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Message no. 1
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:27:06 -0400
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> <SNIP>

> > Is there any way to make a character do something
> against their will, but not with magic? Like a implant
> skillsoft or something. . . I want to make a beserker,
> but one who beserks against his will.
> > NaCl(aq)
>
> Yes, O Grand Master of the Bleeding Obvious. ;)
>
> An implant skillsoft is one way to do exactly what
> you're talking about and probably the best. If you
> stick a persona chip in, then they'll act according to
> the persona. If the persona is that of a berserk
> killer, then...
>

OR, one of my friends made a character who was insane. When confronted with something, or
just for the sheer hell of it, he would roll a d6. If it came up a 6, then he'd go all
goofy and do all sorts of crazy stuff like take out his combat axe and start lopping off
heads while whistling the Andy Griffith theme song. It was actually quite amusing. And
I'm sure it was fun to play. In fact, I might want to do something like this. Doc', who
was that guy in the PBeM who needed players? I might want to try this in his game. Give
him nightmares for weeks.

*Strago flashes an epg (evil player grin).*
<SNIP>

--
--Strago

All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M P
Message no. 2
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:32:10 +0900
On 5/18/00 12:27 PM, Strago at strago@***.com wrote:

> OR, one of my friends made a character who was insane. When confronted with
> something, or
> just for the sheer hell of it, he would roll a d6. If it came up a 6, then
> he'd go all
> goofy and do all sorts of crazy stuff like take out his combat axe and start
> lopping off
> heads while whistling the Andy Griffith theme song. It was actually quite
> amusing. And
> I'm sure it was fun to play. In fact, I might want to do something like this.

Ugh... think carefully. When I was playing AD&D in high school, some
friends and I decided to explore the mysteries of Chaotic Neutral. It
resulted in a string of ridiculous schizoid characters who provided
occasional comic relief but otherwise just got in the way. The grand
culmination was a massive game with 12 players and I think 2-3 DMs. We
divided into three groups, basically by alignment. A full four of us were
playing CN characters. They pretty much sat us at our own table and let us
do our own thing, since we were utterly useless for the game. Occasionally
they'd poll the table to see what our characters were doing.

DM: Okay, what's it gonna be?
CN Table Representative: We're doing the lambada.
DM: Right. Next...

Chalk another one up for Why We All Love SR So Much: no alignment to
typecast characters. :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
I would sell my soul for Hello Kitty in a kimono.
--Spiff
Message no. 3
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:42:36 -0400
Dan Grabon wrote:

> On 5/18/00 12:27 PM, Strago at strago@***.com wrote:
>
> > OR, one of my friends made a character who was insane. When confronted with
> > something, or just for the sheer hell of it, he would roll a d6. If it came up
> a 6, then
> > he'd go all goofy and do all sorts of crazy stuff like take out his combat axe
> and start
> > lopping off heads while whistling the Andy Griffith theme song. It was actually
> quite
> > amusing. And I'm sure it was fun to play. In fact, I might want to do something
> like this.
>
> Ugh... think carefully. When I was playing AD&D in high school, some
> friends and I decided to explore the mysteries of Chaotic Neutral. It
> resulted in a string of ridiculous schizoid characters who provided
> occasional comic relief but otherwise just got in the way. The grand
> culmination was a massive game with 12 players and I think 2-3 DMs. We
> divided into three groups, basically by alignment. A full four of us were
> playing CN characters. They pretty much sat us at our own table and let us
> do our own thing, since we were utterly useless for the game. Occasionally
> they'd poll the table to see what our characters were doing.
>

AH, but with my friend's character, he occasionally does stuff which is useful.
It's just that sometimes he snaps, or he overreacts (IIRC once in a Library he
picked up the worker and started to pound his head into the bookshelf because the
worker wasn't helping very much.) It's the full fun of being crazy without doing
nothing.
<SNIP>

--
--Strago

All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M P
Message no. 4
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:01:43 -0500
<snip story about silly acting chaotic nuetral D&D characters>
:DM: Okay, what's it gonna be?
:CN Table Representative: We're doing the lambada.
:DM: Right. Next...

