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Message no. 1
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:03:43 -0500
At 09:42 PM 3/16/00 +0200, you wrote:
>K. Suderman wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I missed the reference- 'Gunderson Corps'?
>
>At ''Cyberpirates'' the infamous Gunderson Corporation is the local
>''Aztecnology'' for Miami. If you aren't using the ''Cyberpirates''
>supplement I highly recommend it.
<snip much>

I don't know why this is, but an ocean-based game just doesn't appeal to
me. Maybe it's too much like work. :)

[I look at rules for scuba diving and I just can't imagine anyone
wanting to roleplay doing it. I guess I've spent too many hours of
decompression shivering in a leaking drysuit... Though if someone's going
to get bent, I'd rather it was my character, not me...]

>(I also have a rasta troll joint smoking merc who also keeps basshing
>random things including
> Gunderson attack copters).

I have an amnesiac voodoo orc with a satchel of grisly and mysterious
things who gets far too little play. (It's been a year since our other
ShadowRun GM quit after a session got out of hand.) If I'm ever in Greece,
I'll bring him along... :)

>That kind of campaign can really put one's ethics to a test.

My players complain that my games contain too much moral ambiguity. I
apologize sincerely every time- and keep turning up the heat. :> [I
have a great run planned that involves babies, little tranq patches, and
padded bags. I hope they like it.]

Keith


Keith Suderman
Florida State University
Department of Oceanography
850-980-3218
Message no. 2
From: Manolis Skoulikas greatworm@*****.com
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:39:24 +0200
K. Suderman wrote:
>
> At 09:42 PM 3/16/00 +0200, you wrote:
> >K. Suderman wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, I missed the reference- 'Gunderson Corps'?
> >
> >At ''Cyberpirates'' the infamous Gunderson Corporation is the local
> >''Aztecnology'' for Miami. If you aren't using the ''Cyberpirates''
> >supplement I highly recommend it.
> <snip much>
>
> I don't know why this is, but an ocean-based game just doesn't appeal to
> me. Maybe it's too much like work. :)
>
> [I look at rules for scuba diving and I just can't imagine anyone
> wanting to roleplay doing it. I guess I've spent too many hours of
> decompression shivering in a leaking drysuit... Though if someone's going
> to get bent, I'd rather it was my character, not me...]
>

Not wanting to roleplay it?
Then let me tell you a story...
Remember me mentioning my troll downing a Gunderson copter with his
assault
cannon. Well, it turned out that copter has used a mountred Vigilant
Rotary
Autocannon that the team just HAD to get its hands on (to mount on their
little pirate boat named ''Candy Candy'', hence the name of the team
''The Candy Candymen''). Since the the crash was off the Glades in
shallow
waters, they decided to dive for it since my 'star player' (THE
TROLL!!)
had invested his starting karma in diving 4 and allways wanted to use
it.
Not knowing the exact depth, nor bothering to check for maximum safe
diving
time, he procceds to go down with the grappling hook of the winch in one
hand,
the flashlight in the other. It turns out it is 10 feet deep in there
and
that he could safely dive for less time than he actually could!
Nonchallantly
he procceds to roll a 14 on the perception check, an 11 on the strength
check
to pry the turret off the copter with a crow bar (fails) but a natural
28 (!)
on the strength check to pry the nose (!!!) of the copter along with
the nose
turret from the fuselage! What can I say...You can't refuse such a
valorous
effort. So he hooks the Vigilant on the grapple and procceds to
surface. It
ends that his luck runs out and he suffers from nitrogen narcosis. So,
as soon
as he comes out, he bullies every one else away from the redeemed
autocannon
and starts hugging it like a little baby chanting loving lullabies to
the thing
(imagine a troll with charism 2 singing baby songs). All the time he is
still
wearing his flippers and a diving mask crookedly between his horns. The
other
guys are seriously intimidated into going belowdecks when the troll
decides
he wants to try the new 'cuttie' and starts sighting at things. He
accidentally
fires a burst and ends drilling holes on the aft of the boat, in the
process
damaging the only luxury accessory on the miserable craft: the 'Candy
Candy'
gold lettered name. While the troll is getting satisfied that th gun
really
rocks the rest of the team is rolling huge joints from his personal
stash
and keeps tossing them in his general direction in the vague hope that
they
can distract him away from the gun get him half a dozen of sleeping
pills or
something...
At the same time all this is happening, Gunderson has located the craft
in
the wrecage area and is sending a fast patrol boat to cause some serious
injury...
The old boat has no side windows so the mage cannot trget any spells,
the boat's
leaking water for rhe last 10 minutes and therefore cannot outrun the
gunderson
craft in a million years, and the fecal matter is in direct collision
course with
the proverbial fan...
Amidst cries of:
Merc: We're dead, we're dead!
Decker: We're f**ked, we're f**ked!
Rigger: My boat, my boat!
Mage : What do you care? The damn thing doesn't even have windows!!!

the troll decides that the decicively logical course of action
is to ... SHOOT AT THE PATROL BOAT.
He steadies the Auto cannon and procceds to fire.

