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Message no. 1
From: RYAN E THOMPSON <KTFK06C@*******.COM>
Subject: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:54:19 EDT
Hi,

I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
creature, I attached smartlinks and titanium
bone lacing along with datajack cybereyes, and retractable spurs. Now
than it was brought to my attention that
smartlinks and titanium bone lacing would be impossible because when
a were changes to its animal form it
grows, muscles expand ,and the whole body grows. So if the person
had smartlinks he or she's smartlinks
would stretch and eventually break, either that or the smartlink
would pull into the person leaving a gaping
whole in the palm. Also with titanium bone lacing the persons lungs
and chest cavity would have to grow and
the titanium bone lacing would suffocate the were.
What do you think could be done to fix the smartlinks and
titanium bone lacing so that the would not
effect a weres transformation? Is it possible that a strong elastic
type substance could be mixed with the
titanium so that it would expand to the transformation? And with the
smartlinks elastic could be woven through
the cables fibers.
Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.


Thanks,


Ryan
Message no. 2
From: 293/Douglas Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 20:37:08 +0000
On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, RYAN E THOMPSON wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
> creature, I attached smartlinks and titanium
> bone lacing along with datajack cybereyes, and retractable spurs. Now

Whats wrong, isn't being Were good enough?

> Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
> me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
> could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.

Well, in my opinion, were-creatures have a closer link to nature. A
Were-person would even WANT cyberware because it wouldn't be natural to
them. Oh well, thats just my opinion.

> Thanks,
> Ryan

Laterz, Enigma
Message no. 3
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:57:26 +0300
no problem if this change is caused because of magic so do not worry
(there are also more things without answer for what they happened in
shadowrun -for example see the limb replacement. How can a added limb can
take the energy from the whole body although it has not muscle???? of cource
this is why the implantation of this cyberware is impossible to be seen
in the future-)

On Wed, 12 Jul 1995, RYAN E THOMPSON wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
> creature, I attached smartlinks and titanium
> bone lacing along with datajack cybereyes, and retractable spurs. Now
> than it was brought to my attention that
> smartlinks and titanium bone lacing would be impossible because when
> a were changes to its animal form it
> grows, muscles expand ,and the whole body grows. So if the person
> had smartlinks he or she's smartlinks
> would stretch and eventually break, either that or the smartlink
> would pull into the person leaving a gaping
> whole in the palm. Also with titanium bone lacing the persons lungs
> and chest cavity would have to grow and
> the titanium bone lacing would suffocate the were.
> What do you think could be done to fix the smartlinks and
> titanium bone lacing so that the would not
> effect a weres transformation? Is it possible that a strong elastic
> type substance could be mixed with the
> titanium so that it would expand to the transformation? And with the
> smartlinks elastic could be woven through
> the cables fibers.
> Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
> me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
> could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Ryan
Message no. 4
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 02:39:40 -0500
>
> Hi,
>
> I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
> creature, I attached smartlinks and titanium
> bone lacing along with datajack cybereyes, and retractable spurs. Now
> than it was brought to my attention that
> smartlinks and titanium bone lacing would be impossible because when
> a were changes to its animal form it
> grows, muscles expand ,and the whole body grows. So if the person
> had smartlinks he or she's smartlinks
> would stretch and eventually break, either that or the smartlink
> would pull into the person leaving a gaping
> whole in the palm. Also with titanium bone lacing the persons lungs
> and chest cavity would have to grow and
> the titanium bone lacing would suffocate the were.

The smartlink shouldn't be a problem, just use a coiled cable or some such.
The skeleton is tough- either it changes because you paid essnce for it (this
is never a problem with shapechange spells) or it will stop yopui cold.
Isn't essence important ot were critters? Most paranormal poweres are based
on it.
By the way, there was sopmthing like this called CyberFurry that somebody
mailed me after I posted a request for it, full of ideas for sugically created
man beasts, including a transforming metal skeleton (IE, one that enabled a
change in stature and gait from human to animal like)
53845+14^
seb@***.ripco.com
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:09:37 +0930
293/Douglas Miller wrote:
> > Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
> > me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
> > could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.
>
> Well, in my opinion, were-creatures have a closer link to nature. A
> Were-person would even WANT cyberware because it wouldn't be natural to
> them. Oh well, thats just my opinion.

