM likes to hit hard and push us to the limits of our
creative thinking and problem solving skills. Makes for some damn good
memories.

===========================================
= Control : It's as easy as decking in... =
= rjmoulton <szicepik@****.ucdavis.edu> =
Message no. 10
From: Tyger09@***.COM
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:20:21 EDT
>Protect and Serve came out about two years after we quit playing CP2020.

Actually, I saw the Lone Star book today. I still think Protect & Serve is
more of a 'hard edge' cop book. (AND THEY STOLE MY SPELL!!!! GAH!)

>> Skinweave is Illegal. So is wearing an SP value over 12. Not like it
would
>> stop people.

>It sure didn't stop anyone in the Combat Zone. :)

...But that's the CZ. Now, in the CZ if you're wearing armour, then you're
looking to get shot at! And, as the GURU says (he's on the floor, chanting
some mantra about Glocks...) that in the fatbook (main book) there's
something called the "proportional armor" rule, that basically means that you
get a bonus for wearing armor, not an added + whatever.

>Are those "armor chewing" rules in the Rulebook? I don't remember them.
>And I do remember that the Gobson gear, sans Metalgear parts doesn't slow
>anyone down at all.

No, that's something we made up to make the game more fun... and more
bloody... (And, as the GURU says, if that's published anywhere other than
here he's gonna RIP THEIR FRACKING THROATS OUT FROM THEIR HIND ENDS!!! (ok,
I'm paraphrasing...))

>Well, my experience was that the characters were looking for trouble.

Then let them have it...

>They found a lot, but never quite enough. Though Dancing Butterfly
>nearly died from a mono-katana shot to the head. . .

...We know about melee weapons... Like how -FUN- it is to be riding a
motorised skateboard with a power wakasashi cruising at 35 MPH...

And, wouldn't a head-shot with a mono-blade of ANY kind be terminal? Just a
question...

>In the middle of combat he had someone doing magical healing on him?
>With the time it takes, and the fact that no-one involved is moving, he
>and the mage shoulda been iced!

But, they weren't. THAT'S the problem...

>> I find that if I have to pull out the heavy ordinance to keep my players
in
>> line (like something that Slappy Squirrel would cringe at) then the
players
>> are getting too confident.

>Having some experience with real Quick Response Teams I have all my corps
>Sec Teams have at least one ready to respond at all times. It generally
>isn't needed, but you never know. . .

Yeek. Err, I know a GM (who shall remain nameless...) who has a SWAT team
ready to touch down at a fire-zone within 5-10 SECONDS of the first bullet.
(Shadowrun, 1st ed ruled. They were on TOP of us in 2 rounds. We were in
Pollyup...)

So, I cringe. But there is a bit of reality to that. It takes longer to
mobilize people, remember.

>> You should play with us.

>> On average, our character has a medium pistol, and armored to SP 15.

>> Oh yes, I didn't mention that we get into fistfights

>I had another ex-military playing in the game, and my roomate has heard a
>lot from my hubby and I. Nobody was wearing less than the max they could
>wear without encumberance. The only fist fights we had were Dragon style
>Kung Fu versus Tae Kwon Do. The armor saved the character's life there
>too. It is kinda sounding like you folks have written a lot of house
>rules for CP2020. This isn't bad, but I played it by the book.

Ok, our main house rules are the 'armor chewing' rule, the "soft armor dosn't
help you in a fist fight" rule, and the "Why-the-frack-are-you-wearing-
metalgear-into-a-small-delicatessan-in-the-corp-zone-you-frack-head" rule.

And, oh yes, we have offshoots (The 'why-an-assault-rifle' rule, the
'why-the-
panzer" rule, and the 'what-are-you-doing-with-a-cannon' rules too...)

Besides that, we invoke the 'reality' rule a lot too. Like not EVERYONE
knows capeoira, kung fu, and savate. Not EVERYONE carries a heavy SMG to
work. Even the nomads are oft to only carry a 12 gauge (ONLY?!?)

Look at the streets now. A monster handgun is a .38 or .45 (which relates to
roughly a medium or heavy handgun). But not everyone carries one (it'd be
stupid.) And in a fistfight, you pull a gun, and suddenly EVERYONE pulled a
gun. So fistfights don't go beyond that (sometimes.)

