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Message no. 1
From: Sven De Herdt sven.deherdt@******.com
Subject: Damage to body parts and called shot
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:36:39 +0100
Probably this question has passed the list already, but I didn't really find
the time to search all archive message, so her I go:

Any suggestion/houserules on called shots, I have some ideas of my own but
they don't really seem to work. Well..., they work fine for the PCs off
course but when I would use them for the NPCs, well then the treat rating
game would become highly deadly without the players able to do anything
about it (read: one shot, one kill!). And I still believe players should
have at least a chance to get out of a hostile situation (no matter how tiny
it may be).
fi. SR3 states a called shot applies a +4 TN (IIRC), but would you handle
the same modifier when someone is aiming at the opponent's arm than he is
aiming at the opponent's eye?

What about damage caused to a body part?
How do you treat damage done to a specific body part, if you follow the
rules you would just mark boxes on the condition monitor. But that would
mean that damage done to a leg could actually kill you... I'll give you an
example of something that happened to one of my players recently (short
version):
The elf character was put in prison and there one of the guards shot her to
the knee to keep her from escaping and she was left with a serious wound.
Later on the troll took a 10 ft fall and the elf decided to help her friend
and to catch him before he hit the ground. She missed seriously ... the
heavy weight troll landed with his full body weight on her knee.
The knee snapped and took overflow damage according to the condition
monitor.

Off course I didn't decided to let the character die because the only damage
she suffered was her knee being totally messed up by now. She got her leg
fixed by DocWagon, but didn't really get a replacement (she being an adept
and all that kind of stuff).
I ruled that the overflow damaged had caused some permanent damage and
probably left her with a small limb, so I gave her some stress points on
quickness and strength (for whenever she pushes her knee to the limit).

This not really being cannon (I think) I was wondering if you had any
ideas/houserules on this subject.

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 2
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Damage to body parts and called shot
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 11:07:25 EST
<<Any suggestion/houserules on called shots, I have some ideas of my own but
they don't really seem to work. Well..., they work fine for the PCs off
course but when I would use them for the NPCs, well then the treat rating
game would become highly deadly without the players able to do anything
about it (read: one shot, one kill!). And I still believe players should
have at least a chance to get out of a hostile situation (no matter how tiny
it may be). >>


I don't have an answer for your bigger question, but for this one I'll say that the way I
usually run it is dependent on the skill levels of the players. If I think they can handle
gaming in a situation where they come near to death, I'll do a called shot to the head by
a sniper then flub the roll on purpose so they can spend some time figuring out who was
trying to kill them and why. As for NPCs in a firefight, I go by the old Hollywood
rule...they can't shoot for shit! I mean I'll roll it all regular and everything, but to
keep it from getting overwhelming there won't be any called shots (those are reserved for
major NPCs, like the aforementioned sniper) and the rule of 1 usually results in jammed
guns all over the place. (especially if it's just a street gang picking a fight)

For the other question about taking lethal damage to say, a knee or whatever, my personal
ruling on that would be that it wouldn't kill them, but the limb that was targeted would
become useless. There would have to be amputation/replacement/whathaveyou. Not to mention
the shock would slow them way the hell down and probably make them pass out. Either let
that be automatic or do a GM roll for it - or just be kind and say they didn't pass out,
if you're feeling generous.

Just my .02¥
Message no. 3
From: Steve Collins einan@*********.net
Subject: Damage to body parts and called shot
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 00 23:39:17 -0500
On 12/11/00 3:36 am, Sven De Herdt said:

>Probably this question has passed the list already, but I didn't really find
>the time to search all archive message, so her I go:
>
>Any suggestion/houserules on called shots, I have some ideas of my own but
>they don't really seem to work. Well..., they work fine for the PCs off
>course but when I would use them for the NPCs, well then the treat rating
>game would become highly deadly without the players able to do anything
>about it (read: one shot, one kill!). And I still believe players should
>have at least a chance to get out of a hostile situation (no matter how tiny
>it may be).
>fi. SR3 states a called shot applies a +4 TN (IIRC), but would you handle
>the same modifier when someone is aiming at the opponent's arm than he is
>aiming at the opponent's eye?

This one is simple, make the modifier sliding scale based on the size of
the target area. A generic called shot would be a +4 but a called shot to
the leg would be +6, an arm would be +6, the head would +8, the knee,
elbow, hand, foot or heart would be +10 and something as small as an eye
would be +12.

