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Message no. 1
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:14:23 +1000
Hey, If a character has 4 cyberlimbs (ie 2 arms and 2 legs), and then gets
bone lacing, would the lacing a) cost as much b) require as much essense?
Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
articulation?

Damion
Message no. 2
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 01:48:40 -0400
On Fri, 17 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Hey, If a character has 4 cyberlimbs (ie 2 arms and 2 legs), and then gets
> bone lacing, would the lacing a) cost as much b) require as much essense?
> Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
> cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
> articulation?

If somebody has their book handy and could add up the essence
cost on this one, it'd probably answer Damion's question _real_ fast. In
other words, IMCUO (In My Currently Unsupported Opinion), this wouldn't
really be worth worrying about simply because the character would be
essentially out of the picture (pun intended.)

"We all agree that your theory is mad. /-----------------\
The problem which divides us is this: | Jai Tao |
is it sufficiently crazy to be right?" | jdfalk@****.com |
-Dr. Neils Bohr \-----------------/
Message no. 3
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:54:17 -0700
Damion asks:

>Hey, If a character has 4 cyberlimbs (ie 2 arms and 2 legs), and then gets
>bone lacing, would the lacing a) cost as much b) require as much essense?
>Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
>cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
>articulation?

The rules do not go into details such as this. Thus if your going by the book,
the answers are yes, yes, and yes.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 4
From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 00:52:26 -0700
On Thu, 16 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> >Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
> >cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
> >articulation?
>
> The rules do not go into details such as this. Thus if your going by the book,
> the answers are yes, yes, and yes.

Question. Isn't enhanced articulation for the fingers and forearms?
Maybe even the upper arms? I don't recall enhanced articulation being
beneficial for the torso (increased hoola-hoop speed?). So, my answer
would be no for the third one. If you get enhanced articulation for your
arms, and then lose them and get cyberarms, not bonuses. You would need
cybered articulation. Remember, enhanced articulation is bioware.
Cyberarms are cyberware. You can't really mix the two together.

But then again, I'm not so sure on that. Anythings possible with the
right GM.

Rob
Message no. 5
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 08:36:02 -0400
On Fri, 17 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> Hey, If a character has 4 cyberlimbs (ie 2 arms and 2 legs),

Ya know that could just as easily be 4 arms...They have cyberware for
that now...

and then gets
> bone lacing, would the lacing a) cost as much

You might reduce the cost by..Oh..Say 15%-20%..Unless we are talking
about 4 arms..in which case it should probably be more
like..5%-15%..These are guesses are the percentage of body mass that
would be covered..

b) require as much essense?

You could reduce this cost the same as that precentage would have already
been paid and would not recieve the benifit..Another benifit that would
not be acquired would be the hand damage..It would be whatever it is for
a cyberlimb..

> Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
> cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
> articulation?
>
No..The joints that would have recieved this benifit have been replaced..
--------------------GRANITE
Message no. 6
From: Bryan Prince <WALAB@******.HH.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 07:59:41 -0600
Damion asks about cyberlimbs....
I use the following rule: Your trunk (torso and head)represent 60% of
your total body. Each limb is another 10%, per limb. For any costs related
to an entire bodies worth of cyber (ie bone lacing) then multiply cost adn
essence loss by the appropiate multiple for your natural body, then add 10-
15% (of the adjusted cost) for interfaces and such to your cyberbody. As
to whether or not the enhanced articulation will work, I'd say no. You would
have to have the cyberlimbs first, then the augmentation, but that is up
to your GM and how he interprets the installation of cyberlimbs. THat is to
say at which point does the bone get replaced with metal: for the arms is it
at the rotator cuff/joint area of the shoulderblades and clavicle??
Later
Brayn
Bryan Prince
Message no. 7
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:18:27 +1000
Jai writes:

> > Hey, If a character has 4 cyberlimbs (ie 2 arms and 2 legs), and then gets
> > bone lacing, would the lacing a) cost as much b) require as much essense?
> > Also, if a character had enhanced articulation and then went out and got 4
> > cyberlimbs put on, would they still receive the bonuses for the enhanced
> > articulation?
>
> If somebody has their book handy and could add up the essence
> cost on this one, it'd probably answer Damion's question _real_ fast. In
> other words, IMCUO (In My Currently Unsupported Opinion), this wouldn't
> really be worth worrying about simply because the character would be
> essentially out of the picture (pun intended.)

Not if one of the limbs was beta class, or two were alpha class. I was
reasoning from a essense cost reduction too, so that bone lacing no longer
costs 2.25 essense for titanium, as the arms and legs are no longer laced. A
cost reduction might also occur.

Damion
Message no. 8
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:28:19 -0700
I'd sure like Enhanced Articulation for my hips and shoulders, and
it's problematic whether a cyberlimb would include that.

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 9
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 01:57:37 -0700
My answer still stands. The rules fail to address such things as the effects
of cyberlimbs on the essence cost or effectiveness of bioware. By the book
you can have 4 cyberlimbs and enhanced articulation. By the book, if a
character increases his strength through any means, his cyberlimbs get stronger.

I'm not saying this makes sense, I'm just telling you the rules.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 10
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 12:44:30 -0400
On Sat, 18 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> My answer still stands. The rules fail to address such things as the effects
> of cyberlimbs on the essence cost or effectiveness of bioware. By the book
> you can have 4 cyberlimbs and enhanced articulation. By the book, if a
> character increases his strength through any means, his cyberlimbs get stronger.
>
> I'm not saying this makes sense, I'm just telling you the rules.
>
Now Nightstalker..How long have you been into SR??? A while I would
imagine..And if you haven't noticed by now that FA$A screws up rules you
are less observant than I thought..Go back and look at both the picture
above the discription of the proceedure and the discription..And tell me
again that both should be allowed..The discription CLEARLY shows the
intent of being preformed on NATURAL flesh NOT a Cyberlimb Now a cloned
limb that would be different..ANY half GM with half a brain would be able
to spot the incompatability a mile off..
---------------GRANITE
Message no. 11
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 22:27:25 -0700
GRANITE, your not paying close attention to what I am writing. I agree that
a character with four cyberlimbs should not be allowed to have Enhanced
Articlulation. However the rules say nothing on this subject.

And related to that, how many cyberlimbs must a character have before they
cannot use Enhanced Articulation. Is one enough? Or maybe two? Does it
depend on whether they are arms or legs?

As you can see, this is not something easily ruled on and FASA feels that it
has more important things to do.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 12
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 09:18:18 -0400
On Sun, 19 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> GRANITE, your not paying close attention to what I am writing. I agree that
> a character with four cyberlimbs should not be allowed to have Enhanced
> Articlulation. However the rules say nothing on this subject.
>
We are dealing with FA$A here..Just because they didn't mention it
doesn't mean that it is allowed..I will simply add this one to the
growing list of questions for the DLoH at GenCon..

> And related to that, how many cyberlimbs must a character have before they
> cannot use Enhanced Articulation. Is one enough? Or maybe two? Does it
> depend on whether they are arms or legs?