No offense, but I don't think D&D was the problem with that group- IMO,
chaotic nuetral is about liberty (as viewed by, say, libertarians) and
personal respsonsability, not (just) being silly.

:Chalk another one up for Why We All Love SR So Much: no alignment to
:typecast characters. :)
:
:-moose


I think that most Shadowrunners would be chaotic nuetral in D&D, simply
because they generally value personal liberty very highly. They rarely
follow rules (they break contracts if thier Jhonsons screws them, the
certainly don't obey the law) and are generally willing to hurt others
(guards and informants) for thier own gain, but don't like "big evil",
somtimes going to extreme lengths to combat it.
While certain characters feel diffrently, its often the drama of having
to fight against circumstances and sterotypes that support the more common
"shadowrunner" attitude that makes them interesting.

Mongoose

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Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:39:10 -0500
From: Dan Grabon
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:32 AM

> Ugh... think carefully. When I was playing AD&D in high school,
> some friends and I decided to explore the mysteries of Chaotic
> Neutral. It resulted in a string of ridiculous schizoid characters
> who provided occasional comic relief but otherwise just got in the
> way.

<snip>

> DM: Okay, what's it gonna be?
> CN Table Representative: We're doing the lambada.
> DM: Right. Next...

With all due respect, Moose...you weren't playing CN. You were playing
Goofy. Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean "act like an idiot and get in the way."
A chaotic neutral character might chafe at rules, but that doesn't mean that
he's taken leave of his senses.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:39:22 -0500
From: Sebastian Wiers
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 11:02 AM

> <snip story about silly acting chaotic nuetral D&D characters>
> :DM: Okay, what's it gonna be?
> :CN Table Representative: We're doing the lambada.
> :DM: Right. Next...
>
> No offense, but I don't think D&D was the problem with that group- IMO,
> chaotic nuetral is about liberty (as viewed by, say, libertarians) and
> personal respsonsability, not (just) being silly.

HEAR, HEAR!!! You said it so much better than I did....

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
Message no. 7
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:47:20 +0900
On 5/18/00 11:42 PM, Strago at strago@***.com wrote:

[Snipp-- It's Snipptacious!(TM)]
> AH, but with my friend's character, he occasionally does stuff which is
> useful.
> It's just that sometimes he snaps, or he overreacts (IIRC once in a Library he
> picked up the worker and started to pound his head into the bookshelf because
> the
> worker wasn't helping very much.) It's the full fun of being crazy without
> doing
> nothing.
Ah, okay. Well, that's a bit different. I like that. :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
The shortest distance between two points is undoubtedly a curvy, winding
path, so enjoy the scenery.
-- Synchronicity
Message no. 8
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:23:22 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
> :Chalk another one up for Why We All Love SR So
> Much: no alignment to
> :typecast characters. :)
> :
> :-moose
>
> I think that most Shadowrunners would be chaotic
> nuetral in D&D, simply
> because they generally value personal liberty very
> highly. They rarely
> follow rules (they break contracts if thier Jhonsons
> screws them, the
> certainly don't obey the law) and are generally
> willing to hurt others
> (guards and informants) for thier own gain, but
> don't like "big evil",
> somtimes going to extreme lengths to combat it.
> While certain characters feel diffrently, its
> often the drama of having
> to fight against circumstances and sterotypes that
> support the more common
> "shadowrunner" attitude that makes them interesting.
>
> Mongoose

That was one thing that I liked about Shadowrun, it's
hard to play evil people in D&D, but you can be a good
guy a bad guy or a guy who just got caught in the
middle with Shadowrun. That's why I love it!

