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Message no. 1
From: riftspyro@*****.com (Mike Watren)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
A lot of our groups chars are part decker at least *
this didnt happen over night but meh in D&D terms you
could call it multi classing lol *naw* Any ways every
time we or one of us jacks into the matrix or what
ever I have trouble mentaly seeing what a data jack
and cable looks like>? Does it look any thing like a
phone jack we have no adays? Or Cat 5 cable used for
networking today? Or is it a bunch of wires you have
to slip into the jack point or data jack its self?
Dont know I have been thru the Target matrix and the
new matrix book ( well not new any more) and im still
lost on this.. can any one give me a mental picture on
this.. normaly I dont have this much trouble trying
imagine some thing just thought I would ask all the
other deckheads out there.. thanks =)

The Great Mr Slamm-0! ( The Matrix is my
playground..so who wants to crash a few hosts?)

()xxx()________________________)

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Message no. 2
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:09:19 -0600
At 08:01 AM 4/10/2003 -0700, Mike Watren wrote:
>A lot of our groups chars are part decker at least *
>this didnt happen over night but meh in D&D terms you
>could call it multi classing lol *naw* Any ways every
>time we or one of us jacks into the matrix or what
>ever I have trouble mentaly seeing what a data jack
>and cable looks like>? Does it look any thing like a
>phone jack we have no adays? Or Cat 5 cable used for
>networking today? Or is it a bunch of wires you have
>to slip into the jack point or data jack its self?
>Dont know I have been thru the Target matrix and the
>new matrix book ( well not new any more) and im still
>lost on this.. can any one give me a mental picture on
>this.. normaly I dont have this much trouble trying
>imagine some thing just thought I would ask all the
>other deckheads out there.. thanks =)

I've always imagined a data jack as being similar to a 1/8 inch stereo jack
(like one for walkman headphones), with the cable being just a little bit
thicker and the plug being a little bit shorter.

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 3
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:12:43 -0400
>I've always imagined a data jack as being similar to a 1/8 inch stereo jack

>(like one for walkman headphones), with the cable being just a little bit
>thicker and the plug being a little bit shorter.

I've always imagined it to be like the datajack used by Harper in Andromeda

Coyote
Message no. 4
From: rodrigo_berenguer@*****.ca (Pete)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
My interpretation of a jack has always been something
like the one used by Johny Mnemonic (in the movie),
except moved to the user's temple. But then, I've
always seen SR in very William Gibson terms.

====Pete
player, GM, and general SR addict.

______________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:43:16 -0700
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
Pete <rodrigo_berenguer@*****.ca> wrote:
> My interpretation of a jack has always been something
> like the one used by Johny Mnemonic (in the movie),
> except moved to the user's temple. But then, I've
> always seen SR in very William Gibson terms.
>
Yeah, let's go back to basics. Who's for a run on Winternight?
Where's GURPS Neuromancer?
--Anders
Message no. 6
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:27:07 +0200
According to Mike Watren, on Thursday 10 April 2003 17:01 the word on the
street was...

> Does it look any thing like a
> phone jack we have no adays? Or Cat 5 cable used for
> networking today? Or is it a bunch of wires you have
> to slip into the jack point or data jack its self?

The old SR1 main rulebook had a picture of a chipjack, but not a datajack.
FWIW, I've always thought of them along the same lines as Graht: kind of
like a 3-mm stereo plug of the kind you find at the end of a set of
walkman headphones. The actual plug would have to be shorter, of course,
but it works as a mental image :)

However, the very first SR review I ever read, back in 1989, described
deckers as plugging into the Matrix via a kind of "Scart plug in the back
of the head". Now if you know what a Scart plug looks like, I don't think
you'll want one of those installed in your skull :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We'll all take turns. I'll get mine, too.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: deaths_fist@*****.com (Dustin Rahn)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
I'm going to agree with the others who've stated that it
probably looks like a stereo jack plug. Keep in mind
though, that it will have a fiber-optic core, rather than
metal electron conduction. Think "lit-up end".