>
>What about damage caused to a body part?
>How do you treat damage done to a specific body part, if you follow the
>rules you would just mark boxes on the condition monitor. But that would
>mean that damage done to a leg could actually kill you... I'll give you an
>example of something that happened to one of my players recently (short
>version):
>The elf character was put in prison and there one of the guards shot her to
>the knee to keep her from escaping and she was left with a serious wound.
>Later on the troll took a 10 ft fall and the elf decided to help her friend
>and to catch him before he hit the ground. She missed seriously ... the
>heavy weight troll landed with his full body weight on her knee.
>The knee snapped and took overflow damage according to the condition
>monitor.
>

Ok for this how about each body part has it's own condition modifier, and
damage to that body part translates to the overall condition modifier at
some ratio specific to that body part. Some examples would be

Arms, Legs, Shoulders, Hips - Damage from called shots to those locations
translates at DC -1 (ie a deadly wound to the leg only is only a serious
wound to the character)

Hands, Feet, Elbows, Knees, etc - Damage from called shots to those
locations translates at DC -2 (ie a deadly wound to the foot only is only
a moderate wound to the character)

Head, Heart - Damage from called shots to these locations translates at
DC (ie a deadly wound to the Head only is a Deadly wound to the
character)

For Eyes, Fingers, and Toes, I may say that they are really part of the
next higher extremety so the actual damage goes to the extremety and the
specific target also takes takes DC +2 damage (so a called shot to the
eye that causes a Moderate Wound would cause a Moderate Wound to the
head, a Moderate Wound to the characters overall condition monitor and a
Deadly wound to they eye itself).

Other specific body parts you'd need to figure out on a case by case
basis.

>Off course I didn't decided to let the character die because the only damage
>she suffered was her knee being totally messed up by now. She got her leg
>fixed by DocWagon, but didn't really get a replacement (she being an adept
>and all that kind of stuff).
>I ruled that the overflow damaged had caused some permanent damage and
>probably left her with a small limb, so I gave her some stress points on
>quickness and strength (for whenever she pushes her knee to the limit).
>
>This not really being cannon (I think) I was wondering if you had any
>ideas/houserules on this subject.

Well here's an idea, not really a house rule as I havn't actually played
a game of Shadowrun since July and havn't been in a regular campaign
since Last year sometime but it looks like a fairly simple way of
handling things. Now all you need is some obvious modifiers to specific
actions for damage to body parts.

>
>-sven ;)
>--

Steve
Message no. 4
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Damage to body parts and called shot
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:10:03 EST
>>Ok for this how about each body part has it's own condition modifier, and
damage to that body part translates to the overall condition modifier at
some ratio specific to that body part. Some examples would be

Arms, Legs, Shoulders, Hips - Damage from called shots to those locations
translates at DC -1 (ie a deadly wound to the leg only is only a serious
wound to the character)
>>

It's been a long-assed while but that seems like the system they use for Battletech. Which
makes me wonder why they didn't incorporate the same system into SR, since it's the same
company. Different writers though, and I suppose they didn't want the systems to be
identical.
Message no. 5
From: Sven De Herdt sven.deherdt@******.com
Subject: Damage to body parts and called shot
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:03:48 +0100
A while ago I posted this mail to collect ideas and comments for house rules
and following is what I distillated from all your input (my thanks to all
who participated) and some brainstorming of my own:

> >Any suggestion/houserules on called shots,
> This one is simple, make the modifier sliding scale based on
> the size of
> the target area. A generic called shot would be a +4 but a
> called shot to
> the leg would be +6, an arm would be +6, the head would +8, the knee,
> elbow, hand, foot or heart would be +10 and something as
> small as an eye
> would be +12.

I thought this was a decent idea, so I just re-styled it into following
table:
Called shot TN modifier
generic +4
arm or leg +6
head +8
hand, foot, elbow, knee; heart, throat +10
eye +12

> >What about damage caused to a body part?

Depending on the damage level of the weapon I improvised following house
rules:

GENERIC called shot
no changes, see SR3 p. 114
ARM or LEG
L, M or S: damage code is increased by one level (up to a
maximum of D); damage resistance test as normal
D: Limb is lost or permanently damaged (stress points!)
HEAD
L: damage code is increased by one level (up to a maximum
of D); damage resistance test with half body dice to determine
damage
M: IF power rating >= 2x armor rating THEN: skull is mangled
and has to be replaced by cyberware ELSE: see previous damage
level
S: IF power rating >= 2x armor rating THEN: target is killed.
ELSE: see previous damage level
D: Target is killed
HAND, FOOT, ELBOW, KNEE; OR HEART, THROAT
L or M: damage code is increased by one level (up to a maximum
of D); damage resistance test with half body dice to determine
damage
S: IF power rating >= 2x armor rating THEN: Limb is lost or
permanently damaged (stress points!); OR target is killed.
ELSE: see previous damage level
D:Limb is lost; OR target is killed
EYE
L; damage code is increased by one level (up to a maximum of D);
damage resistance test with half body dice, but organ is lost
M: IF power rating >= 2x armor rating THEN: target is killed.
ELSE: see previous damage level
S or D: Target is killed

I haven't tested these houserules yet, and so I would welcome any comments
and/or suggestions accordingly,

-sven ;)
-- >

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