====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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Message no. 9
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:09:49 +0900
On 5/19/00 8:39 AM, Patrick Goodman at remo@***.net wrote:

> With all due respect, Moose...you weren't playing CN. You were playing
> Goofy. Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean "act like an idiot and get in the
way."
> A chaotic neutral character might chafe at rules, but that doesn't mean that
> he's taken leave of his senses.
Oh, that's definitely true. I can imagine someone playing a great (and
useful) CN character. As mentioned in another post, a lot of shadowrunners
pretty much fit the bill already. I could blame the description of CNs
given in the books, my weaker roleplaying ability at the time, or a growing
personal dissatisfaction with AD&D and my gaming group, but one way or the
other, you're right. That game was not one of my prouder moments. :)

Anyway, though, my point remains-- be wary about characters who just do
random things (for no particular reason). A genuinely insane (or at least
unbalanced) character... that'd be interesting. But quite tricky to pull
off, I'd think. Mine was an example of how *not* to do it.

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
Don't do something, just sit there!
Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > <snip story about silly acting chaotic nuetral D&D
characters>
> > :DM: Okay, what's it gonna be?
> > :CN Table Representative: We're doing the
lambada.
> > :DM: Right. Next...
> >
> > No offense, but I don't think D&D was the problem
with that group- IMO, chaotic nuetral is about liberty
(as viewed by, say, libertarians) and personal
respsonsability, not (just) being silly.
>
> HEAR, HEAR!!! You said it so much better than I
did....
> Patrick E. Goodman

Actually, yes and no.

Chaotic Neutral (along with True Neutral) was always
one of the alignments that most pissed me off. As
written, True Neutrals try to balance everything -
basically, they're crusaders for stasis. As written,
Chaotic Neutrals are insane or loons.

My PERSONAL opinion was that True Neutrals should be
out for themselves, but still respectful of laws to a
degree (a businessman who doesn't give a damn about
anyone but himself, but doesn't go breaking the law or
doing really bad things), while a Chaotic Neutral was
purely out for themselves, no matter what they had to
do (as someone said, the essential shadowrunner).

HOWEVER, the text in the books bears Moose out.
Really, one of those ones you have to know when to
throw out.

*Doc' tosses Moose out with the bathwater...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippage(TM)>
> OR, one of my friends made a character who was
insane. When confronted with something, or just for
the sheer hell of it, he would roll a d6. If it came
up a 6, then he'd go all goofy and do all sorts of
crazy stuff like take out his combat axe and start
lopping off heads while whistling the Andy Griffith
theme song. It was actually quite amusing. And I'm
sure it was fun to play. In fact, I might want to do
something like this. Doc', who was that guy in the
PBeM who needed players? I might want to try this in
his game. Give him nightmares for weeks.
>
> *Strago flashes an epg (evil player grin).*

Sorry, Strago. He's actually a friend of mine and I'd
like to keep it that way. ;)

Then again, he's after loser characters and I'm sure
if anyone could handle a maniac, he could. :)

shadowbruin@*******.com

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 12
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:03:04 +0900
On 5/19/00 12:48 PM, Rand Ratinac at docwagon101@*****.com wrote:

> My PERSONAL opinion was that True Neutrals should be
> out for themselves, but still respectful of laws to a
> degree (a businessman who doesn't give a damn about
> anyone but himself, but doesn't go breaking the law or
> doing really bad things), while a Chaotic Neutral was
> purely out for themselves, no matter what they had to
> do (as someone said, the essential shadowrunner).
Actually, now that I think about it... wasn't that the description given for
Chaotic Evil? It's been a really long time so I'm not sure, but I seem to
remember evil described as more "looking out for #1" rather than "I lunch
with devils and demons and step on puppies for fun."

