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From:	U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject:	Cyberphsicosis and homicidal PC's
Date:	Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:13:25 EDT

Message no. 1 I've been listening to this cyberphsicosis thread and I think it sounds
valid to me. But to an extent. For example, in Nemisis, the main character
is like 85% cybered up. He is constantly contemplating his own humanity.
He even had a flach back or two. BUT, he didn't laugh maniacily and lept
through store windows shooting everyone in sight. But maybe he would latter.
It's definetly had an effect on him, but he doesn't _have to_ act nuts.
As a counter example, the crazy samuria from the secrets of power trilogy.
I can't remember his name but he lept into a room full of runners with
a SMG and spurs to try to kill them all.

As for the Homicidal Runners syndrome, I believe P Ward asked how many GM's
had players more interested in "killing people for money". Well I am one.
But it is kinda weird because sometimes they just wanted to shoot the
opposition dead and sometimes they would try to do it the Real Runners Way.
Usually its do to a few charismatic individuals who on the spur of the
moment start shooting for really no reason. And as someone put it, Let em
have it.

It's hard to persuade them to be sneaky sometimes, so show them the power
of the opposition but give them the oppertunity to escape getting their
clocks cleaned. Of course I realise now that my group has individual karma
pools at 7-9 and a team pool of about 16 that the opposition has to be
really tough. Or a little kraftier. <evil GM grin + Maniac laughter>

<< U-Gene -- Decker currently concoting and evil scheme to humble his >>
<< proud group of combat monsters. AHH hahahahhahhahahahha!!!!!! >>

From:	P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Cyberphsicosis and homicidal PC's
Date:	Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:35:03 BST

Message no. 2 Hey U-Gene, Karma pools of 7-9?

After the end of H's Back they managed to get to 14, so now I'm
busy making them burn points (to dodge head-shot sniper rifles,
that sort of thing... :-) ), to get the karma back down to a
manageable level.

16 Team Karma! I almost had to force them to put karam into team,
or there smart-gun cookie cutters didn;t work (hey, they didn't
trust him enough for karma, there gun won;t recognise them as a
friend...).

Phil

Oh yeah, it was Ridley, one of my favourite characterss, pity he
had to die, he was great for light entertainment.

"What's the matter, she can always buy another arm on her medical
insurance" Ridley (or something like that)

From:	Jonas Gabrielson <m94jga@*******.TDB.UU.SE>
Subject:	Re: Cyberphsicosis and homicidal PC's
Date:	Thu, 4 May 1995 17:16:20 +0200

Message no. 3 On Fri, 28 Apr 1995, U-Gene wrote:

> I've been listening to this cyberphsicosis thread and I think it sounds
> valid to me. But to an extent. For example, in Nemisis, the main character
> is like 85% cybered up. He is constantly contemplating his own humanity.
> He even had a flach back or two. BUT, he didn't laugh maniacily and lept
> through store windows shooting everyone in sight. But maybe he would latter.
> It's definetly had an effect on him, but he doesn't _have to_ act nuts.
> As a counter example, the crazy samuria from the secrets of power trilogy.
> I can't remember his name but he lept into a room full of runners with
> a SMG and spurs to try to kill them all.

I think the guy from Nemesis is an extreme, and probably not even
human any more. But what the hey. What I'm really here to say is that the
cool dudes can be just as psycho as the next guy (in your example, the
nemesis and the samurai). All persons cybered to their ears won't display
their disturbed psychology in a violent way - not all will become
homicidal psychopaths, or serial sexual killers, or whatnot. The lack of
emotion and calm head is probably only another deficiency, only it is
much more accepted among shadowrunners, who all are a bit disturbed (what
kind of normal person would sneak around in buildings and kill all
liabilities without remorse?).

I know lots of people won't agree with me, but here I go:

I have previously mentioned that CoC is one of my favourite
games. It will probably come as no surprise, then, if I tell you that I
have enforced a Sanity rule in my group, because it adds a dimension to
the game. Essentially, I use Essence as a rough estimate of sanity, and
award phobias and other derangements to people with low Essence. They
need not be severe, as mentioned above, but a part of the runner's self
has been stripped away, or enlarged to abnormal proportions. Also,
frightening experiences, the Fear power and other things, can lower
Essence further, giving way for new derangements.

