| From: | Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Cyberpirates errata and Active Sonar [LONG!!!] |
| Date: | Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:59:54 +1200 |
> Danyel N Woods said on 12:35/16 Jun 98,...
>
> > I just borrowed a copy of Cyberpirates off someone, and after
reading
> > it, it occurred to me that either the Stuart-class corvette has a
> > misprinted Hull attribute, or it's horrifically under-armed for a
> > thousand-ton ship. Hell, there are 250t missile boats *today* that
> > mount heavier loads than an autocannon and sixteen anti-tank(?)
> > missiles.
>
> The hull rating might be about right, after all the Japanese
> Akihito-class nuclear aircraft carrier (125,000 tons) has a Hull of
> 9. The table on page 163 of Cyberpirates gives Hull ratings based
> on displacement, and from that the Stuart masses between 1000
> and 5000 tons.
Precisely. I'm not arguing the system, just this ship's particular
rating. I'll quote some RL examples for comparison:
* Osa-II missile boat, Hull 2 (approx 250-300 tons))
Mounts two twin-30mm cannon, four SS-N-2 'Styx' anti-ship missiles.
* Nanuchka missile corvette, Hull 3 (approx 850 tons)
Mounts one 76mm light naval gun, six SS-N-9 'Siren' anti-ship
missiles, one twin-rail launcher with 22 SA-N-4 SAMs, one 30mm rotary
cannon.
* Argentine A-69 class 'light frigate'. Hull 4 (approx 1200 tons).
One 100mm light naval gun, one twin-40mm cannon, four Exocet
anti-ship missiles, and two tubes for anti-submarine torpedoes.
So while the _Stuart_ has a Hull rating that pegs it as being about the
A-69's size, its weapons are worse than those of the Osa or Nanuchka
classes, while the description puts it about the Nanuchka's size and
role, which I feel is a little wierd. I could invent a whole range of
small ships based on today's vessels and these designs off the top of my
head (at least sizes and weapon fits), but I won't post them unless
anyone asks. Takers?
> I'd still like to see the ship design rules, though, to see about
> designing a ship like that myself... I'm wondering if FASA could
> be persuaded to post them on their web site...
I hope they can be persuaded - I'd like to verify my own designs and
modifications against canon rules - but unless they're printed in some
future sourcebook, the chances of our getting our grubby little mitts on
those rules are probably somewhere between 'slim' and 'again with the
jokes, huh?'. I mean, if we get those rules, pretty soon there's going
to be major naval battles all over the place as shadowrunners/pirates
buy up shipyards and have 'my ship's tougher than yours' competitions.
Waitaminute - naval battles? Would that spoil something FASA has
planned? Hmmm...
> The armament seems a bit light, although Outlaw missiles aren't
> anti-tank, they're "multi-platform" missiles according to Rigger 2,
> being launched from aircraft, ships, and ground vehicles -- sort of
> like the American Harpoon or Standard missiles, I imagine
> (although those are only fired from two types of vehicle, I know).
Humph. 'Multi-platform' just means that anything big enough to carry
the launcher can shoot Outlaws. I assumed that the Outlaw was used for
clobbering ground targets like vehicles and bunkers, so I figured
'anti-tank' was a fair classification. I seriously doubt that any
naval commander worth his stripes would want a command that only packed
sixteen of those rinky-dink missiles. (What's the damage code on an
Outlaw-II anyway? I rather doubt it's anything big enough to do
anything but inconvenience anything larger than Ocean Commanders or
*maybe* another Hull 1-2 vessel.)
> > So, would someone please direct me to the on-line
> > Cyberpirates errata sheet, or tell me where I can find the
discussions
> > in the list archives?
>
> I don't think we had a discussion about that, and on-line errata
> sheets are hard to come by for SR books AFAIK (unless
> somebody's made them and hasn't mentioned it anywhere I
> could have read it).
No Cyberpirates errors discussion as yet? Well, there's no time like
the present, is there? :-) I've got the book to hand, the time to kill
(bar those pesky exams), and the expertise(?). Anybody with any
questions about CP, throw 'em out here!
For another of my pet hates: Active Sonar knocks 2 points off the Sonar
Signature ratings of all targets within range, including the parent
ship, which means that if the parent ship has a high signature to begin
with, the chances of its being detected are still fairly low - which, as
far as I know, is bull. My reading on the subject says that active
sonar ('Yankee search') _automatically_ grants _all_ passive sonar
listeners within range a detection on the sonar-source.
Suggested fix: if a sonar source uses Active Sonar, any passive sonar
system within _twice_ the active sonar's range and in the same thermal
zone _automatically_ detects the emitter source and classifies it as if
it had two successes on the Sonar Results Table. (ie. everyone knows
that there's a sub/surface ship/sonobuoy/helicopter out there that's
hunting big game and doesn't care who knows it.) A Sonar Test can be
made to get more details of the contact, but is always treated as if it
got a minimum of two successes (i.e. 1-2 successes count as 2, 3 or 4
act as normal.)
Those in a _different_ thermal zone to the active source make a standard
Sonar Check with a modifier of +4 for every difference in thermal
conditions - this goes for any Active Sonar detection attempt through
thermoclines, too - but a -6 modifier for the searcher's use of Active
sonar. Any success by the listener means that they know someone is
using active sonar - _what_ is using it depends on the circumstances.
