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Message no. 1
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:15:10 -0500
If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
like a regular cyberdeck?



Enigma
Message no. 2
From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:31:47 -0600
Sight Unseen wrote:
>
> If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
> Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
> like a regular cyberdeck?
>
> Enigma

My group plays it with Cybertech B/R and Computer B/R skill averaged.
Message no. 3
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:58:05 +0000
Enigma wrote:

> If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
> Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
> like a regular cyberdeck?

I'd say that it'd be the same as repairing a regular deck with
perhaps a higher target number to reflect the nonstandard format.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:33:13 +0100
Sight Unseen said on 15:15/13 Nov 96...

> If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
> Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
> like a regular cyberdeck?

Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get at
it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
and there's your deck).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
superficial urgency
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 5
From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:13:01 -0600
Gurth wrote:
>
> Sight Unseen said on 15:15/13 Nov 96...
>
> > If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
> > Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
> > like a regular cyberdeck?
>
> Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
> installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get at
> it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
> and there's your deck).
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> superficial urgency
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version 3.1:
> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
be worth it...
Message no. 6
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:59:11 -0800
> From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
>
> Gurth wrote:
> >
> > Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
> > installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get at
> > it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
> > and there's your deck).
> >
>
> If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
> deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
> be worth it...
>
I would guess that the cost multiplier reflects the need to use smaller
and/or lower powered components to be able to get the deck to fit into
the space available. You might need smaller/more precise tools to work
on it as well.

Mike Paff
Message no. 7
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:46:48 -0800
> > From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
> >
> > Gurth wrote:
> > >
> > > Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
> > > installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get at
> > > it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
> > > and there's your deck).
> >
> > If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
> > deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
> > be worth it...

Worth it? How many corps let you waltz into their domain as a stranger lugging
around an obvious deck? How many corporate (read: legal) decker's carry thier
decks around with them? It gets you in places easier..and even better..it's
ALWAYS with you.

> I would guess that the cost multiplier reflects the need to use smaller
> and/or lower powered components to be able to get the deck to fit into
> the space available. You might need smaller/more precise tools to work
> on it as well.
>
> Mike Paff

Yeah, all as above, and don't forget to mention that it's ALL non-standard
stuff..the whole deck is completely custom.

-Tim
Message no. 8
From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:13:00 -0600
Timothy P Cooper wrote:
>
> > > From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
> > >
> > > Gurth wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
> > > > installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get
at
> > > > it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
> > > > and there's your deck).
> > >
> > > If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
> > > deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
> > > be worth it...
>
> Worth it? How many corps let you waltz into their domain as a stranger lugging
> around an obvious deck? How many corporate (read: legal) decker's carry thier
> decks around with them? It gets you in places easier..and even better..it's
> ALWAYS with you.
>
> > I would guess that the cost multiplier reflects the need to use smaller
> > and/or lower powered components to be able to get the deck to fit into
> > the space available. You might need smaller/more precise tools to work
> > on it as well.
> >
> > Mike Paff
>
> Yeah, all as above, and don't forget to mention that it's ALL non-standard
> stuff..the whole deck is completely custom.
>
> -Tim

I was just thinking... for a 500KnY deck to be installed in an arm...
Cost times 4... that's 2MnY for a deck. Don't know about you, but if I
had 2 million to spend I'd just retire and be done with it. :)
Message no. 9
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:15:05 -0800
Edward Poe:

> I was just thinking... for a 500KnY deck to be installed in an arm...
> Cost times 4... that's 2MnY for a deck. Don't know about you, but if I
> had 2 million to spend I'd just retire and be done with it. :)

Yeah, but when you decker is a greedy SOB, 2 mil just isn't quite enough. ;)

-Tim
Message no. 10
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:19:52 -0500
At 09:13 AM 11/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Gurth wrote:
>>
>> Sight Unseen said on 15:15/13 Nov 96...
>>
>> > If you put a cyberdeck in a cyber arm, do you have to use some
>> > Biotech skills every time you want to upgrade the hardware, or is it more
>> > like a regular cyberdeck?
>>
>> Just like a regular deck, I think. It's just a bunch of electronics
>> installed in the middle of a mechanical arm, you should be able to get at
>> it with any reasonable toolkit (unscrew a few cover panels on the arm,
>> and there's your deck).
>>

>If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
>deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
>be worth it...

Could just be the smaller size. It doesn't have to interface
directly with flesh, so it's cheaper than cranial cyberdeck stuff, but it
has to fit inside the confines of a cyberarm. Just a theory.


Enigma
Message no. 11
From: Shad Owens <shadow@******.LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:36:34 -0800
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Timothy P Cooper wrote:

>
> Worth it? How many corps let you waltz into their domain as a stranger lugging
> around an obvious deck? How many corporate (read: legal) decker's carry thier
> decks around with them? It gets you in places easier..and even better..it's
> ALWAYS with you.

Yes, but how many corps let you waltz into their domain with a
cyber-arm? Or, for that matter -- any place with _any_ sort of security
is going to scan for weapons/cyberware -- at least with an outside deck,
you can leave it at home, or ship it ahead, so you can still take a plane
or enter a higher security area without being hassled. Unless, of
course, you were willing to take off the arm when ever you go out... :)

Jennie (the decker who decided *not* to get a c2 deck...)
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:53:42 +0100
Edward Poe said on 9:13/14 Nov 96...

> If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
> deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
> be worth it...