I know it's not exactly in line with the SR definition of
Essence, but it's only a home rule, after all.

> As for the Homicidal Runners syndrome, I believe P Ward asked how many GM's
> had players more interested in "killing people for money". Well I am one.
> But it is kinda weird because sometimes they just wanted to shoot the
> opposition dead and sometimes they would try to do it the Real Runners Way.
> Usually its do to a few charismatic individuals who on the spur of the
> moment start shooting for really no reason. And as someone put it, Let em
> have it.

Another idea to deal with this problem, apart from having NPCs
hunt them for past atrocities, is to change the group's reputation. After
a few violent runs with zero subtlety, the group will get a tag on them
saying "THUG" with neon letters. They will get jobs that only focus on
violence, the number of opponents killed and the amount of ammo expended.
The thinking will be left to other, more competent teams, and the
(former) runners will only be the meat to enforce a solution. This tag is
going to be really hard to wash off. If your players still like it, and
do nothing to vhange things, send them off to Desert Wars. If they still
like it, kill the characters, dump the players, and get a new gaming
group - the one you have is only a bunch of munchkins.

> It's hard to persuade them to be sneaky sometimes, so show them the power
> of the opposition but give them the oppertunity to escape getting their
> clocks cleaned. Of course I realise now that my group has individual karma
> pools at 7-9 and a team pool of about 16 that the opposition has to be
> really tough. Or a little kraftier. <evil GM grin + Maniac laughter>

But you can't just shove deadly or low-paid runs at your groups,
because they will get bored and start play something else. Give them the
occasional sweet deal, without foul play. Laugh at your players'
amazement :)

-Jonas

From:	U-Gene <C14101@*******.BITNET>
Subject:	Re: Cyberphsicosis and homicidal PC's
Date:	Thu, 4 May 1995 14:58:32 EDT

Message no. 4 Jonas Gabrielson writes: [in response to homicidal PC's]
>After a few runs with zero subtlety, the group will get a tag on them saying
>"THUG" with Neon letters.

Thug? Ha! They are known as the "Demolition team", and they very rarely use
plastic explosives.

PC: "We try to infiltrate quietly, but sometimes things just blow up."

OK, one time it was my fault, I wanted to see them sweat :)

>The thinking will be left to other, more competent teams, and the
>(former) runners will only be meat for the solution.

Yes that would be the general thinking. BUT, depending on how you run your
campaign, corps or MR Johnsons or whatever doesn't always have access to
"competent runners" because there is simply not that many competent runners
available all the time. It's not that they never do anything stealthy, they
almost always try, its just that it usually just doesn't happen(because of poor
planning and no "plan B"). So a Mr. Johnson is sometimes forced to hire less
qualified runners simply due to time constraints. Although this means they
don't get "good" jobs as often. (or any job for that matter). But the best
factor for them to be hired is that they are still alive. Even though they
fought and killed many people, have many enemies <grin>, and destroyed millions
in property says that even if they don't do it quietly, they won't get caught
and they won't leave any evidence :)

But they did do a few pretty profesionaly, which you didn't know of course.

<< U-Gene -- Decker who wishes to be in a more subtle party. Any takers? >>

From:	P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Cyberphsicosis and homicidal PC's
Date:	Fri, 5 May 1995 13:47:41 BST

Message no. 5 Jonas wrote :-

THUG lables, exactly what most of my team have on them.
Now they only get hired for thug-runs, where they are
used as cannon fooder, and not intended to gget back.

This has two main benefits;
i) They _like_ THUG runs.
ii) When they do get sick of always being shat
on by the J's, I can point at them and tell
them why; it's your own fault.
I then write a nice, subtle adventures based on people
coming after them for revenge, and watch them have a
real nightmare. ;-)

Ya know, killers aren't the same thing as muchkins, you
can be one without the other.

I've recenetly taken away the thug stick, and given them
several sweet-deals, and they've been extremely careful and
efficient in their handling of it. I WAS AMAZED ;-)

Phil (Renegade)

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