I would reduce the benifits for Enhance Articuation by 25% for each
cyberlimb..Not including extra arms beyond the natural 2 - unless of
course you had some sort of mutant with a plethora of arms in which case
there are going to be problems too numerous to go into..
>
> As you can see, this is not something easily ruled on and FASA feels that it
> has more important things to do.
>
I dissagree..Naturally..Well they won't at GenCon..
--------------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 13
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 09:17:52 -0400
On Sun, 19 Jun 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:

> GRANITE, your not paying close attention to what I am writing. I agree that
> a character with four cyberlimbs should not be allowed to have Enhanced
> Articlulation. However the rules say nothing on this subject.
>
> And related to that, how many cyberlimbs must a character have before they
> cannot use Enhanced Articulation. Is one enough? Or maybe two? Does it
> depend on whether they are arms or legs?
>
> As you can see, this is not something easily ruled on and FASA feels that it
> has more important things to do.
>
> *******************************************************************************
> * See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One."
*
> * Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
> * The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
> *******************************************************************************
>
Here is another point, (if you really wanna munchkin). The limbs are
attached at a joint. Meaning the arm has to connect at the sholder or
elbow, the leg at the hip or knee. Those joints could recieve enhanced
articulation. However, as a GM i would discourage it.

Nigel
Message no. 14
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 12:16:34 +1000
GRANITE writes:

> I would reduce the benifits for Enhance Articuation by 25% for each
> cyberlimb.

Enhanced articulation only gives bonuses of +1. Its a bit hard to reduce a 1
by 25% in SR.

Damion
Message no. 15
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 12:23:38 -0700
Lemme Inta this'un,

OK, we are wondering whether cyberlimba can have Enhanced Atriculation.
OK, you are gonna get a cyber-arm. You tell the stitcher that you have
E'd-Ref. So he uses the better joints in the arm, result, same action as
the rest of your body.

What does E'd-Art cover? Every bone in your body. They don't take you
apart to do this process chummers. They drop a whole lot of nanites in
there with orders to do the job on the joints. Nanite don't care which
joint it get to, it does it's job. Hey, presto! No more back pain (like
I got, but mine's from stacking a formula 2 at Nurburgring in 68) from
arthritis and such.

Oh, yeah, t'other question was Increased meat strength and auto-increase
of metal STR. Metal STR so far above meat, from start, that as meat gets
stronger, the metal can relax some of the built in limiters and use more
mechanical advantage. So it looks stronger, but it isn't. Just using
more of what the safeties cut out for meat's safety.

Ivy (With some help from "Rocks, Biotech 5)
Message no. 16
From: Jason Larke <jlarke@**.ITD.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 22:50:28 -0400
------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In message <199406210240.WAA10555@**.itd.umich.edu>you write:
>
>What does E'd-Art cover? Every bone in your body. They don't take you
>apart to do this process chummers. They drop a whole lot of nanites in
>there with orders to do the job on the joints. Nanite don't care which
>joint it get to, it does it's job. Hey, presto! No more back pain (like
>I got, but mine's from stacking a formula 2 at Nurburgring in 68) from
>arthritis and such.


------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
Content-Type: text/x-pgp; charset="us-ascii"

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I don't agree on this one. Human-meat joints and metal-on-metal
joins are likely to be put together differenty, IMHO. I'm
nigh-certain they use different lubricants. If there was a way to
enhance cyberarm articulation, I'd expect the cost to be
different- maybe more, maybe less, but not coincidentally the
same.

There might not be such a thing, too. Remember that they design
these things from scratch, so they can optmize the construction
all they want. If you could easily enhance the articulation, why
not save time and win market share by building that into the
design? From which line of reasoning it follows that enhances
cyber-articulation probably involves simply rebuilding the joint
with better grades of lubricant, closer tolerances, etc.

Ivy's theory also doesn't explain how to handle a case where the
limb is added after the enhancement.

Personally, I'd just keep track of which limbs were cybered. If a
skill uses the enhanced limbs, you get the bonus. If not, you
don't. Ie, a character with EA and two cyberlegs might get
bonuses to shoot a gun or play guitar, but probably not for Thai
Kick Boxing.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Jason Larke- jlarke@*****.edu- Computer geek, philosophy major, bassist|
| "Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, from Army of Darkness |
| I don't speak for anyone except myself, so drop it. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0--
Message no. 17
From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 00:28:08 -0700
Why worry about limbs? Don't even get 'em. I just put all of my
cyberware in my head. Makes me look funny, but I don't worry about no
Enhanced Articulation dispute.

Rob

==========================================
= Control: It's as easy as decking in... =
= rjmoulton <szicepik@****.ucdavis.edu> =
Message no. 18
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 09:09:16 -0400
On Tue, 21 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> GRANITE writes:
>
> > I would reduce the benifits for Enhance Articuation by 25% for each
> > cyberlimb.
>
> Enhanced articulation only gives bonuses of +1. Its a bit hard to reduce a 1
> by 25% in SR.
>
> Damion
>
Then subtract 25% from the role of the extra die for EA..Assuming that
you wish to make an adjustment at all..
------------------GRANITE
Message no. 19
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 07:07:33 -0700
Thank you Damion,

On Tue, 21 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> GRANITE writes:
>
> > I would reduce the benifits for Enhance Articuation by 25% for each
> > cyberlimb.
>
> Enhanced articulation only gives bonuses of +1. Its a bit hard to reduce a 1
> by 25% in SR.

I was kinda wondering about that. Sure wish more people read the rules
before they come up with their "Let's frag the Character" brainstorms.

Ivy
Message no. 20
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 07:23:47 -0700
On Mon, 20 Jun 1994, Jason Larke wrote:

> >What does E'd-Art cover? Every bone in your body. They don't take you
>
> I don't agree on this one. Human-meat joints and metal-on-metal
> joins are likely to be put together differenty, IMHO. I'm

Metal to lubricant to metal joints are already more flexible than
anything in the humans body. Tech will just get better in the future,
never worse.

>
> There might not be such a thing, too. Remember that they design
> these things from scratch, so they can optmize the construction
> all they want. If you could easily enhance the articulation, why
> not save time and win market share by building that into the

The only reason they wouldn't build the best is cost. And why complicate
things. The metal is going to be smoother than meat from the get-go.

> Ivy's theory also doesn't explain how to handle a case where the
> limb is added after the enhancement.

Actually, my theory was written to cover getting the metal after the meat
work was already done. That's the order it usually seems to happen in.

> Personally, I'd just keep track of which limbs were cybered. If a
> skill uses the enhanced limbs, you get the bonus. If not, you
> don't. Ie, a character with EA and two cyberlegs might get
> bonuses to shoot a gun or play guitar, but probably not for Thai
> Kick Boxing.

1) Why complicate things. I gave sufficient reasons to give the bonuses
to everything.

2) SRII is supposed to be kinda cinematic. Though very realistic too.
Everything is already balanced so adding that sort of complication gets
kinda out of line, GM-wise.

Ivy
Message no. 21
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:57:30 +0100
In reply to Jason Carter, Nightstalker .....

> My answer still stands. The rules fail to address such things as the effects
> of cyberlimbs on the essence cost or effectiveness of bioware. By the book
> you can have 4 cyberlimbs and enhanced articulation. By the book, if a
> character increases his strength through any means, his cyberlimbs get
stronger.
>
> I'm not saying this makes sense, I'm just telling you the rules.

My explanation for this in a recent campaign where a troll sammie had cyber
arms but the traditional high strength of trolls was to explain that the new
arms had replaced the bones and tendons etc and provided a synthetic skin, I
ruled though that the natural muscle was still connected hence the troll got
to keep his natural strength.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 22
From: U-Gene <R3STG@***.CC.UAKRON.EDU>
Subject: Cyberlimbs
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:42:44 EDT
Ok, I got a question.

I recently purchased Cybertechnology (after waiting many moons) and I was
reading the rules for Cyberlimbs. It said that ALL cyberlimbs had a base
strength of 3 (exept for trolls=8). Now in the SRII book under cyberlimbs
it says that cyberlimbs have incredible strength, you just couldn't use it
because the arm would just rip out of a it's flesh moorings. BUT it said it
starts at the CHARACTERS base strength. I tend to agree with this since I
would think the strength of the flesh mooring would depend on the strengh of
the person. I would like to know what rule people use.