Reality check:
It is a vehicle mounted weapon so I rule that recoil is 6 points
per bullet fired.
It fires minimum 5 bullets and only with a Gunnery (10) test can
you fire a random 1d6 bullets instead of the regular five.
He is trying to hit the captain / rigger on the bridge and suffers
a +2 glare from the sun , +6 from full cover and must succed in
perception (10) to spot him.

Back to the wonderland of charmed existences...
He succeds on the Gunnery test.
He rolls 1 on the 1d6 and only fires one bullet!
He gets a 15 on the perception check (for spotting)
ON ONE DIE of Intelligence!!!
He rolls a 22 (!) on the ranged combat test and proceeds to destroy
the reasonably surprised rigger's head along with a reasonable part
of the rigging system. The patrol boat stops dead...
The rocoil throws him off board and the othrs proceed to stash the gun
belowdecks. As he climbs up, the mage proposes a hot cup of coffee
(with the aforementioned sleeping pills cocktail) while the bullets
are flying all around. The troll happily cosumes the contains of the
mug in one gulp (it was hot at all but had alot of sugar) and falls
into a satisfied slumber. While the others patch the boat, the mage
keeps the patrol boat at bay with a couple of Barriers and in very
short time , the team is sailing for th Bahamas.
As an aftermath, the troll, feeling sorry for his behaviour decides to
'fix' the damaged 'Candy Candy' sign.
Short on equipement (and gold paint) he patches the hole with a rusted
steel plate and completes in sub yellow paint the writing of the lost
letters N and D with a an inverted N and a crooked D, since he does
not know how to write in English! The rigger goes ballistic but is too
intimidated and is forced to leave the thing as it is so as not to
invite the wrath of the troll!!!

Talk about role playing ding, and I didn't bring out the megalodontes!


>(I also have a rasta troll joint smoking merc who also keeps basshing
> >random things including
> > Gunderson attack copters).
>
> I have an amnesiac voodoo orc with a satchel of grisly and mysterious
> things who gets far too little play. (It's been a year since our other
> ShadowRun GM quit after a session got out of hand.) If I'm ever in Greece,
> I'll bring him along... :)
>
Sure thing, e-mail me before you do and we 'll arrange a lot of things.
We will take Dimitris (the Troll) and go out for beers and compare
stories
And of course you are going to roleplay with us (maybe even on the
beach!)

> >That kind of campaign can really put one's ethics to a test.
>
> My players complain that my games contain too much moral ambiguity. I
> apologize sincerely every time- and keep turning up the heat. :> [I
> have a great run planned that involves babies, little tranq patches, and
> padded bags. I hope they like it.]
>
Same here, do you believe they wanted to sell the pirates they captured
as
SLAVES nad BODY PARTS!!!
Those air timed mini white phosphrus grenades solved the matter rather
decicively from my part.

The Wiz
Message no. 3
From: Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:19:17 +0200
Manolis Skoulikas wrote:
>

>
> Reality check:
> It is a vehicle mounted weapon so I rule that recoil is 6 points
> per bullet fired.
> It fires minimum 5 bullets and only with a Gunnery (10) test can
> you fire a random 1d6 bullets instead of the regular five.
> He is trying to hit the captain / rigger on the bridge and suffers
> a +2 glare from the sun , +6 from full cover and must succed in
> perception (10) to spot him.

Sometimes I am damn lucky ain't I? :-P

> As an aftermath, the troll, feeling sorry for his behaviour decides to
> 'fix' the damaged 'Candy Candy' sign.
> Short on equipement (and gold paint) he patches the hole with a rusted
> steel plate and completes in sub yellow paint the writing of the lost
> letters N and D with a an inverted N and a crooked D, since he does
> not know how to write in English! The rigger goes ballistic but is too
> intimidated and is forced to leave the thing as it is so as not to
> invite the wrath of the troll!!!
>
> Talk about role playing ding, and I didn't bring out the megalodontes!