Wether they want them or not is irrelevant... when they shape shift,
they'll lose the lot.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 6
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 03:50:52 -0700
>
>293/Douglas Miller wrote:
>> > Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
>> > me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
>> > could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.
>>
>> Well, in my opinion, were-creatures have a closer link to nature. A
>> Were-person would even WANT cyberware because it wouldn't be natural to
>> them. Oh well, thats just my opinion.
> Robert Watkins (bob@**.ntu.edu.au) wrote:
>Wether they want them or not is irrelevant... when they shape shift,
>they'll lose the lot.

My group had this question come up about 5 years ago, when a mage wanted to
use a spell to transform into a bird (crow or raven). I ruled that because
the mage had paid essence for the cyberware (a pair of cybereyes, I think),
that the cyberware would shift with the mage. I would think that if someone
had the cyber before becoming a were-creature, then it would be a part of
them and shift.

(I haven't read the stats for weres in years, so I can't remember if they
transmit their status by bite or not. I'll have to look it up, since my
players have bullied me into starting a SR II campaign now :) ).

Later

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 20:26:54 +0930
WILLIAM FRIERSON wrote:
> My group had this question come up about 5 years ago, when a mage wanted to
> use a spell to transform into a bird (crow or raven). I ruled that because
> the mage had paid essence for the cyberware (a pair of cybereyes, I think),
> that the cyberware would shift with the mage. I would think that if someone
> had the cyber before becoming a were-creature, then it would be a part of
> them and shift.

But a spell, and an innate magical ability are different things. At the
least, it would interfere with the change.

> (I haven't read the stats for weres in years, so I can't remember if they
> transmit their status by bite or not. I'll have to look it up, since my
> players have bullied me into starting a SR II campaign now :) ).

They don't... shape shifters are their own species, and not a victim of
some disease.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:02:25 +0200
> I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
>creature

First a friendly warning, it has been known for people to call others
"munchkin" after they admitted to creating characters like the one you
mention here...

> What do you think could be done to fix the smartlinks and
>titanium bone lacing so that the would not
>effect a weres transformation? Is it possible that a strong elastic
>type substance could be mixed with the
>titanium so that it would expand to the transformation? And with the
>smartlinks elastic could be woven through
>the cables fibers.

Not much could be done, I think. First of all you'd have to think about how
this would have been implanted in the first place -- shapeshifters have this
nasty habit of regenerating their wounds, so if the doc cuts open your arm
it closes almost right behind his knife :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's the bald man's dream to grow hair, baby
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 9
From: Will <UGCOTTRE@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:40:45 EDT
Robert Watkins wrote:

> William Frierson wrote:
> >(I haven't read the stats for weres in years, so I can't remember if they
> >transmit their status by bite or not. I'll have to look it up, since my
> >players have bullied me into starting a SR II campaign now :) ).
>
> They don't... shape shifters are their own species, and not a victim of
> some disease.

I haven't read the NAGEE's, so I don't know if it's there or not, but
a couple of months ago "Ivy" posted some stuff on Were-beings (not
shape-shifters but those meta/humans that were infected by Lycanthropy)
including a weretiger named Fluffy. I've uploaded most of it and
if there is enough interrest I'll write it out and post it.

Will Cottrell
Message no. 10
From: Will <UGCOTTRE@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:53:13 EDT
Robert Watkins:

>WILLIAM FRIERSON wrote:
>> My group had this question come up about 5 years ago, when a mage wanted to
>> use a spell to transform into a bird (crow or raven). I ruled that because
>> the mage had paid essence for the cyberware (a pair of cybereyes, I think),
>> that the cyberware would shift with the mage. I would think that if someone
>> had the cyber before becoming a were-creature, then it would be a part of
>> them and shift.
>
>But a spell, and an innate magical ability are different things. At the
>least, it would interfere with the change.

I belkive that at the onset of were-metamorphosis, the regenerative
powers are at their peak, any cyberware that the meta/human might have
would be pushed out of the body like any other "foreign" object and
fall to the ground.