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Message no. 8
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:14:57 -0700
On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Dustin Rahn <deaths_fist@*****.com> wrote:
> I'm going to agree with the others who've stated that it
> probably looks like a stereo jack plug. Keep in mind
> though, that it will have a fiber-optic core, rather than
> metal electron conduction. Think "lit-up end".
>
[patriotically snipped]
I don't think the energy level would be high enough to produce a visible
glow. Also, I imagine it would be a dense pack of micro fibers, for massive
paralel transmission. Don't forget, you have brain operating temperature
stability to contend with. Also, I heard a RL radio story about a stroke
victim who had electrodes implanted that allow him to control a computer
cursor. They put some gold elecrtodes in a likely part of the brain and
allowed nerve tissue to regrow over them. They said he could make the screen
spell stuff. Would that really be the first DOS datajack driver?
--Anders
Message no. 9
From: matrix@*******.nu (MatrixRat)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:46:54 -0400
> I'm going to agree with the others who've stated that it
> probably looks like a stereo jack plug. Keep in mind
> though, that it will have a fiber-optic core, rather than
> metal electron conduction. Think "lit-up end".
>

Actually the core could be either, on a 6 foot or less, the speed/signal
loss between fiber and copper most likely is a non factor. Though by the
age they speak of, most likely it will have something that is made from a
room temp superconductor to hold the load of the MP through the system, and
it would be up to the gm to decide the properties...

Silly decker, the 'Trix is for kids...

Matrix Rat
Message no. 10
From: bandwidthoracle@*********.net (Bandwidth Oracle)
Subject: Fwd: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:32:14 -0600
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Mike Watren <riftspyro@*****.com>
> Date: Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:01:36 AM America/Denver
> To: shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com
> Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
> Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
>
> A lot of our groups chars are part decker at least *
> this didnt happen over night but meh in D&D terms you
> could call it multi classing lol *naw* Any ways every
> time we or one of us jacks into the matrix or what
> ever I have trouble mentaly seeing what a data jack
> and cable looks like>? Does it look any thing like a
> phone jack we have no adays? Or Cat 5 cable used for
> networking today? Or is it a bunch of wires you have
> to slip into the jack point or data jack its self?
> Dont know I have been thru the Target matrix and the
> new matrix book ( well not new any more) and im still
> lost on this.. can any one give me a mental picture on
> this.. normaly I dont have this much trouble trying
> imagine some thing just thought I would ask all the
> other deckheads out there.. thanks =)

My group almost unanimously loves "The Matrix". We kind of assumed that
since it was on the back of the head it looked a lot like the jacks do
in "The Matrix".
My two cents,
Bandwidthoracle
Message no. 11
From: alex.case@*******.net (Alex Case)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:52:25 -0700
---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment
At 07:27 PM 4/10/03 +0200, you wrote:
>However, the very first SR review I ever read, back in 1989, described
>deckers as plugging into the Matrix via a kind of "Scart plug in the back
>of the head". Now if you know what a Scart plug looks like, I don't think
>you'll want one of those installed in your skull :)

Well, how big are Scart Plugs? I've never heard of them before.

"It is written that it is better to burn a single city than to curse the
darkness"
-From "The Furies" By Roger Zelazny

---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.467 / Virus Database: 266 - Release Date: 4/1/03

---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment--
Message no. 12
From: me@******.net (Hexren)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:43:50 +0200
AC> At 07:27 PM 4/10/03 +0200, you wrote:
>>However, the very first SR review I ever read, back in 1989, described
>>deckers as plugging into the Matrix via a kind of "Scart plug in the back
>>of the head". Now if you know what a Scart plug looks like, I don't think
>>you'll want one of those installed in your skull :)

AC> Well, how big are Scart Plugs? I've never heard of them before.

AC> "It is written that it is better to burn a single city than to curse the
AC> darkness"
AC> -From "The Furies" By Roger Zelazny

---------------------------------------------

www.hexren.net/scart I made some pics of one, today they are mostly used
to connect TV equipment to the TV.

I must say I prefer te idea of a stereo jack plug. For these would
look way cooler IMHO

I think to remember there was a picture on the SR2.01D Hardcover that
showed a decker jackin in. I will look that up when I come back from
work.
Message no. 13
From: mooseshagger@*******.com (Captain Canuck)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:13:08 -0700
Naturally, there will be several different models of datajack and adapters
widely available on the market. The open standard compliant version, widely
accepted by all sort so manufacturers, and the non-compliant versions each
to a different standard set by your favourite Megacorp.

More food for thought:

If the lead is an optical cable, it would probably only need to be a single
fibre since Dense Wave Division Multiplexing would mean it could transmit
multiple frequencies on the same fibre.

