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Message no. 1
From: chipeloi@***.nl (chipeloi@***.nl)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:31:20 +0100
Hi.
One of my players is going to play a human cyberzombie.
She has taken the asssence <- ? aura skill.
Does this alow her to see astral space or only aura's, and more importanly does this alow
her to see spirits and other things that are astral?.

I know her quite wel and i know she is not a munchkin, most of her cyber she takes is more

the: "O cool what does it do idea" then the i'm going to build a walking tank.
She is also one of the only ppl i would alow playing one.


But to be one the safe side, what are the thing i should keep in mind.
I know the following:
Cyberzombie's polute astral space .
Spirits don't like them (toxics might love them).
People don't like them either.
animals don't want to be near them.


Anything i missed?.

Chipeloi
Message no. 2
From: owen@***.edu.au (Owen McKerrow)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:10:00 +1100
---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
You should make sure she roleplays the "You are dead" bit. No essence,
no connection with the real world. Also memories. Does she have any ?
Or only brief flashes. Cyberzombies also require someone to have
actually made them and keep them bound. So effectively she would be
under someone's control.


On Tuesday, November 18, 2003, at 12:31 PM, chipeloi@***.nl wrote:

> Hi.
> One of my players is going to play a human cyberzombie.
> She has taken the asssence <- ? aura skill.
> Does this alow her to see astral space or only aura's, and more
> importanly does this alow
> her to see spirits and other things that are astral?.
>
> I know her quite wel and i know she is not a munchkin, most of her
> cyber she takes is more
> the: "O cool what does it do idea" then the i'm going to build a
> walking tank.
> She is also one of the only ppl i would alow playing one.
>
>
> But to be one the safe side, what are the thing i should keep in mind.
> I know the following:
> Cyberzombie's polute astral space .
> Spirits don't like them (toxics might love them).
> People don't like them either.
> animals don't want to be near them.
>
>
> Anything i missed?.
>
> Chipeloi
>
>
>
>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
People who prefer typing to pointing then seem to prefer acronyms to
save typing :-)
-Denis Stanton, On people using Command Line Interfaces

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Message no. 3
From: nightgyr@*********.com.au (GreyWolf)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:16:07 +1100
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> You should make sure she roleplays the "You are dead" bit. No essence,
> no connection with the real world. Also memories. Does she have any ?
> Or only brief flashes. Cyberzombies also require someone to have
> actually made them and keep them bound. So effectively she would be
> under someone's control.

An interesting idea would be to let her play a 'spirit' who is bound to control the
cyberzombie? then you could have gone rogue or maybe the creators think the zombie was
destroyed and somehow it got out of mother russia (or wherever) and over to seattle..
etc.. ? who knows... you dont have to stick strictly to the book description. Gosh the
novels never did.. and when has fun ever been bound by the rp rules?

*grin*

GreyWolf
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Message no. 4
From: metis76@*****.com (Grey)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:40:36 -0800 (PST)
--- chipeloi@***.nl wrote:
> She has taken the asssence <- ? aura skill.
> Does this alow her to see astral space or only
> aura's, and more importanly does this alow
> her to see spirits and other things that are
> astral?.

Only awakened (magically active) characters can see
the astral. She would have no use for the skill, as
her having negative essence would kill any magic
ability she may have had.

====~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Message no. 5
From: bluedragon7@***.ch (bluedragon7)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:49:23 +0100
> From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
> [mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com]On Behalf Of Grey
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:41 AM
> To: Shadowrun Discussion

> Only awakened (magically active) characters can see
> the astral. She would have no use for the skill, as
> her having negative essence would kill any magic
> ability she may have had.
cyberzombies are dual, therefore can see the astral and can learn aura
reading

cya bluedragon7
Message no. 6
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:37:04 +0100
Am Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:49:23 +0100 hat bluedragon7 <bluedragon7@***.ch>
geschrieben:

> cyberzombies are dual, therefore can see the astral and can learn aura
> reading

Most importantly, Cyberzmbies are dead. That is why a memeory inducer is
needed to keep them alive (M&M, the chapter about Cybermancy). And since
Essence = Magic (SR3 core rules, MitS), a cyberzombie cannot use anything
remotely magical.

And the fact that the Cyberzombie is dead, can be seen in astral space,
but the zombie itself is NOT magically active.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 7
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:56:25 +0100
According to Grey, on Tuesday 18 November 2003 07:40 the word on the street
was...

> Only awakened (magically active) characters can see
> the astral. She would have no use for the skill, as
> her having negative essence would kill any magic
> ability she may have had.

M&M specifically mentions that cyberzombies can take Aura Reading skill,
which gives them the ability to assense. Without it, they're astrally
active but "blind" on the astral plane.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't you know you know what's right?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:23:43 +0100
Am Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:56:25 +0100 hat Gurth <gurth@******.nl> geschrieben:


> M&M specifically mentions that cyberzombies can take Aura Reading skill,
> which gives them the ability to assense. Without it, they're astrally
> active but "blind" on the astral plane.