(Now comes the flamable statement)

I also believe that as the cyberware is lost that the regenerative
powers would be able to give full essence back to the character for
the cyberware (I'm not saying that if a Vampire bites a were-being,
then after a good nights rest and a transformation or two it will
come back) as the objects have been removed and absolute matches
have replaced the effected systems. The BBB says that there is no
"natural" way to raise essence but never says anything about
supernatural ways and as there is no cure for Lycanthropy as yet
your players won't be able to use this to upgrade and get full
essence going into the second operation. The one benifit I see to
players is that they have some perfectly extracted cyberwareto sell
when thay get back from their lycanthropic twelve state killing spree.
;-)

>$.02,
Will
Message no. 11
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:47:11 -0400
RYAN E THOMPSON asks:

> What do you think could be done to fix the smartlinks and
> titanium bone lacing so that the would not
> effect a weres transformation?

Easy. Don't use them.

By "werecreature" I'm going to assume you're talking about a shapeshifter,
as described in the 'Critters' section of SRII (among other sources.) These
beings are born as animals, not as people, and tend to have more animal
nature than human nature. Tigers are already strong, fast, and fierce --
why would one want to resort to technology that could dull their animal
senses and talents is something you'd have to think hard to explain.


> Since I am very new to shadowrun I am asking you to help
> me figure out how these cyberwares could be altered, so that a were
> could have titanium bone lacing and smartlinks.

Ask your Gamemaster. Either he/she will let you use the alterations, or
not.. If so, he/she will probably help you work it out.

If it was my campaign, I wouldn't let you run that character, especially as
a starting player. It's too powerful, and it's tough to get a grasp for the
rules and role-playing concepts when many of them don't apply to your
character. But it's your Gamemaster's decision, not yours or mine.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Suppose Euphoria is a state with
My opinions are my opinions. | 'n' cities..."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - Proof in CS 3158
Message no. 12
From: Kevin Dean Knight <SwrdKnght@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 11:15:01 -0400
Due to their magical nature, I would say Shapechangers could not have any
cyberwear...
Message no. 13
From: "Brian A. Stewart" <bstewart@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:29:52 -0700
>Hi,
> I am very new to shadowrun and decided to create a Were
>creature
>Thanks,
> Ryan
You are walking dangerous ground with this one. My group tried to run
shapeshifters once (as per SR2) and it did not work very well. The
shapeshifters are more animal than human, and cybertech wasn't design to fit
shapeshifters. We created a new race of Werecreatures/Shapeshifters (i.e.
metahuman), and created new types of cyberware for them. I have no idea
where this information is at the present time, if you are interested I will
try to find it and post it (no promises). Also, I beleive someone on the
net made mention of werecreatures caused by lycanthropy. They may have
additional information for you.

Enjoy,
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Pa
lm speaks red to bent back,
Till flesh answers with angry words.
And worlds crumble,
And children scream,
And footsteps play alien keys;
In the hollow night.
Behind family doors, the eyes close.

-BAS (excerpt from Footsteps Play Alien Keys)
bstewart@***.uug.arizona.edu
Message no. 14
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 11:50:20 -0400
On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, Will wrote:

> I haven't read the NAGEE's, so I don't know if it's there or not, but
> a couple of months ago "Ivy" posted some stuff on Were-beings. I've
> uploaded most of it and if there is enough interrest I'll write it out
> and post it.

Aaacckckck! Regurgitated Ivy posts! As if the first time wasn't
enough...

Marc
Message no. 15
From: Vincent Hammond <Beeny13@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:50:39 -0400
werecreatures don't necessarily start out as an animal and then become
werewolves later. have you ever read white wolf's werewolf. i think that it
is very good ideas in there. theres 3 breeds of werewolves in there. homid
are the result of a human and werewolf mating it results in something born as
a human but around puberty they first change. lupus is wolf and werewolf
mating, same thing except they start out as wolves. and metis are the
deformed offspring of 2 werewolves getting together. i could see some homids
getting cyberwere, but i think that the first time they shifted all of their
huge stuff like adamantium bone-lacing might really fuck the werecreature
over and hurt him bad and force him to spend much time to heal up massive
wounds
Message no. 16
From: Vincent Hammond <Beeny13@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:57:32 -0400
i think they could get away easily with bioware.
Message no. 17
From: Will Cottrell <UGCOTTRE@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:18:29 EDT
Vincent Hammond wrote:
> i think they could get away easily with bioware.

