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Message no. 1
From: pgrosse@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:41:41 -0500
We're getting closer to cybergear.


Wired to the Brain of a Rat, a Robot Takes On the World
By ANNE EISENBERG


THE nerve center of a conventional robot is a microprocessor of
silicon and metal. But for a robot under development at Georgia Tech,
commands are relayed by 2,000 or so cells from a rat's brain.
A group led by a university researcher has created a part mechanical,
part biological robot that operates on the basis of the neural
activity of rat brain cells grown in a dish. The neural signals are
analyzed by a computer that looks for patterns emitted by the brain
cells and then translates those patterns into robotic movement. If the
neurons fire a certain way, for example, the robot's right wheel
rotates once.
The leader of the group, Steve M. Potter, a professor in the
Laboratory for Neuroengineering at Georgia Tech, calls his creation a
Hybrot, short for hybrid robot.
"It's very much a symbiosis," he said, "a digital computer and a
living neural network working together."
Dr. Potter has been building the system of hardware, software,
incubators and rat neurons that constitute the Hybrot since 1993, when
he was a postdoctoral student at the California Institute of
Technology. He and his group have not only introduced the neurons to
the world outside their dish; the team has also closely monitored
minute changes that take place in the shape and connections of the
neurons as they are stimulated, using techniques like time-lapse
photography and laser imaging.
Dr. Potter hopes that close observation of how brain cells behave as
they are exposed to a world of sensation will help researchers
understand the way small groups of neurons go about learning. "If the
network begins to get better at a job," he said, "we will watch what
changed within the network to allow it to do that."
Dr. Jonathan Wolpaw, laboratory chief and professor of neuroscience at
the Wadsworth Center of the New York State Department of Health and
the State University of New York at Albany, said that Dr. Potter's
research could yield a simple system for exploring the capacity of
neurons and circuits to change based on incoming activity.
"These changes could be analogues of what happens in learning," Dr.
Wolpaw said. "You are dealing with neurons, the same tissue as in a
brain," although in a different setting and with different circuitry.
"Some things presumably are in common, for example, the neuron's
capacity for plasticity," he said.
In Dr. Potter's hybrid system, the layer of rat neurons is grown over
an array of electrodes that pick up the neurons' electrical activity.
A computer analyzes the activity of the several thousand brain cells
in real time to detect spikes produced by neurons firing near an
electrode.
A silver three-wheeled model of the robot is commercially available
through the Swiss robotics maker K-Team (www.k-team.com) for about
$3,000 and is about the size of a hockey puck. It trundles along at a
top speed of one meter per second.
"We assign a direction of movement, say, a step forward, that is
automatically triggered by a pattern of spikes," said Thomas DeMarse,
a former member of Dr. Potter's group who is an assistant professor in
the department of biomedical engineering at the University of Florida.
"Twenty of these patterns, for instance, means 20 rotations of the
wheel."
As the robot moves, it functions as a sensory system, delivering
feedback to the neurons through the electrodes. For example, Mr.
DeMarse said, the robot has sensors for light and feeds electrical
signals proportional to the light back to the electrodes. "We return
information to the dish on the intensity of light as the robot gets
closer and the light gets brighter."
The researchers monitor the activity of the neurons for new signals
and new connections. Dr. Potter said that the feedback mechanism was
crucial to the functioning of the neural network. In traditional,
isolated cultured networks, he said, in which neurons are not
connected to a body, the activity patterns of the neurons are largely
pathological. "They behave in an aberrant way," he said. "It's a
symptom of sensory deprivation, because the neurons are not receiving
the input they usually get."
He decided to provide a body for the neurons early in his research,
first in computer simulation and then in reality, so that neurons
would have feedback. In that way, if the cells learned, he and his
group might observe the changes that came about in the network.
"People say learning is a change in behavior that comes from
experience," he said. "For a cultured network to learn, it must first
be able to behave."
There is an analogy to the human nervous system in the feedback loop
developed by Dr. Potter, said Nicholas Hatsopoulos, an assistant
professor in the department of organismal biology and anatomy at the
University of Chicago.
Dr. Hatsopoulos also works on brain-machine interfaces, including ways
that brain signals may one day be used to move prosthetic devices.
"Potter's device has sensors that pick up information, and then the
signals go back to the dish and stimulate the cells," he said.
Similarly, he said, "signals out of the brain control the arm, but
there are also sensors in the muscles and skin that send information
back, too."
Such feedback loops are necessary to basic research in brain-machine
interactions, he said. Researchers need not only to record signals
that drive a device but also take signals from sensors and stimulate
the nervous system. "Closing the loop will be a key issue in moving
this field to the next level, for the feedback presumably helps
learning," he said.
Miguel A. L. Nicolelis, a neuroscientist at Duke University, has
identified signals generated by a monkey's brain as it gets ready to
move, and then used the signals to move a robotic arm. "We are
discovering that when animals learn to operate a robotic device, the
operation changes the sensory and motor maps of the animal," he said.
"Steve is looking for the same thing at the cellular level."
Dr. Potter has not yet demonstrated learning in his network but said
he might be able to do so within six months. In experiments, Dr.
Potter said he hoped to observe the Hybrot following an object at a
certain distance.
"The next step is to watch it to see if it becomes better at following
this object," he said. "That would become exciting."
Message no. 2
From: jdefazio@***.rr.com (Emily DeFazio)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:57:02 -0500
ACK! Evrytime I read/hear something like this it makes me skin crawl. I'm
one of those ppl who wouldn't have any wares installed... the thought of
exposing my tender brain to metal and compromising my brain pan is Not on my
"To Do In This Lifetime" list. I don't even dig that chip being used on
humans subjects that will contain "only medical date". I guess I'm too much
of a conspiracy bum to think it would be used by doctors only (damn the
military for taking away my naivete`). I don't want cyberwear! It truly
frightens me IRL- playing with it is vastly different.

