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Message no. 1
From: Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:57:58 +0200
The SIN thread brought me to this:

How do you identify someone with tow cybereyes through a retinal scan?
And how someone with two cyberarms through a fingerprint scan?

There must be _some_ way, especially with the cyber eyes (arms are probably
a bit less common).

VrGr David

"Shapes of angels the night casts lie dead but dreaming in my past and
they're here, they want to meet you, they want to play with you, so take
the dream."
(Fields of the Nephilim - "Sumerland (what dreams may come)")
Message no. 2
From: Lloyd Vance ljvance@*******.edu
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:22:04
At 05:57 PM 8/3/99 +0200, you wrote:
>The SIN thread brought me to this:
>
>How do you identify someone with tow cybereyes through a retinal scan?
>And how someone with two cyberarms through a fingerprint scan?
>
>There must be _some_ way, especially with the cyber eyes (arms are probably
>a bit less common).
>VrGr David

A retinal scan would pick up the serial number on the cyber eye, and the
cyber limb would also have a detectable identifier. IMO.

-The Hamm
"If you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
Message no. 3
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:28:25 -0400
Dave said:
> There must be _some_ way, especially with the cyber eyes (arms
> are probably
> a bit less common).
>
> VrGr David

I think that's where DNA comes into play (you can fool voice scanners too).

Ebony sticks check DNA samples for activation

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 4
From: Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:45:48 +0200
>I think that's where DNA comes into play (you can fool voice scanners too).
>
>Ebony sticks check DNA samples for activation

OK, but that's for the high-rated verifiers and large transactions. But
what if someone wants to do a fingerprint or retina check, and _cannot_
perform a higher rated check? They won't go for the lower-rated check. What
about maglocks? Not all of them can check your DNA.

Another question: what exactly is the difference between a biometric
maglock and a normal one? Biometric sounds like it checks one of the things
above, but I thought that was the case with many normal ones too. Is it
somethings extra?

VrGr David

"Shapes of angels the night casts lie dead but dreaming in my past and
they're here, they want to meet you, they want to play with you, so take
the dream."
(Fields of the Nephilim - "Sumerland (what dreams may come)")
Message no. 5
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:43:47 +0200
David wrote:
> Another question: what exactly is the difference between a biometric
> maglock and a normal one? Biometric sounds like it checks one of the
things
> above, but I thought that was the case with many normal ones too. Is it
> somethings extra?

Aren't those harder to bypass, adding 2 to the TN for bypassing them?

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 6
From: Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:02:48 +0200
At 10:43 4-8-99 +0200, you wrote:
>David wrote:
>> Another question: what exactly is the difference between a biometric
>> maglock and a normal one? Biometric sounds like it checks one of the
>things
>> above, but I thought that was the case with many normal ones too. Is it
>> something extra?
>
>Aren't those harder to bypass, adding 2 to the TN for bypassing them?


Yes, but what does it mean? How do they work?

VrGr David

"Shapes of angels the night casts lie dead but dreaming in my past and
they're here, they want to meet you, they want to play with you, so take
the dream."
(Fields of the Nephilim - "Sumerland (what dreams may come)")
Message no. 7
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:11:38 +0200
On Tuesday, August 03, 1999 5:58 PM, Quindrael
[SMTP:d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl] wrote:
> The SIN thread brought me to this:
>
> How do you identify someone with tow cybereyes through a retinal scan?
> And how someone with two cyberarms through a fingerprint scan?
>
> There must be _some_ way, especially with the cyber eyes (arms are
> probably
> a bit less common).
>
> VrGr David
>
(iirc) it is possible to have a fake or duplicate retinal implanted. My
guess is that either a new unique retinal or your original retinal will
be implanted in the cybereyes, thus making identification possible.

My guess is that something similar should be possible with cyberarms.
Since it is possible to replace an amputated arm which would have some
sort of fingerprints, it should be possible to recreate them and
integrate them with cyberarms.

Just my thoughts.

