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Message no. 1
From: Jonas Bille <dko3725@***.CYBERCITY.DK>
Subject: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:32:44 +0100
If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his =
magic ?

If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
but what happens to the rest of it ?

I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral =
perception,
that would mean he could defend himself !

Any thought on this, or have I missed something in Cybertehcnology ?

GFC
Jonas Bille
j.bille@*****.dk
Message no. 2
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 03:43:45 PST
>If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
=
>magic ?
>
>If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
>But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
>but what happens to the rest of it ?

AFAIK, He'd just lose the initial magic points. But if I spent all
that time taking my magic-user to a magic rating of ten, you'd better
believe I'd be pissed if he went back to a 4... I don't care what the
"bonuses" are...

>
>I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral =
>perception,
>that would mean he could defend himself !

No, that means he could *try* to defend himself. <EGMG>

>
>Any thought on this, or have I missed something in Cybertehcnology ?

I have a thought on this: I'm picturing a small person in
leiderhosen singing something about a lollipop guild... <G>


-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
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hate the word
As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee..."
-Shakespeare, Romeo & Juliet(Act I, scene I)
______________________________________________________
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Message no. 3
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:53:44 EST
In a message dated 98-03-28 05:37:54 EST, you write:

<< If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
magic ?

If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
but what happens to the rest of it ?

I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral
perception,
that would mean he could defend himself !

Any thought on this, or have I missed something in Cybertehcnology ? >>

Okay, there are several things about this which is going to sound munchkinish
(and does), but which I have put into the games here.

One, according to the rules (which are always an optional thing anyway), a
person's Magic Attribute is tied to their Essence attribute, and as soon as it
falls below 1 they lose all of their magic.

Two, with Geasa, and tossing the Essence rule from above out of the window,
one could have the same PAD (or whatever) could still have their magic and
could continue to initiate.

Now, I am also going to say why I allowed this to happen in the games, the
players were becoming somewhat powerful and tired of the normal run of the
mill opposition and so I tossed one of these beasties at them. You want to
talk about being frightened to death, though they thought the idea was cool
later on, especially once they found out how it was done.

For all intents in purposes, make this something for the NPC-dom, and give it
to the pcs only if they earn it, and I mean EARN it.

Mike
Message no. 4
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:55:36 EST
In a message dated 98-03-28 06:44:36 EST, you write:

<< If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
=
>magic ?
>
>If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
>But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
>but what happens to the rest of it ?

AFAIK, He'd just lose the initial magic points. But if I spent all
that time taking my magic-user to a magic rating of ten, you'd better
believe I'd be pissed if he went back to a 4... I don't care what the
"bonuses" are...

>
>I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral =
>perception,
>that would mean he could defend himself !

No, that means he could *try* to defend himself. <EGMG>

>
>Any thought on this, or have I missed something in Cybertehcnology ?

I have a thought on this: I'm picturing a small person in
leiderhosen singing something about a lollipop guild... <G>
>>

There is also something else too, this same cyberzombie mage could make their
IMS into a centering foci for themselves, and whenever they perform centering
tests they are helping to strengthen the tie between their spirit (soul) and
the physical body that remains.

Mike
Message no. 5
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:53:14 +0200
>If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
magic ?
>
>If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
>But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
>but what happens to the rest of it ?
>
>I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral
perception,
>that would mean he could defend himself !

IMO, all is gone... I think he loses his initial points first and when
they're reduced to 0, he can't benefit from initiation anymore and so magic
drops to 0.
Well.. That's just an explanation because I don't want it :)


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf.. Nor anyone.."
Tel : (France) 01-56-47-11-04
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 07:28:19 -0700
William Gallas wrote:
/
/ >If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
/ magic ?
/ >
/ >If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
/ >But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
/ >but what happens to the rest of it ?
/ >
/ >I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral
/ perception,
/ >that would mean he could defend himself !
/
/ IMO, all is gone... I think he loses his initial points first and when
/ they're reduced to 0, he can't benefit from initiation anymore and so magic
/ drops to 0.
/ Well.. That's just an explanation because I don't want it :)

Ditto. A level 4 initiate has an effective Magic of 10, but his
Magic is still 6, IMHO. If his Magic falls below 0 he loses his
magic, regardless of his level as an initiate.

