Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:20:29 -0400
Does anyone have any knowledge of real life varieties of crossbow bolts? What
types of bolts are available? Just what can a crossbow bolt be designed to do
(i.e. can it have an explosive charge, can it pierce armor effectively, can it
carry a line, etc.)?

I am considering creating a character whose weapon of choice is a crossbow.
Unfortunately, SRUN doesn't really give a lot of variety when it comes to
different types of bolts and arrows, etc.

I would also be interested in knowing what mods can be made/added to
crossbows. Can you add a smartlink or a laser sight to one? What about
customization?

Also, what mods would have to be made to the current stats of a crossbow if
you were to fire a dual shafted version? (i.e. fires 2 bolts) Would laser
sights or smartlinks be available for such crossbows, etc?

Thanks for your input--I really wish I had more real life knowledge of this.
:)


(I have attempted posting this already, but I never got a confirmation from
the mailer and have not seen any responses...I apologize if this is a multiple
post.)



Justin :)

_______________________________________________________________
(jpinnow@*****.edu)

Geek Code (version 2.1):

G!>ED d----(d+/d++$) H s-: !g p? au
a23 w+(+++) v?(*)>!v C+(++) U- P? !L
!3 E? N+ K- W+ M+ V+ po---
Y++(+) t+@ 5 !j R+(++) G' tv-- b++>+++
!D B--- e+ u+ h- f? r+(*) N----
Y++

It all starts from within you.
Message no. 2
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:48:56 BST
> Does anyone have any knowledge of real life varieties of crossbow bolts?
> What types of bolts are available?

Not exactly, but I used to do a lot of archery, and I've read
quite a bit about the subject.... (I think)

I use the following variant arrows/bolts in SR :-

Target heads A thin pointy head, designed to make a nice clean hole in the
paper (a wadcutter), -1 Wound level, but -1 impact also
Broad heads a heavy, hunting head with barbs, +1 Power

Spinners :- I have no idea what these are actually called, but they
have retractable blades on the head, attached to a weight
that runs up and doewn the hollow shaft. When you shoot the
bolt, the inertia of the weight pulls it to the back of the
shaft, and the baldes are pulled in.
If the arrow decelerates suddenly (like hitting someone),
the weight sslides forward and the baldes are hammered out
into the target.

kind a like dual-purpose soft lead//penetrator rounds.
I figure +1 Wound level, -1 arour

Then you get blunt hunting heads (for arrows anyway) cheaper than
regular and designed to kill small game without making a total
mess of them. Stun damage rather than physical possibly x2 impact.


You know whistling-arrows, no matter what **&* says, you don't have
to have a hollow head, if you drill a small hole in the side of the bolt-
head, the wind rushing over that hole will produce a whistling sound you
can hear from about 100Yards away.

Smartlink and Laser sight, no problem, though you might want to alter
the mods at longer ranges due to the arc of the bolt's flight. Customization
is no problem, you should see some of the things they do to bows to get them to shoot
straight now...

2 Shafts? oooh, it'd probably reduce the tension in the string some, due
to part of the string being stretched horizontally behind the two knocks,
so reduce the power a bit. For laser, just use two sights, and for Smart,
modify the veiw so it places two crosshairs, or one large line showing
the two predicted points of impact. Of course trading straight back to a
AK might confuse the firmware :-)

WAFFLE-MODE...OFF!

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:00:00 GMT
Justin Pinnow writes
>
> Also, what mods would have to be made to the current stats of a crossbow if
> you were to fire a dual shafted version? (i.e. fires 2 bolts) Would laser
> sights or smartlinks be available for such crossbows, etc?
>
real world, cannot help.
SR - see the bow accessory mount in street sams, yes you can have
smartguns, laser sights e.t.c.

Mark
Message no. 4
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:22:29 -0400
>2 Shafts? oooh, it'd probably reduce the tension in the string some, due
>to part of the string being stretched horizontally behind the two knocks,
>so reduce the power a bit. For laser, just use two sights, and for Smart,
>modify the veiw so it places two crosshairs, or one large line showing
>the two predicted points of impact. Of course trading straight back to a
>AK might confuse the firmware :-)

Actually, from what I have seen (unfortunately, that isn't much) the dual
shafted crossbows tend to load one *above* the other, not next to it. They
use 2 seperate strings to cock the shafts. There is a connector between the 2
strings though that lets you put it back and have both strings cock at
once...I would assume this takes a bit more strength to do, however ;)

(ever watch Ladyhawke? beautiful dual shafted heavy crossbow in that movie...)


From what I understand, you can get different tips for your arrows/bolts that
screw on. Now, some bolts/arrows may have to be specially designed for
certain effects, but for the most part it seems you can get "generic" shafts
and use them for different types of heads. Also, with the velocity carried by
a bolt, I have been told that it tends to penetrate deeper than most bullets
just due to length, if nothing else. For basic bolts, I would assume this is
accounted for in the damage code, but what about armor piercing bolts, etc?
It seems feasable that you can due most of the things with bolts/arrows that
you do with many types of bullets. (for example: bullet-proof vests aren't
nearly as effective against arrows due to the penetrating nature of the arrow
(due to the length of the shaft, etc.).)