--
Sven De Herdt :)

SRCG v0.2 SR1! SR2++ SR3++ h b++>+++ B>+ UB->++ IE+(-) RN+(-) dk++>+++
sa- ma++ sh++ ad+ ri+ mc- m+ gm+>++(+++) M-(+)
Message no. 8
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:34:39 +0200
On Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:46 AM, Quindrael
[SMTP:d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl] wrote:
> >I think that's where DNA comes into play (you can fool voice scanners
> >too).
> >
> >Ebony sticks check DNA samples for activation
>
> OK, but that's for the high-rated verifiers and large transactions.
But
> what if someone wants to do a fingerprint or retina check, and
_cannot_
> perform a higher rated check? They won't go for the lower-rated check.
> What
> about maglocks? Not all of them can check your DNA.
>
> Another question: what exactly is the difference between a biometric
> maglock and a normal one? Biometric sounds like it checks one of the
> things
> above, but I thought that was the case with many normal ones too. Is
it
> somethings extra?
>
> VrGr David
>
I didn't know exactly what is meant by 'biometric' in RL, so I looked it
up and found following: "Three conventional forms of identification are
in use today. The first is something you have, such as a card. The
second form is something you know, such as a password or PIN. The third
is something you are, such as a pattern of ridges on a fingertip; or
something you do, such as writing or speaking. This third form of
identification is known as 'biometrics'."
If I interpret this correctly it would mean that normal maglocks only
require a card and a password, biometric maglock might additionally
require fingertip, retinal,... scans/verification.
This made me puzzle though, since a fake passkey even has a chance to
open biometric locks, does this mean that fake fingertip, retinal or
other scans are included on the passkey?
--
Sven De Herdt :)

SRCG v0.2 SR1! SR2++ SR3++ h b++>+++ B>+ UB->++ IE+(-) RN+(-) dk++>+++
sa- ma++ sh++ ad+ ri+ mc- m+ gm+>++(+++) M-(+)
Message no. 9
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 21:45:47 +1000
>If I interpret this correctly it would mean that normal maglocks only
>require a card and a password, biometric maglock might additionally
>require fingertip, retinal,... scans/verification.
>This made me puzzle though, since a fake passkey even has a chance to
>open biometric locks, does this mean that fake fingertip, retinal or
>other scans are included on the passkey?

I would imagine that passkeys contain override codes, so they'd force the
maglock to say 'yep, I've received a valid biometric scan so I'm unlocking
now', even in the absence of actual (or valid) biometric data.

Good reason for why they're so expensive, too.

Lady Jestyr

Work like you don't need the money. | It might look like I'm doing
Love like you've never been hurt. | nothing, but at the cellular
Dance like nobody's watching. | level I'm really quite busy.

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *
Message no. 10
From: Bruce gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:26:21 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*********.html.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 04 August 1999 01:44
Subject: RE: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints


>
>>If I interpret this correctly it would mean that normal maglocks
only
>>require a card and a password, biometric maglock might additionally
>>require fingertip, retinal,... scans/verification.
>>This made me puzzle though, since a fake passkey even has a chance
to
>>open biometric locks, does this mean that fake fingertip, retinal or
>>other scans are included on the passkey?
>
>I would imagine that passkeys contain override codes, so they'd force
the
>maglock to say 'yep, I've received a valid biometric scan so I'm
unlocking
>now', even in the absence of actual (or valid) biometric data.
>
>Good reason for why they're so expensive, too.

It may also explain why passkeys leave locks in a "scrambled"
condition

- - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>

<hard@****>
Message no. 11
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:30:53 +0200
On Wednesday, August 04, 1999 2:26 PM, Bruce [SMTP:gyro@********.co.za]
wrote:
>
>
> It may also explain why passkeys leave locks in a "scrambled"
> condition
>
> - - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>
>
Do they? I always thought that if the test was successful that the lock
would open and no traces were left behind!?

--
Sven De Herdt :)
"It might look like I'm doing nothing, but at the cellular level I'm
really quite busy."

SRCG v0.2 SR1! SR2++ SR3++ h b++>+++ B>+ UB->++ IE+(-) RN+(-) dk++>+++
sa- ma++ sh++ ad+ ri+ mc- m+ gm+>++(+++) M-(+)
Message no. 12
From: Kelson kelson13@*******.com
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:11:20 -0700
On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:30:53 Sven De Herdt wrote:

<Snip of passkey stuff>

>Do they? I always thought that if the test was successful that the lock
>would open and no traces were left behind!?

Nope. They open the lock, but there is a risidual "disturbance" in the lock
that can be detected. Not sure of the specifics here, but you can check the description
of passkeys for more information. At least that is the way they were in SR2. SR3 may
have changed this.