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:18:50 -0500
At 11:32 AM 3/28/98 +0100, you wrote:
>If an initiated magician is made into a cyberzombie what happens to his
magic ?
>
>If he has magic 6 or less he will no doubt loose it all !
>But what if he has say magic 10? He looses 6 (as he looses essence)
>but what happens to the rest of it ?

When a magician's Essence reaches less than one, the magicians critical
link to the astral plane is destroyed. In other words, no more magic.
Even if the magician was initiated to Grade 100+.

I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying that the cyberzombie in
the Dragonheart Trilogy (Szeto's recent books) was a burned out mage. No
access to magic by himself.

Let's also remember the circumstances surrounding a cyberzombie; there's
the astral hazing, the target numbers for magic to affect the cyberzombie,
and so on, which would have to affect a cyberzombie magician (if we say,
for argument sake, there can be such a thing. Those things would certainly
impose a penalty for casting. Not to mention the fact that casting spells
requires a certain amount of focused attention, something cyberzombies
often have a hard time doing.

>I can picture a CZ former adept, who still has the power of astral
perception,
>that would mean he could defend himself !

Like I said, not going to happen. The cyberzombie is tough enough as it
is, I think, without making them spell-chuckers also.

Some people have mentioned that his might make for an interesting GM toy.
I have a few problems with that. First of all, I'm fundamentally opposed
to creating something that I, as GM, can have, but that players can't.
Just seems terribly unfair. I also think that there are much better ways
to stomp on your PCs, if that is what you want, without resorting to
creating monstrosities like magician cyberzombies.

I've never found that the single "superman" works; sure, they look good on
paper and they can do some butt-kicking, but the odds aren't in their
favor. While he has to split his efforts or concentrate on only one runner
at a time, in the meantime, all the other runners can focus in on a single
target. While they may not be a kick-ass one on one, when you can focus
mass firepower on a single point, it can be devestating.

Erik J.


"Oh, the silent helicopters and the men in black fatigues? They're just my
car pool to work."
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:01:36 -0700
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ I've never found that the single "superman" works; sure, they look good on
/ paper and they can do some butt-kicking, but the odds aren't in their
/ favor. While he has to split his efforts or concentrate on only one runner
/ at a time, in the meantime, all the other runners can focus in on a single
/ target. While they may not be a kick-ass one on one, when you can focus
/ mass firepower on a single point, it can be devestating.

Been there, done that. I have yet to create a "super" NPC that can
successfully challenge the PCs in combat. Either the NPC was to
powerful, and I had to start fudging die rolls (which I did because
it was my fault and not my intention), or the NPC was trashed within
*one* round. The line is so fine in this situation that it's almost
impossible to walk it. And even if you do get the numbers right one
lucky die roll for either side can throw things out of wack.

I much prefer to run "super NPC" combat encounters where the SNPC has
an assortment of goons to help him out. This way you can use an SNPC
that won't wipe out a PC with one blow, and the PCs can't ignore the
goons and the SNPC lasts a few rounds.

-David
--
"Belief is a truth held in the mind.
Faith is a fire in the heart."
- Joseph F. Newton
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 9
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:47:34 -0500
At 02:18 PM 3/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>When a magician's Essence reaches less than one, the magicians critical
>link to the astral plane is destroyed. In other words, no more magic.
>Even if the magician was initiated to Grade 100+.

I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere that 0 Essence prevents
one from having a magic attribute. Though that's easy enough to get around
if you want a justification for magicians not having magical abilities
post-cybermancy: CM involves binding the spirit to a body that would
otherwise die. This involves massive rituals, and some changes to said
spirit. That could -easily- sever one's natural connection to the astral.

>I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying that the cyberzombie in
>the Dragonheart Trilogy (Szeto's recent books) was a burned out mage. No
>access to magic by himself.

But did he have a Magic higher than his Essence prior to cybermancy? If
not (or if you don't know), then that example doesn't prove anything.