Thanks for your suggestions, Phil! :)


More! I want More! :)


Justin :)

_______________________________________________________________
(jpinnow@*****.edu)

Geek Code (version 2.1):

G!>ED d----(d+/d++$) H s-: !g p? au
a23 w+(+++) v?(*)>!v C+(++) U- P? !L
!3 E? N+ K- W+ M+ V+ po---
Y++(+) t+@ 5 !j R+(++) G' tv-- b++>+++
!D B--- e+ u+ h- f? r+(*) N----
Y++

It all starts from within you.
Message no. 5
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:43:44 BST
> Actually, from what I have seen (unfortunately, that isn't much) the dual
> shafted crossbows tend to load one *above* the other, not next to it. They
> use 2 seperate strings to cock the shafts. There is a connector between the 2
> strings though that lets you put it back and have both strings cock at
> once...I would assume this takes a bit more strength to do, however ;)

> (ever watch Ladyhawke? beautiful dual shafted heavy crossbow in that movie...)

Ah right, if we're talking over and under double XBows, then no problem,
and yes, Ladyhawke was a good laugh, one of these days I will have a
character called mouse :-)

As to armour-piercing XBow bolts, they already do go through armour
better than bullets, after all they use Impact armour, and unless the
other guy has stocked up on bone-lace, orthoskin and a helmet, his
impact will be less than his ballistic.


For an over and under XBow, what you're looking at is two bolts with
roughlyhalf the pull each, so you're looking at working as hard to
pulll a medium XBOw (can be cocked by hand with a belt-hook, or
whatever) to throw two light (damage, etc) bolts.


There was an argument a while back about how effective medieval armour
would be in SR terms, look for it under medieval armour it's quite good.
They also mentioned that a lot of the reason bolts slowed down was due
to the petalling effect of the armour, ie. the armour split into petals,
each of which went along the shaft of the arrow as it penetrated, causing
friction and slowing the arrow more rapidly..

I'm sure I've seen a side-by-side double XBow somehwere ya know, Waylander
had an over-and-under, now where was it.....


You should be able to put light grenades on the head of an arrow, but they
would be very small, something along the lines of 8M, -1 power p[er half
metre is what I;ve been using. Oh, and the wight would easily half the range
of the shot.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 6
From: WyldRose <kidkaos@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Crossbows and bolts
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 22:40:35 -0500
Justin stated:
>Does anyone have any knowledge of real life varieties of crossbow bolts? What
>types of bolts are available? Just what can a crossbow bolt be designed to do
>(i.e. can it have an explosive charge, can it pierce armor effectively, can it
>carry a line, etc.)?

I hate to admit it, but I was in the SCA at one time. They have crossbow
contests so I have seen a lot of different styles of crossbows, have even
fired a couple and own a small one myself. If there is an SCA (society for
Creative Anachronism) group near you, ask to talk to someone in the Archery
guild and they can get you in touch with whomever the local crossbow
maker/marksmen in your area. Most will GLADLY show off all their different
bows and bolts.
The only double crossbows I've ever seen are over/under. The bolts have to
be more solid than arrows to survive the firing, and most crossbows have a
crank for loading. Some bows can be taken apart and transported in very
little space, but require time (2 minutes and tools) to put back together.
Note that it has the capacity to travel further but Most books place
accuracy at 60 yards or less. I personally am not very good at hitting a
target beyond 30 yards.
And yes, the bolts could be explosive tipped and you can buy those today
at some stores, although in some places it is still illegal to own a
crossbow, and in many states in the US you cannot hunt with a crossbow.
Other tips you might use are paint tips (to mark a target) and there are
some modern arrows that allow you to track a hit, (with a small radio
device), broadheads, drug tips, target bolts, fishing bolts (for hitting and
realing fish in)
Ancient crossbows are in general less powerful than modern crossbows. The
crankin can be attached to your belt so you can get to it, or on a big
crossbow you could attach something to your boot to allow a body pull to set
the crossbow.
I've seen some bolts which are litterally pole-barn spikes with the head
modified, so I'm sure that you could use a pretty hefty explosive as long as
you custom made the bolt. My only question would be which impact sets off
the charge :) (the firing or the hitting)
>
>I am considering creating a character whose weapon of choice is a crossbow.
>Unfortunately, SRUN doesn't really give a lot of variety when it comes to
>different types of bolts and arrows, etc.
>
>I would also be interested in knowing what mods can be made/added to
>crossbows. Can you add a smartlink or a laser sight to one? What about
>customization?
You can buy laser sights now, all cross bows come with a crude sight.
Unlike regular bows and compound bows, crossbow bolts are more even in their
flight. (do not arch as much as arrows) I guess you could smart gun link,
but why? Targeting with laser is good already and the weapon is NOT a spead
weapon after you fire it the first time. yes you could customize and it
wouldn't be real hard to find someone to customize your bow. HOWEVER, it
would also be easy to identify customized work and track it back to you.
>
>Also, what mods would have to be made to the current stats of a crossbow if
>you were to fire a dual shafted version? (i.e. fires 2 bolts) Would laser
>sights or smartlinks be available for such crossbows, etc?
For the second shot aim 2 inches high. Practice would make it better. Also
with laser sights you should be able to double your accuracy so say 60 to
80 yards.
kay

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Crossbows and bolts, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!