And if you agree with SRII, what if any bioware STR increases do you let aply
to the cyberarm. I tend not to let any, but I was considering it.
(expecially since Inc Str. for cyberarms is so dam expensive anyway)

U-Gene << is stricken with a look of horror at thinking of whacking of >>
<< his real arm for a cyberarm. Aghhhhhhhhh >>
Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 00:09:23 +0100
U-Gene said on 12 Oct 95...

> I recently purchased Cybertechnology (after waiting many moons) and I was
> reading the rules for Cyberlimbs. It said that ALL cyberlimbs had a base
> strength of 3 (exept for trolls=8). Now in the SRII book under cyberlimbs
> it says that cyberlimbs have incredible strength, you just couldn't use it
> because the arm would just rip out of a it's flesh moorings. BUT it said it
> starts at the CHARACTERS base strength. I tend to agree with this since I
> would think the strength of the flesh mooring would depend on the strengh of
> the person. I would like to know what rule people use.

I would use the rule that the arm's strength is the base strength of race
it was built for -- an elf-model cyberarm has a Strength of 3, while a
troll-model has a Strength of 7. Adjust up or down depending on the amount
of nuyen paid :)

> And if you agree with SRII, what if any bioware STR increases do you let aply
> to the cyberarm. I tend not to let any, but I was considering it.
> (expecially since Inc Str. for cyberarms is so dam expensive anyway)

Bioware strength enhancements reinforce existing muscle tissue; if there
are no muscles they can't be strengthened. What does puzzle me is the
ridiculous cost of cyberlimb-Strength enhancements. All it takes is a few
stonger joints and actuators, isn't it?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We are one / We are free / We are headed for obscurity
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 24
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:55:01 +0930
Gurth wrote:
> are no muscles they can't be strengthened. What does puzzle me is the
> ridiculous cost of cyberlimb-Strength enhancements. All it takes is a few
> stonger joints and actuators, isn't it?

The cost comes into reinforcing the connection between the flesh and the
cyber so it can take the extra strain... Otherwise all the extra strength
does is rip your arm out of its socket, literally.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 25
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:38:44 +0100
}Ok, I got a question.
}
}I recently purchased Cybertechnology (after waiting many moons) and I was
}reading the rules for Cyberlimbs. It said that ALL cyberlimbs had a base
}strength of 3 (exept for trolls=8). Now in the SRII book under cyberlimbs
}it says that cyberlimbs have incredible strength, you just couldn't use it
}because the arm would just rip out of a it's flesh moorings. BUT it said it
}starts at the CHARACTERS base strength. I tend to agree with this since I
}would think the strength of the flesh mooring would depend on the strengh of
}the person. I would like to know what rule people use.
}
}And if you agree with SRII, what if any bioware STR increases do you
let aply }
}to the cyberarm. I tend not to let any, but I was considering it.
}(expecially since Inc Str. for cyberarms is so dam expensive anyway)

Okay, our gaming group had a debate about this a while ago and
this is the rules we came up with. There are two types of cyberlimb
on the market.

The first is the cheap 50,000 =Y= version, this has
strenght 3 and does not have the ability to have cyberware
incorperated into it. The reason for this is that all the 'available'
space is taken up by the servos and hydralics. It is also audiably
obvious to individuals with amplified hearing.

The cyberlimb itself, the 100 K =Y= version, is more advanced. The
power of the limb comes from cultured muscle tissue, usually this has
been cloned from the individual recieving the arm. This has the
result that the arm has the same strenght as the individual. If the
individual increases his strenght, he can also add the increase to
the arm. Additional strenght comes from the placement of mirco
servos and hydralics along with more advanced methods of cellular
regeneration and neural amplifiers.

The disadvantages of the expensive version is that if the hand is
blown off, it is possible for the individual to bleed to death. With
the cheap version this does not occur.

I hope that helps. I can't remember all the rules we designed though
for the limb.

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 26
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:26:43 GMT
i am not sure what increases can add to a cyberarm but i don't let
any add up muscle augmentation only works with natural tissue by
increasing the amount of muscle sheathing.

muscle replacement may but i am a bit iffy about this as why would
you replace your arm unless you lost it in an accident.

here a question for you then can muscle aug and muscle replacement
work in conjunction with each other as a troll with 17 strength is
not an idea i wish to think about
Message no. 27
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:32:41 GMT
HALOWEEN JACK writes
>
> here a question for you then can muscle aug and muscle replacement
> work in conjunction with each other as a troll with 17 strength is
> not an idea i wish to think about
>

I think not, however there are ways of getting trolls to even more
insane strength scores than that. It is if you feel munchkin inclined
possible to get a troll capable of killing a great Dragon in H-H
combat and yes thats allowing for its attack, armour and huge body
score, though you may need to really push the limits to do it in
practice (and hope the dragons not loading a karma pool he he :) ).

Mark
Message no. 28
From: Cugel <cugel@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:26:08 +01.0
On 13 Oct 95 at 0:09, Gurth wrote:
> What does puzzle me
> is the ridiculous cost of cyberlimb-Strength enhancements. All it
> takes is a few stonger joints and actuators, isn't it?

The price is rediculous and one of the reasons why I never had anyone
with a cyberarm. A clonal replacement was much more cost efficient,
plus you keep your muscle enhanchements (the only one so far who lost
limbs is my sammie).
Probably they can give you a set of joints from the start that can
work under strenght 20, and then just change the motors everytime you
want a higher strenght. Jeez they don't even have to operate you.
I would say a reasonable price would be half that of muscle
enhancement (22.500 per level).

Just my thoughts,

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net / bdi05626@***.rhij.nl)
The Kappamaki, a whaling research ship, was currently researching the
question: How many whales can you catch in one week?
-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)
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Message no. 29
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 12:30:00 EST
>here a question for you then can muscle aug and muscle replacement
>work in conjunction with each other as a troll with 17 strength is
>not an idea i wish to think about
Unfortunately I could not find any rule that says you can't in either
shadowtech or cybertechnology. So I would assume it is possible.
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 30
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:36:55 -0500
>
> > And if you agree with SRII, what if any bioware STR increases do you let aply
> > to the cyberarm. I tend not to let any, but I was considering it.
> > (expecially since Inc Str. for cyberarms is so dam expensive anyway)
>
> Bioware strength enhancements reinforce existing muscle tissue; if there
> are no muscles they can't be strengthened. What does puzzle me is the
> ridiculous cost of cyberlimb-Strength enhancements. All it takes is a few
> stonger joints and actuators, isn't it?

The rules in cybertechnolgy were VERY optional and, to me, half backed.
I believe Cyberarms are so expensive because they are all custom, and rare,
and not produced by some compute-nanoguided surgical process.
Since the arm has the strength of the caracter, and Muscle augmentation
increases strength, I would rule that the cyberlimb could be built to that
stength for no additional cost. Cybertechnology says differently, but I think
it is stated that muscle enhancements include some skeletal rienforcement to
handle the stress (bones naturally grow heavier under greater strain, but it
is possible to crack them through over exertion).
seb
Message no. 31
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:44:56 -0500
>
> Ok, I got a question.
>
> I recently purchased Cybertechnology (after waiting many moons) and I was
> reading the rules for Cyberlimbs. It said that ALL cyberlimbs had a base
> strength of 3 (exept for trolls=8).

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb. Just discourages anyone from evr getting a cyberlimb- Too
damn expensive, not as good as most PC's natural ones. Only good for mounting
gadgets in.