We do play 2020 to the book (all 10+ of them...) We just play it with a
healthy dose of 'reality'. (and, oh yes, our last 3 combats were brawling
fist-to-fist bouts that spilled into a parking lot. Did you know that an
automobile fender can be used as a melee weapon?)

(on Shadowfurry)

>I'm really waiting! I loved the idea, and I use a bit of it, and I
>really wanna see how you did it. You seem much more familiar with the
>ruleset than I was when I did it. I played SRI from the time it came
>out, shifted into CP2020 for a summer because of a friend from Calif. who
>brought a set up on a visit, but went back to SRII for the thrill. I
>loved the CP2020 attitude, but I love the SRII system more. So I mix
>them both.

Ok, I posted it. Did it not get through? (I'll wait before I repost untill
I hear that it either did or didn't go.)

A combo of 2020 & Shadowrun. Hmm... now that would be... something the
GURU would kill me for thinking...

(the sig)
>I Love it! So does Fluf E. Kitten. She's my shapeshifter, decker, samurai.
>Ivy K

a shapeshifter/decker/streetsammi?!?!? (should I? Naah, she's got bigger
teeth and a mystic claws in her contract...)

-Tyger

******************************************************************
! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
! V V "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
******************************************************************
Message no. 11
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:31:33 -0500
> The most obsecene Shadowrun Characater I saw had Wired 3, Muscle
> Augmentation 4,

What the hell? That's Essence cost 9 RIGHT THERE. Sure, you might be
able to do it with Beta-grade cyberware and a mega-surgeon, but do you know
the COST of that?

Was this a starting character?

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 12
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 14:55:59 -0700
On Mon, 6 Jun 1994, J.W.Thomas wrote:

> I've 'tweeked' the system a little, cos the rules allowed some
> thing HORRIBLE
> The WHITEOUT!!!
> The solo with everything he could get cybered
> ARMs both cybered, reinforced joints,hydralics and armoured
> Legs the same
> Subdermal,skinweave, torsoplate
> titanium skull plates,faceplate, cowl.
> Eyes. ears. Altered throat with armour

Well, I didn't have anyone go 'that' far, but I sure get the drift.

> Wearing Skintight bodysuit and Full Metalgear+t-shirt
> Head 82
> torso 90
> arm/leg 45
> Plus lots of implanted weapons
> He was on empathy 0.2, had no friends, was ex military and
> psycotic...also hunted by the police
> All with the rules.
> SO I CHANGED THEM.

That's our difference Chop, I'd rather change 'games', to one that works,
than rewrite a ruleset.

> Now no one uses armour (unless they're taking big risks, then a
> vest) they use smarts and stealth...
>
> CHOPPER.
> Never again.
>
Know what you mean, Chumba, Know what ya means.
Ivy
Message no. 13
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:49:01 -0700
On Mon, 6 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> CHOPPER wrote:
>
> >>I've 'tweeked' the system a little, cos the rules allowed some
> >>thing HORRIBLE
> >>The WHITEOUT!!!
> >>He was on empathy 0.2, had no friends, was ex military and
> >>psycotic...also hunted by the police
> >>All with the rules.
> >>SO I CHANGED THEM.
>
> Rules legal? Barely. Law Legal? No. Campaign Legal? Depends on GM.
> My questions are a) How did he get the MONEY to buy this, b) were was the
> CyberPsyhco Squad to bring down this Borg, c) why would any GM allow a player
> to make such an monstrosity?

Money is pretty easy when you play the modules. Point is, the character
was rules legal, and the game can't handle something like that. That's
why I play SRII instead. :)

> The most obsecene Shadowrun Characater I saw had Wired 3, Muscle Augmentation 4,
> A SuperThyroid Gland, and enough extra cyber/bio-ware to give him a initiative
> of 18+4d6. Our GM let the player play this, but if I was GM I would have
> laughed and said "Try again Chummer."
> * Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *

Hmmm, well, I guess it's all in degrees of experience. The two players I
GM for most have characters with enough magic and Beta-ware to get their
Initiatives to about 21+4d6 and I don't find them a problem. They also
have Karma POOLS of 350+, which can be even more of a problem.
But I've been GMing for years now (I bought the first three copies of SRI
sold in Portland, OR, and the first three copies of SRII sold in Eugene,
OR) so I know the ways around hi-speed deadlies.

