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Message no. 1
From: Robert Blackberg III <blackbrc@***.fiserv.com>
Subject: Damaging Spirits (was RE: Laser(sort of) weapons)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:27:46 -0400
>>> "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <ojastej@******.sid.ncr.doe.ca> -
7/19/96
6:06 PM >>>

>> > So I guess the real question is: at what point does laser
>> > damage cease to carry the wielder's full will?
>> Oh, this wasn't about laser sights on guns counting full?
>>
>> Um, MP III would follow gun rules (it's a gun)
>> crescent axe would follow melee rules (it's an axe)
>> right?

>By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
>*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks
>are penalized because they don't carry the full weight/"charge"
>of the attacker's will (SR2, 142 & 219).

>So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?
<snip>
>The most likely possibility:
>* Is it because something else is propelling the object?
>When you pull the trigger, the propellant in a gun explodes -
>it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger, the ammo will fire
>just the same. When you fire a crossbow, a series of levers
>and cogs releases the string, which propels the bolt.

>So, it seems as though having something other than yourself
>directly propel the projectile causes a will-loss. On the
>other hand, regular bows are not affected, and light isn't
>"propelled", there's just a lot of it in a combat laser.

Here's my take: When you use the gun and the crossbow your control
over the power of the attack is fixed. (Sure you can hand load a
bullet with less powder or reduce the tension in a crossbow, but not
at the moment of decision.) With a bow you have direct control over
the power of the attack. Therefore when you have the ability to
control the damage you do to the opponent, you have the ability to
hit the opponent. It's all psychological. You FEEL you have more
control in the situation, therefore you do (when dealing with a
spirit, don't try this on a dragon <grin>).

Any other takers?

Robert
Message no. 2
From: C J Anderson <nitehawk@******.net>
Subject: Re: Damaging Spirits (was RE: Laser(sort of) weapons)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:28:27 -0500
Robert Blackberg III wrote:
>
> >>> "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <ojastej@******.sid.ncr.doe.ca> -
7/19/96
> 6:06 PM >>>
>
> >> > So I guess the real question is: at what point does laser
> >> > damage cease to carry the wielder's full will?
> >> Oh, this wasn't about laser sights on guns counting full?
> >>
> >> Um, MP III would follow gun rules (it's a gun)
> >> crescent axe would follow melee rules (it's an axe)
> >> right?
>
> >By the book, yes. However, we're trying to come up with a
> >*reason* why things work. According to the book, ranged attacks
> >are penalized because they don't carry the full weight/"charge"
> >of the attacker's will (SR2, 142 & 219).
>
> >So, my question is: what dilutes this "charge"?
> <snip>
> >The most likely possibility:
> >* Is it because something else is propelling the object?
> >When you pull the trigger, the propellant in a gun explodes -
> >it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger, the ammo will fire
> >just the same. When you fire a crossbow, a series of levers
> >and cogs releases the string, which propels the bolt.
>
> >So, it seems as though having something other than yourself
> >directly propel the projectile causes a will-loss. On the
> >other hand, regular bows are not affected, and light isn't
> >"propelled", there's just a lot of it in a combat laser.
>
> Here's my take: When you use the gun and the crossbow your control
> over the power of the attack is fixed. (Sure you can hand load a
> bullet with less powder or reduce the tension in a crossbow, but not
> at the moment of decision.) With a bow you have direct control over
> the power of the attack. Therefore when you have the ability to
> control the damage you do to the opponent, you have the ability to
> hit the opponent. It's all psychological. You FEEL you have more
> control in the situation, therefore you do (when dealing with a
> spirit, don't try this on a dragon <grin>).
>
> Any other takers?
>
> Robert

Sorry, Robert, as an archer and bowhunter, I have to disagree. Bows
have a point you have to draw the bowstring past to make them work
properly. The only control on the power of the attack is what draw of
bow you buy, and unfortunately, the rules don't allow for that. I would
love to work up a table for that, but don't have the time right now.
If you go to an archery shop, they will ask what "draw" you
want. These usually range from 50 lb to 90 lb draws, in 10 lb
increments. That is the only thing that would affect the power. The
higher the draw, the more strength it takes to pull it, but if you dont
pull it all the way, the arrow will drop about 2 ft. in front of you.
Anyone else?

**Sheepishly climbs off soapbox.....

C J

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\nitehawk@radiks.net/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Times have changed, Tomas, we no longer swill sherry and screw goats for
fun....