Hehehehe. As an official Manolis Troll Player I have to say that this
session he described above was one of the best I ever had in my life.
The whole Candy Candy team laughed their ass off with all these tragic
moments of our team. The point that Manolis wants to make here is: You
can take all the bad things that happen to your character and make out a
really great story with lots of humour in it. Cause let's face it, I
could have killed the whole team being stoned like that and holding a
bloody huge cannon in my hands.

>
> >(I also have a rasta troll joint smoking merc who also keeps basshing
> > >random things including
> > > Gunderson attack copters).

Oh man! We have to meet! :-)
Bob (Marley, my Troll :-P ) would love to meet you for sure! :-)

> >
> Sure thing, e-mail me before you do and we 'll arrange a lot of things.
> We will take Dimitris (the Troll) and go out for beers and compare
> stories
> And of course you are going to roleplay with us (maybe even on the
> beach!)

He said the magic word... BEER!! :-)

> > >That kind of campaign can really put one's ethics to a test.
> >
> > My players complain that my games contain too much moral ambiguity. I
> > apologize sincerely every time- and keep turning up the heat. :> [I
> > have a great run planned that involves babies, little tranq patches, and
> > padded bags. I hope they like it.]
> >
> Same here, do you believe they wanted to sell the pirates they captured
> as
> SLAVES nad BODY PARTS!!!
> Those air timed mini white phosphrus grenades solved the matter rather
> decicively from my part.

Don't forget an angry Troll throwing team members in the water when he
heard about slaves and body parts :-)
Bob was quite sensitive on these matters and he had the strength to show
this to the other team members :-)

>
> The Wiz

Cybertroll or Bob the Troll :-)

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Message no. 4
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:31:08 -0500
>
> I don't know why this is, but an ocean-based game just
> doesn't appeal to
> me. Maybe it's too much like work. :)
>
> [I look at rules for scuba diving and I just can't
> imagine anyone
> wanting to roleplay doing it. I guess I've spent too many hours of
> decompression shivering in a leaking drysuit... Though if
> someone's going
> to get bent, I'd rather it was my character, not me...]
>
Heheh....no comment on this one. But I agree, and its been a long
time since I did even mild
deco. Damn warm water diving spoils your horribly. Scary that I even miss
it, but I do.
I sent a few comments to the list after Cyberpirates came out. The rules
were at least decent, and I can't
imagine wanting to roleplay this one either.


>
> >That kind of campaign can really put one's ethics to a test.
>
> My players complain that my games contain too much moral
> ambiguity. I
> apologize sincerely every time- and keep turning up the heat.
> :> [I
> have a great run planned that involves babies, little tranq
> patches, and
> padded bags. I hope they like it.]
>

LOL. I can't wait to hear the stories that come out of this one.
Which bring me to an odd topic Keith and I had discussed but not yet
implemented (mostly due to my lazy butt). Has anyone tried having a player
or GM join remotely via
any of the host of teleconferencing software out there?
Message no. 5
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:33:46 -0500
> > [I look at rules for scuba diving and I just can't imagine anyone
> > wanting to roleplay doing it. I guess I've spent too many hours of
> > decompression shivering in a leaking drysuit... Though if someone's going
> > to get bent, I'd rather it was my character, not me...]
>
>Not wanting to roleplay it?

<<snip a very entertaining story>>

Okay, this is a two part reply:

Part 1.
I agree that it sounds like a huge amount of fun. I wish I'd been
there. Your players sound like they really bring the game to life. And
I've got a soft spot for trogs, so that's even better.

but...
Part 2
[Please note, this is not an attack on the players, the roleplaying, etc.
etc. etc. It's a demonstration of just how un-fun *I* would be roleplaying
scuba...]

>It turns out it is 10 feet deep in there...<snip> ... and he suffers from
nitrogen narcosis.

Nobody has *ever* gotten narced at 10 fsw. I know those who claim to feel
it at 60'. I feel it at 80-90 and am impaired (as in "any decision I make
will be regrettable") at 120+. Working at 190' is a real bitch- thoughts
are sluggish.
[Part of the diving lore includes "Martini's Law" which states that 50 fsw
is equivalent to one martini... I describe narcosis as like being drunk in
front of my mother: it feels pretty cool, but I'm just not able to enjoy it...]

