Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:31:18 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-06 20:30:40 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

> SHADOWRUN CYBERPIRATES SOURCEBOOK
> Thi sourcebook covers covers the Caribbean League, the Phillipines, the
> Ivory Coast, and the pirate heaven of Madagascar, and introduces special
> rules for water drones and vehicles as well as undersea exploration.

Oh thank Heaven, Hell and everything in between. Now I can finally run that
underwater adventure to the Kraken's lair and have it really worth something.

> From the codes, it looks like it'll be stock number 7124 and cost US$18.

(sighing) Yet more cash I'll never get to see for long...

> Finally we'll get some info about Africa and the Far East!

Until they publish hardcore material on Azania and/or Japan, I am certain we
won't be really satiated. IF anything, this is going to tempt us that much
more.

-K
Message no. 2
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 03:51:24 +0100
In article <3.0.16.19970811214536.2f5f08e4@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Cyberpirates CHEERS (was:
Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
>At 07:31 PM 8/7/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote these timeless words:
>
>>Until they publish hardcore material on Azania and/or Japan, I am certain we
>>won't be really satiated. IF anything, this is going to tempt us that much
>>more.
>>
>Ok... Mike commented on both of these areas, since they are asked about so
>often...
>
>Azania -- "Do we really want ANOTHER Nazi Elven nation?"

Of course not, so change it. That would seem to be the logical step
would it not? Do away with the IE, nobodies going to miss them anyway.

>Japan -- No reason to do much with Japan, outside of describing it briefly.
> Between racial meta-racial prejudices, and the fact that the corps control
>things so tightly, you can't really do much in Japan, unless you want to
>plan a Japanese Human working strictly for one corp.

Considering the amount of cultural and financial influence Japan has on
the Shadowrun milieu, and the concentration of japanese influence
throughout the genre, this seems to be a strange attitude indeed. Even
CP2020 admits a considerable influence from Japan in the genre.

Of course, it might be difficult deciding exactly what Japan is like in
205*, but the Japanese have released an "official" sourcebook, Gen-Ichi
and friends are working on the unofficial sourcebook. So it's not like
there's a lack of material.

And to state that "you can't really do much in Japan" is irresponsible
and wasteful.

But hell, who cares what I think. From the DLOH I find those two
statements you claim to be his, not only inconsiderate but also
surprisingly flippant. Methinks Mike might need a brief reality check.

Maybe someone ought to consider buying the Bubblegum Crisis information
for Mike, and showing him what can be done with Japan. Even with major
corporations ruling the place. Or should I say, "especially" with
corporations ruling the place. It might also be an idea to point him in
the direction of the African and Japanese Sourcebook (World Book 4 & 8)
for Rifts. Seems that other game manufacturers aren't thinking that
these areas are pointless. Thinking about it, Rifts also have two South
American Sourcebooks available... OK, so the game is geared towards
Munchies, so what, the source material is good.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 3
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 01:56:49 +0100
In article <3.0.16.19970811234957.2f5fcd64@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Cyberpirates CHEERS (was:
Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
>At 03:51 AM 8/12/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>>In article <3.0.16.19970811214536.2f5f08e4@*****.com>, Bull
>><chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Cyberpirates CHEERS (was:
>
>>throughout the genre, this seems to be a strange attitude indeed. Even
>>CP2020 admits a considerable influence from Japan in the genre.
>>
>Influence, yes. And they do a great job of showing that influence
>throughout the game. But look at the what little has been stated about
>Japan so far, and not all of this is Mike's fault. He's stuck with trying
>to deal with what came before.

Don't recall stating that it's Mike's fault, but he is the new line
developer and situations like this are his to repair. Mistakes amde in
the past with Shadowrun line development, are the same as any other
industry, the newcomer inherits the old problems and either attempts to
fix them, or becomes buried by them.

>Japan is, for all intents and purposes, a Giant Corporate Enclave.

Yeah, so?