Just to sum up: Using active sonar:
Each thermocline between vessels +4
Vessel is using its active sonar -4 (all other vessels,
for detection by searcher)
Vessel is using active sonar -6 (active ship's Sonar
Sig for detection by other vessels)
Other sonar modifiers apply as usual.
An example would be nice, yes? Here it is:
A Vaneyev-class diesel sub (Sonar 4, Sonar Sig 6) has been knocking off
Malaysian freighters, and is currently below a thermocline. A UCASN New
Hampshire class attack submarine (Sonar 9, Sonar Sig 8) sent to hunt the
pirates is also under the thermocline, and decides to use Active Sonar
to either detect the Vaneyev or spook it into doing something stupid. A
single PING goes out from the nuke boat to 22.5 kilometres. The Vaneyev
is lucky enough to be 30 klicks away, but hears the PING and immediately
knows that there's another sub out for its blood. Thinking he'll be
clever, the Vaneyev's captain takes his boat up through the thermocline
and out of the New Hampshire's immediate vision.
Closing the range to some 20 kilometres, the New Hampshire again uses
its active sonar. This time, the Vaneyev is within range.
The New Hampshire rolls its 9 Sonar dice against the Vaneyev's Sonar Sig
of 6, (-4 for Active search, +4 for thermocline, +2 for range) with a
final TN of 8. They get two successes: they've detected another sub,
but can't be exactly sure of who it is.
The Vaneyev again hears the PING. Rolling its 4 Sonar dice against the
New Hampshire's Sonar Sig of 8 (-6 for Active search, +4 for
thermocline, +2 for range, final TN 8), they manage three successes!
The Vaneyev now knows that there's a nuclear attack sub out there -
their day just took a real nose-dive. What's worse is the fact that the
nuke boat knows they're there, too.
The pirate captain begins to wish he'd saved the Karma from that sonar
test...
Ah, what the hell, let's have a second example:
HMNZS Achilles, a modified Aohana-class frigate (Sonar 4, Sonar Sig 4),
is out hunting the same pirate pack. Sending her Stuart-class escort
(Sonar 3, Sonar Sig 4) out to play stalking horse, Achilles awaits her
chance.
This Vaneyev, having heard that there's a UCAS attack sub in the
neighbourhood, has decided that he's done enough for this month and is
making a high-speed run back to high base in Indonesian waters under the
thermocline.
The Stuart turns on its Active Sonar when the Vaneyev is 12.5 kilometres
away. Rolling 4 Sonar dice against the Stuart's Sonar Sig of 4 (TN 2
after all modifiers), the Vaneyev gets four successes. The sonarman has
sharp enough ears to classify that pulse from the south-east as coming
from HMNZS Hawk, a corvette that specialises in sub-hunting and has a
kill already.
Meanwhile, Hawk rolls her 3 Sonar Dice against the Vaneyev's Sonar Sig
of 6 (final TN of 10), and doesn't get a single success; they can't hear
a thing with a sonar set that poor. Oh, well; she's only there as a
decoy anyway...
Thinking he'll be smart, the Vaneyev's skipper sees which way Hawk is
going - east - and decides to head north. When he's sure he's out of
the corvette's earshot, he climbs above the layer to see what's
happening - and finds the way blocked by a line of Active sonobuoys laid
by Achilles' helicopter. Though there's scant chance they'll hear him
if he ducks back under the layer, he'd rather not risk meeting the
helicopter/aircraft that laid them, and turns west.
Where Achilles herself is waiting. She gets the first sniff of the sub
at 12.5 kilometres, and rolls 4 Sonar dice against the Vaneyev's Sonar
Sig of 6 (TN 9 due to cavitation, surface-ship, and range mods) and gets
one success. 'Waitaminute, that's not normal sea-noise...'
The Vaneyev rolls her Sonar against Achilles' Sonar Sig of 4 (TN 6 due
to range), but generates no successes of her own. The noise of the
water flowing over the hull is blanking out the hydrophones.
Achilles, suspecting she's got a customer, starts up her active sonar
when the Vaneyev reaches 10 kilometres out. The PING catches the
Vaneyev still above the thermal layer. Sonar 4 against TN (6 -2
(cavitation) -4 (Active search) +3 (surface ship) +2 (range)) 5, getting
two successes. 'There're aren't any friendly boats in this area, are
there?'
The Vaneyev can't help but hear the PING, and immediately knows she's
been nabbed by a warship, but the sonarman tries to classify the threat
as the captain begins evasive manoeuvres: Sonar 4 against TN (4 -6
(Active search) +2 (range)) 2 (minimum). They get four successes, and
they know just how badly they're screwed.
The captain panics and launches a pair of MADCAPs at Achilles, making
his identity moot: 'he fired on us, he's a threat. Kill him.' Two
ASROCs later, no more pirates.
Jee-zus, but that went on for a while. I didn't realise representing
the true drawbacks of active sonar would be so complicated (or
long-winded!)
Anybody want to punch holes in this? (Preferably not MADCAP-sized ones,
but if you gotta...)
(And I *know* the book system is simpler; this one is more realistic.
Use what you like.)
Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'...They're banging away with their active sonars, but no-one's
listening.'
'What do you mean?'
'Well, they're doing close on thirty knots. At that speed, they
could run over my daughter's stereo and not hear it.'