>So, as soon as he comes out... <snip>

Nitrogen narcosis has no lasting effects. When you ascend, it goes away.

End of part 2.

Please, please, please understand this as a conflict between my perception
of reality and that modeled by the rules, not as a slur on anyone
involved. I'm a research diver and occasionally a support diver for
long-range cave exploration (cf. http://wkpp.org/ if that sounds
interesting) so my willing suspension of disbelief is weak in this
area. So be it- that still leaves a lot of the world open for roleplay...

Still friends?

Keith


Keith Suderman
Florida State University
Department of Oceanography
850-980-3218
Message no. 6
From: Manolis Skoulikas greatworm@*****.com
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:18:23 +0200
Keith wrote:
> Part 1.
> I agree that it sounds like a huge amount of fun. I wish I'd been
> there. Your players sound like they really bring the game to life. And
> I've got a soft spot for trogs, so that's even better.
>
> but...
> Part 2
> [Please note, this is not an attack on the players, the roleplaying, etc.
> etc. etc. It's a demonstration of just how un-fun *I* would be roleplaying
> scuba...]
>
> >It turns out it is 10 feet deep in there...<snip> ... and he suffers from
> nitrogen narcosis.
>
My fault, Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! I 'm afraid I was suffering from
sleep deprivation at the time having worked a 12 hour day on Sunday,
preocceded to go to the movies and could n't help my self posting this
story at 5 o'clock in the morning.
It should read 110m , not 10 feet. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO WEAR SCUBA FOR
THAT NOW, WOULD YOU?


> Nobody has *ever* gotten narced at 10 fsw. I know those who claim to feel
> it at 60'. I feel it at 80-90 and am impaired (as in "any decision I make
> will be regrettable") at 120+. Working at 190' is a real bitch- thoughts
> are sluggish.
> [Part of the diving lore includes "Martini's Law" which states that 50 fsw
> is equivalent to one martini... I describe narcosis as like being drunk in
> front of my mother: it feels pretty cool, but I'm just not able to enjoy it...]
>
> >So, as soon as he comes out... <snip>
>
> Nitrogen narcosis has no lasting effects. When you ascend, it goes away.
>
I m' sorry. I only practice free diving and I am in total darkness with
these things.
My fault again. Still it was agood story.


> End of part 2.
>
> Please, please, please understand this as a conflict between my perception
> of reality and that modeled by the rules, not as a slur on anyone
> involved. I'm a research diver and occasionally a support diver for
> long-range cave exploration (cf. http://wkpp.org/ if that sounds
> interesting) so my willing suspension of disbelief is weak in this
> area. So be it- that still leaves a lot of the world open for roleplay...
>
> Still friends?
>
> Keith
>
Are you kidding me? Of course we are still friends. You would have to be
VERY
roude to me to lose me as a friend and you didn't even come close.
Actually there is nothing I enjoy more than people correecting me when I
am wrong.
That way I get to learn things. So if you want to stay my friend , keep
sending these
posts.

Rock on Child of the Sea!

I'm expecting you in Greece this summer!

The Wiz
Message no. 7
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Cyberpirates (was Melee Combat Speed Question)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:51:17 -0500
>It should read 110m , not 10 feet. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO WEAR SCUBA FOR
>THAT NOW, WOULD YOU?
:) :) :)
I'm laughing right now because in the last 2 years I have logged well in
excess of 100 dives to 10 feet or less (over half to 6 feet or less). And
yes, those are *lame* dives. Extremely lame. In my defense, I was
collecting samples- alternating between digging up sand and taking
cores. It could have been done w/o scuba, but it would have been
exhausting. Still, it's kinda embarrassing to have all these lame dives in
my logbook.
sigh...


>My fault again. Still it was a good story.
An excellent story. And 'realistic' rules (whatever that means) would have
gotten in the way. Someday, I hope to consistently err on the side of fun,
not on the side of realism...
(btw, had I been there, there would have been a moment of silence
while I digested the way physics/physiology worked in your world- then I
would have played it to the hilt. And afterwards, over beers, we would
have discussed my version of physics/physiology... :)


>Rock on Child of the Sea!
>
>I'm expecting you in Greece this summer!
>
>The Wiz
Don't hold your breath- I'm still trying to get a weekend off so I can fly
home to see my newborn niece...

Keith


Keith Suderman
Florida State University
Department of Oceanography
850-980-3218

Further Reading

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