I also think the transmission might be wireless. Even if it's light based.
It might use OptiNet FibrAir Wireless Optical Network technology, recently
patented by Renraku technologies, market leaders in secure optical
networking, bringing the power of the sun a whole lot closer!

However, would it be optical? It might be, but there could be some
difficulty figuring out the optical to electrical conversion at the DNI,
(there's only so much space in our big heads) so it's possible the
communication might need to be electrical so that the low level electrical
impulses can be fed directly into the brain. Unless the data jack were in
the eye and the retina converted the light into electrical impulses. See?
Ideas, and more ideas. Some work, some don't. Just imagine.

Hell, it can be both. See paragraph 1. Both technologies would probably
exist concurrently and data jacks can come in a variety of formats.

Runners, run on.

CMF.


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Message no. 14
From: paul@*********.demon.co.uk (Paul Squires)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:47:20 +0100
In message <F8poXFiiCu6zJic97Hr0000a96a@*******.com>, Captain Canuck
<mooseshagger@*******.com> writes
>I also think the transmission might be wireless. Even if it's light
>based. It might use OptiNet FibrAir Wireless Optical Network
>technology, recently patented by Renraku technologies, market leaders
>in secure optical networking, bringing the power of the sun a whole lot
>closer!

Bluetooth datajacks anyone? Given the huge push for wireless connections
on devices right now, there's no way that anyone is using cable for
anything in 60 years time.
--
Paul Squires
paul@*********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 15
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:29:30 +0200
According to Alex Case, on Friday 11 April 2003 03:52 the word on the
street was...

> >However, the very first SR review I ever read, back in 1989, described
> >deckers as plugging into the Matrix via a kind of "Scart plug in the
> > back of the head". Now if you know what a Scart plug looks like, I
> > don't think you'll want one of those installed in your skull :)
>
> Well, how big are Scart Plugs? I've never heard of them before.

They're European TV/VCR/etc. plugs, about 4.5 cm wide and 1.2 cm thick,
with 20 connectors (is that the word I'm looking for?) in two rows of 10.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We'll all take turns. I'll get mine, too.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: Shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:56:09 +0200
Paul Squires wrote:

Bluetooth datajacks anyone? Given the huge push for wireless connections
on devices right now, there's no way that anyone is using cable for
anything in 60 years time.
--------------------------------
Two words. :)

1) Bandwidth.
2) Security.
Message no. 17
From: mooseshagger@*******.com (Captain Canuck)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:05:18 -0700
>--------------------------------
>Two words. :)
>
>1) Bandwidth.
>2) Security.
>

Both important considerations, but not obstacles which can't be overcome.

1) Check out www.lightreading.com. Wireless optical networking is here and
so bandwidth isn't a constraint for our purposes in 60 years time.

2) Security is always important to consider. However, the physical medium
needn't necessarily be proteced if the upper layer traffic is. However, it
is always possible that both layers will be encrypted. The upper layers via
an application, and the transmission layers via hardware at Tx/Rx.

CMF
9 out of 10 dentists recommend not getting punched in the mouth.




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Message no. 18
From: me@******.net (Hexren)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:46:29 +0200
>>--------------------------------
>>Two words. :)
>>
>>1) Bandwidth.
>>2) Security.
>>


CC> 2) Security is always important to consider. However, the physical medium
CC> needn't necessarily be proteced if the upper layer traffic is. However, it
CC> is always possible that both layers will be encrypted. The upper layers via
CC> an application, and the transmission layers via hardware at Tx/Rx.

---------------------------------------------

Optical Cable is more secure cause if u cann see the whole length of
caple u are using you can visually detect any listening devices. You
never now where Wireless spreads to ;)
Message no. 19
From: pgrosse@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:37:25 -0500
>
> In message <F8poXFiiCu6zJic97Hr0000a96a@*******.com>, Captain Canuck
> <mooseshagger@*******.com> writes
> >I also think the transmission might be wireless. Even if it's
light
> >based. It might use OptiNet FibrAir Wireless Optical Network
> >technology, recently patented by Renraku technologies,
> market leaders
> >in secure optical networking, bringing the power of the sun
> a whole lot
> >closer!
>
> Bluetooth datajacks anyone? Given the huge push for wireless
> connections
> on devices right now, there's no way that anyone is using cable for
> anything in 60 years time.
> --
> Paul Squires