>Sure,
>there are multiple corps, but... There isn;t much else to it. The few
>hard references to Japan pretty much say that you're either a human corp
>boy, a lowlife metahuman used as slave labor for the corps, or you're stuck
>on one of several islands around the main part of Japan, exiled there by
>"Mainland" Japan.
>
>That sort of limits what you can do there a lot.

Oh, right. Like I'm going to agree with that one. Erm, Bull, have a
word with Gen-Ichi, you may find that he has some pretty interesting
views on what can and can't be done in Japan.

>>And to state that "you can't really do much in Japan" is irresponsible
>>and wasteful.
>>
>Well... You are, unfortunately, limited in what you can do right now. It
>would be cool if you wanted to play a strike team belonging to Fuchi, but
>you're always working for Fuchi then. In a place as small as japan is,
>there's no real shadows to hide in, and the majority of your players,
>characters, etc aren'yt going to find it useful. At least, I'm assuming
>that's is reasoning...

Utter tripe. For centuries, Japan has revelled in unberground
activities. If the damn place is so small, and so difficult to do
anything there, how come the Yakuza have existed for centuries, and
thrived in that limited environment. even today with modern high tech
policing, they are still a considerable force in the Japanese
underworld, and they are the most public of the organisations over
there.

No real shadows to hide in? Incredible. The Japanese have had shadows
for longer than most civilisations have had roofs on their houses.
Their political intrigue, background machinations, industrial espionage
and corporate manoeuverings are legendary, and incredible to behold. If
japan was so seemlessly limited in capabilities, why is that so much of
the Cyberpunk genre is based in Chiba, Tokyo, Kyoto, etc? Why is it
that so many artists, directors, writers are able to do so much in such
a limiting environment. Consider also, that much of Gibson's cyberpunk
work was based in this "corporate enclave".

>In fact, in that vein, Cyberpirates will include a write up of the Ivory
>Coast, so they ARE doing stuff with Africa.

The Ivory Coast is a damn good start, but will most likely merely wet
the appetites of product buyers and users for more information for the
area surrounding this _small_ area of the continent. as for Azania,
well...

>And since you mention South America (and therefore Amazonia), I'll give you
>Mike's comments on that as well.
>
>Basically, that's another area that's tough to define in Shadowrun terms.
>I mean, if yoiu wanted to play a agme about slogging through the jungles,
>you'ld be playing a different game. Shadowrun isn;t about that, and until
>they can find a way to really link it and make it truly useful to
>"Shadowrunners", they're not gonna d anything with it. Plus, it smacks of
>yet even more IE style mystical and all powerful creatures.

Why? there are a couple of comments regarding the Amazon as being
awakened? Whatever that may entail. but considering that so much of
the US problems of today are based in Central and South America, it's
strange that this area is so boring, and difficult to define.

>The thing is, Mike is trying to turn the game's focus back on where it
>should be, the Shadowrunners.

Erm, slight misprint here I think Bull. Shouldn't that read "American"
Shadowrunners?

>Right now, Japan, or Azania, or Australia,
>or wherever would make nice back\drops for an adventure or two, but they're
>not going to make for great settings for a campign, unless you want to run
>a specialized campaign (Freedom fighters in Azania, a Corp Strike team in
>Japan, etc). But those types of games aren;t the focus of Shadowrun. It's
>a game about "Crime and Criminals" (Another Mike M. Quote :)).

And at the risk of starting an argument here, that is a typical American
comment. An adventure or two, but not a great setting for a campaign.
Really? You'd better find a decent way to explain that to the people
who live in these countries you so rapidly write off.

><shrug> WHo knows. With the focus going back to corps next year, maybe
>we'll see another Target book aimed around Corps that includes Japan.

Somehow I feel that is unlikely, but I can but hope that maybe the focus
of Shadowrun material will recognise that there is a world outside of
the American coastline.