>--
>Sven De Herdt :)

Justin


--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Message no. 13
From: Caxal Balam arkainer@*****.com
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:34 -0700 (PDT)
--- Sven De Herdt <Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be> wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 03, 1999 5:58 PM, Quindrael
> [SMTP:d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl]
> wrote:
> > The SIN thread brought me to this:
> >
> > How do you identify someone with tow cybereyes
> through a retinal scan?
> > And how someone with two cyberarms through a
> fingerprint scan?
> >
> > There must be _some_ way, especially with the
> cyber eyes (arms are
> > probably
> > a bit less common).
> >
> > VrGr David
> >
> (iirc) it is possible to have a fake or duplicate
> retinal implanted. My
> guess is that either a new unique retinal or your
> original retinal will
> be implanted in the cybereyes, thus making
> identification possible.
>
> My guess is that something similar should be
> possible with cyberarms.
> Since it is possible to replace an amputated arm
> which would have some
> sort of fingerprints, it should be possible to
> recreate them and
> integrate them with cyberarms.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> --
> Sven De Herdt :)

I agree with you exept in teh part of the arms, with my GM we use
the synthetice (sp?) skin, or just obvious cyberarms.

If it is fake skin, the pattern of your fingerprints will be just
there (if its legal) or another one just as client desires :)

So eventually if you must be checked for fingerprints they must chech
first if its a fake skin (conceability 8) just to check if their really
your finger prints. In case it didnt get along they would check the
serial number of the arm or something else...

Or at least thats what my GM says (lo siento Mundo)

Cheers
==------------------------------------------------------------
Caxal Balam
The Roar of the Jaguar
"That's the things were and that's the things are"
_____________________________________________________________
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Message no. 14
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:45:01 +700
>>I think that's where DNA comes into play (you can fool voice scanners too).

>>
>>Ebony sticks check DNA samples for activation
>
>OK, but that's for the high-rated verifiers and large transactions. But
>what if someone wants to do a fingerprint or retina check, and _cannot_
>perform a higher rated check? They won't go for the lower-rated check. What

>about maglocks? Not all of them can check your DNA.
>

Why not?

I can see going down to hardwarestore.com in the next 60 years and ordering
a lock that takes a sample of my hair or whatever and keeps it for a DNA scan
when I put my palm up against it. Maybe even not needing the hair. Maybe I could
just open it up from the back and upload my DNA scan file. Or Maglock Inc. could
code it in for me and add people at my request.
Once reading DNA becomes a simple task, and it will be eventually; this sort
of lock would be cheap and trivial.
Message no. 15
From: Quindrael d.n.m.vannederveen@********.warande.uu.nl
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 15:29:04 +0200
>>about maglocks? Not all of them can check your DNA.
>
>Why not?
>
>Once reading DNA becomes a simple task, and it will be eventually; this sort
>of lock would be cheap and trivial.

Yes, but we're not talking about some of the possible futures, but about
Shadowrun (IMHO a not-so possible future, even some of the tech). And in
Shadowrun, only high-rated devices (credstick verifiers, maglocks) are able
to check your DNA. It might be different in your campaign, but I'm asking
about the FASA "partyline" here.

VrGr David

"Shapes of angels the night casts lie dead but dreaming in my past and
they're here, they want to meet you, they want to play with you, so take
the dream."
(Fields of the Nephilim - "Sumerland (what dreams may come)")
Message no. 16
From: Ahuizotl cuellare@***.telmex.net.mx
Subject: Cybereyes/Retina scanners; cyberarms/fingerprints
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:19:16 -0500
> I agree with you exept in teh part of the arms, with my GM we use
> the synthetice (sp?) skin, or just obvious cyberarms.

True ok..

>
> If it is fake skin, the pattern of your fingerprints will be just
> there (if its legal) or another one just as client desires :)

Depends were you "find" your arms

> So eventually if you must be checked for fingerprints they must chech
> first if its a fake skin (conceability 8) just to check if their really
> your finger prints. In case it didnt get along they would check the
> serial number of the arm or something else...

When i said this???? And the conceability is 6 and only at range, is you
touch it ya have a good chance to know is fake. And if you get arrested
thye are going to know is fake. No Finger prints and they take your ADN
(in my game at least) if you are SIN less. If you are arrested is police
procedure to check you serial and if you SIN havenīt register oho oho
you are in a problem. The kind of problem depends in what you have in
your arm :-)


> Or at least thats what my GM says (lo siento Mundo)

I dont remember said that.

>
> Cheers
Ahuizotl

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