Umm security issues, "Yes lets make the shadowrunners jobs easier by
making all our data transmitted via wireless technology so that it can
be picked up fairly easily!" - Megacorp CEO

"Yes Sir!!" - faceless Yes man attached to CEO like a parasite

Any cable ran system is infinitely more secure than a wireless
network. :)

Paul "Yes that Paul" Grosse
ICQ: 14397299
AO: Nylan
Various forums: Nylan (or Nylanfs)

"The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race
to keep all it's eggs in." - Robert Heinlein
Message no. 20
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:36:48 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Grosse" <pgrosse@********.com>

> Any cable ran system is infinitely more secure than a wireless
> network. :)

Really, a network that depends on being hard to tap is basically
another form of security by obscurity, and that's not secure at all.

So, the question is really how good is your encryption. This can be
done at any level, or at multiple, but it has to be done for the
network to be secure. AES (Rijndael?) is pretty damn good, and scales
well. Unfortunately, it's not known to be secure, so it, like DES
will get weaker as time passes. RSA encryption actually got stronger
based on the discovery of a fast non-probabilistic primality test this
year, and now scales well. [Of course, *I* tend to believe that the
days of RSA are numbered, because I believe there exists a fast
non-probabilistic prime factorization method, either derived from the
new primality test, my belief that NP=P, or advances in quantum
computing that give fast answers to NP-complete problems.]

Untappable optical "cables" should come about within a few years,
although they'll basically have to be permanent installation only, and
have a limited distance. Basically, they'll have photon-level quantum
encryption that is, according to how physicists currently understand
the universe, unbreakable (without being instantly detectable).

[That all being said, I think that things will, for the majority, stay
wired for bandwidth and "perception of security" issues.]

Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
Message no. 21
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
> [That all being said, I think that things will, for the majority,
> stay wired for bandwidth and "perception of security" issues.]

Wireless technology was lost in the Crash of '29. People have been
so busy rewiring human bodies and coping with magic, that they stick
to physical connection, at least through 2063.

(You just have to love the foresight of those FASA guys. Hmmm...
Current tech will be obsolete long before we want our game to be.
Let's build a giant caveat into our game history to allow for this.)

<display big_grin.jpg>

======Korishinzo
--being flippant

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Message no. 22
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:04:02 +0200
At 14:33 11/04/2003 -0700, Ice Heart wrote:


>Wireless technology was lost in the Crash of '29. People have been
>so busy rewiring human bodies and coping with magic, that they stick
>to physical connection, at least through 2063.

IIRC there are rules for wireless Matrix connections somewhere in
Matrix... From what I remember they're totally bogus (though not as bad as
the satellite ones), but they're here...
Not to mention another big (SR) application of wireless data
transmission: remote control networks. The bandwidth these things use must
be so awfully high (full, mid-brain level, uncompressed, multiple simsense
feeds going *both ways* -- and that's not even counting the 2 other
channels, all of this combined with very fast frequency-hopping), R/C
encryption and decryption chips probably have a tremendous processing power...


-- Wild_Cat

maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
GCC0.2 y83.fr G99 SCP/F:Eh[SR] B+ f=(++) RR(RM) RM+ RR++ L-(=) M--- w=
s+(-):-(+) GM+:=(+):-:PF h+ p=>+ LA=(-) mf- w=>+ C+(++) CG= OG+ F+ c! K
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and
sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 23
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:09:57 -0400
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Da Twink Daddy [mailto:datwinkdaddy@*******.com]
>Sent: Friday, 11, April, 2003 15:37 PM
>To: Shadowrun Discussion
>Subject: Re: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
>Untappable optical "cables" should come about within a few years,
>although they'll basically have to be permanent installation only, and
>have a limited distance.