Everyone plays at different pressure levels though. I run things for
their other characters too, those gals with the Karma Pools of 12 to 18
and they love that too. In SRII, what I'm trying to say, is there are
ways to challange the Karma Goddesses and ways to challenge the new kids too.

Heck, one of the best stories in the game is how one of our Karma
Goddesses took a shot to the head from one of those Tir na N0g
super-sniper rifles and took the damage down. With no head armor. Cost
her some 18 permanent Karma from her Pool, but she did it.

Another great story from our game is about the time that a Native
American lady and an elven sweetie treed a bar full of eye-fivers. The
two of them had about 5 Karma Pool between them.

You can have fun at all levels of play with SRII. That's why I like it.
Ivy
Message no. 14
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cp2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 16:33:58 -0700
On Tue, 7 Jun 1994 Tyger09@***.COM wrote:

> Actually, I saw the Lone Star book today. I still think Protect & Serve is
> more of a 'hard edge' cop book. (AND THEY STOLE MY SPELL!!!! GAH!)

You are probably correct, but Lone Star puts a whole new look on the johns.

> >> Skinweave is Illegal. So is wearing an SP value over 12. Not like it
> >It sure didn't stop anyone in the Combat Zone. :)
>
> ...But that's the CZ. Now, in the CZ if you're wearing armour, then you're
> looking to get shot at! And, as the GURU says (he's on the floor, chanting

Isn't that the whole idea?

> >Are those "armor chewing" rules in the Rulebook? I don't remember
them.
> >And I do remember that the Gobson gear, sans Metalgear parts doesn't slow
> >anyone down at all.
>
> No, that's something we made up to make the game more fun... and more
> bloody... (And, as the GURU says, if that's published anywhere other than
> here he's gonna RIP THEIR FRACKING THROATS OUT FROM THEIR HIND ENDS!!! (ok,
> I'm paraphrasing...))
>
> >Well, my experience was that the characters were looking for trouble.
>
> Then let them have it...
>
> >They found a lot, but never quite enough. Though Dancing Butterfly
> >nearly died from a mono-katana shot to the head. . .
>
> ...We know about melee weapons... Like how -FUN- it is to be riding a
> motorised skateboard with a power wakasashi cruising at 35 MPH...
>
> And, wouldn't a head-shot with a mono-blade of ANY kind be terminal? Just a
> question...
Nah, not by the rules in the "fatbook". Damn near killed her, but there
was enough to get back.
> >In the middle of combat he had someone doing magical healing on him?
> >With the time it takes, and the fact that no-one involved is moving, he
> >and the mage shoulda been iced!
>
> But, they weren't. THAT'S the problem...

Bad GM then. No dodge, nothing but armor, uh, it 'was' SRII wasn't it?

> >> I find that if I have to pull out the heavy ordinance to keep my players
>
> >Having some experience with real Quick Response Teams I have all my corps
> >Sec Teams have at least one ready to respond at all times. It generally
> >isn't needed, but you never know. . .
>
> Yeek. Err, I know a GM (who shall remain nameless...) who has a SWAT team
> ready to touch down at a fire-zone within 5-10 SECONDS of the first bullet.
> (Shadowrun, 1st ed ruled. They were on TOP of us in 2 rounds. We were in
> Pollyup...)

Was that the same GM that let the slag get healed? No way, jose! 15
minutes minimum, from hanging around (married to) a 1st Air Cav Pilot
from Nam.