I have no idea. It makes absolutely no sense to me to make a cranial deck
cost *more* when installed in an arm. If you are willing to accept a
non-game-world explanation, I'll keep it at "game balance"... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A little bit more on-edge.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 13
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:40:37 UT
>On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Timothy P Cooper wrote:
>
>>
>> Worth it? How many corps let you waltz into their domain as a >stranger
lugging
>> around an obvious deck? How many corporate (read: legal) decker's >carry
thier
>> decks around with them? It gets you in places easier..and even
>better..it's
>> ALWAYS with you.
>
>Yes, but how many corps let you waltz into their domain with a
>cyber-arm? Or, for that matter -- any place with _any_ sort of security
>is going to scan for weapons/cyberware -- at least with an outside deck,
>you can leave it at home, or ship it ahead, so you can still take a plane
>or enter a higher security area without being hassled. Unless, of
>course, you were willing to take off the arm when ever you go out... :)
>
>Jennie (the decker who decided *not* to get a c2 deck...)
Just a thought, why not leave the deck out side in the car and have some sort
of transmitter (external disguised as something else) that you can plug into
your datajack, transmits to your deck which transmits to the device you are
hacking, Case did something similar in Neuromancer (that book we all worship
:) ) I can't remeber which bit but it was in the tug and he jacked in through
the navigational modem.....
just a thought.. :)

Tim (not the other one)
Message no. 14
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:14:59 -0800
>
> Edward Poe said on 9:13/14 Nov 96...
>
> > If that's so, Gurth, what accounts for the cost multiplier? A cyberarm
> > deck costing 2MY just to make it fit in an arm? I don't think it would
> > be worth it...
>
> I have no idea. It makes absolutely no sense to me to make a cranial deck
> cost *more* when installed in an arm. If you are willing to accept a
> non-game-world explanation, I'll keep it at "game balance"... :)
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

[snip, sorry Gurth, but they just take up too much space..]


One reason I can think of is that you can easily replace/displace stuff in an
arm, but its a bit more difficult making room for a deck in your head, hence it
theoretically requires much greater micronization.

"Which parts of your brain did you want to keep again?"

-Zim
Message no. 15
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:51:57 -0800
[snip every thing else because it doesn't apply]

> Just a thought, why not leave the deck out side in the car and have some sort
> of transmitter (external disguised as something else) that you can plug into
> your datajack, transmits to your deck which transmits to the device you are
> hacking, Case did something similar in Neuromancer (that book we all worship
> :) ) I can't remeber which bit but it was in the tug and he jacked in through
> the navigational modem.....
> just a thought.. :)
>
> Tim (not the other one)

One nice complex and possibly implausible answer it what the local decker and I
were discussing.

Have a small spider-drone enter the air ducts from the roof, trailing
fiber-optic cable. It finds a usable jack-in site and plugs in. The signal is
then routed through the FO back to the roof where a micro-wave transmitter is
placed. The signal is beamed (Line of sight) to either another arial drone (to
beam it somewhere else) or directly to a reciever mounted on the rigger's van,
where the decker sits. :)

You might have a slight responce penalty (after all, unless I'm wrong,
microwaves don't travel at the speed of light) but other wise no prob.

Now getting the drone into the ducts is another thing, but hey I'm not the
details man!

-Tim (the other one..)
Message no. 16
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:20:01 -0600
On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Timothy P Cooper wrote:

> [snip every thing else because it doesn't apply]
>
> > Just a thought, why not leave the deck out side in the car and have some sort
> > of transmitter (external disguised as something else) that you can plug into
> > your datajack, transmits to your deck which transmits to the device you are
> > hacking, Case did something similar in Neuromancer (that book we all worship
> > :) ) I can't remeber which bit but it was in the tug and he jacked in through
> > the navigational modem.....
> > just a thought.. :)
> >
> > Tim (not the other one)
>
> One nice complex and possibly implausible answer it what the local decker and I
> were discussing.
>
> Have a small spider-drone enter the air ducts from the roof, trailing
> fiber-optic cable. It finds a usable jack-in site and plugs in. The signal is
> then routed through the FO back to the roof where a micro-wave transmitter is
> placed. The signal is beamed (Line of sight) to either another arial drone (to
> beam it somewhere else) or directly to a reciever mounted on the rigger's van,
> where the decker sits. :)
>
> You might have a slight responce penalty (after all, unless I'm wrong,
> microwaves don't travel at the speed of light) but other wise no prob.

Uhhh...microwaves _are_ light. or, at least, the same electromagnetic
radiation that visible light is made out of. It's all composed of
photons, which all travel the same speed. Microwaves are just fluctuating
at a greater frequency.

-Q


>
> Now getting the drone into the ducts is another thing, but hey I'm not the
> details man!
>
> -Tim (the other one..)
>

---------------------------------------
Should "anal-retentive" be hyphenated?

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 17
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:22:46 -0800
Q wrote:

> Uhhh...microwaves _are_ light. or, at least, the same electromagnetic
> radiation that visible light is made out of. It's all composed of
> photons, which all travel the same speed. Microwaves are just fluctuating
> at a greater frequency.
>
> -Q

Damn! I'm not perfect anymore! :)
Guess I *WAS* asleep that day in physics! OK, just apply a penalty due to relay
time or something else entirely..:)

> >
> > Now getting the drone into the ducts is another thing, but hey I'm not the
> > details man!
> >
> > -Tim (the other one..)
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Should "anal-retentive" be hyphenated?

If you're asking, I think you're close enough to the problem to be able to give
an authoritative answer..;)

-Tim
Message no. 18
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Cyberarm cyberdecks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:26:09 -0500
> [snip every thing else because it doesn't apply]
>
>
> You might have a slight responce penalty (after all, unless I'm wrong,
> microwaves don't travel at the speed of light) but other wise no prob.

Nitpicking, but microwave are a form of electromagnetic radiation, just as
are gamma rays, x-rays, radio waves, and visable light.

Further Reading

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Thwap!