ED
Message no. 3
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 01:01:22 -0800
>ACK! Evrytime I read/hear something like this it makes me skin
crawl. I'm
>one of those ppl who wouldn't have any wares installed... the
thought of
>exposing my tender brain to metal and compromising my brain pan is
Not on my
>"To Do In This Lifetime" list. I don't even dig that chip being
used on
>humans subjects that will contain "only medical date". I guess I'm
too much
>of a conspiracy bum to think it would be used by doctors only (damn
the
>military for taking away my naivete`). I don't want cyberwear! It
truly
>frightens me IRL- playing with it is vastly different.

Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of getting new eyes. The old
ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they perfect the tech before
I get one of those.
Message no. 4
From: zebulingod@*****.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:10:00 -0700
"Valeu John EMFA" <ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil> wrote:
> >ACK! Evrytime I read/hear something like this it makes me skin
> crawl. I'm
> >one of those ppl who wouldn't have any wares installed... the
> thought of
> >exposing my tender brain to metal and compromising my brain pan is
> Not on my
> >"To Do In This Lifetime" list. I don't even dig that chip being
> used on
> >humans subjects that will contain "only medical date". I guess I'm
> too much
> >of a conspiracy bum to think it would be used by doctors only (damn
> the
> >military for taking away my naivete`). I don't want cyberwear! It
> truly
> >frightens me IRL- playing with it is vastly different.
>
> Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of getting new eyes. The old
> ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they perfect the tech before
> I get one of those.

While I don't have the same need for the eyes, it would be nice to have a
display link that I could use to show things like maps, email, etc. And I
wouldn't get a datajack until they perfected the technology, either, but I
would definitely get one then.

Zeb
Message no. 5
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:27:02 +0100
At 06:10 PM 16/5/2003, Zeb wrote:
> > Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of getting new eyes. The old
> > ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> > But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they perfect the tech before
> > I get one of those.
>
>While I don't have the same need for the eyes, it would be nice to have a
>display link that I could use to show things like maps, email, etc. And I
>wouldn't get a datajack until they perfected the technology, either, but I
>would definitely get one then.

I would, I'm afraid, get drilled as soon as Fuchi brought out their first
deck. It would probably be all I'd have done, although I'd probably
consider a c^2 deck at some point and the benefits of thermographic vision
modification aren't lost on me :D


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 6
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:44:18 +1000 (EST)
--- Paul Grosse <pgrosse@********.com> wrote: > We're
getting closer to cybergear.
>
>
> Wired to the Brain of a Rat, a Robot Takes On the
> World
> By ANNE EISENBERG

Reminds me of the dolphin from "Johnny Menonic" with
Keanu Reeves, you know the one with shadowrun
undertones. The dolphin in that had a speech
translator, was wired to the matrix, & could work the
defense of the laser, I presume It would have adjusted
It's moter nuerons to a different pattern aswell like
the animals described in the article. Animals seem to
adjust & compensate much better than Humans

GZ

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Message no. 7
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:02:19 +1000 (EST)
--- Emily DeFazio <jdefazio@***.rr.com> wrote: > ACK!
Evrytime I read/hear something like this it
> makes me skin crawl.