Optical cables are tappable. Part of my job is tapping them as well as
terminating and splicing them. They are harder to tap than copper but it
can be done. Locations of taps can also be easily identified on optical
cables using a time division multiplexer but this is only effective on
cables which run more than a kilometer. Just for everyones info. :)

Coyote
Message no. 24
From: nightgyr@*********.com.au (GreyWolf)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:29:37 +1000
>Untappable optical "cables" should come about within a few years,
>> >although they'll basically have to be permanent installation only, and
>> >have a limited distance.
>>
>> Optical cables are tappable. Part of my job is tapping them as well as
>> terminating and splicing them. They are harder to tap than copper but it
>> can be done. Locations of taps can also be easily identified on optical
>> cables using a time division multiplexer but this is only effective on
>> cables which run more than a kilometer. Just for everyones info. :)

According to Fasa (and this was way ahead of its technological time), the
optical links used in SR are built so they cant be tapped. Perhaps (as is
suggested in one of the novels) the cable is physically produced to make it
opaque to external 'tapping devices' thus not passing any data through.

Either way, do we need to assume SR tech is the same as todays? I think it
entirely possible that there could be an optical fibre created which is
untappable outside of the electronic transfer links and/or booster stations.

GreyWolf
Message no. 25
From: Shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:27:52 +0200
COYOTE WROTE:

Optical cables are tappable. Part of my job is tapping them as well as
terminating and splicing them. They are harder to tap than copper but it
can be done. Locations of taps can also be easily identified on optical
cables using a time division multiplexer but this is only effective on
cables which run more than a kilometer. Just for everyones info. :)
--------------------------------------

Guys, this thread of the conversation originally started while discussing
the LINK *BETWEEN* the DECKER and the CYBERDECK.

I'm a bit lost here, but are we actually discussing tapping the couple of
feet long piece of cable that goes from the decker's skull to the 'deck??!
Message no. 26
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:47:16 -0400
>-----Original Message-----
>From: GreyWolf [mailto:nightgyr@*********.com.au]
>Sent: Monday, 14, April, 2003 08:30 AM
>To: Shadowrun Discussion
>Subject: RE: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
>Untappable optical "cables" should come about within a few years,
>According to Fasa (and this was way ahead of its technological time), the
>optical links used in SR are built so they cant be tapped. Perhaps (as is
>suggested in one of the novels) the cable is physically produced to make it
>opaque to external 'tapping devices' thus not passing any data through.

This is not really new or future technology. They came out with the opaque
untappable jacket a few years ago. This made it much harder to tap cables.
Instead of just having to bend the cable around a reader you now had to
physically strip off the casing. In order to make optical cables which can
be terminated for a reasonable cost they need to be made so that the casing
is not physically adhered to the fiber. This makes it possible to strip
them
back and tap them without breaking the cable. If you could arrange some
downtime
on the circuit you also have the option of cutting the cable and splicing
the tap
right into it.

>
>Either way, do we need to assume SR tech is the same as todays? I think it
>entirely possible that there could be an optical fibre created which is
>untappable outside of the electronic transfer links and/or booster
stations.

Bottom line. Where there is a will there is a way. In 2060 I expect that
technology will have advanced tremendously but so will counter technology.
I wouldn't count anything made by man as undefeatable. Example: Titanic
Need I say more?

Coyote
Message no. 27
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:56:11 -0400
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shannon Buys [mailto:Shannon@*****.co.za]
>Sent: Monday, 14, April, 2003 08:28 AM
>To: Shadowrun Discussion
>Subject: RE: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
>Optical cables are tappable. Part of my job is tapping them as well as
>terminating and splicing them. They are harder to tap than copper but it
>can be done. Locations of taps can also be easily identified on optical
>cables using a time division multiplexer but this is only effective on
>cables which run more than a kilometer. Just for everyones info. :)
>--------------------------------------
>
>Guys, this thread of the conversation originally started while discussing
>the LINK *BETWEEN* the DECKER and the CYBERDECK.
>
>I'm a bit lost here, but are we actually discussing tapping the couple of
>feet long piece of cable that goes from the decker's skull to the 'deck??!

I believe that this was in response to why Corps don't go wireless and use
Optical cables for security. I'm sorry for the confusion. We should have
had an "OT" in the title for our last couple messages. This thread is
slightly
OT as it attempts to explain how the decker utilizes a dataline tap to
get on to a system. Whether that tap is optical or copper.

Coyote
Message no. 28
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:16:02 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <York.GA@******.gc.ca>


> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Da Twink Daddy [mailto:datwinkdaddy@*******.com]

> >Untappable optical "cables" should come about within a few years,
> >although they'll basically have to be permanent installation only,
and
> >have a limited distance.