Hm, isn't that a breach (or at least bending) of the magic rules in
Shadowrun? SR3 and MitS both mention that a magic character needs Essence
to use magic, but a cymberzombie doesn't have any Essence left over.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 9
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:23:59 +0100
On Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003, at 10:56 Europe/Paris, Gurth wrote:

>
> M&M specifically mentions that cyberzombies can take Aura Reading
> skill,
> which gives them the ability to assense. Without it, they're astrally
> active but "blind" on the astral plane.
>
>
>
Are you saying that by taking the Aura Reading skill a cyberzombie now
gains the ability to see astral auras? Is this a special benefit
because one is a cyber zombie. I would not normally think that by
learning Aura Reading one should gain the ability to see astral auras.
Or are cyberzombies dual-natured?

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
Message no. 10
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:27:15 +1000
>> M&M specifically mentions that cyberzombies can take Aura Reading skill,
>> which gives them the ability to assense. Without it, they're astrally
>> active but "blind" on the astral plane.

>Hm, isn't that a breach (or at least bending) of the magic rules in
>Shadowrun? SR3 and MitS both mention that a magic character needs Essence
>to use magic, but a cymberzombie doesn't have any Essence left over.

Think about it this way...
The cyberzombie is duel-natured. Therefore it exsist on both planes. And
the rules state that duel natured creatures can see astral. What I want to
know is can the CZ tell the difference between the two worlds and can it
defend itself astrally without using physical movments?

Fresh Company Man: "OH MY GOD!!! THE ZOMBIE'S FREAKING OUT!!!"

Grizzle Wage-mage: "Nahh... He's just being messed with by a spirit."
Message no. 11
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:05 +0100
Am Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:27:15 +1000 hat Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3)
<valeuj@*****.navy.mil> geschrieben:


> Think about it this way...
> The cyberzombie is duel-natured. Therefore it exsist on both planes.
> And
> the rules state that duel natured creatures can see astral. What I want
> to
> know is can the CZ tell the difference between the two worlds and can it
> defend itself astrally without using physical movments?
[SNIP]

I'd say: Depends. If the Cyberzombie was somebody used to seeing the
astral plane (like a former mage), it can tell the difference. Otherwise
it depends on the Magic Theory roll asked by the GM (Hm, TN 8, I'd say).

And concerning the defense: I think so, as a mundane-spirit fight is done
via Charisma (IIRC).
I refrain from generalizing that. It depends on the effect that provides
most shock to the players in the group. And I think that a cyborg gone
nuts invokes fears that otherwise require Dagon or Hastur to be summoned.
;)

--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 12
From: zadoc@***.neu.edu (Damian)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:40:54 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

> > M&M specifically mentions that cyberzombies can take Aura Reading skill,
> > which gives them the ability to assense. Without it, they're astrally
> > active but "blind" on the astral plane.
>
> Hm, isn't that a breach (or at least bending) of the magic rules in
> Shadowrun? SR3 and MitS both mention that a magic character needs Essence
> to use magic, but a cymberzombie doesn't have any Essence left over.

In a way, isn't a cyberzombie itself a bending of the the magic and
essence rules in Shadowrun? After all, the rules say that a character with
no Essence is dead, which, generally, means you're not very playable. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork
and the hammer of not bickering."
Message no. 13
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:52:02 +0100
Am Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:40:54 -0500 (EST) hat Damian <zadoc@***.neu.edu>
geschrieben:


> In a way, isn't a cyberzombie itself a bending of the the magic and
> essence rules in Shadowrun? After all, the rules say that a character
> with
> no Essence is dead, which, generally, means you're not very playable. :)

Of course they are. That is why only five (or so) Delta Clinics are able
to perform a) the mundane operations and b) the Cybermantic Rituals (TM by
Aztechnology: The Future Today!) required for a cyberzombie.

Well I have never used one yet, and haven't encountered one neither while
playing.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 14
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:04:04 -0500
Cyberzombies are dual-natured. By definition, this means they can perceive
astral space.

However, the ability is not natural for them. Hence, they need the Aura
Reading skill to make sense of what they see.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 15
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:16:14 +0100
According to Scott Harrison, on Tuesday 18 November 2003 11:23 the word on
the street was...

> Are you saying that by taking the Aura Reading skill a cyberzombie now
> gains the ability to see astral auras?

Yes; see "Dual Nature" on page 57 of M&M.

> Is this a special benefit
> because one is a cyber zombie. I would not normally think that by
> learning Aura Reading one should gain the ability to see astral auras.
> Or are cyberzombies dual-natured?