>
> So, I cringe. But there is a bit of reality to that. It takes longer to
> mobilize people, remember.
>
> >> You should play with us.
>
> >> On average, our character has a medium pistol, and armored to SP 15.
>
> >> Oh yes, I didn't mention that we get into fistfights
>
> >I had another ex-military playing in the game, and my roomate has heard a
> >lot from my hubby and I. Nobody was wearing less than the max they could
> >wear without encumberance. The only fist fights we had were Dragon style
> >Kung Fu versus Tae Kwon Do. The armor saved the character's life there
> >too. It is kinda sounding like you folks have written a lot of house
> >rules for CP2020. This isn't bad, but I played it by the book.
>
> Ok, our main house rules are the 'armor chewing' rule, the "soft armor dosn't
> help you in a fist fight" rule, and the "Why-the-frack-are-you-wearing-
> metalgear-into-a-small-delicatessan-in-the-corp-zone-you-frack-head" rule.
>
> And, oh yes, we have offshoots (The 'why-an-assault-rifle' rule, the
> 'why-the-
> panzer" rule, and the 'what-are-you-doing-with-a-cannon' rules too...)
>
> Besides that, we invoke the 'reality' rule a lot too. Like not EVERYONE
> knows capeoira, kung fu, and savate. Not EVERYONE carries a heavy SMG to
> work. Even the nomads are oft to only carry a 12 gauge (ONLY?!?)
>
> Look at the streets now. A monster handgun is a .38 or .45 (which relates to
> roughly a medium or heavy handgun). But not everyone carries one (it'd be
> stupid.) And in a fistfight, you pull a gun, and suddenly EVERYONE pulled a
> gun. So fistfights don't go beyond that (sometimes.)
>
> We do play 2020 to the book (all 10+ of them...) We just play it with a
> healthy dose of 'reality'. (and, oh yes, our last 3 combats were brawling
> fist-to-fist bouts that spilled into a parking lot. Did you know that an
> automobile fender can be used as a melee weapon?)
>
> (on Shadowfurry)
>
> >I'm really waiting! I loved the idea, and I use a bit of it, and I
> >really wanna see how you did it. You seem much more familiar with the
> >ruleset than I was when I did it. I played SRI from the time it came
> >out, shifted into CP2020 for a summer because of a friend from Calif. who
> >brought a set up on a visit, but went back to SRII for the thrill. I
> >loved the CP2020 attitude, but I love the SRII system more. So I mix
> >them both.
>
> Ok, I posted it. Did it not get through? (I'll wait before I repost untill
> I hear that it either did or didn't go.)
>
> A combo of 2020 & Shadowrun. Hmm... now that would be... something the
> GURU would kill me for thinking...
>
> (the sig)
> >I Love it! So does Fluf E. Kitten. She's my shapeshifter, decker, samurai.
> >Ivy K
>
> a shapeshifter/decker/streetsammi?!?!? (should I? Naah, she's got bigger
> teeth and a mystic claws in her contract...)
>
> -Tyger
>
> ******************************************************************
> ! |\ /| ! Tyger (Available on "Tyger09@***.com", and a !
> ! (I)_(I) ! few other locations as well.) !
> ! --- \ / --- ! Paintball, Pinball, and driving around the state !
> ! --- | --- ! of confusion without a licence. !
> ! \___/ \___/ !***************************************************
> ! V V "Never say 'Bite me!' to a carnivore." -Catt !
> ******************************************************************
>
"A mystic claws in her contract" <giggle> wow! I love it!

Ivy
PS, yes it did get through, and thanks very, very much.
Message no. 15
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:37:08 -0700
That was Muscle Augmentation (Bioware) not Muscle Replacement (Cyberware).

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 16
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:41:45 -0500
> That was Muscle Augmentation (Bioware) not Muscle Replacement
> (Cyberware).

Ah.

That makes it a little better.

Not much, of coruse (what was his body?)

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 17
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 15:17:20 -0700
On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Tim Skirvin wrote:

> > That was Muscle Augmentation (Bioware) not Muscle Replacement
> > (Cyberware).
> Ah.
> That makes it a little better.
> Not much, of coruse (what was his body?)
> -------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------

Well, Tim, what difference does it make? Really? If the GM let him
play, what's the problem?

Like, for my game I have taken to ignoring all the "Don't let a player
start with this stuff" deals from SSC and ST. Why worry? The two books
are 4 and 3 years (game years) out of date now, the stuff is everywhere.
Heck, my world is up to Beta-Plus and Gamma clinics (if you can find
one...). Time marches on, and technology races with time.

If the GM is any good then she (or he) can handle the problems. And it's
their game too. ;)