>That's the other thing. Mike is trying to focus and "link" the Shadowrun
>products more closely than they were before. Sourcebooks, adventure books,
>and novels will tie in more closely with the "Back Story" than before.
>you're seeing it now, with Underworld, Mob War, Cyberpirates, target:
>Smugglers, etc. thesea re all part of the "Year of Crime". Before we had
>the elction stuff.

I don't really have a problem with FASA "linking" sourcebooks, adventure
modules and "stuff". I do however, have a problem with no recognition
beyond US shores. Although I do appreciate that the rest of the world
is so incredibly ill-formed, tedious and boring compared to the mighty
US.

>Anyways,. I'm rambling... See ya! :]

And I'm starting to get uncool. bye.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 4
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:36:30 +0100
In article <3.0.16.19970812232605.33bf3882@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Cyberpirates CHEERS (was:
Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
>[SNIP]
>
>Ok, I'm not trying to get into an arguement with ya, Pete. I know better
>than that. if nothing else, you'll win through sheer volume... <big grin>

Volume... Me??? Nah, you must be mistaking me with someone else. :)

<snippage to avoid retorts>
>I'm just giving my opinions, so... take them for what they're worth...
>(be nice now...:))

I don't know how to be nice Bull, just ask Paul and Blaze. :)


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:35:00 +0100
In article <v03007800b016dad55a64@[204.96.67.146]>, Skye Comstock
<bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM> rambled on endlessly about Cyberpirates CHEERS
(was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World)
>>Dangerous decision. Nobody agrees with me on this list and lives to
>>enjoy it. Don't know why, but it seems to be historical. <g>
>
>Damn, my monitor might blow up on me like Gweedo the Killer Pimp...
>He returned... but hasn't been his talkative self, did he agree
>with you? ;)

I don't think so, but people seem to die a violent net death when they
agree with anything I post. <g>

>>Or just do to Azania what they did to Scotland, Wales and the
>>Netherlands - arbitrarily destroy them.
>
>"Unfortuneately, in 2056, Azania fell into the ocean. Many whining,
>Immortal Elves wearing thorns on their bodies were quickly killed.
>Following that, a large volcano spontaneously erupted and
>disintegrated all of their artifacts." Ooops... ;)

<snigger> Hmm, it has possibilities.

>>I'm not sure on the workability of "Target" books, I was severely
>>disappointed with Target UCAS, which seemed rather slim for the money,
>>and with constant references to other material, much of it seemed a
>>rehash of other information.
>
>I was happy with Target, it gave me new information, I doubt I'll
>set a campaign in any of the cities (barring Chicago, but then again,
>I'd set that one in the bugfest at it's highest...).

For which, Bug City would be a better book. :)

>It was a bit
>slim for a $15 book, I get a 30% discount at the gaming store, so
>$12 is an excellent price.

I get 10% discount from my local comic store, but even with that, the
book was a bit disappointing. I don't mind some of the content, though
the city sections were sad. I guess it has uses for people not too
familiar with the rest of the SR books, but with the references placed
throughout the book, it seems to say, Oh by the way you need to buy this
one too.

>I thought Detroit and Boston weren't all that interesting,
>personally.

Agreed.... Oh no, now I'm doing it :)

>Detroit is basically just one big Corporate Enclave and I'm not sure
>Shadowrunners could really do anything there, unless you're on a
>strike team or are a wage slave. </ahem>

No comment. :)

>>Well, several damn good movies have been made there, it's got wild
>>animals and jungles, and a hell of a long history, with a culture and
>>mysticism as old as mankind itself. i don't think it would be too bad
>>an idea.
>
>The only movies I remember about Africa are Shaka Zulu and Congo... ;)
>Shaka Zulu is a great movie, Congo was silly.

African Queen (the best), Cape Horn, Zulu (Michael Caine), several
safari movies, Great White Hunter (Clint Eastwood), Lion King (sorry, I
loved that one)... and a pile more.


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Cyberpirates CHEERS (was: Re: Miami (Florida) in the 6th World), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!