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Message no. 1
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:24:04 +0100
Has anyone considered or actually rules for cyberlimbs and damage? I do
not mean the costs for repairing a Cyberlimb, but the simple fact that a
cyberlimb just needs to be repaired and not to be healed? I sure miss a
hit location system for SR as this would make things a whole lot easier
in a way. Did the bullet hit him in the chest or in that cyberarm? And
if so how would it confer to healing damage through a Wizzboy/girl?
Wouldn't it be a "repair" spell then for the chromed ones?
And no, I do not think that damaged cyberlimbs would not generate lesser
TN modifiers on the condition monitor as the use of a damaged cyberlimb
simply is not easy if you could for example not lift the barrel of the
gun as your upper actuator (or whatever) is not functioning.
On the same note, how would you take into account the fact that
cyberware is build to be full sensory but that the user (or the
interface for that matter) can simply set the paincontrolles to off to
be notg distracted?
--
---> Steadfast...Selfproclaimed Protector of Gerber BABY's
Surfin' through the 'trix is
not like dustin crops boy!
Uh, 089 of 200 it states in Gerber BABY...
And so it came to happen that XXXXXX wrote in reply to XXXXXX:
Message no. 2
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:44:11 MEZ-1MESZ
On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:24:04 Steadfast:

> Has anyone considered or actually rules for cyberlimbs and damage? I do
> not mean the costs for repairing a Cyberlimb, but the simple fact that a
> cyberlimb just needs to be repaired and not to be healed? I sure miss a
> hit location system for SR as this would make things a whole lot easier
> in a way. Did the bullet hit him in the chest or in that cyberarm? And
> if so how would it confer to healing damage through a Wizzboy/girl?
> Wouldn't it be a "repair" spell then for the chromed ones?
> And no, I do not think that damaged cyberlimbs would not generate lesser
> TN modifiers on the condition monitor as the use of a damaged cyberlimb
> simply is not easy if you could for example not lift the barrel of the
> gun as your upper actuator (or whatever) is not functioning.
> On the same note, how would you take into account the fact that
> cyberware is build to be full sensory but that the user (or the
> interface for that matter) can simply set the paincontrolles to off to
> be notg distracted?

I think what you are looking for is covered in the Street Samurai
Catalog. I'm not sure about hte rules, but I think if you got S or D
damage you must role on a table for cyberware damage.
Any further information needed? I can have a look but it will take
some time.

Sandman


Sandman
Message no. 3
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:02:01 -0600
:I think what you are looking for is covered in the Street Samurai
:Catalog. I'm not sure about hte rules, but I think if you got S or D
:damage you must role on a table for cyberware damage.
:Any further information needed? I can have a look but it will take
:some time.


Street samurai has the basic cyberdamage rules. Shadowtech and
Cybertechnology expand on them. The point still stands that a full body
replacement job can take multiple light wounds until the person almost
dies, and still, the cyberbody has taken no damage; normal healing rules
would do the job (and would be the only way to get better). That gets my
"LAME" stamp of disapproval.
Man an Machine is the "sr3 replacement" for all those tech books-
especially the SR1 compatible Street Samurai Catalog. So it should have
ground up rules for cyberdamage, and hopefully will rectify this situation
(Cyberlimbs are a mess anyhow, so should get special attention).

Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:00:15 +0100
And so it came to happen that HAUPT ULRICH FB08 wrote in reply to
Myself:
<snip>
> I think what you are looking for is covered in the Street Samurai
> Catalog. I'm not sure about hte rules, but I think if you got S or D
> damage you must role on a table for cyberware damage.
> Any further information needed? I can have a look but it will take
> some time.

No, thank you, I know the SSC information. But What I intended to ask is
about "healing" TIME of a damage Cyberlimb.
If you got a serious wound it will take aproximately (body 3) 30 days to
recover fully. If the hit would have rendered a Cyberarm useless I do
think that the time could be reduced as the arm simply needs to be
repaired and not has to rely on the natural healing process. The main
problem for me is with cybered Characters with two or more cyberlimbs,
the possibility of hits taken in those cybered parts are high and so the
question blossoms in myself how to deal with it. To keep gameflow I
figured it to let it simply stay as it is stated in SR3rd. But I just
can't see why a S Damage in the Cyberarm would take 30 days until it is
fully operational again. And I do not see why I should roll Body to see
if the cybered Limb "heals" naturaly. So if the Cybered Character pays
the price to repair the cyberarm than the arm should be repaired and
Targetnumber modifiers from the conditionmonitor should not be aplied
anymore. That is not the text as I read it written in SSC and asked
myself how to came up with some rules other than rule of thumb to give
my players and myself a stabler system than the one presented in SSC.
That problam arose as I was once again thinking by myself how nice a Hit
Location system for SR would be.
Once again thanx for the offer.