You made mention of the military, are you :)? Those
who live by the sword die by the sword & I fully
promote & support It to an extent of course :) I would
offer myself for experimentation If I was a broken man
& was only half of what I could be or do, military
corp or not I'm mercenarie, bring It on I say, I won't
let you down :)

GZ

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:06:19 +0200
According to Emily DeFazio, on Friday 16 May 2003 14:57 the word on the
street was...

(Could you quote the relevant bits of the messages you reply to? Thanks :)

> ACK! Evrytime I read/hear something like this it makes me skin crawl.
> I'm one of those ppl who wouldn't have any wares installed... the
> thought of exposing my tender brain to metal and compromising my brain
> pan is Not on my "To Do In This Lifetime" list.

But what about cyberware that doesn't go into your brain? I mean, getting a
cyberhand installed because you lost your real one in an accident doesn't
sound like a bad deal to me, or having enhanced articulation because your
joints are creaky?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hooligans (zn) baldadige watervogel
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: jdefazio@***.rr.com (Emily DeFazio)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:23:09 -0500
Gurth said:
<snip>But what about cyberware that doesn't go into your brain?
<snip>

All your nerves run to your brain. They follow paths there, sure, but even
for a cyber hand to work, it would have to connect very close to, if not
right in your spinal column, and still be connected to the brain. Enhanced
articulation would be a tougher call, a lot of ppl could benefit from it for
arthritis- like you say. I think it's more the idea of having metallic bits
that gets me, versus the adding/taking away of organic/meat bits. It's just
my opinion, though, I can't see myself acting different to someone who had
work done like that, other than to ask them if it was helping them.
Message no. 10
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:40:21 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valeu John EMFA" <ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil>
To: "'Shadowrun Discussion'" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 2:01 AM
Subject: RE: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section

> Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of getting new eyes. The old
> ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they perfect the tech before
> I get one of those.

So you won't be using Kori's DOS datajack drivers.
--Anders
Message no. 11
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:52:08 -0800
>> Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of getting new eyes. The
old
> >> ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> >> But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they perfect the tech before
>> I get one of those.

>So you won't be using Kori's DOS datajack drivers.

Are you kidding? Anything in this body is going to be run by the
Penguin.
(Linux)
Message no. 12
From: jzealey@***.edu.au (James Zealey)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:45:48 +1000
> "Emily DeFazio" <jdefazio@***.rr.com>
> All your nerves run to your brain. They follow paths there, sure, but even
> for a cyber hand to work, it would have to connect very close to, if not
> right in your spinal column, and still be connected to the brain.

You wouldn't have to connect a cyberhand into your spinal column - you'd
just connect it into the nerves which your real hand already uses.
Current hands pick up the electric potential produced when an amputee
attempts to use a missing muscle. Directly linking to the nerves is
supposedly very close to being a reality for this type of prosthetic.
Message no. 13
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:41:06 +1000 (EST)
--- Valeu John EMFA <ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil>
wrote: > >> Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of
getting
> new eyes. The
> old
> > >> ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> > >> But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they
> perfect the tech before
> >> I get one of those.
>
> >So you won't be using Kori's DOS datajack drivers.
>
> Are you kidding? Anything in this body is going to
> be run by the
> Penguin.
> (Linux)

What the hell? "Have you been drinking to much beer
again Mr Madison, you Know the Penguin Isn't real
Billy". Who the frag's the Penguin?

GZ

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Message no. 14
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:01:23 -0800
> >>> Sorry, but I'll stand by my statement of
>>> getting new eyes. The old
> >>> ones just ain't holdin up like they used to.
> >>> But as for a datajack... I'll wait till they
>>> perfect the tech before I get one of those.
>
>>>So you won't be using Kori's DOS datajack drivers.
>
>> Are you kidding? Anything in this body is going to
> >> be run by the Penguin. (Linux)
>
>What the hell? "Have you been drinking to much beer
>again Mr Madison, you Know the Penguin Isn't real
>Billy". Who the frag's the Penguin?