They are. In SRII (by the rules in Cybertechnology), they were dual-natured
but had no way at all of seeing astral space. M&M now does give them this
option.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: chipeloi@***.nl (chipeloi@***.nl)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:37:15 +0100
On 18 Nov 2003 at 19:16, Gurth wrote:

> >cyberzombies dual-natured?
>
> They are. In SRII (by the rules in Cybertechnology), they were dual-natured
> but had no way at all of seeing astral space. M&M now does give them this
> option.
>

I'm going to alow her to see aura's but not astral space.
But it stil does not answer my question do spirts and elementals have aura's?.
Message no. 17
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:53:37 +0100
> I'm going to alow her to see aura's but not astral space.
> But it stil does not answer my question do spirts and elementals have
> aura's?.

Of course they do. Every living being has an aura. (and some dead
beings such as cyberzombies have auras too)

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 18
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:57:09 +1100 (EST)
--- "Timothy J. Lanza" <tjlanza@************.com>
wrote: >
>
> Cyberzombies are dual-natured. By definition, this
> means they can perceive
> astral space.
>
> However, the ability is not natural for them. Hence,
> they need the Aura
> Reading skill to make sense of what they see.

Could this be another situation for Cyber Zombies
getting lost In the details ;)

GZ - "Look at all the pretty Pyschodelic colours".
System Error: system shock, IM Stimulator malfunction,
critical....

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
Message no. 19
From: danturek@*******.com (D. T)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:21:10 -0500
Damian Sharp of Real Life: |

>In a way, isn't a cyberzombie itself a bending of the the magic and
>essence rules in Shadowrun? After all, the rules say that a character with
>no Essence is dead, which, generally, means you're not very playable. :)

A dead thing would have 0 Essence.
Certain "undead" in SR can exist at 0 Essence, but usually go into feeding
frenzy mode.
A cyberzombie is more like a magic item than a person, and with a negative
essence is more like some form of toxic or polluted magic item. Hm, wonder
if they have imp and gremlin problems :)
Oh, and don't forget the terminal cancer they all get (unless that changed).

_________________________________________________________________
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by service area.)
Message no. 20
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:50:51 +0100
According to chipeloi@***.nl, on Tuesday 18 November 2003 23:37 the word on
the street was...

> I'm going to alow her to see aura's but not astral space.

Seeing auras _is_ seeing astral space :)

> But it stil does not answer my question do spirts and elementals have
> aura's?.

I'll try to explain this bit more fully on Saturday, but basically,
_everything_ has an aura. Living things have much stronger auras than
non-living things, but assensing is the ability to "see" auras -- if you
say you're going to allow Hilde's character to see auras, that means
she'll be able to see astral space just like magicians can, except she'll
see it permanently without being able to switch it off.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:11:37 +0100
> Oh, and don't forget the terminal cancer they all get (unless that
> changed).

Well, it's been changed a little. (M&M p59) During the initial
cybermantic ritual, roll 2D6 (secretly). If the result is less than
2*abs(desired Essence), the cyberzombie will die after 10D6 months.
There are a couple of mods to this (high Body...), but basically that's
it.
It's not explicitely said, but of course the 2D6 roll must be recorded
somewhere: if the CZ's essence is reduced beyond the threshold
afterwards, cancer will appear. Later. (for example, Rob Cyberzombie
got his Essence to -1 during the initial ritual. He rolled 4 on the
2D6. For the time being he's safe -- if such a thing can be said of a
CZ -- but he wants more cyber. He brings his Essence down to -5... Too
bad.)

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 22
From: chipeloi@***.nl (chipeloi@***.nl)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:14:48 +0100
On 19 Nov 2003 at 10:50, Gurth wrote:

>>
> I'll try to explain this bit more fully on Saturday, but basically,
> _everything_ has an aura. Living things have much stronger auras than
> non-living things, but assensing is the ability to "see" auras -- if you
> say you're going to allow Hilde's character to see auras, that means
> she'll be able to see astral space just like magicians can, except she'll
> see it permanently without being able to switch it off.
>

wel this is where we think differently, if she looks at a person and concentrates (uses
the
aura reading skill).
she can "read" someone's aura it will Not allow her to see everyone's aura (as i
think is
meant by the rules) and as such does not see the astral plain, might have to work on it a
bit
but that's the idea.
She does see flashes of astral space (probably after some very high success or all 1's) .
Message no. 23
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: cyberzombie and astral sight
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:04:02 +0100
According to chipeloi@***.nl, on Wednesday 19 November 2003 21:14 the word
on the street was...

> wel this is where we think differently, if she looks at a person and
> concentrates (uses the aura reading skill).
> she can "read" someone's aura it will Not allow her to see everyone's
> aura (as i think is meant by the rules) and as such does not see the
> astral plain, might have to work on it a bit but that's the idea.

Not sure that's a good idea. What if she wants to try and assense the
general area, to see _if_ anyone is present on the astral plane?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you don't ask questions then you don't know why
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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