>Some people have mentioned that his might make for an interesting GM toy.
>I have a few problems with that. First of all, I'm fundamentally opposed
>to creating something that I, as GM, can have, but that players can't.
>Just seems terribly unfair. I also think that there are much better ways
>to stomp on your PCs, if that is what you want, without resorting to
>creating monstrosities like magician cyberzombies.

True. I'd think an Initiated physical adept would lose more than gained
from cybermancy. The cyber plus a few points of magic worth of cyber
really isn't as impressive as nine or so points of physical adept
abilities. And a magician or other adept with such a massive magic
attribute still prolly loses a lot by getting a lot of cyber, let alone
cybermancy...

losthalo
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:56:12 +1000
lasthalo writes:
>>When a magician's Essence reaches less than one, the magicians critical
>>link to the astral plane is destroyed. In other words, no more magic.
>>Even if the magician was initiated to Grade 100+.
>
>I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere that 0 Essence prevents
>one from having a magic attribute. Though that's easy enough to get around
>if you want a justification for magicians not having magical abilities
>post-cybermancy: CM involves binding the spirit to a body that would
>otherwise die. This involves massive rituals, and some changes to said
>spirit. That could -easily- sever one's natural connection to the astral.

It's in the BBB somewhere, I think... if a magician's Essence slips below 1
(not necessarily to 0, but say to 0.9), then they lose their connection to
the Astral plane. Of course, the BBB ignores initiation, so in that context,
an Essence of less than 1 implies a Magic Attribute of 0. But the wording of
_Essence_ below 1 implies that that's the key attribute (as there are other
ways of losing Magic (eg, get knocked around by Deadly wounds until you
reach 2 Magic, then get 3 Essence points of cyber put in you).

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 11
From: SCROSE <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:10:28 -0600
Erik Jameson wrote:

>
> Some people have mentioned that his might make for an interesting GM toy.
> I have a few problems with that. First of all, I'm fundamentally opposed
> to creating something that I, as GM, can have, but that players can't.
> Just seems terribly unfair. I also think that there are much better ways
> to stomp on your PCs, if that is what you want, without resorting to
> creating monstrosities like magician cyberzombies.

Use the idea JS used; a free spirt that is trapped inside the
cyberzombie. It's a very nasty combination however this is something
that should be in the game masters hands not the players. First of all
it's two merged into one and very powerful... INO the GM can and should
be albe to use and do things that the players can't. Look at
cyberzombies in and of themselves post PC's are not going to be albe to
afford it even if they can find a delta clinic to do the work... :)

> I've never found that the single "superman" works; sure, they look good on
> paper and they can do some butt-kicking, but the odds aren't in their
> favor. While he has to split his efforts or concentrate on only one runner
> at a time, in the meantime, all the other runners can focus in on a single
> target. While they may not be a kick-ass one on one, when you can focus
> mass firepower on a single point, it can be devestating.

Depends on a great deal and even if they defeat the above cyberzombie
someone is going to pretty irate with about those things are really
expensive to create.
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:16:41 +1000
SCROSE writes:
>> I've never found that the single "superman" works; sure, they look good
on
>> paper and they can do some butt-kicking, but the odds aren't in their
>> favor. While he has to split his efforts or concentrate on only one
runner
>> at a time, in the meantime, all the other runners can focus in on a
single
>> target. While they may not be a kick-ass one on one, when you can focus
>> mass firepower on a single point, it can be devestating.
>
>Depends on a great deal and even if they defeat the above cyberzombie
>someone is going to pretty irate with about those things are really
>expensive to create.


Someone would have been bloody stupid to send in just one. Like all combat
troops, cyberzombies have their effectiveness increased in a
greater-than-linear scale by having friends (e.g. 2 cyberzombies, working
together, are more than twice as effective as one cyberzombie alone).

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 13
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberzombie creation
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:49:59 +0000
> Use the idea JS used; a free spirt that is trapped inside the
> cyberzombie. It's a very nasty combination however this is something

JS? Looks like Jon is at it again!

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie

Further Reading

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