Now in the SRII book under cyberlimbs
> it says that cyberlimbs have incredible strength, you just couldn't use it
> because the arm would just rip out of a it's flesh moorings. BUT it said it
> starts at the CHARACTERS base strength. I tend to agree with this since I
> would think the strength of the flesh mooring would depend on the strengh of
> the person. I would like to know what rule people use.
>
The cybertech stuff is WAY to complex and discouraging. We stick wit SRII

> And if you agree with SRII, what if any bioware STR increases do you let aply
> to the cyberarm. I tend not to let any, but I was considering it.
> (expecially since Inc Str. for cyberarms is so dam expensive anyway)
>
> U-Gene << is stricken with a look of horror at thinking of whacking of >>
> << his real arm for a cyberarm. Aghhhhhhhhh >>
>
Well, I posted that I would try to get away with it, but if for some reason some
body wanted
to save the 20% per cyberlimb, we'd let them, cause we hate those
"stength averaging" rules in cybertech.

Seb
Message no. 32
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:38:04 +0930
Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
>
> >here a question for you then can muscle aug and muscle replacement
> >work in conjunction with each other as a troll with 17 strength is
> >not an idea i wish to think about
> Unfortunately I could not find any rule that says you can't in either
> shadowtech or cybertechnology. So I would assume it is possible.

No, they do not... Muscle Aug enhances and strengthens natural muscle
tissue. Muscle replacement removes those natural muscle tissues and
replaces it with something similar that isn't, and so can't be augmented.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 33
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 13:08:32 -0500
>
> Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
> >
> > >here a question for you then can muscle aug and muscle replacement
> > >work in conjunction with each other as a troll with 17 strength is
> > >not an idea i wish to think about
> > Unfortunately I could not find any rule that says you can't in either
> > shadowtech or cybertechnology. So I would assume it is possible.
>
> No, they do not... Muscle Aug enhances and strengthens natural muscle
> tissue. Muscle replacement removes those natural muscle tissues and
> replaces it with something similar that isn't, and so can't be augmented.
>
> --
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Sorry, but I think Cybertechnology contradicts you. I could get page and
line, but suffice to say, tin the section on strength augs and cyberlimbs, it
says something about using muscle augmentation and/or muscle replacement. So
Dowd thoght abut it and saw nothing to stop y'all from doing both. I
personally have no realistic idea how either system would work- denser grafts
and tendon strengthening, I suppose, but even Hatchetman says he cant't tell
the tecnical difference, even though they FEEL different.
SEB
Message no. 34
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:35:22 -0500
Something about Cyberlimbs in Cybertechnology (pgs, 30-37, 49-53) irks
me:
The way they handle modifications to your cyberlimbs.
The base statistics for a cyber limb are:
Strength: 3
Quickness: doesn't say but I'm assuming 3
Body: doesn't say but I'm assuming 3
from there you can get up to 3 pts of modification at no essence cost,
after which, they tack on essence costs... This means a Human (or anybody
else fer that matter) with Strength 1 could get a cyberlimb with strength
6 at no extra essence cost while an Orc or Dwarf with Strength 8 would
have to pay .8 Essence extra to get cyberlimb w/ the same strength as the
rest of their body... This is bad.

Possible Solution:
Base Costs
Cyberlimb: 50k
Cyber hand/foot: 22.5k
Cyber forearm/Lowerleg: 35k
Cyber torso: 60k
Cyberskull: 37.5k
Base stats are 0

Costs per point of Strength / Quickness / Body
CL=CyberLimb, CH/F= CyberHand/Foot, CF/L=Cyberforearm/Lowerleg,
CT=Cybertorso, CS=Cyberskull
1-3: 25k / 14k / 12k (CL), 11k / 6k / 5k (CH/F), 17k / 10k / 8k (CF/L)
29k / 17k / 14k (CT), 18k / 11k / 9k (CS)
4-6: 150k / 90k /75k (CL), 68k / 41k / 34k (CH/F), 105k / 63k / 53k
(CF/L)
180k / 108k / 90k (CT), 113k / 68k / 56k (CS)
7+: 175k / 110k /90k (CL), 79k / 50k / 41k (CH/F), 123k / 77k / 63k
(CF/L)
210k / 132k / 108k (CT), 131k / 83k / 68k (CS)
each Stat cannot exceed (current stat* + Body**) or (current stat* +
4***) whichever is lower.
a cyber body part doesn't cost extra essence until a cyberstat exceeds
the chars natural stat +1, then the cost is (Strength / Quickness / Body
doesn't cost essence):
.4 / .3 (CL), .15 / .1 (CH/F), .25 / .2 (CF/L), .3 / .23 (CT), .3 / .23
(CS)
A cybertorso still halves essence costs of stat mods (which is already
figured into calculations)
*Unaugmented stat except add full bonus from physad abilities if
possessed, and 1/2 any modifications from Bio/cyberware (round down)
**use natural body except add full bonus from physad abilities if
possessed and 1/2 body modifications from Bone Lacing (Round Down)
***add 1/2 body modifications from Bone Lacing (Round Down)
Armor per point (Soft / Hard):
Cyber limb: 10k/ 25k
Cyber hand/foot: 4.5k / 11.5k
Cyberforearm/lowerleg: 7k/ 17.5k
Cybertorso: 12k / 30k
Cyberskull: 7.5k / 19k
Max armor rating is 1/2 the body of the limb or the average body of the
person in question (this was arbitrailerly (sp?) chosen, so if doesn't
make sense, that's why.)

A natural looking Cyberlimb costs +10% after all of the above costs,
cannot have a stat which exceeds current stat + 1 and cannot have more
than 3 pts of soft armor and NO hardened armor.

On average, this should result in more expensive cyberlimbs.

Tell me what you think ... does this sound like a good system or will
restrict Cyberlimbs too much / too little?

D. Ghost (AKA Pixel / AKA Tantrum)
Always remember: Programs don't crash Windows. Windows crashes Windows.

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Message no. 35
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:02:25 -0300
Alfredo B Alves wrote:

>
> Tell me what you think ... does this sound like a good system or will
> restrict Cyberlimbs too much / too little?
>
> D. Ghost (AKA Pixel / AKA Tantrum)
> Always remember: Programs don't crash Windows. Windows crashes Windows.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


That's quite a complicated system you've put together, neh? I just
assume c-limbs
are "fine-tuned" to have the same stats of the user, and that's why they
cost 100K a piece.
Same goes for the hands and partial limbs. Cybertorsos and skulls
just don't replace the muscles,
so the stats aren't really changed. I would charge something like
20K-50K for the enhancements,
depending on the stat boosted.

Ubiratan P. Alberton
ubiratan@************.com.br

P.S: Wich country are you from?
Message no. 36
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:32:41 +0100
Alfredo B Alves said on 17:35/19 Apr 98...

> from there you can get up to 3 pts of modification at no essence cost,
> after which, they tack on essence costs... This means a Human (or anybody
> else fer that matter) with Strength 1 could get a cyberlimb with strength
> 6 at no extra essence cost while an Orc or Dwarf with Strength 8 would
> have to pay .8 Essence extra to get cyberlimb w/ the same strength as the
> rest of their body... This is bad.

My solution is to put the Strength of a cyberlimb at the average value for
the race -- a dwarf cyberlimb has a Strength of 5, while a troll limb is
at 7, for example.

> Possible Solution:
[snip]
> Tell me what you think ... does this sound like a good system or will
> restrict Cyberlimbs too much / too little?

