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From:	MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject:	Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Mon, 4 May 1998 12:08:27 -0400

Message no. 1 Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;

>Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
>I can't see why it would ... I'm just starting down this train of thought
>but ... I think cyber should incur body index (this, btw, would prevent a
>chrome king from loading up on bioware). I see the cyber as doing more
>"damage" to the aura (or perhaps it would be appropriate to say the
>synchrinicty of the aura) than to the body index... but still raising the
>body index some ... bioware would be the reverse ...what do you think?

Well unless you believe in perpetual motion machines there would be.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect
the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.

I would also drop the "no death on the operating table" rule since
if the character wanted to gamble to get all this great stuff he has to
stake something for it.

And what about a Bioware version of cyberpsychosis?

-MC23, who is now thinking about Prometheus Unbound-

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Mon, 4 May 1998 12:33:43 +0000

Message no. 2 > the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.

Tanstaafl

> And what about a Bioware version of cyberpsychosis?

Don't say that, I'm hoping they'll develop bioware hand replacements

> -MC23, who is now thinking about Prometheus Unbound-

-=SwiftOne=-
Who is suffering great pain after four hours of solid typing to pound
out 30 pages for his final papers.

Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie

From:	losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Mon, 4 May 1998 13:21:53 -0400

Message no. 3 At 12:08 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Well unless you believe in perpetual motion machines there would be.
>Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
>cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
>Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
>scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
>more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect
>the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.

Yep. And I scoff as well. I'm going to soon be playing in a campaign with
nothing available except what is in the basic rulebook. Never mind three
supplements on cyber, one on weapons, two on magic, ad infinitum, we're
just going to play good old-fashioned Shadowrun like mamma used to bake. :)

> I would also drop the "no death on the operating table" rule since
>if the character wanted to gamble to get all this great stuff he has to
>stake something for it.

Well, I think in the BBB it refers to table deaths being 'rare' in 2050,
which I can agree with. If it wasn't pretty safe, almost no one would risk
it (who could afford it anyway), and it wouldn't be profitable.

losthalo

From:	Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Mon, 4 May 1998 20:48:22 -0500

Message no. 4 On Mon, 4 May 1998, MC23 wrote:

> Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
> cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
> Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
> scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
> more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect

[snip bioware argument]

but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
it affect magicians adversely...

From:	Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Tue, 5 May 1998 11:54:47 +1000

Message no. 5 On Shadowrun Discussion, Jonathan Andrews[SMTP:jmandrews@*******.EDU]
wrote:
> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then
how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic,
but
> it affect magicians adversely...

If you accept the estoeric theories about energy flow through the body
(say either the Yoga ones about chakras and nadis, or the Chinese ch'i
and meridian lines), then any foriegn stuff inserted into the body
disrupts the energy flow through the body. This includes things like
cancer, or things like cyberware and bioware.

Personally, I don't have any problem with it

cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100

Message no. 6 losthalo said on 13:21/ 4 May 98...

> Yep. And I scoff as well. I'm going to soon be playing in a campaign with
> nothing available except what is in the basic rulebook. Never mind three
> supplements on cyber, one on weapons, two on magic, ad infinitum, we're
> just going to play good old-fashioned Shadowrun like mamma used to bake. :)

Hey, another one! :) Yesterday a few members of my group came to the
conclusion that to solve the current troubles we're in (caused by rivalry
and infighting between characters, thankfully not players (yet *Gurth
crosses his fingers*)) is to start again with brand-new characters, and
say all the other stuff didn't happen.

Anyway we linked this to an old idea of mine to start a campaign in 2050,
following the order FASA-published adventures came out in -- starting with
DNA/DOA, followed by Mercurial, and so on. Hardly anything is available
except what's in SRII, the Grimoire, and one or two other books subject to
GM approval. All the gear will only be for sale once the dates in the book
come by in the campaign -- no SSC until late 2050/early 2051, bioware
won't be available until 2052, and so on.

Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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From:	Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Tue, 5 May 1998 07:58:10 -0400

Message no. 7 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:30 AM 5/5/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Anyway we linked this to an old idea of mine to start a campaign in
2050,
>following the order FASA-published adventures came out in -- starting
with
>DNA/DOA

<Astonishment>
GASP!
<Astonishment/>

You're kidding? You're actually going to play DNA/DOA? I have a copy
of it (merely for collecting purposes) and when I read it, it barely
even seemed like Shadowrun to me. I guess there were a lot of growing
pains in the really early books, before they had a set theme laid
down.

My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and untried
back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write their first
module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in SR's clothes.

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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA

From:	"Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Tue, 5 May 1998 15:22:28 -0300

Message no. 8 Jonathan Andrews escreveu:

> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
> it affect magicians adversely...

I believe "high-grade" cyberware doesn't have organic components,
it's just
built more carefully and is adjusted to the individual user. Normal
cyber doesn't
have this, it's quite generic (like, pre-defined sizes, etc.). Alpha
would have
some adjustable settings, Beta would be custom-fit. Delta, well, every
idividual
chip and bolt of those is propably made specially for the individual.
Wich each
increasing grade, the cyber is more and more adjusted to the user,
making it less
invasive. It doesn't mean organic components or magic.

Ubiratan

From:	Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
Date:	Fri, 8 May 1998 01:17:54 -0500

Message no. 9 Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
>
> Jonathan Andrews escreveu:
>
> > but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
> > come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
> > it affect magicians adversely...
>
> I believe "high-grade" cyberware doesn't have organic components,
> it's just
> built more carefully and is adjusted to the individual user. Normal
> cyber doesn't have this, it's quite generic (like, pre-defined sizes, etc.)

Think of it like going to the taylor sure I can go and buy an "off the
rack" Blazer
or suit and it will look and fit like it too.

> Alpha would have some adjustable settings

More like minor alterations slacks and jackets that have not cut to
length until someone buys them.
most better clothing shops carry this type of items.

> Beta would be custom-fit.
This would be along the lines of venting a jacket and/or pegging slacks.

> Delta well, every idividual chip and bolt of those is propably made specially for the
individual.

About Deltaware you are correct it has to do with the quality and
design.
It says each piece is custom made

> increasing grade, the cyber is more and more adjusted to the user,
> making it less invasive. It doesn't mean organic components or magic.

Those fall into the bioware and cybermancy which are unrelated to the
grade of cyber.

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