Ivy
Message no. 18
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: CP2020
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:47:54 +0100
>
> CAUTION!!
> HUGE POST INCOMING!!!
> On 7th jun Tyger wrote>
> > Ok, this is a monster post, cuz it's easier to do it that way...
> >
> > From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
> >
> > >I've 'tweeked' the system a little, cos the rules allowed some
> > >thing HORRIBLE
> > >The WHITEOUT!!!
> >
> > ...only if you LET YOUR PLAYERS do it... but with the GURU by my side
> > (smoking Djarum's and chanting...) and Satriani in my CD player, we go
> > onward... Ok, we're gonna get anal here... But that's us at the Winona
> > Brotherhood of Cyberpunk Gamemasters & Rule Torquers.
>
> >From the Flipper Is Dead cyberpunk thinktank/fishtank , this guy
> was the ultimate borgout...the term 'Whiteout' was dedicated to
> him. He was an example of what the rules can do...
> >
> > >The solo with everything he could get cybered
> > >ARMs both cybered, reinforced joints,hydralics and armoured
> > >Legs the same
> > >Subdermal,skinweave, torsoplate
> > >titanium skull plates,faceplate, cowl.
> > >Eyes. ears. Altered throat with armour
> The full list was...
> Both arms with hydralics,reinf joints, sp20 armour, micromissile
> lauchers, one with a Volter (customised capacitor lethal
> arcthrower) and the other with wolvers and a hammerhand
> Both legs hydralic/reinf/ sp20 armour with grenade lauchers and
> speeding bullet.
>
>
> > Ok, that's the CYBER portion. Lemme see here, your 'skinweave' only works
> > when you actually have 'skin' to weave. So that would cover, I think, the
> > nape of the neck, the groin area (possibly), and possibly your armpits.
> > (HEY! Cheap skinweave!)
> <CHOP> the skinweave is nanowoven into all dermal areas...he may
> have metal plates bonded onto it, but the skin is still there
> under the bodyplating
> >
> > Ok, on to the plating. True, you can get a cowl (SP 25), faceplate (SP 25)
> > and the 'neck' area (sounds like the item from Interface 3, v1 (p2) SP 20).
> > Ok, so you can take a bullet to the head, but you are OOOGLY!
> <CHOP> he had titanium skull plates reinforcing a bonewoven
> skull sp20, skinweave sp12, a faceplate/cowl sp25 and a
> Metalgear helmet sp25.
> 20+12+25+25‚
> >
> > On to the limbs. We'll assume that your solo had a high body (NO DUH!) The
> > cyber cost in humanity is monsterous, Max SDP is 60 (Orbital Crystal limbs,
> > VERY EXPENSIVE!) But SDP is how much a limb can take before it breaks down
> > (Cumalitive damage). Max SP is 20 on ANY limb.
>
> <CHOP> says who? metalgear is SP25 on the arms
> He has Sp20 kevlar + sp25 metalgear E
>
> > Hydraulics, joints, and what not only enhance limb PERFORMANCE, not armour
> > rating.
> <CHOP> so? they work, don't they
>
> > Torso plating gives SP 25, but replaces the chest area and as such you
> > cannont combine it with any other cyberarmour. And, oh yes, your REF is -3.
> > Subdermal armour also reduces your REF (up to -2), and it only gives a
> > combined total of SP 27 (Proportional Armour rule, Cyberpunk 2020 v1.1)
> <CHOP> this guy has played thru 2013, 2020 and HW/ WGF
> systems...
> His REF is 10 +kerensikov2 +boostmaster1 +combat drugs3
> (subdermal drug pump) -3 torsoplate -2 ev metalgear=8 (11 on
> drugs)
> Torso armour is Subdermal 18 , skinweave 12 , bodyplate 25 ,
> metalgear 25 t-shirt 10 = 90
>
>
> > Oh yeah, cybereyes & ears are NOT armoured (with the exception of the
> > optishield with an SP of 8)
>
> <CHOP> but they are artificial and don't feel pain
> >
> > >Wearing Skintight bodysuit and Full Metalgear+t-shirt
> >
> > Hmm, skintight bodysuit? That's a cop thing, right? So, it only reduces
> > damage to the wearer, and only AFTER armor is punched through. Full
> > Metalgear is 25, granted. Plus a T-Shirt, ok.
> <CHOP> wrong! the skin tight takes 1/3 off any damage that gets
> through... so the armour underneath still has to be taken into
> account
>
> > >Head 82
> >
> > SP 25 (overall, not cumalitive) + 25 (Metalgear) = 30 w/ proportional armour
> > rule (again, Cyberpunk 2020 (v 1.1))
> <CHOP> blah blah blah
> 20+12+25+25‚.....simple
> > >torso 90
> >
> > SP 25 (metalgear + T- Shirt) + SP 27 (Cyberarmour) = SP 32
> <CHOP> 18+12+25+25+10
> >
>
> > >arm/leg 45
> >
> > Cyberarms SDP (35, but that's not SP!), Armoured to SP 20 + SP 25
(metalgear)
> > = 30 SP (proportional armour rule)
> <CHOP> where it say that? you're not pulling new rules on an old
> hand like me are you...? shame on you