> Optical cables are tappable. Just for everyones info. :)

Not the optical cables I'm talking about. Current optical cables are
tappable, anyone who disagrees is just silly. These new optical
"cables" carry each bit a a single photon that is in a superposition
of quantum states. Both fortunately and unfortunately this makes the
data stream incredibly fragile. Both reflection and refraction of
such a stream will end up dropping all but one one of the quantum
states (although it's impossible to predict to which one it will
drop). So, the "cables" will always have to be perfectly straight,
and IIRC, have a descent vaccuum inside.

Now, one might think that you should simply be able to recieve and
retransmit, but the key is that the reciever knows which of the
quantum states to select based on a encryption key. Of course, if you
have the key all is good, tapping of the "cable" would be rather
textbook. If you don't have the key, you can't figure out what to
retransmit, because you can only read one of the quantum states from
each photon, and it may not be the correct one.

Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
Message no. 29
From: iridios@********.net (Iridios)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:23:38 -0400
Da Twink Daddy wrote:
> These new optical
> "cables" carry each bit a a single photon that is in a superposition
> of quantum states. Both fortunately and unfortunately this makes the
> data stream incredibly fragile. Both reflection and refraction of
> such a stream will end up dropping all but one one of the quantum
> states (although it's impossible to predict to which one it will
> drop). So, the "cables" will always have to be perfectly straight,
> and IIRC, have a descent vaccuum inside.

For these cables to remain perfectly straight, the facility will
have to be perfectly stable. No fluctuation in design. Even basic
"settling" which occurs in most buildings (sooner or later) could
impact the straightness of these cables. Also, these cable really
could be built into new building, because retrofitting old buildings
to handle these cables would be a major re-engineering task.


--
Iridios
--
Specs from my dream system:
1 1.4gb hd
------------------------------------------------------
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m=>- w--->= s=>*:= GM+:+(=):=[PF] h= p!>+ LA= mf+ W+ C--(+) CG- OG+
F= c->= K=(?)
------------------------------------------------------
This email has been verified by no one.
4/14/03
Message no. 30
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:47:36 -0400
>Not the optical cables I'm talking about. Current optical cables are
>tappable, anyone who disagrees is just silly. These new optical
>"cables" carry each bit a a single photon that is in a superposition
>of quantum states. Both fortunately and unfortunately this makes the
>data stream incredibly fragile. Both reflection and refraction of
>such a stream will end up dropping all but one one of the quantum
>states (although it's impossible to predict to which one it will
>drop). So, the "cables" will always have to be perfectly straight,
>and IIRC, have a descent vaccuum inside.
>
>Now, one might think that you should simply be able to recieve and
>retransmit, but the key is that the reciever knows which of the
>quantum states to select based on a encryption key. Of course, if you
>have the key all is good, tapping of the "cable" would be rather
>textbook. If you don't have the key, you can't figure out what to
>retransmit, because you can only read one of the quantum states from
>each photon, and it may not be the correct one.
>
>Da Twink Daddy

Wow this gets really complex and expensive. In this case the runners would
have to arrange for some down time at the transmitter. Then they would have
to put a feed through tap in the line while maintaining the vacuum seal (not
impossible but difficult). With the feed through they could sample the
photon pulses to break the encryption. Inputting there own data into the
stream would require another tap which could not be in place until the
encryption is broken. This kind of system would be incredibly expensive. I
would expect to see it only in extremely restricted government installations
or really high level corp setups. Not something your average runner is
going to come across. The equipment to tap this kind of line would run
about $100,000.00 today let alone in 2060.

Coyote
Message no. 31
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:36:34 +0200
From: <York.GA@******.gc.ca>
> The equipment to tap this kind of line would run
> about $100,000.00 today let alone in 2060.

That would be ¥100,000.00 in 2060 according to the old $1=¥1.

Lars
Message no. 32
From: jzealey@***.edu.au (James Zealey)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:09:46 +1000
>
> Wow this gets really complex and expensive. In this case the runners would
> have to arrange for some down time at the transmitter. Then they would have
> to put a feed through tap in the line while maintaining the vacuum seal (not
> impossible but difficult). With the feed through they could sample the
> photon pulses to break the encryption. Inputting there own data into the
> stream would require another tap which could not be in place until the
> encryption is broken. This kind of system would be incredibly expensive. I
> would expect to see it only in extremely restricted government installations
> or really high level corp setups. Not something your average runner is
> going to come across. The equipment to tap this kind of line would run
> about $100,000.00 today let alone in 2060.
>
> Coyote
>
>
Vaccuum seals don't come into it.