I think it's too many numbers. Unless you're able to put them into a more
readable form, it's going to be difficult finding out how much to pay for
a limb and what it can do...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
going down thinking
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 37
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:29:27 -0500
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:32:41 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Alfredo B Alves said on 17:35/19 Apr 98...
>> from there you can get up to 3 pts of modification at no essence cost,
>> after which, they tack on essence costs... This means a Human (or
anybody
>> else fer that matter) with Strength 1 could get a cyberlimb with
strength
>> 6 at no extra essence cost while an Orc or Dwarf with Strength 8 would
>> have to pay .8 Essence extra to get cyberlimb w/ the same strength as
the
>> rest of their body... This is bad.

>My solution is to put the Strength of a cyberlimb at the average value
for
>the race -- a dwarf cyberlimb has a Strength of 5, while a troll limb is
>at 7, for example.

At the same price? What would keep humans from gwtting orc cyberlimbs?

>> Possible Solution:
>[snip]
>> Tell me what you think ... does this sound like a good system or will
>> restrict Cyberlimbs too much / too little?

>I think it's too many numbers. Unless you're able to put them into a
more
>readable form, it's going to be difficult finding out how much to pay
for
>a limb and what it can do...
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -

Numbers are friends.... heh heh, but seriously...
The post was kind of cryptic because I was worried formating would look
different would look okay for some people and totally screwy.
i.e. it'd have to be Tab delimited so the people with text readers could
read it and that would look screwy for someone using something that uses
or can use fonts like Eudora.
I have it set up in a table format which works fer me. But then again, I
can look at all that screwy stuff I wrote and figure out what I need. %)
If you've got a spreadsheet prog (I love those things), ya can let it
handle all the math.
The point of the system I posted was to set up cyberlimbs so that their
costs reflect their ratings they way other SR gear does (though other SR
Gear ussually only has one rating :) , like skillwires for example.
Also, I left off Cybertech's increased cost for multiple increased
systems (intentionally). If anyone thinks that was a mistake apply the
cost increase when more than one stat exceeds 1) the average race stat
(Inspired by Gurth above, thanks), or 2) the normal stat of the wearer,
GM's choice of which.

DGhost@****.com
(AKA Pixel, Tantrum)
"Very funny ... Scotty ... now... beam down .... my clothes!"

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Message no. 38
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:20:15 EDT
In a message dated 4/20/98 8:24:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!, dghost@****.COM
writes:

> Something about Cyberlimbs in Cybertechnology (pgs, 30-37, 49-53) irks
> me:
> The way they handle modifications to your cyberlimbs.
> The base statistics for a cyber limb are:
> Strength: 3
> Quickness: doesn't say but I'm assuming 3
> Body: doesn't say but I'm assuming 3

Actually, cyberlimbs do not have a body attribute, but, cyberlimbs in pairs
add an additional point to the character's Body attribute (skull and torso
also add one each also).

> from there you can get up to 3 pts of modification at no essence cost,
> after which, they tack on essence costs...

I can see how this bites for some of the other races, but it works for game
balance unfortunately.

Mike
Message no. 39
From: "RazorGirl ." <chumlikin@*******.COM>
Subject: Cyber Limbs
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:21:19 PDT
Hey, why do you take damage to your overall body when your cyber limb
gets hurt? If i got stabbed in the cyber leg by a dikote spur, could it
really cause me to die? If there were pain sensors that would simulate
pain and other senses in the leg, wouldn't that cause stun damage? Is
there simsense backlash (like Deckers)? What if i choose not to have
pain sensors? If i shoot a guy in the cyber arm (to disable his tactical
computer), make a called shot that succeeds famously (hey i am that
good), the guy dies the suffers the same as if i shot him in the meat.
Why? Don't give me none of that aura crap either. You can buy cyber
hands that are removable.(try doing that one with the meat version)
These don't cause the player damage. What is the story?

"You came in that thing? You're braver than i thought."
Star Wars was funny on so many levels.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 40
From: John Vots <jvots@**.KO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyber Limbs
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:53:47 -0400
>Hey, why do you take damage to your overall body when your cyber limb
>gets hurt? If i got stabbed in the cyber leg by a dikote spur, could >it
really cause me to die?



Well, damage is not location specific for SR (Thank God). That is why you
take damage even when damaged in a cyber limb. To compensate for this
Cyberlimbs give additional resistance to damage. As for your called
shot example. If it was a called shot on the Tac computer and you
succeded all you would have done in my game is disable the compy and
maybe sever the neural connections for the rest of the arm (depending
on misc. factors). You definitley would not have killed him from that
shot. However on the otherside if you had made the same shot against
a meat arm with the tac comp strapped on all you would have done is
fry the compy and maybe cause a liilte collateral damage to the meat,
but nothing anywhere near what the original shots damage was.



Jester
Message no. 41
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyber Limbs
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:36:36 +1000
> Hey, why do you take damage to your overall body when your cyber limb
> gets hurt? If i got stabbed in the cyber leg by a dikote spur, could it
> really cause me to die? If there were pain sensors that would simulate
> pain and other senses in the leg, wouldn't that cause stun damage? Is
> there simsense backlash (like Deckers)? What if i choose not to have
> pain sensors? If i shoot a guy in the cyber arm (to disable his tactical
> computer), make a called shot that succeeds famously (hey i am that
> good), the guy dies the suffers the same as if i shot him in the meat.
> Why? Don't give me none of that aura crap either. You can buy cyber
> hands that are removable.(try doing that one with the meat version)
> These don't cause the player damage. What is the story?

Cyberlimbs, I assume, have pain receptors as analogous to
flesh-and-blood receptors as possible, to allow the user to treat the
cyberarm just like a meat arm. The more discrepancies there are between
the behaviour of the cyberarm and a regular arm, the less effective the
possible use of it. I would assume that correct pain responses are a
vital part of the neural structure in the arm.

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
Message no. 42
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyber Limbs
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:33:22 -0400
At 03:21 PM 8/6/98 PDT, you wrote:
>Hey, why do you take damage to your overall body when your cyber limb
>gets hurt?

Mainly because the SR combat system doesn't have hit location charts.
Their entire combat system is an abstraction of real combat. Therefor,
when shot or stabbed, if it does damage one could presume that it hits meat
and not metal.

And you say you don't like the whole aura "crap" answer? Well, then answer
this. How then can a cyberzombie, a creature that is nearly all metal,
take damage? It's the same damage scale as an unaugmented human you know.
*Something* else is going on. If that's the aura or some other unknown
mechanism, I'm not sure.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 43
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyber Limbs
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:59:22 -0600
/ > Hey, why do you take damage to your overall body when your cyber limb
/ > gets hurt?

All IMHO.

I assume that it's caused by feedback from the ASSIST interface (that
allows your cyberlimbs to feel "real" (assuming there is an ASSIST
interface)) when the cyberlimb is damaged. That's also the excuse I
use for dodging the "cyberpsychosis" bullet. In CP2020 cyberpsychosis
exists, IMHO, because cyberware feels like cyberware. In SR cyberware
feels like the real thing thanks to ASSIST technology.

If a character wanted to decrease the ammount of damage he takes from
getting hit in a cyberlimb by turning/disabling the ASSIST, then I
would quickly bring the cyberpsychosis rules from CP2020 into play.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 44
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyber Limbs
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:15:00 -0400
Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;

>All IMHO.
>
>I assume that it's caused by feedback from the ASSIST interface (that
>allows your cyberlimbs to feel "real" (assuming there is an ASSIST
>interface)) when the cyberlimb is damaged. That's also the excuse I
>use for dodging the "cyberpsychosis" bullet. In CP2020 cyberpsychosis
>exists, IMHO, because cyberware feels like cyberware. In SR cyberware
>feels like the real thing thanks to ASSIST technology.
>
>If a character wanted to decrease the ammount of damage he takes from
>getting hit in a cyberlimb by turning/disabling the ASSIST, then I
>would quickly bring the cyberpsychosis rules from CP2020 into play.