> And i never mentioned anything about the SDP of his arms/legs
> > >All with the rules.
> >
> > Ok, so it looks like your solo has a full body SP 30, an attractiveness of
> > MAXIMUM 5 (even with 'sculpt jobbing it...), and a max reflex of 2 (without
> > cyberwear) All by the book.
> He has ATTR 1 and thats pushing it...ref is 8/11, BOD is 14 , MA
> 16
> >
> > >Plus lots of implanted weapons
> > >He was on empathy 0.2, had no friends, was ex military and
> > >psycotic...also hunted by the police
>
> >
>
> > Ok, "Hey! That sounds promising" -The GURU.
>
> >
> > Empathy of 0.2? Hmm, can we say 'CYBERPSYCHO'?????? And only hunted by the
> > cops? How about Arasaka, Millitech, every booster in Night City (Blood
> > Razors, Slaughterhouse, Maelstrom, Red Chrome Legion, Blood & Tears...), The
> > Inquisitors (who would have fun tearing every bit of cyber out of his
> > "blasphemous, unholoy carsass!"), sevral nomad packs ("Parts is
parts! Some
> > just still move!") Not to mention a few civic-minded solo's who know what
> > cyberpsychos DO...
> >
> > You get the idea...
> <CHOP> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> CYBERPSYCHO doesn't sum it up....this guy cleaned out his
> chestfreezer for the major female NPC, so he could keep her when
> she died...
> ARASAKA and MILITECH are just too nieve for our games.... the
> corps are a lot bigger and complex.(try HARDWIRED size)
> The BOOSTERS? don't make me laugh! lots of kids with metal arms?
> he killed over half the combat gangs in the city...He Was the
> best the military had before he went Psycho and Borged himself.
> The INQUISITORS and NOMADS have been erased from reality for the
> crime of being too silly for words.
>
>
> > >SO I CHANGED THEM.
> >
> > How? I'd like to know myself.
> >
> Reduced the availability of Cybernetics, increased the cost a
> little so it ran more in proportion to the benifits it gave
>
> > >Now no one uses armour (unless they're taking big risks, then a
> > >vest) they use smarts and stealth...
> <CHOP> cos visable armour is illegal, and the police have a
> camera on each streetcorner (for 'traffic control' ) and all the
> public videophones are watching....
> >
> > AS IT SHOULD BE! Or, you simply use a liberal application of BS to tell the
> > guards "Hey! I really do work here!" ('natch having a high empathy
HELPS
on
> > jobs like that, but...)
> >
> > > Never again.
> >
> > ???
> >
> > (NEXT!)
> >
> > From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
> >
> > >Rules legal? Barely.
> <CHOP> CP2020 vs1.0 0%
>
> > ...if you use a rubber band, it is.
> >
> <CHOP> BOINGY!!!BOINGY!!!
> > >Law Legal? No.
> >
> <CHOP> cause not...no fun if it was
> > 'Natch. A big 'Hallelujah' comes fromt the "WBoCG&RT".
> >
> > >Campaign Legal? Depends on GM.
> >
> > You expect this character to last a campaign? I give 'im about 5 minutes on
> > the streets (or, to a smart player, 3 hours game play...)
> >
> > >My questions are a) How did he get the MONEY to buy this, b) were was the
> > >CyberPsyhco Squad to bring down this Borg, c) why would any GM allow a
> > player
> > >to make such an monstrosity?
> >
>
> > We gave the designer the freebie of being 'expirenced' (not just stoned...)
> > So we figured it was a guy who walks into a cybershop and says "Hi. Make
me
> > a toaster." :P
> >
> > The cyberpscho squad was taking down Jason J Everett. (look it up.)
> <CHOP> what a load if sh*t that story was....a netty borged out
> who destroyed a corporation...they'd have psycological profiled
> the guy, twigged him unstable and put him in for re-hab
> >
> > and C), I allow my players to do whatever they please. I just let them know
> > that they can get mauled for it. Like wearing metalgear into Totentanz is
> > like wearing a neon sign saying 'kill me!'.
> >
> > If you look like 'joe average', then a police sweep will miss you. If
you're
> > ..."That guy with the purple chrome cyberarm and the cybervocal that
sounded
> > like Barney..." Then odds are you stick out in a crowd. So your
high-cyber
> > people tend to get caught more often.
> >
> > >The most obsecene Shadowrun Characater I saw had Wired 3, Muscle
> > Augmentation >4, A SuperThyroid Gland, and enough extra cyber/bio-ware to
> > give him a >initiative of 18+4d6.
> >
> > That's all? :)
> <CHOP> i've heard of someone who (SR 1 mind you) had a reaction
> of 15+7D6 cos of wired 3 and inc reaction 4 spell....
>
> >
> > >Our GM let the player play this, but if I was GM I would
> > >have laughed and said "Try again Chummer."
> >