> HOWEVER, the text in the books bears Moose out.
> Really, one of those ones you have to know when to
> throw out.
>
> *Doc' tosses Moose out with the bathwater...*
HEY! And this after I gave you that Doc' Vader nickname! :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
"Werewolf!"
"Werewolf?!"
"There."
"WHAT?"
"There... wolf. There... castle."
--Young Frankenstein
Message no. 13
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:17:17 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Grabon <djmoose@******.kornet.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))



>Actually, now that I think about it... wasn't that the description given
for
>Chaotic Evil? It's been a really long time so I'm not sure, but I seem to
>remember evil described as more "looking out for #1" rather than "I
lunch
>with devils and demons and step on puppies for fun."
>
>
>-moose
>
Ah, now this is nearly as bad as the insanity one, but happily limited to
old fashioned games with alignments that I have given up for Shadowrun *.
Evil characters tend to have their evil meaning they will kill prisoners and
they will try to steal all the magic items. Truly evil characters would plot
to destroy everyone around them, no matter how useful. They would join
forces with the bad guys at the first opportunity. They would be almost
unusable as characters. I actually had a CE character who was like this. He
was killed by his own party about an hour into the game, who then celebrated
by drinking all the wine he kept boasting about having. He, of course, had
poisoned the wine in the hope someone would ask for some, so he had the last
laugh.

*on topic bit
Message no. 14
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:56:53 GMT
>From: Raveness Ravensbane <ravenessravensbane@*****.com>
>That was one thing that I liked about Shadowrun, it's
>hard to play evil people in D&D, but you can be a good
>guy a bad guy or a guy who just got caught in the
>middle with Shadowrun. That's why I love it!

Depends on your GM; I like characters to have some kind of moral code; they
either try not to kill people when its not necissary or they have it all
tied up in some phylosophy. I hate it when characters just kill people
becuase it's easier than knocking them out but they have no justification of
it or ways of handling killing someone.

I think beaing evil is difficult in SR because you are either amoral and you
are hired for that or you will end up freaking too many people out and
getting shot. Having said that, playing a genuinely good character is a
definate character concept, not something you can do on the side. Every
runner is a shade of grey.

Phil
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Message no. 15
From: Grey metis76@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:41:21 -0700 (PDT)
--- Phil Smith <phil_urbanhell@*******.com> wrote:

> Every runner is a shade of grey.
>
> Phil

*opens his mouth to comment, but desides better of it*

Grey

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Message no. 16
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:29:19 -0700 (PDT)
<Snipples(TM)>
> > doing really bad things), while a Chaotic Neutral
was purely out for themselves, no matter what they had
to do (as someone said, the essential shadowrunner).

> Actually, now that I think about it... wasn't that
the description given for Chaotic Evil? It's been a
really long time so I'm not sure, but I seem to
remember evil described as more "looking out for #1"
rather than "I lunch with devils and demons and step
on puppies for fun."

Neutral Evil, I think. The Chaotics were the insane
bad guys, while the CNs were the plain insane ones. :)

I think it depends, though. With Neutral Evil, you'd
manipulate the laws to suit yourself if necessary,
break them if necessary and screw anyone and everyone
over to get ahead. With the CN shadowrunner, you don't
give a damn about the laws (although a smart one will
still make use of them), but you're only going to hurt
other people if it's absolutely necessary. You don't
go out of your way looking to hurt people. Anyone who
does is classed as a "thug" more than a shadowrunner
from what I've seen. Doing the "hurty-hurty" bit ends
up hurting yourself in the long run, so very few
shadowrunners would do that - thus giving them the CN
designation rather than NE or CE.

Jeez, I'm turning into a philospher...:)

> > HOWEVER, the text in the books bears Moose out.
Really, one of those ones you have to know when to
throw out.
> >
> > *Doc' tosses Moose out with the bathwater...*

> HEY! And this after I gave you that Doc' Vader
nickname! :)
> -moose

What can I say? I'm careless.

*Doc' swings around, accidentally clubbing Moose
across the back of the head with the plank of wood
he's holding...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 17
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:00:02 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))


><Snipples(TM)>
>I think it depends, though. With Neutral Evil, you'd
>manipulate the laws to suit yourself if necessary,
>break them if necessary and screw anyone and everyone
>over to get ahead.