I agree as the bioware would be just as affected by the lycanthropy in
the blood system that they would transform with the human.

$.01 worth,
Will
Message no. 18
From: Stacker <j-stark@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 10:10:43 -0500
I currently am running a campaign that includes one were creature
(a tiger). The question of cyberware came up and we decided that a were
could only have bioware and the aura of the bioware (since it should be
slightly different than the character's) must be "attuned" to the
character's aura by a shaman of the were's animal form totem. Granted
this is process is kind of lengthy but it prevents a were from becoming
to powerful to quickly.

////////////////////////////////////////
| Josh Stark j-stark@***.cso.uiuc.edu |
| |
| A.K.A. Stacker |
////////////////////////////////////////

"I just took the liberty of bullshittin' ya" --- Elwood Blues
Message no. 19
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 04:48:14 -0700
Robert Watkins (bob@**.ntu.edu.au) wrote:

>But a spell, and an innate magical ability are different things. At the
>least, it would interfere with the change.

Since were's are a seperate race, this is moot, but I'd say that both the
spell and the transformation are _magical_ abilities, and if the essence
has been paid, then it would transform right along with bones, muscles, and
internal organs.

>They don't... shape shifters are their own species, and not a victim of
>some disease.

I stand corrected then.

Later

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 20
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:58:07 GMT
My wife plays a leopard shapeshifter who is heavily cybered. Although she
ditched the wired reflexes (who needs'em when you're a leopard?) she then
upped her rig to Level III. A leopard makes a *killer* fighter pilot...
long careful stalk and sudden attack is pure Richtofen and ties in with the
"80% of shot-down pilots never saw what hit them".

We did derive "different" rules for shapeshifters: it depends whether you're
a "magical" shapeshifter (i.e. from the book) or a "genetic" one
(rarer,
older, and much less common: also around a long time before the Awakening).
A shameless house rule because we agreed the book rules were too powerful.

Our PC shapeshifters don't regenerate per se: they shift their damage across
to Stun. If you go into overdamage in Stun, you risk death by cardiac arrest
or hyperthermia.

Why? Because your body is continually regenerating any damage. But the more
damage you take, the higher your metabolism goes: to the point where your
body temperature can reach lethal limits, or your heart gives out.

So although they're tough, they're not invincible: and the allergy to
silver stays. Where do they come from? They can be born in either shape,
and generally transform in later life: puberty is common, but it can take
until the late twenties to manifest. (Hence a human PC metamorphosing...)

Cyber is obviously permitted, but you need to supercool the body (to retard
the healing process) and use extreme care in implantation (otherwise the
transformation can damage tissue). The reasoning needs to be well explained,
too.

And, anyone wanting to play one of these had better be prepared to role-play
the drawbacks, and find out a lot about the animal in question to mimic
its habits. Even as a human Lilith has been known to hide on top of
wardrobes... (Leopards like to lair high up). It's certainly not for
novice players.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 21
From: Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:17:25 -0500
This brings up another interesting question though...
What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
vampirism?

Kilroy
Message no. 22
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 19:47:25 -0500
>
> This brings up another interesting question though...
> What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
> vampirism?
>
> Kilroy
>
This question went around a month or two ago in rec.games.frp.cyber. The
upshot was, most people thought cyber and regeneration were incompatable, some
thought it would all fall out when they went mist form, etc.
The way I do it, Is just reduce the critters maximum essence by however much
Cyber it has. This would make them antsy about eating regularly to keep thier
essence up near max so that they're not so vulnerable to drain from other
vampires. I might also increase the difficulty of regeneration, particularlly
if any bioware was damaged by the killing blow.(say, a regenaration test for
every damaged system).
The combination of extreme combat power and more than slight paranoi that a
cybered vampire would have would make them very dangerous. At least they are
not dual natured. By the way, a magically active vampires magic rating does
not change, right?
Sebastian
aka
Mongoose
Message no. 23
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 04:58:52 -0400
Kilroy wrote:

>This brings up another interesting question though...
>What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
>vampirism?
>


The vampire "heals" all the cyberware out of its body. Since cyberware is
damage (hence the loss of essence) the vampires regeneration ability forces
the foreign objects out of the body and heals the body back up (a very
painful experience and one likely to drive the subject insane, at least for a
few hundred years). IMHO.