> > Hmm... I had this problem. I made a 'speed chart' that you could pull,
> > strain, and generally injure your body by moving too fast. I may post it
> > sometime.
> >
> > (More from Jason:)
> >
> > >Still, I will admit that Cyberpunk 2020 is a flawed system. That's why I
> >
> > The GURU just fell over, I think he's unconcious... No, no, he wants nore
> > nicotene...
> >
> > >spent a lot of time fixing the flaws with House Rules. In fact, my combat
> > >house rules are so extensive that I rewrote the Friday Night
Firefighsection
> > >to make it easier to tell what the rules were.
> >
> > Ok, what flaws do you see with the system as it stands?
> <CHOP> the system runs fine...fast, smooth and linear...not like
> SR 2's skill system that runs alone bizarre curves, (it's a
> wonder the hounds of Tindalos don't get you)
>
> > >I latest project has been joining forces with my pal, Steve Huth, to make
> > >Shadowrun style Magic Rules for CP2020. Why you ask? Because we got
> > fucking
> > >tired of trying to roll 6s.
> >
> > Magic rules? Well... whatever...
> >
> > Seen "Night's Edge"? It's a suppliment for CP 2020. It's got
something
like
> > that...
> <CHOP> played it...liked it...ran a game with all sorts of weird
> shit in it....Vampire clubowners, Vampire surealist artists ,
> Ice Chill the PYROKINETIC and Mr Knobs the stuffed donkey...
> It came out very manga...with exploding heads, flying psychics
> and lots of gunfire...
> Lots of fun
> > <NB the Dracula in the NightsEdge Book is 354 skill points
> short>
>
> > From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.ucdavis.edu>
> >
> > >Anyway, my point is that the corps can pretty
> > >much do what they want in SRII (or other games too I suppose). And they
> > >can do it within the rules of the game.
> >
> > Well, that's what you're out there for, isn't it?
> >
> > 'runners (edge or shadow) are riding the fringe, finding the new find. They
> > see what's out there and do something about it. If it's all about the money
> > that gets old quick. Now seeing that Renraku (Insert ANY corp here,
> > Shadowrun or Cyberpunk) is dumping radioactive stuff in your friends
> > neighborhood is one thing. What'cha gonna DO about it?
> >
> > You get hired, you do a job, you go away. That's dull.
> <CHOP> you find your slum-chums have been drugged, dragged away
> and had there BRAINS centrifiged for RNA research...so you get
> some new friends...
> All the SR supliments seem to be...man in bar gives you X,000 NY
> to do this...you go...you do it...you come back...
>
> >
>
> > >Money? No object. Law legal?
> > >Well, that's relative to who owns the security and who sets the laws. He
> > >had a license to kill that didn't seem revokable. But that's where we
> > >came in. We were hired because someone thought we were the best.
> >
> > ...How about this? Find out 'WHY' he's killing things. Was he TRULY psycho
> > or was he on a vengance kick?
> <CHOP> White just got a kick out of it... figure the Military
> misswired his pain editor, connecting the pain, pleasure and
> neuro-motor centres together...he just enjoyed inflicting and
> receiving pain
> (READ 'MARSHAL LAW' FOR DETAILS)
> >
> > >Apparently the corp who hired us didn't have men skilled enough to get him
> > >on their own.
> <CHOP> No, they just don't want to risk loosing anything... you
> are disposable and a simple tool
> >
>
> > ...or you were the group getting expiremented on. There's always
> > possibilities that there's a backstab...
> >
> > >Campaign legal? For our game master he was, but
> > >that's because our GM likes to hit hard and push us to the limits of our
> > >creative thinking and problem solving skills. Makes for some damn good
> > >memories.
> >
> > ...and isn't that what you're doing this for?
> >
> > -Tyger
> <CHOP> What do you do when players are down?
> KICK THEM!
>
> The trick is to adjust the danger level to fit the party...
> and i LOVED the whiteout cos you could blow him up, cut his
> arm off in a hydralic lift door , run him over, whatever....
> He always got up again , ready for the next blow...
>
> CHOPPER
>
Message no. 19
From: Bryan Prince <WALAB@******.HH.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 10:09:58 -0600
Will you guys close this already? At least make it SR relevant, or take it
to private email-sheesh.
Th-th-th-that's all f-folks!
Message no. 20
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:29:37 -0500
> Well, Tim, what difference does it make? Really? If the GM let
> him play, what's the problem?

