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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Crime and punishment
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:18:25 -0500
> Your normal street sam with their wires and razors and smartgun links >and the
like are in an even bigger hurt <snip>
> Not only are they going to do a lot of jail time, they also are almost certainly
going to have that illegal cyber removed...which may leave them blind and without a limb
or two in a seriously vicious >prison.

Not that it automatically aplies to SR, but toady, it is considered
constitutionally illegal in the US to perform surgery on a suspect or
covict without his consent. This is likely to hold for life endangering
surgery- else, why have execution laws?
Of course, FASA gives justification for other medical procedures, like
simsense conditioning, being "voluntary". I'm just suprised FASA
automatically assumes that your cyber can legally be removed.
In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can loose up
to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.

-Mongoose-the-you-can-pry-my-wires-from-my-cold-dead-spine-samurai
Message no. 2
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:58:15 -0400
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Wafflemeisters wrote:
> In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can loose up
> to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
> wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
> ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.

True, but it would be possible to disable or even destroy the cyber
without removing it.

Bioware, IMHO, would be more difficult to deal with. A synthacardium can't
very well be turned off, for example.
Message no. 3
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:13:30 +1000
Wafflemiesters writes:
>> Your normal street sam with their wires and razors and smartgun links
>and the like are in an even bigger hurt <snip>
>> Not only are they going to do a lot of jail time, they also are almost
certainly going to have that illegal cyber removed...which may leave them
blind and without a limb or two in a seriously vicious >prison.
>
> Not that it automatically aplies to SR, but toady, it is considered
>constitutionally illegal in the US to perform surgery on a suspect or
>covict without his consent. This is likely to hold for life endangering
>surgery- else, why have execution laws?
> Of course, FASA gives justification for other medical procedures,
like
>simsense conditioning, being "voluntary". I'm just suprised FASA
>automatically assumes that your cyber can legally be removed.


Yeah. "Just sign this form, and we'll halve your sentence..."

> In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can
loose up
>to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
>wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
>ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.


In my game, cyber is not removed automatically when a person is convicted.
When arrested, a temporary disabler is inserted. When convicted, the
disabler is inserted surgically (no consent required, but it's a trivial
operation), and wired in. Removing a disabler is a _very_ tricky operation
(Cybertechnology 10 test). The cyber itself is not removed as there is
potential for serious damage, but if a person is convicted _only_ of the
possession of the cyber, getting it removed voluntarily counts as bonus
points towards parole. Furthermore, the state is liable for replacing, with
functional parts, any cyber that's removed (e.g, take out cybereyes, they
have to put in non-enhanced eyes. Loose an enhanced arm, you get a
non-enhanced arm (with similar cosmetic mods))

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 4
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:55:31 +0100
And verily, did Jeremiah Stevens hastily scribble thusly...
|
|On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Wafflemeisters wrote:
|> In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can loose up
|> to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
|> wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
|> ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.
|
|True, but it would be possible to disable or even destroy the cyber
|without removing it.
|
|Bioware, IMHO, would be more difficult to deal with. A synthacardium can't
|very well be turned off, for example.
|

And any bioware directly wired into the brain ban never be removed....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 5
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:29:00 PDT
>> Your normal street sam with their wires and razors and smartgun links
>and the like are in an even bigger hurt <snip>
>> Not only are they going to do a lot of jail time, they also are
almost certainly going to have that illegal cyber removed...which may
leave them blind and without a limb or two in a seriously vicious
>prison.

> In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can
loose up
>to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
>wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
>ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.

I agree. I believe it states somewhere-though I'm not sure it's
cannon- that convicted criminals with cyberware get Safe-T-Bonds(tm). A
device or series of devices attached throughout your body that either
keeps you from using cyberware(e.g. Turns it off), restricts you from
using cyberware(you use it, it blows you up) or alrams someone if you do
use it(probably not used in prisons as much as airlines or other
facilities).


-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
"Sure, there's an order to the universe, but this time I
think the Big Guy forgot the pepperoni."
-Liam Bough


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Message no. 6
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:41:10 -0700
----------
> From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Crime and punishment
> Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 4:58 PM
>
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Wafflemeisters wrote:
> > In many cases, that would be life-endangering surgery: you can
loose up
> > to 10% of the wares eesnce in removing it. Try taking out somebody's
> > wired 3 reflex and see what happens whan they loose .5 essence- nine in
> > ten they will DIE, having had less than .5 before the surgery.
>
> True, but it would be possible to disable or even destroy the cyber
> without removing it.
>
> Bioware, IMHO, would be more difficult to deal with. A synthacardium
can't
> very well be turned off, for example.

Not easily, at least. ;)

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!