Interesting. Turning off the ASSIST would be limited form of a Pain
Editor with a side effect similar to a Mild Allergy perhaps. I might try
something like that as a modification or a cyberware damage result.

-MC23, who has to wait 'til tuesday to get his SR3-
Message no. 45
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:51:08 +1000
I don't know about all of you guys, but I've always hated the way
cyberlimbs were treated in Shadowrun. In fact, the only place I've ever
used cyberlimbs was in my stories - never for a character I was going to
play.

My main gripe would have to be how cyberlimb strength (and body and
quickness, if you're using the Cybertechnology rules) is treated.

Now, forgive me if someone's covered this before, but I sure as hell
don't have the time to go looking for this in the archives. Anyway, this
is how I think cyberlimb attributes should be treated.

First of all, a standard, off-the-shelf cyberlimb should have a
strength, quickness and body equal to the average attributes for the
race it's designed for (or average plus one if you want to treat them in
the same fashion as SR3). So an elf cyberlimb should have a strength and
body of 3 and a quickness of 4. A human cyberlimb should be straight 3s
- and so on.

Now, these are only good for people with average attributes. Someone
with lower attributes and a synthetic cyberlimb will have its
concealability reduced by 1 per point their attributes are below that of
the limb. So a human with a strength, quickness and body of 1s will have
the concealability of their synthetic cyberlimb reduced by 6 (poor
Otakus...:) ). Why? Because the limb will look funny. It'll be bulkier,
more muscular and move faster than that persons other limbs and it'll
stand out as different.

On the other hand, someone with higher attributes suffers the same
penalties with an average cyberlimb, because the limb would be skinny,
weaker and slower than their other limbs.

Next, we get to my main gripe. Enhanced cyberlimb attributes. I've
always found it particularly irritating that someone with strength six
who goes out and buys a customised cyberarm (strength 3) has to buy
three points of enhanced strength, just for the arm to be as strong as
their natural arm. And to get a strength of 7, they have to start
burning essence. Why should they be penalised just because they're
stronger than everyone else?

The idea behind that is that the higher strength (and other attribute)
boosts require more physical anchoring work to be done to prevent the
cyberlimb from ripping off or otherwise injuring its owner. The way I
see it, though, someone with a natural strength of 6 (or 5 or 4) has
already had that anchoring work done - by nature. IMNSHO their muscles
and skeletal structure is strong enough to support the extra 'muscle' of
a more powerful cyberlimb.

So here's what I do. Any cyberlimb of alpha grade or better (or beta if
you want to make things tougher on your players) is considered
customised to the user. Hell, when you're paying twice (or three times
in SRII, or seven times for Beta) as much as someone else, you'd think
you could get a cyberlimb that'll suit you better. By customised I mean
that the limb has exactly the same attribute ratings as the character to
whom its attached. If you then want to boost the cyberlimbs attributes
above your own, you treat it as normal - listed nuyen and no essence
cost up to +3, listed nuyen and essence cost above that (or whatever it
says in the books).

Yes, this means you can get a strength 13 cyberarm for a troll (natural
strength 10, plus 3 extra strength points) - but if that troll ever
increases his strength to 15 (attribute maximum) he has to live with
that strength 13 cyberarm or get a NEW one. You can't upgrade it as you
get stronger (or tougher or faster).

Well, what do you think?

*Doc' attaches a troll cyberarm to his butt - just for fun.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 46
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:17:01 -0600
On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:51:08 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
<RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
>I don't know about all of you guys, but I've always hated the way
>cyberlimbs were treated in Shadowrun. In fact, the only place I've ever
>used cyberlimbs was in my stories - never for a character I was going to
>play.
>
>My main gripe would have to be how cyberlimb strength (and body and
>quickness, if you're using the Cybertechnology rules) is treated.
<SNIP>
>Next, we get to my main gripe. Enhanced cyberlimb attributes. I've
>always found it particularly irritating that someone with strength six
>who goes out and buys a customised cyberarm (strength 3) has to buy
>three points of enhanced strength, just for the arm to be as strong as
>their natural arm. And to get a strength of 7, they have to start
>burning essence. Why should they be penalised just because they're
>stronger than everyone else?
<SNIP>

Okay, here's a bit I posted a while back (in April) that hopefully
addresses your concerns. :) I believe a few things got changed in the
thread that ensued (You can check it out for yourself, if you want. The
thread is "Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads" and starts in logfile
ShadowRN.Log9804D .) but here is the original message (C&Ped from Wordpad
so my appologies if any funky characters show up):

-----Begin "Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads"-----
Okay. Here is an earlier post I made reformated using Gurth's
suggestions (thanks, oh great Guru) followed by some additional modifiers
and some gear (sorta). Enjoy :) (Make sure you've got your mailer set
to a fixed with font liked Fixedsys or the tables will look funny.)
-----Begin Original Message-----
Something about Cyberlimbs in Cybertechnology (pgs, 30-37, 49-53) irks
me.
<snip reasing behind original post>

Possible Solution:
Base Costs
Cyberpart Cost
Limb: 50k
Hand/Foot: 22.5k
Forearm/Lowerleg: 35k
Torso: 60k
Skull: 37.5k
Base stats are 0
Cost for Stats:
Cost per point of
Cyberpart Strength Quickness Body
Limb:
1-3 25k 14k 12k
4-6 150k 90k 75k
7+ 175k 110k 90k
Hand/Foot:
1-3 11k 6k 5k
4-6 68k 41k 34k
7+ 79k 50k 41k
Forearm/Lowerleg:
1-3 17k 10k 8k
4-6 105k 63k 53k
7+ 123k 77k 63k
Torso:
1-3 29k 17k 14k
4-6 180k 108k 90k
7+ 210k 132k 108k
Skull:
1-3 18k 11k 9k
4-6 113k 68k 56k
7+ 131k 83k 68k

Each Stat cannot exceed (current stat* + Body**) or (current stat* +4***)
whichever is lower. A cyber body part doesn't cost extra essence until a
cyberstat exceeds the chars natural stat +1, then the cost is as follows
(Body doesn't cost Essence):
Essence Cost For
Cyberpart Stregth Quickness
Limb: .4 .3
Hand/Foot: .15 .1
Forearm/Lowerleg: .25 .2
Torso: .3 .23
Skull: .3 .23
A cybertorso still halves essence costs of stat mods (which is already
figured into the calculations for modifications to a Cyber Torso)

*Unaugmented stat except add full bonus from physad abilities if
possessed, and 1/2 any modifications from Bio/cyberware (round down)
**use natural body except add full bonus from physad abilities if
possessed and 1/2 body modifications from Bone Lacing (Round Down)
***add 1/2 body modifications from Bone Lacing (Round Down)

Armor costs per point
Cyberpart Soft Hard
Limb: 10k 25k
Hand/Foot: 4.5k 11.5k
Forearm/Lowerleg: 7k 17.5k
Torso: 12k 30k
Skull: 7.5k 19k

Max armor rating is 1/2 the body of the limb or the average body of the
person in question (this was arbitrailerly (sp?) chosen, so if doesn't
make sense, that's why.) A natural looking (proportioned) Cyberlimb costs
+10% after all of the above costs, cannot have a stat which exceeds
current stat + 1 and cannot have more than 3 pts of soft armor and NO
hardened armor. On average, this should result in more expensive
cyberlimbs.

Tell me what you think ... does this sound like a good system or will it
restrict Cyberlimbs too much / too little?

