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Message no. 1
From: sedahdro@******.holli.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Damaging manipulation spells
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 12:55 EST
>Hello, I am new to this mailing list and I feel that I must ask the one
>question which has haunted me since I started Shadowrun. You have probably
>talked about this many times in the past but please help me out or tell me
>your feelings on this subject...Can damaging manipulation spells be used on
>the astral? and how...
Yes they can, but the spell must be able to affect the object or being in
the physical world (ie a mind control wont work on foci). Just remember
mana spells attack the target only, physical spells ususally hit the target
and ground out.
>
>First if a manipulation spell is cast at another astrally bound person does
>the spell transverce the distance in physical space as well? i.e. If
>two mages are fighting in the astral, does a normal observer see fireballs
>race across the sky?
No an observer in the physical world only will not see the magical energy,
from the spells unless he goes dual)
>And if so, can a manipulation spell be targeted at a specific point
>in astral space and somehow affect physical since it has a physical
>component (I know there is no bridge...but where does it go?)
Only if the target has something that can be grounded through(ie an active
foci) and the spell is a physical spell
>And finally what about a spell like...Magic fingers? what happens if
>it is cast in astral space? where does this spell go? can it affect
>physical or is it in "astral space" but have no affect?
Good question, but the answer eludes me.
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 2
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Damaging Manipulation Spells
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:17:00 -0700
dreamwvr wrote:
>
> In the SR2 book, it states that damaging manipulation spells are perhaps the
> most powerful. However, when you look at say Spark, the target not only gets
> to roll his body to resist but combat pool dice as well.
> How then do they conclude that these spells do more damage if the target
> gets more resistance dice?
> Furthermore, this brings me to the question: How does one dodge a lightning
> bolt?

I've found damaging manipulations nice for a couple of reasons:

1). Though an initiate may be able to add shielding dice to his body in
resisting, the shielding doesn't raise my T#'s for casting because my T#
is a base 4 as per ranged combat not his BOD or WILL.

2). You can call a shot just as if you were shooting him in the head
with an Ares Predator (raising damaging category, bypassing armor, and
so on) not to mention you can target a particular area of a room and not
have to ground through someone to get the spell off.


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 3
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Damaging Manipulation Spells
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:59:50 -0700
Loki wrote:
>
> dreamwvr wrote:
> >
> > In the SR2 book, it states that damaging manipulation spells are perhaps the
> > most powerful. However, when you look at say Spark, the target not only gets
> > to roll his body to resist but combat pool dice as well.
> > How then do they conclude that these spells do more damage if the target
> > gets more resistance dice?
> > Furthermore, this brings me to the question: How does one dodge a lightning
> > bolt?
>
> I've found damaging manipulations nice for a couple of reasons:
>
> 1). Though an initiate may be able to add shielding dice to his body in
> resisting, the shielding doesn't raise my T#'s for casting because my T#
> is a base 4 as per ranged combat not his BOD or WILL.
>
> 2). You can call a shot just as if you were shooting him in the head
> with an Ares Predator (raising damaging category, bypassing armor, and
> so on) not to mention you can target a particular area of a room and not
> have to ground through someone to get the spell off.

I also forgot to add that the elemental effects of a damaging
manipulation spell are much more likely to affect the surrounding
evnvironment than those from a combat spell.

Also a manipulation spell has the potential of hitting a target out of
your LOS (like hiding around that corner) with the +8 blindfire modifier
applied.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 4
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Damaging Manipulation Spells
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:17 AM 9/13/96 -0700, Loki wrote:

>I've found damaging manipulations nice for a couple of reasons:
>
>1). Though an initiate may be able to add shielding dice to his body in
>resisting, the shielding doesn't raise my T#'s for casting because my T#
>is a base 4 as per ranged combat not his BOD or WILL.

Even without shielding, this is a much nicer target number when
casting at those big nasty Body 10 trolls.

>2). You can call a shot just as if you were shooting him in the head
>with an Ares Predator (raising damaging category, bypassing armor, and
>so on) not to mention you can target a particular area of a room and not
>have to ground through someone to get the spell off.

Hmm, never thought of doing that before. I presumed the effect wasn't fine
enough to use targeting rules like that.

Grounding?!?!?! Now you've done it! *grin*

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 5
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Damaging Manipulation Spells
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:37:32 GMT
Ubiquitous writes

> >I've found damaging manipulations nice for a couple of reasons:
> >
> >1). Though an initiate may be able to add shielding dice to his body in
> >resisting, the shielding doesn't raise my T#'s for casting because my T#
> >is a base 4 as per ranged combat not his BOD or WILL.
>
> Even without shielding, this is a much nicer target number when
> casting at those big nasty Body 10 trolls.
>
yes.

> >2). You can call a shot just as if you were shooting him in the head
> >with an Ares Predator (raising damaging category, bypassing armor, and
> >so on) not to mention you can target a particular area of a room and not
> >have to ground through someone to get the spell off.
>
> Hmm, never thought of doing that before. I presumed the effect wasn't fine
> enough to use targeting rules like that.
>
i don't think you are allowed to target sections of things with
spells at all. Though it should be possible with damaging
manipulation on large enough objects. eg pick the door out of the
wall.

> Grounding?!?!?! Now you've
> done it! *grin* >
I think the idea was you don't have to centre the spell on someone,
folfs often stand 10M appart in SR because manaballs etc have to be
centred on a living target, hence the 10m gap requires a 10M Radius
spell. With damaging manipulations however anywhere is valid, ie two
goons 10M appart, drop the spell between them and if its over 5M
radius they both get hit!

10M is popular as its enough over 6M to discourage increased radius
and allows for bad guys with 1-3 grades of initiation.

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Damaging Manipulation Spells
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:49:21 -0700
Mark Steedman wrote:
>
> i don't think you are allowed to target sections of things with
> spells at all. Though it should be possible with damaging
> manipulation on large enough objects. eg pick the door out of the
> wall.

I allow called shots to be made with damaging manipulations. It's
explained that the spells are handled per ranged combat rules, and if
you can target a particular location in space with it I'd think you
could target a limb or appendage (taking into account the +4's). But
that's just the ruling in my game.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************

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