Duke
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 12:35:48 +0200
>This brings up another interesting question though...
>What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
>vampirism?

I'd say the cyberware drops out when he uses Mist Form, but the bioware
transforms along with the rest of his meat.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's the bald man's dream to grow hair, baby
Geek Code v3.0: GS/AT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5 X R+++>? tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial
Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 25
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 14:53:06 -0700
Duke (DukeDragon@***.com) wrote:

>The vampire "heals" all the cyberware out of its body. Since cyberware is
>damage (hence the loss of essence) the vampires regeneration ability forces
>the foreign objects out of the body and heals the body back up (a very
>painful experience and one likely to drive the subject insane, at least for a
>few hundred years). IMHO.

Well, I figured that a person who already was cybered would become a vampire
at their current essence level.

And vampire/street sam gangers make the perfect opponent for a troll street
samurai who hardly ever gets to fight because of the style of our gaming
group (everyone else was built for stealth and subtlety). :) He ruined his
dikoted axe killing that vampire.

Later


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 26
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 19:55:17 -0500
>
> >This brings up another interesting question though...
> >What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
> >vampirism?
>
> I'd say the cyberware drops out when he uses Mist Form, but the bioware
> transforms along with the rest of his meat.
>
>
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> It's the bald man's dream to grow hair, baby
> Geek Code v3.0: GS/AT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+
> PE Y PGP- t(+) 5 X R+++>? tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial
> Shadowrun Guru :)
>
What about the mist form spell? Does it work that way too, or are its
capabilities or mechanics different?
Message no. 27
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 20:05:22 -0500
>
> Kilroy wrote:
>
> >This brings up another interesting question though...
> >What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
> >vampirism?
>
> The vampire "heals" all the cyberware out of its body. Since cyberware is
> damage (hence the loss of essence) the vampires regeneration ability forces
> the foreign objects out of the body and heals the body back up (a very
> painful experience and one likely to drive the subject insane, at least for a
> few hundred years). IMHO.
>
> Duke
>
Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
aplies after deadly physical damage. Cyber implants cause no physical damage
(except surgery damage), so regeneration would not come into play. Besides,
cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)
sebastian
Message no. 28
From: 293/Douglas Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:03:00 +0000
On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> > >
> > >This brings up another interesting question though...
> > >What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
> > >vampirism?
> > >
> >
> > I'd say the cyberware drops out when he uses Mist Form, but the bioware
> > transforms along with the rest of his meat.
> >
>
> What about the mist form spell? Does it work that way too, or are its
> capabilities or mechanics different?
>

Exactly.

I think you guys are neglecting something. The critter's natural ability
(ie. mist form, shapechange, etc...) may be magical in nature, but it IS
a "natural" ability for it. The Mist Form and like spells only MIMIC
these powers. I would think that the spells are designed around a more
generalized effect.

For example; When a vampire uses his mist form ability, it affects only him
because that is it's purpose. However, a Mist Form spell (assuming it can be
used on others) will affect the target NO MATTER WHO IT IS. If the target
happens to have cyberware, it still works (if the spell succedes; don't forget
those success tests).

I hope my ranting makes some sense, I'm not exactly coherent right now.
Well, thats my 2 cents. (actual value about .000005 cents)

Doug "Enigma" Miller
Message no. 29
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:52:21 +0200
>> >This brings up another interesting question though...
>> >What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
>> >vampirism?
>>
>> I'd say the cyberware drops out when he uses Mist Form, but the bioware
>> transforms along with the rest of his meat.
>
>What about the mist form spell? Does it work that way too, or are its
>capabilities or mechanics different?

Mist form spell? I can't recall seeing that (please don't tell me I designed
it myself :), but I'd say "Why not? Sounds good."