Lawful Evil is the one that manipulates the laws to suit themselves. Most
politicians and role players would be Lawful Evil :?)

I really don't like D&D much. This thread is one good reason why.
Message no. 18
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:19:40 +0900
> Jeez, I'm turning into a philospher...:)
I hardly think Kant or Jung had a lot to say on alignments. Pop
psychologist, maybe. :)

> *Doc' swings around, accidentally clubbing Moose
> across the back of the head with the plank of wood
> he's holding...*
*and pokes his eye out on a set of antlers :) *

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
The best things in life are silly.
-- Scott Adams
Message no. 19
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Jeez, I'm turning into a philospher...:)

> I hardly think Kant or Jung had a lot to say on
alignments. Pop psychologist, maybe. :)

That, too...

> > *Doc' swings around, accidentally clubbing Moose
across the back of the head with the plank of wood
he's holding...*

> *and pokes his eye out on a set of antlers :) *

*Doc' breathes a sigh of relief and pulls out a spare.
"Lucky that wasn't my telescoping cyberpenis. I just
had that thing installed!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 20
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:27:45 GMT
>From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
> > > *Doc' swings around, accidentally clubbing Moose
>across the back of the head with the plank of wood
>he's holding...*
>
> > *and pokes his eye out on a set of antlers :) *
>
>*Doc' breathes a sigh of relief and pulls out a spare.
>"Lucky that wasn't my telescoping cyberpenis. I just
>had that thing installed!"*

You know Doc, for someone who has just had one of those things installed,
you're a damn good shot; watering the folwers across the street 'n all :)>

Phil
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Message no. 21
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
> > > *and pokes his eye out on a set of antlers :) *
> >
> >*Doc' breathes a sigh of relief and pulls out a
spare. "Lucky that wasn't my telescoping cyberpenis. I
just had that thing installed!"*
>
> You know Doc, for someone who has just had one of
those things installed, you're a damn good shot;
watering the folwers across the street 'n all :)>

Shh, Phil, that's my party trick! You shouldn't be
telling everyone about it.

Anyway, how good a shot do you have to be when you're
only a foot away from the flowers?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 22
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:46:26 GMT
>From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
> > >*Doc' breathes a sigh of relief and pulls out a
>spare. "Lucky that wasn't my telescoping cyberpenis. I
>just had that thing installed!"*
> >
> > You know Doc, for someone who has just had one of
>those things installed, you're a damn good shot;
>watering the folwers across the street 'n all :)>
>
>Shh, Phil, that's my party trick! You shouldn't be
>telling everyone about it.
>
>Anyway, how good a shot do you have to be when you're
>only a foot away from the flowers?

I'm not that good at judging ranges; I was behind cover at the time.

Phil

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Message no. 23
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Crazy Characters (was Re: Edges and Flaws (was Addiction))
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
> ><Snipples(TM)>
> >I think it depends, though. With Neutral Evil,
you'd manipulate the laws to suit yourself if
necessary, break them if necessary and screw anyone
and everyone over to get ahead.
>
> Lawful Evil is the one that manipulates the laws to
suit themselves. Most politicians and role players
would be Lawful Evil :?)

Don't take me out of context, Simon. I said, and I
quote, "you'd manipulate the laws to suit yourself if
necessary, break them if necessary". Basically, lawful
evils operate within the letter of the law to get what
they want, even if they twist the spirit. Chaotic
evils break the law left, right and centre. And
Neutral evils will either use or discard the law,
depending on whichever will suit them best.

And I agree with your last sentence...mostly. :)
Powergamers are lawful evil, munchkins are chaotic
evil and politicians are neutral evil. :)

*Doc' would say he's Chaotic Neutral, but doesn't want
to be pigeonholed. "Don't call me Neutral! I'm too
crazy to be Neutral!!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Thwap!