The Penguin is the logo for Linix. I guess it's a warning to Big Bill.
"Drink Bud Ice, but beware the Penguin"

I just figured Linix would be more adaptable then windoze.
Message no. 15
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:13:36 +0200
According to Robert Ennew, on Tuesday 20 May 2003 08:41 the word on the
street was...

> What the hell? "Have you been drinking to much beer
> again Mr Madison, you Know the Penguin Isn't real
> Billy". Who the frag's the Penguin?

Tux, the Linux penguin emblem/logo. Go to, say, http://www.linux.org and
you'll soon spot him.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hooligans (zn) baldadige watervogel
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:35:29 +0200
Am Mon, 19 May 2003 20:01:23 -0800 hat Valeu John EMFA
<ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil> geschrieben:


>
> The Penguin is the logo for Linix. I guess it's a warning to Big Bill.
> "Drink Bud Ice, but beware the Penguin"

Linux. With one "i" and one "u".

Remember that, or you kernel will panic.

> I just figured Linix would be more adaptable then windoze.

Lots more.

Linux is smaller, since it can work without a GUI, and I heard that the
Linux PDA (Zaurus or sumthing like it), is yuite good, too. But I cannot
proove that.


--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot

http://www.jack-ryan.de/shadowrun
The Linux ShadowRun Character Generator Developer's Mailinglist : LSRCG-
developers@***********.net
Message no. 17
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 15:59:46 +0200
Am Sat, 17 May 2003 12:23:09 -0500 hat Emily DeFazio <jdefazio@***.rr.com>
geschrieben:

> Gurth said:
> <snip>But what about cyberware that doesn't go into your brain?
> <snip>
>
> All your nerves run to your brain. They follow paths there, sure, but
> even
> for a cyber hand to work, it would have to connect very close to, if not
> right in your spinal column, and still be connected to the brain.
> Enhanced
> articulation would be a tougher call, a lot of ppl could benefit from it
> for
> arthritis-like you say. I think it's more the idea of having metallic
> bits
> that gets me, versus the adding/taking away of organic/meat bits. It's
> just
> my opinion, though, I can't see myself acting different to someone who
> had
> work done like that, other than to ask them if it was helping them.

Although all nerves go to the brain, not all are used for "higer"
functions, like memory or speech.

So, a cyberarm would connect to the parts of a nervous system, where the
"move [left,right] arm" area is.

OTOH, a datajack would be interfacing with afore said "higher" functions,
and would be a _bit_ different from the "dumb" cyberware.
You could use it to obtain data from a brain (How that would be done, I am
not sure, but it would be possible. You'd get root to a non-multi-user OS,
so to speak)



--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot

http://www.jack-ryan.de/shadowrun
The Linux ShadowRun Character Generator Developer's Mailinglist : LSRCG-
developers@***********.net
Message no. 18
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Cybertechnology: From the Times science section
Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:02:52 +0200
Am Sat, 17 May 2003 12:44:18 +1000 (EST) hat Robert Ennew
<robertennew@*****.com.au> geschrieben:


>
> Reminds me of the dolphin from "Johnny Menonic" with
> Keanu Reeves, you know the one with shadowrun
> undertones.

Jonny Mnemonic is a short story written by the same guy who wrote
Neuromancer, William Gibson. If anything, SR has cyberpunk undertones, but
not vice versa :)

> The dolphin in that had a speech
> translator, was wired to the matrix, & could work the
> defense of the laser, I presume It would have adjusted
> It's moter nuerons to a different pattern aswell like
> the animals described in the article. Animals seem to
> adjust & compensate much better than Humans

Well, humans are able to sdjust, too, but not so fast.
A human brain is doing "additional" operations to the more basic operations
of a rat brain, making it harder to balance it all. But harder in a sense
of "learning": A child can adapt to new situation really quick, much faster
than an adult can.

Ah, the sweetness of childhood. *sigh*

--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot

http://www.jack-ryan.de/shadowrun
The Linux ShadowRun Character Generator Developer's Mailinglist : LSRCG-
developers@***********.net

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