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Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:52:30 +0200
> Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
>aplies after deadly physical damage.

Beg to differ... The power specifically says that "If the wounds do not
cause death, the wounds vanish at the beginning of the next Combat Turn." So
inflict a Light Wound on a vampire, and it loses that about 3 seconds later.

>Besides, cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)

But is can make for fun roleplaying if you've got PC vampires :)


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Message no. 31
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 22:49:45 +0930
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
> aplies after deadly physical damage. Cyber implants cause no physical damage
> (except surgery damage), so regeneration would not come into play. Besides,
> cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)

No... Regeneration takes place IMMEDIATELY upon receiving a wound. In the
novels, especially, images of regenerating creatures healing wounds as fast
as they are made are quite common.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 32
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:33:47 -0400
William wrote:
>
>Well, I figured that a person who already was cybered would become a vampire
>at their current essence level.

My thinking on this was:
The Samurai pays for the cyberware with essence. When he turns Vamp he can
just go out and drain essence from some plain slag and be a cyber vamp with a
very high essence (greater than 6 even). Seemed like too much of an
advantage to me so for the PC vampire we had, I said no cyber/bio ware with
the my previous justification.
You want a real killer monster just make your Vamp a mage, and as long as
he keeps his essence very high (close to 12) his magic rating is
correspondingly high, and he can cast some killer spells (justify this by
saying he/she is very old and has been studying magic for a very, very long
time).
But like you said the main goal is to make sure everyone in the game gets a
chance to play and have a good time so whatever it takes as long as the GM is
consistant.

Duke
Message no. 33
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:34:01 -0400
sebastian wrote:

> Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
>aplies after deadly physical damage. Cyber implants cause no physical
damage
>(except surgery damage), so regeneration would not come into play. Besides,
>cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)

Regeneration: "...<stuff about deadly damage check>... Otherwise, wounds
still hurt the being, giving penalties to actions as for normal characters,
but if the wounds do not cause death, the wounds vanish at the beginning of
the next Combat Turn." SR2 pg 219
So every time you roll initiative you are fighting a fresh vampire. A
regenerating creature with cyber to allow it to have a very high initiative
strikes me as a bit unbalanced. But as I said before whatever fits your
game.

Duke
Message no. 34
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:55:19 -0500
>
> sebastian wrote:
>
> > Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
> >aplies after deadly physical damage. Cyber implants cause no physical
> damage
> >(except surgery damage), so regeneration would not come into play. Besides,
> >cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)
>
> Regeneration: "...<stuff about deadly damage check>... Otherwise, wounds
> still hurt the being, giving penalties to actions as for normal characters,
> but if the wounds do not cause death, the wounds vanish at the beginning of
> the next Combat Turn." SR2 pg 219
> So every time you roll initiative you are fighting a fresh vampire. A
> regenerating creature with cyber to allow it to have a very high initiative
> strikes me as a bit unbalanced. But as I said before whatever fits your
> game.
>
> Duke
>
Wow! Iliked the descriptions in paranormals book, and read thos- they left
that bit out. Nasty! Still, vampires are'nt that fast- some meta sub types
get no reaction boost. I'd let the cyber stay in an infected samurai, just to
ad variety (magic casting vampires are pedictable).
Sebastian
Message no. 35
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:02:52 -0500
>
> > Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
> >aplies after deadly physical damage.
>
> Beg to differ... The power specifically says that "If the wounds do not
> cause death, the wounds vanish at the beginning of the next Combat Turn." So
> inflict a Light Wound on a vampire, and it loses that about 3 seconds later.
>
> >Besides, cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)
>
> But is can make for fun roleplaying if you've got PC vampires :)
>
Fun for who? yeach, I would not enjoy bieng that PC- you have lost control
over your body. Might as well be an NPC.
By the way, sorry about the authorotavely quoted rules. The parnaormals gude
leaves the bit about regeneration in combat out.
sebastian
Message no. 36
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:48:07 -0400
Sebastian wrote:

> Still, vampires are'nt that fast- some meta sub types
>get no reaction boost. I'd let the cyber stay in an infected samurai, just
to
>ad variety (magic casting vampires are pedictable).