-----End Original Message-----

Okay now for the (semi) new stuff:
I don't know if these costs make sense since I picked them kind of
randomly.

Cyberlimb coverings:
Cost*
Synthskin +20%
Plastic Skin +10%
Chrome +10%
Painted +varies
Matte Finish +5%
Glossy Finish +5%
Leather +15%
Rubber +15%
*For non-obvious cyberlimbs, Percentage increase is applied to Base cost
+ 1/2* Strength cost + Body cost + 2* Armor costs. For Obvious
cyberlimbs, Percentage increase is applied to all costs.

A cyberlimb with synthskin cannot have any pop-up/open-up/fold-out
components but can have small holes (ie for datajacks). A Cybergun (no
BF or FA) could still be mounted but would have to surgically
re-loaded...

Any pop-up/open-up/fold-out components built into a cyberlimb with
Plastic Skin or Chrome will be obvious.

Features:
EM Shielding
Cost: 15,000 per point
Effect: Gives ya protection from EM Pulses as well as some types of
cyberware scanners. Each point increases the T# of such devices by one.

Thermal Generators
Cost:
Cyberlimb: 30k
Hand/Foot: 14k
Forearm/Lowerleg: 21k
Torso: 36k
Skull: 23k
Effect: Maintains the cyberlimbs at normal body temperature. this
makes detecting cyberlimbs with thermal imaging harder but not impossible
(+4/+8 T#'s) since the temperature will fluctuate differently than the
rest of the body. Note that this is required for Cyberskulls and Torsos
if not for the rest of the body as well. (ie what happens if your
cyberpart (ie cyberskull) is at a drastically different temperature than
your internal organs (ie Brain) ?)

Built-in Holsters:
Some-one posted something about this so I thought I'd include it. :)
(wish I could give credit where credit's due )

Holster
Cost: 400
Effect: Not neccisarily a holster per se, but some kind of external (or
partial internal) mount for a gun. Use common sense when deciding what
can mounted where. (no rifle "holsters" mounted to your Cyberforearm
...)

Pop-out Holster
Cost: 1000
Effect: This is a pop-out (ala Robocop) version of the above. You
can't have anything bigger than a heavy pistol. Holster is opened by
some switch, button, or latch. A DNI controlled version is available as
per standard rules in Cybertechnology.

Cyberarm Gyromounts
Cost: See Cybertechnology or (points or recoil compensation)^2 * 30k
Effect: I don't understand why these cost extra essence so until
someone convinces me otherwise, these cost the standard 1 essence per
limb. Merry Christmas. *<:) Aside from this they work as normal.

If you have any ideas for more extras please append them. (in the same
format, if possible.)
-----End "Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads"-----
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Message no. 47
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:47:11 -0500
Once upon a time, D. Ghost wrote;

>Cyberarm Gyromounts
> Cost: See Cybertechnology or (points or recoil compensation)^2 * 30k
> Effect: I don't understand why these cost extra essence so until
>someone convinces me otherwise, these cost the standard 1 essence per
>limb. Merry Christmas. *<:) Aside from this they work as normal.

More anchoring/interface involved or in other words Gyromounts cause
further invasion into the torso than a regular cyberarm. I thought that
has been covered all ready.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 48
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:35:17 +1000
> <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
> >I don't know about all of you guys, but I've always hated the way
> >cyberlimbs were treated in Shadowrun. In fact, the only place I've
> ever
> >used cyberlimbs was in my stories - never for a character I was going
> to
> >play.
> >
> >My main gripe would have to be how cyberlimb strength (and body and
> >quickness, if you're using the Cybertechnology rules) is treated.
> <SNIP>
> >Next, we get to my main gripe. Enhanced cyberlimb attributes. I've
> >always found it particularly irritating that someone with strength
> six
> >who goes out and buys a customised cyberarm (strength 3) has to buy
> >three points of enhanced strength, just for the arm to be as strong
> as
> >their natural arm. And to get a strength of 7, they have to start
> >burning essence. Why should they be penalised just because they're
> >stronger than everyone else?
> <SNIP>
>
> Okay, here's a bit I posted a while back (in April) that hopefully
> addresses your concerns. :) I believe a few things got changed in the
> thread that ensued (You can check it out for yourself, if you want.
> The
> thread is "Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads" and starts in logfile
> ShadowRN.Log9804D .) but here is the original message (C&Ped from
> Wordpad
> so my appologies if any funky characters show up):
<Big SNIP(TM)>

Interesting system, D. A bit complicated for my liking, but then I
suppose the same could be said about my ideas. Glad to see I'm not the
only one peeved about the cyberlimb rules.

Btw, did you ever address the issue of concealability, or did you just
say 'synthskin is not obvious, anything else is'.

*Doc' wonders if he can get loose, 'old-person' synthskin for his
cyberarm gyromount.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 49
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:10:35 -0600
On Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:47:11 -0500 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, D. Ghost wrote;

>>Cyberarm Gyromounts
>> Cost: See Cybertechnology or (points or recoil compensation)^2 * 30k
>> Effect: I don't understand why these cost extra essence so until
>>someone convinces me otherwise, these cost the standard 1 essence per
>>limb. Merry Christmas. *<:) Aside from this they work as normal.

>More anchoring/interface involved or in other words Gyromounts cause
>further invasion into the torso than a regular cyberarm. I thought that
>has been covered all ready.

Why? I don't see why any reinforcement is needed. What is inherently
more invasive? As I understand gyromounts (or shou that be "IF I
understand gyromounts"?), the gyromount system could be entirely
contained in the arm because it doesn't use brute force to counter the
recoil but rather some kind of spinning mass...

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
re-cur-sion (ri-kur'-zhen) noun. 1. See recursion.

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Message no. 50
From: Hatchetman <hatchet@*********.BC.CA>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:25:02 -0800
> Why? I don't see why any reinforcement is needed. What is inherently
> more invasive? As I understand gyromounts (or shou that be "IF I
> understand gyromounts"?), the gyromount system could be entirely
> contained in the arm because it doesn't use brute force to counter the
> recoil but rather some kind of spinning mass...

I agree, the gyroarm is the same as a standard gyromount, but smaller. The
mount doesn't involve any cyber, so the arm shouldn't really either. It
just looks like hell. IMHO.
Message no. 51
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:53:30 -0600
On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:35:17 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
<RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
<SNIP>
>Interesting system, D. A bit complicated for my liking, but then I
>suppose the same could be said about my ideas. Glad to see I'm not the
>only one peeved about the cyberlimb rules.
>
>Btw, did you ever address the issue of concealability, or did you just
>say 'synthskin is not obvious, anything else is'.

Well, I didn't change synthskin from Cybertech so it still works the
same. :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
re-cur-sion (ri-kur'-zhen) noun. 1. See recursion.

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 52
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:09:47 +1000
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:35:17 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
> <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
> <SNIP>
> >Interesting system, D. A bit complicated for my liking, but then I
> >suppose the same could be said about my ideas. Glad to see I'm not
> the
> >only one peeved about the cyberlimb rules.
> >
> >Btw, did you ever address the issue of concealability, or did you
> just
> >say 'synthskin is not obvious, anything else is'.
>
> Well, I didn't change synthskin from Cybertech so it still works the
> same. :)
> D. Ghost
>
Yes - but what about concealability and higher attributes (esp. body and
strength). Is that covered by the appropriate sections Cybertechnology?
I can't recall right now.

*Oh, stuff it. Nothing to see here. Move along, people.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 53
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:29:16 -0600
On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:09:47 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
<RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
>> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:35:17 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
>> <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
<SNIP>
>> >Btw, did you ever address the issue of concealability, or did you>
just
>> >say 'synthskin is not obvious, anything else is'.