Yes, I know, but it just seems...silly. Sure, there's ways to deal
with it, but...

> Like, for my game I have taken to ignoring all the "Don't let a
> player start with this stuff" deals from SSC and ST. Why worry?
> The two books are 4 and 3 years (game years) out of date now, the
> stuff is everywhere.

Actually, I agree here...maybe you should make it cost a little more,
but not much. If they want to start with it, go ahead, but...

> Heck, my world is up to Beta-Plus and Gamma clinics (if you can
> find one...). Time marches on, and technology races with time.

I don't think I want to know how much extra THESE things cost...

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 21
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: CP2020
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:38:55 -0700
On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, Tim Skirvin wrote:

> > Well, Tim, what difference does it make? Really? If the GM let
> > him play, what's the problem?
>
> Yes, I know, but it just seems...silly. Sure, there's ways to deal
> with it, but...

If the game is kept interesting enough, things like that won't really
help the character. Tactics are the only thing that really works, and
then only if your character is in the envelope already. For example:
The detective, ganger, and rockers aren't competitive, in a normal
adventure, in most SRII games. I run special games for them.

> > Like, for my game I have taken to ignoring all the "Don't let a
> > player start with this stuff" deals from SSC and ST. Why worry?
> > The two books are 4 and 3 years (game years) out of date now, the
> > stuff is everywhere.
>
> Actually, I agree here...maybe you should make it cost a little more,
> but not much. If they want to start with it, go ahead, but...

I don't change the price, so far, because it's on the edge of "old-tech"
already. In fact, I have been thinking seriously of dropping the price
of a lot of stuff for that reason. "Old-tech" is cheap tech.

> > Heck, my world is up to Beta-Plus and Gamma clinics (if you can
> > find one...). Time marches on, and technology races with time.
>
> I don't think I want to know how much extra THESE things cost...

Beta Plus Clinics = Beta Clinic prices x 3
Gamma Clinic = Beta Plus clinic prices x 4

To keep their, very wealthy, customers happy they "throw in" leonization
as a part of the service at the Gamma clinics. You are going to be there
for at least 6 months anyway. So, they figure, why not?

> -------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
> "He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
> idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
>
Ivy
Message no. 22
From: Fastjack <uc298@*****.UNICAN.ES>
Subject: CP:2020
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:25:00 +0100
Gurth,as i see you are on line,i have a question for you about your books
in plastic warriors:

-All the ciber-bioware that increase the reaction or the initiative is
cumulative or not?i asked this becaus emy players took a look at the
books and saw that many of the cyber dont say that if is cumulative or not.
TIA






*************************************************
* *
* >>>>>[Tu ciberterminal sera mia.Piensalo bien *
* cuando te encuentras en lo mas oscuro de la *
* matriz]<<<<< *
* -Fastjack<18:05:46/12-22-52> *
*************************************************
Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: CP:2020
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:35:30 +0100
Fastjack said on 12:25/27 Jan 97...

> Gurth,as i see you are on line,

For about 30 seconds when I upload mail, I'm on-line, yes :)

> -All the ciber-bioware that increase the reaction or the initiative is
> cumulative or not?i asked this becaus emy players took a look at the
> books and saw that many of the cyber dont say that if is cumulative or not.

All this falls under the generic ruling that initiative enhancements are
not cumulative unless stated otherwise.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about CP2020, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!