I believe I could toast any party with 1 non-mage, essence 10 vampire. The
possible scenarios makes my mouth water!! I would have to rate vampires as
the second most powerful creature behind only the dragons.

Duke
Message no. 37
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:55:28 GMT
Sebastian Wiers writes

> >
> > This brings up another interesting question though...
> > What happens to all a samurai's cyber/bioware if he's infected with
> > vampirism?
> >
> > Kilroy
> >
> This question went around a month or two ago in rec.games.frp.cyber. The
> upshot was, most people thought cyber and regeneration were incompatable, some
> thought it would all fall out when they went mist form, etc.
The reasonable way for regeneration to work is to set the body back
as the DNA pattern says it should be, and that is without cyber,
don't care if you paid essence for it. For game interest though GM's
may want to allow cybered vampires or they are limited to 2D6
initative unless magically active, ok they regenerate but if each
round the sam blows it down the moment it gets up its not going far.

> The way I do it, Is just reduce the critters maximum essence by
> however much
> Cyber it has. This would make them antsy about eating regularly to keep thier
> essence up near max so that they're not so vulnerable to drain from other
> vampires. I might also increase the difficulty of regeneration, particularlly
> if any bioware was damaged by the killing blow.(say, a regenaration test for
> every damaged system).
> The combination of extreme combat power and more than slight paranoi that a
> cybered vampire would have would make them very dangerous. At least they are
> not dual natured. By the way, a magically active vampires magic rating does
> not change, right?
magic rating = essence round down so essence 12 = magic 12 +
initation of course. Not funny, query, are you in LOS, oh you must be
in the fireball then. - after all i regenerate the drain.

Yes you could vamp a dragon, no don't do it either is very hard on
its own. (well not without a good plot, magic 24+ grade and 24M
breath weapons with ranges up to 576m (24*24) are a little nasty)

> Sebastian
> aka
> Mongoose
>

Mark
Message no. 38
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:59:52 GMT
> From: Robert Watkins writes

> Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> > Vampires heal; damage just like mortals, in shadowrun. Regeneration only
> > aplies after deadly physical damage. Cyber implants cause no physical damage
> > (except surgery damage), so regeneration would not come into play. Besides,
> > cyber regecting vampires just strike me as silly. :)
>
> No... Regeneration takes place IMMEDIATELY upon receiving a wound. In the
> novels, especially, images of regenerating creatures healing wounds as fast
> as they are made are quite common.
>
The book SR2 version is all damage at end of round (initative 0) you
have to make a test if and only if on 10+ boxes of physical damage.
As described in the novels it happens continuously and that is much
more realistic, i have had it suggested you play that as 1 box off
each monitor at each free action - yes big nasty spell in 24, all
drain regerated by 14 when you get to go again, but even at that a
party could still gang up on the critter till someone gets to go
while its on the floor and blow its head off, auto central nevous
system hit does not regenerate - oh dear.

> --
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Mark
Message no. 39
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:46:06 +0200
>> But is can make for fun roleplaying if you've got PC vampires :)
>>
>Fun for who? yeach, I would not enjoy bieng that PC- you have lost control
>over your body. Might as well be an NPC.

Officially, you become an NPC if you're infected by HMHVV. Whether or not
you would in my game will depend on the situation and mostly the player, I
think. At least if you allow vampire PCs, if they've got cyberware they have
something to think about :)


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Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 40
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberwere on were-creatures
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:24:11 -0500
>
> Sebastian wrote:
>
> > Still, vampires are'nt that fast- some meta sub types
> >get no reaction boost. I'd let the cyber stay in an infected samurai, just
> to
> >ad variety (magic casting vampires are pedictable).
>
> I believe I could toast any party with 1 non-mage, essence 10 vampire. The
> possible scenarios makes my mouth water!! I would have to rate vampires as
> the second most powerful creature behind only the dragons.
>
> Duke
>
Vampire, probably. Try a banshee- No attribute or reaction boost, no immunity
normal weapons. The fear power, and threat dice, as well as some skills and
regeneration, would make it close, but the banshee had better get them one at
a time.

Sebastian

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