>> Well, I didn't change synthskin from Cybertech so it still works the
>> same. :)
>> D. Ghost

>Yes - but what about concealability and higher attributes (esp. body and
>strength). Is that covered by the appropriate sections Cybertechnology?
>I can't recall right now.

Nope. However, I did check the Cybertech's TNs FYI. :) The base target
number for detecting a cyberlimb (if it's not obvious) is 4, Synthskin
increases that by +3 and wearing clothing over the limb increases it by
up to an addditional +3.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
re-cur-sion (ri-kur'-zhen) noun. 1. See recursion.

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Message no. 54
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Cyber limbs
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 06:38:35 -0600
I like the new cyber limbs rules, especially the equipment capacity
rules. You can finally get some nice built-in extras for little or no
essence. But I was hoping they would change the rules on the base
strength and quickness ratings. The problem is when the natural or
modified strength or quickness is greater than the cyber limb. For
example take a human with strength of 6 and he gets a cyber arm. The
cyber arm is weaker than the rest of his body. He has to pay extra to
get an arm equal to his natural strength. And what if he has a couple
of levels of muscle replacement or muscle augmentation. His body's
strength is now 8 and his cyber arm is only 4 and it will cost extra
nuyen and now essence to bring the cyber arm up to the level with the
rest of the body. It is the same for quickness. The books treats
cyber limbs like a "one size fits all" pair of shoes, not like the
specialized devices they are. When you get a new cyber limb (or any
cyberware for that matter) it should be custom fitted as they do now
with prosthesis. A new cyber limb should be 1 strength point greater
than the recipient's natural/modified strength and have the same
quickness rating as the recipient. The bonus beyond that would cost
as normal.

So what does everyone think?

Mike
Message no. 55
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*******.com
Subject: Cyber limbs
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:06:16 -0600 (CST)
Today, Michael Coleman spoke on Cyber limbs:

> with prosthesis. A new cyber limb should be 1 strength point greater
> than the recipient's natural/modified strength and have the same
> quickness rating as the recipient. The bonus beyond that would cost
> as normal.

I Agree, mostly. Yes they are customized, but that customization takes
time and money. If you are getting a cyberlimb illegally and you want it
customized, you'll have to wait longer, and for some customizations, you
might not be able to get one. [I suppose this is reflected in Avail/SI
but, you get my point.] Shadowrunner with little time are stuck getting
the 'plain vanilla' = default strength/quickness cyberlimb. If a
character has the time and money, (s)he should be able to get a cyberlimb
that has that strength and quickness, but it will cost more.

(Okay, so maybe I agree with the rules more than you on that point...)

However, there is definately something screwy when it comes to the essence
cost. There's a lot of ways to look at it, but I strongly feel that
strngth/quickness enhancements *at least* up to your natural
strength/quickness should not cost essence. I could even argue that *not*
having the same strength (like to low) in the arm as the rest of the body
should cost essence.

That's my 2nY.

Da Twink Daddy
e-mail: bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ: 514984
Message no. 56
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Cyber limbs
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 04:02:28 -0600
> Today, Michael Coleman spoke on Cyber limbs:
>
> > with prosthesis. A new cyber limb should be 1 strength
> point greater
> > than the recipient's natural/modified strength and have the same
> > quickness rating as the recipient. The bonus beyond that
> would cost
> > as normal.
>
> I Agree, mostly. Yes they are customized, but that
> customization takes
> time and money. If you are getting a cyberlimb illegally
> and you want it
> customized, you'll have to wait longer, and for some
> customizations, you
> might not be able to get one. [I suppose this is reflected
> in Avail/SI
> but, you get my point.] Shadowrunner with little time are
> stuck getting
> the 'plain vanilla' = default strength/quickness cyberlimb. If a
> character has the time and money, (s)he should be able to
> get a cyberlimb
> that has that strength and quickness, but it will cost more.
>
> (Okay, so maybe I agree with the rules more than you on
> that point...)
>
> However, there is definately something screwy when it comes
> to the essence
> cost. There's a lot of ways to look at it, but I strongly feel that
> strngth/quickness enhancements *at least* up to your natural
> strength/quickness should not cost essence. I could even
> argue that *not*
> having the same strength (like to low) in the arm as the
> rest of the body
> should cost essence.
>
> That's my 2nY.
>
> Da Twink Daddy
> e-mail: bss03@*******.uark.edu
> ICQ: 514984

But what I am saying is all limbs would have to be customized. Is the
length of your leg the same as mine? How about the length of your
forearm? Size of your hand? These are important differences. I can’
t walk very well if one leg is long than the other and would look
pretty silly if my knuckles brushed my kneecaps. If I am getting a
new cyber limb the doctor is going to have to take into account my
other limbs and use them as templates. And if the limb is being
customized for fit why not for the body's natural strength and
quickness. And why should is cost extra? You can get an ork or dwarf
limb with strength of 6 for the same price, and orks and dwarfs are
not that different in size from normal humans (for orks just look at
the nearest football field). And what if I am a very tall human and
want a troll cyber limb (hell the rules don’t say I can't). It costs
the same but has strength of 8 instead of 4. New cyber limbs have to
match the body they are being place on (size, strength, quickness,
skin color, etc.). This should be part of the cost. I also think
used cyber limbs could not be used will out a major rework, if at all.
Everyone is different, even twins. You can buy "standard" cyber limbs
as soon as there are "standard" people.

Mike
Message no. 57
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Cyber limbs
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:00:54 -0200
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 06:38:35 -0600
"Michael Coleman" <mscoleman@********.net> wrote:

> A new cyber limb should be 1 strength point greater
> than the recipient's natural/modified strength and have the same
> quickness rating as the recipient. The bonus beyond that would cost
> as normal.
>
> So what does everyone think?
>
> Mike

I always say the arm starts with the same atrributes as the
user, any bonus costing extra... By the way, are the arm enhancements
cheaper than in Cybertechnology?

>

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 58
From: James Dening james.dening@****.co.uk
Subject: Cyberlimbs
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:17:10 -0000
>From the Daily Telegraph, in the UK, today. Relevant to all you
sammies out there....

Monkey is master of remote control

A MONKEY has reached for a piece of banana hundreds of miles away by the
power of pure thought alone, providing new hope for efforts to allow
paralysed people to control artificial limbs by simply willing them to move.
By tapping into brain signals, a team has enabled a monkey to control a
robot arm and guide it to food. The scientists even transmitted the signals
over the internet, remotely controlling a robot arm 600 miles away.

The feat by Duke University Medical Centre researchers in North Carolina,
reported yesterday in Nature, is significant because it shows how scientists
are beginning to understand the language of the brain.

The movement signals were picked up by implanted electrodes and the team
believes that a similar system could allow paralysed patients to control
prosthetic limbs. A non-invasive method, using a brain scanner, could allow
a manual worker to control thousands of drone robots.

Dr Miguel Nicolelis, a team member, said that one of the most provocative
questions was whether the brain could incorporate an artificial limb as part
of its representation of the body, if it received rudimentary senses from
that limb. He said: "I truly believe that it is possible."

Dr Nicolelis and colleagues tested their system on two owl monkeys,
implanting arrays of as many as 96 electrodes, each less than the diameter
of a human hair, into several regions of the brain's surface, including the
motor cortex from which movement is controlled.

Dr Mandayam Srinivasan, director of the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology laboratory, where the robot was, said: "It was an amazing sight
to see the robot in my lab move, knowing that it was being driven by signals
from a monkey brain at Duke. It was as if the monkey had a 600-mile-long
virtual arm."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Cyberlimbs, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

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