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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Daniel Powell)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Wed Apr 17 10:00:01 2002
>Not by a long way, the noise a bullet makes is barely audible, totally
>unaudible if you're on the recieving end. The noise the arrow makes is far
>louder and will reach you a little before the arrow. it's made partly by
>the flights but mostly ...>

I question this and it brings up a standard question I've had for a long
time. Can weapons that fire ammunition that travels over the speed of sound
ever be "silenced". When you fire a rifle, that loud "CRACK" you hear
is
the bullet breaking the sound barrier, not the gunpowder exploding. So can
anything that doesn't fire sub-sonic ammunition ever be silenced? BTW, the
load required to make most rifles sub sonic would also make them relatively
ineffective as weapons as well. Am I off base on these assumptions?

Daniel

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Little)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Wed Apr 17 10:20:01 2002
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Daniel Powell wrote:

>
> >Not by a long way, the noise a bullet makes is barely audible, totally
> >unaudible if you're on the recieving end. The noise the arrow makes is far
> >louder and will reach you a little before the arrow. it's made partly by
> >the flights but mostly ...>
>
> I question this and it brings up a standard question I've had for a long
> time. Can weapons that fire ammunition that travels over the speed of sound
> ever be "silenced". When you fire a rifle, that loud "CRACK" you
hear is
> the bullet breaking the sound barrier, not the gunpowder exploding. So can
> anything that doesn't fire sub-sonic ammunition ever be silenced? BTW, the
> load required to make most rifles sub sonic would also make them relatively
> ineffective as weapons as well. Am I off base on these assumptions?
>


I read an article some years ago about the French Foreign Legion testing a
silencer on a Barrett light 50 to make it more difficult to locate the
shooter rather than to silence the actual crack of the round. Never
actually saw a picture though so it could have been creative writing
by the author.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Wed Apr 17 10:35:01 2002
At 11:35 17.04.2002 -0400, Martin Little wrote:

<snip>

> > I question this and it brings up a standard question I've had for a long
> > time. Can weapons that fire ammunition that travels over the speed of
> sound
> > ever be "silenced". When you fire a rifle, that loud
"CRACK" you hear is
> > the bullet breaking the sound barrier, not the gunpowder exploding. So
> can
> > anything that doesn't fire sub-sonic ammunition ever be silenced? BTW,
> the
> > load required to make most rifles sub sonic would also make them
> relatively
> > ineffective as weapons as well. Am I off base on these assumptions?

An non-subsonic round cannot be effectively silenced, if you want to retain
it's hyper-sonic speed. Note though that the HK MP5SD submachinegun feeds
normal ammo and drops it to subsonic speed. If you use sub-sonic ammo with
a silenced weapon, you lose range and penetration power. It's possible to
compensate this with a heavier bullet, though. There's for exampel the .300
Whisper, a 5.56 mm cartridge with a 7,62 mm bullet. You only have to change
the barrel of the M16 (or other 5.56 mm rifle) to use this munition.
Oh, and a silencer always alters the sound of a weapon. You maybe be left
with the crack, but it's better than nothing.

>I read an article some years ago about the French Foreign Legion testing a
>silencer on a Barrett light 50 to make it more difficult to locate the
>shooter rather than to silence the actual crack of the round. Never
>actually saw a picture though so it could have been creative writing
>by the author.

Accuracy International offers a silenced version of their AW50 .50BMG
sniper rifle:

http://www.ketmer.com/ai/defense/aw50/index.htm

(There's nothing about the suppressed model on
www.accuracyinternational.com , though)


--
Arclight
eMail : arclight @*********.de
"First law of holes: If you get in one, stop digging."
From Rumsfelds Rules
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Wed Apr 17 10:55:05 2002
>From: "Daniel Powell" <l0_jak@*******.com>
<snip>
>ever be "silenced". When you fire a rifle, that loud "CRACK" you
hear is
>the bullet breaking the sound barrier, not the gunpowder exploding.

The loud crack is actually the gasses behind the bullet escaping the barrel,
the bullet breaks the sound barrier long before it leaves the barrel and
most of the "sonic boom's" energy is taken up by the barrel itself. A
silencer "prevents" this by providing lots of little spaces for the gasses
to go, relieving the pressure and reducing the "bang". modern silenced
weapons aren't noiseless but they are a lot quieter than unsilenced but
subsonic ammunition is required to use them to full effect (i.e. noise
levels not much greater than cycling the action by hand)


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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Wed Apr 17 12:20:19 2002
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Little [mailto:grimjack@******.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 17, April, 2002 11:36 AM
To: shadowrn@*********.com
Subject: Re: Crossbows - almost off topic


On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Daniel Powell wrote:

>
> >Not by a long way, the noise a bullet makes is barely audible, totally
> >unaudible if you're on the recieving end. The noise the arrow makes is
far
> >louder and will reach you a little before the arrow. it's made partly by
> >the flights but mostly ...>
>
> I question this and it brings up a standard question I've had for a long
> time. Can weapons that fire ammunition that travels over the speed of
sound
> ever be "silenced". When you fire a rifle, that loud "CRACK" you
hear is
> the bullet breaking the sound barrier, not the gunpowder exploding. So
can
> anything that doesn't fire sub-sonic ammunition ever be silenced? BTW,
the
> load required to make most rifles sub sonic would also make them
relatively
> ineffective as weapons as well. Am I off base on these assumptions?
>


>I read an article some years ago about the French Foreign Legion testing a
>silencer on a Barrett light 50 to make it more difficult to locate the
>shooter rather than to silence the actual crack of the round. Never
>actually saw a picture though so it could have been creative writing
>by the author.

I think the Barrett light 50 silencer is working to get rid of the 4 foot
flame that comes out of the barrel and the puff of smoke that drifts lazily
above the sniper.

Coyote
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Crossbows - almost off topic
Date: Tue Apr 23 13:20:01 2002
In article <F225ylrQa7kaHvHJ1i900000e02@*******.com>, Lone Eagle
<loneeagle2061@*******.com> writes
>The loud crack is actually the gasses behind the bullet escaping the
>barrel,

No. A supersonic bullet from an unsuppressed rifle produces _two_
distinct sounds. The first thing you hear is the n-wave, a very sharp
and clear "crack"; this is the shockwave produced by the supersonic
bullet passing you. The second thing you hear is the p-wave, a duller
"thump". This is the muzzle blast of the weapon.

The technique of "crack-thump ranging" lets you estimate crudely how far
you are from the shooter: roughly three hundred metres for every
second's separation of the two sounds.

Some sniper-location systems use an array of microphones, activated by
the n-wave, to detect the p-wave and measure the curvature of its
wavefront: this allows the shooter's location to be detected, with
remarkable accuracy in good conditions. Systems like this have been in
service for some years.

--
Paul J. Adam

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