---Droz, PCU

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Message no. 3
From: Angela Schaafsma <ba094@*******.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Damaging Spirits (was RE: Laser(sort of) weapons)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:04:59 -0400 (EDT)
>> Here's my take: When you use the gun and the crossbow your control
>> over the power of the attack is fixed. (Sure you can hand load a
>> bullet with less powder or reduce the tension in a crossbow, but not
>> at the moment of decision.) With a bow you have direct control over
>> the power of the attack. Therefore when you have the ability to
>> control the damage you do to the opponent, you have the ability to
>> hit the opponent. It's all psychological. You FEEL you have more
>> control in the situation, therefore you do (when dealing with a
>> spirit, don't try this on a dragon <grin>).
>>
>> Any other takers?
>>
>> Robert
>
>Sorry, Robert, as an archer and bowhunter, I have to disagree. Bows
>have a point you have to draw the bowstring past to make them work
>properly. The only control on the power of the attack is what draw of
>bow you buy, and unfortunately, the rules don't allow for that. I would
>love to work up a table for that, but don't have the time right now.
> If you go to an archery shop, they will ask what "draw" you
>want. These usually range from 50 lb to 90 lb draws, in 10 lb
>increments. That is the only thing that would affect the power. The
>higher the draw, the more strength it takes to pull it, but if you dont
>pull it all the way, the arrow will drop about 2 ft. in front of you.
>Anyone else?
>
>**Sheepishly climbs off soapbox.....
>
>C J

That is accurate with compound bows (pulley system), you have to pull to
at least half draw to get any power behind the arrow, at full draw you are
holding about half of the bows weight. (on a 150lb at 28 inch draw bow,
you'd be holding at full draw, roughly half of that. You still get the
full power of the bow.) So at half draw, you could release, and then lean
forward and pick up your arrow.

But with longbows (traditional, no pulleys) you are pulling an increasing
amount of weight. With my 42lb Recurve I can send a cedar shafted arrow
about a third of the distance from a 14 inch draw that I can at the full
28 inch draw. (the longest I have shot is 100 yards with any accuracy,
haven't tried past that. And the arc is astounding. ;) Another friend
with a 80lb longbow can send his arrows the same distance as mine at
without even going to full draw.

As for how much the poundage increases/decreases per inch, I'm not sure.
I do know that at my personal full draw length I am pulling 44 lbs, and
that is at 29.5 inches. My bow is measured at 42 lbs at a 28 inch draw.
That gets into maths, and I'm not a mathematician. (Archery coach, yes,
Math-head, no.)

-Dvixen



--
Dvixen ba094 mka AJ Schaafsma
HEY! How do I work this thing?????
Hmmmm..... Hit <crtl> <alt> <del> for intelligence test.
Ok! ***fizzle*** ***beep***
Message no. 4
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <ojastej@******.sid.ncr.doe.ca>
Subject: RE: Damaging Spirits (was RE: Laser(sort of) weapons)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 09:28:00 PDT
> Sorry, Robert, as an archer and bowhunter, I have to disagree. Bows
> have a point you have to draw the bowstring past to make them work
> properly. The only control on the power of the attack is what draw of
> bow you buy, and unfortunately, the rules don't allow for that. I
would
> love to work up a table for that, but don't have the time right now.

Well, the bows have costs based on strength minimums. As for
using strength beyond the minimum, I guess you could assign
the bow a barrier rating and subtract the difference in
strength until the bow snaps.

James

--
I can't be bothered to think up a generally witty comment right now, so
if you'll just leave your sense of humour at the tone...
Message no. 5
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: RE: Damaging Spirits (was RE: Laser(sort of) weapons)
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:51:57 -0600
James wrote:
>
>Well, the bows have costs based on strength minimums. As for
>using strength beyond the minimum, I guess you could assign
>the bow a barrier rating and subtract the difference in
>strength until the bow snaps.
>
That would only be the case if you tried putting too much of a bend
on the bow. The strength rating of the bow is the force the bow is
exerting on the string. If the user's strength is greater than the
draw rating of the boow then it is easyer to draw it, but once he
releases the arrow it's speed is determined by the strenth of the bow.
So if the character is _very_ strong he can get the biggest bow he
can draw, or use a smaller bow and shoot faster. (can shoot twice as
fast if the bow rating is less than half of the characters strength)


Piatro

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