--
---> Steadfast...Selfproclaimed Protector of Gerber BABY's
Surfin' through the 'trix is
not like dustin crops boy!
Uh, 089 of 200 it states in Gerber BABY...
Message no. 5
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:50:40 -0600
> The point still stands that a full body
> replacement job can take multiple light wounds until the person almost
> dies, and still, the cyberbody has taken no damage; normal healing rules
> would do the job (and would be the only way to get better). That gets my
> "LAME" stamp of disapproval.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense when you interpret the rules a bit
differently. Check for damage to cyberwear anytime the _unresisted_ damage
is Serious or Deadly. (Or possibly let dodge dice affect this. That way, you
check the damage level once it's been dodged, to see if the 'ware has been
damaged.) Basically, what this does is make life harder for heavily cybered
types, and makes the rules have a bit more 'realism'. Someone could do
(unresisted) Light damage to you all day, but it's unlikely that your 'ware
is going to be hurt. Now, if someone does Deadly that you reduce down to
Light (remember, all the cyber-replacements that increase your Body and
armor level), then you're a lot more likely to have damage to your cyber.
(Because it's more likely then that it was your cyber that reduced the
damage for you).


-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 6
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:16:22 -0600
>That problam arose as I was once again thinking by myself how nice a
Hit
>Location system for SR would be.
>Once again thanx for the offer.


I picked up this nifty D12 at GenCon that has hit locations on it
corresponding to various areas of the body which I intend to use when
the need arises. I've seen other people with simple D6 or 2D6 rolls for
the same. Simple enough, to my mind.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
Proud owner of #972
Message no. 7
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:58:26 +0100
>Hm I found this draft, must have forgotten to send it to the list. Yes it is rather
old, but I haven't found any more references regarding this old Thread. Are there any new
conclusions out that I have mistakenly deleted?<

And so it came to happen that XaOs [David Goth] wrote:

> > The point still stands that a full body
> > replacement job can take multiple light wounds until the person almost
> > dies, and still, the cyberbody has taken no damage; normal healing rules
> > would do the job (and would be the only way to get better). That gets my
> > "LAME" stamp of disapproval.
>
> Actually, it makes a lot of sense when you interpret the rules a bit
> differently. Check for damage to cyberwear anytime the _unresisted_ damage
> is Serious or Deadly. (Or possibly let dodge dice affect this. That way, you
> check the damage level once it's been dodged, to see if the 'ware has been
> damaged.) Basically, what this does is make life harder for heavily cybered
> types, and makes the rules have a bit more 'realism'. Someone could do
> (unresisted) Light damage to you all day, but it's unlikely that your 'ware
> is going to be hurt. Now, if someone does Deadly that you reduce down to
> Light (remember, all the cyber-replacements that increase your Body and
> armor level), then you're a lot more likely to have damage to your cyber.
> (Because it's more likely then that it was your cyber that reduced the
> damage for you).

Alright, I try to make my original issue clear now, using a simple
example.
Norm gets shot, Deadly wound, after roling, GM decides that the lower
part of his right arme was shot to pieces. He'll need a new arm or a
very good medic and probably 2 months or so to recover.
Now we have the Sam. He gets shot equally, Deadly wound, roling for
limbloss GM decides that the lower part of the right arm was sewered.
But Sam has already a Cyberarm. So he just needs a replacement for the
lower part of the arm and would seriously not take more than a week or
so.
That is why I think the rules leave out something, if Cybergear gets
shot like the arm or a leg all you need is a repair and not a medic.
That is unless you say that every single hit shortcircuits the whole arm
and a new needs to be attached. Or that the extreme stress to the
cybergear overloads the connection to the nervetissue that is connected
to the cybergear. I think that both expalanations are lame.
So what to do?

--
---> Steadfast...Selfproclaimed Protector of Gerber BABY's
Surfin' through the 'trix is
not like dustin crops boy!
Uh, 089 of 200 it states in Gerber BABY...
Message no. 8
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberlimbs and healing
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:32:46 -0600
:Alright, I try to make my original issue clear now, using a simple
:example.
:Norm gets shot, Deadly wound, after roling, GM decides that the lower
:part of his right arme was shot to pieces. He'll need a new arm or a
:very good medic and probably 2 months or so to recover.
:Now we have the Sam. He gets shot equally, Deadly wound, roling for
:limbloss GM decides that the lower part of the right arm was sewered.
:But Sam has already a Cyberarm. So he just needs a replacement for the
:lower part of the arm and would seriously not take more than a week or
:so.
:That is why I think the rules leave out something, if Cybergear gets
:shot like the arm or a leg all you need is a repair and not a medic.
:That is unless you say that every single hit shortcircuits the whole arm
:and a new needs to be attached. Or that the extreme stress to the
:cybergear overloads the connection to the nervetissue that is connected
:to the cybergear. I think that both expalanations are lame.
:So what to do?


A) Sam should get a bonus to body (he will if he has multiple limbs).
That (slightly) lowers the chance of taking a deadly, and nicely reduces
the chance of limb loss (which almost never happens under current rules).
B) Cyberlimbs could still include a lot of living tissue (the limb is
rebuilt, sure, but some old stuff is kept)
C) If deadly damage causes cyber damage, the cause of the damage should
affect that area (so if the limb took cyber damage, it was hit). If only
"organic" damage occurs (which, per above, is less likely for metal jobs),
it should be to non metal areas, GM call.
D) Wait until Man and Machine comes out - FASA knows they have a problem
there.

Mongoose

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