Today the equipment to tap this kind of link is impossible. Not
expensive, not difficult, not complex. Impossible. Really, truly against
the laws of physics as we know them.

You can't tap the line. As soon as you interact with the data stream (ie
- observe it in any way), you change it. And you don't know what it
looked like before you interfered. The target does know what it looked
like before you interfered, because he gets told how it was generated.
Any time you look at the data, regardless what method you use, the
target will know.

In order to listen in on such a communication system, you'd need to
intercept the signal BEFORE it is coded, and if your targets have any
sense, AFTER it is decoded as well. That means you require physical
penetration of the site. That's as secure as a data connection gets.

Additionally, you don't need an optical fibre to do it. Such encrypted
streams have been done through the atmosphere to distances of 23km:

http://physicsweb.org/article/news/6/10/5/1

It IS possible that the laws of physics will be found to be incorrect,
at which point, it IS possible that this method of encryption will
become crackable. But that's a lot of 'possibles'.
Message no. 33
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:50:56 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Zealey" <jzealey@***.edu.au>

> Vaccuum seals don't come into it.
>
> Today the equipment to tap this kind of link is impossible. Not
> expensive, not difficult, not complex. Impossible. Really, truly
against
> the laws of physics as we know them.

> In order to listen in on such a communication system, you'd need to
> intercept the signal BEFORE it is coded, and if your targets have
any
> sense, AFTER it is decoded as well. That means you require physical
> penetration of the site. That's as secure as a data connection gets.

If you get it before it's coded, why exactly would you need it after
it's decoded? I mean shouldn't that just be two copies of the same
data?

> Additionally, you don't need an optical fibre to do it.
> http://physicsweb.org/article/news/6/10/5/1

Ah, sweet, I was afraid the atmosphere would cause problems so I
talked of a worse case where you needed a vaccuum to remove particles
in the way. ['Cause being absorbed and retransmitted through a
molecule would corrupt the stream as well.]

I was pretty sure they were already doing this type of transmission,
but I was pretty sure it wasn't commercially available (or if there's
even a demand for it). I'm not sure if it really costs that much, but
it is very sensitive equipment, the way I understand it.

[Who knows though, maybe this was lost in '29 as well. ;)]

Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ: Da Twink Daddy (514984)
YM: DaTwinkDaddy
AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
Message no. 34
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:49:13 -0400
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Zealey [mailto:jzealey@***.edu.au]
>Sent: Tuesday, 15, April, 2003 19:10 PM
>To: shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com
>Subject: RE: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
>Today the equipment to tap this kind of link is impossible. Not
>expensive, not difficult, not complex. Impossible. Really, truly against
>the laws of physics as we know them.
>
>You can't tap the line. As soon as you interact with the data stream (ie
>- observe it in any way), you change it. And you don't know what it
>looked like before you interfered. The target does know what it looked
>like before you interfered, because he gets told how it was generated.
>Any time you look at the data, regardless what method you use, the
>target will know.

Nothing is impossible. Just because some editor uses the word impossible
doesn't make it so. I would accept improbable but not impossible. Tapping
or sampling this type of system is not impossible, decrypting it may be at
the present time. I would probably estimate it will take them 5 to 10 years
to crack this unbreakable system. Remember, they said the Titanic was
unsinkable, the Bismarck was unstoppable etc. You can't use photons without
radiation. Radiation can be analyzed. With the technology available today
the codes could not be decrypted before they expire but to say they can't be
analyzed at all is just foolishness. A vacuum tube line would add another
measure of security to this system. The impurities in the atmosphere alone
will change the datastream. Birds and insects could fly through the stream
as well. If you think that these guys are gonna freak out every time they
have to retransmit you're mistaken. That would give them ulcers in a week.
Besides by 2060 this technology will be old. 60 years is a long time for
someone to find a way around it.

As to expense I still stand by my original statement. The more secure a
system is the more expensive it is. For a government system like this we
are talking millions or even billions of dollars. Not something your
average runner is going to come up against. A system like this in 2060
would also come with some heavy duty response...military grade. As a runner
if I came upon a system like this my response would be "I'm not getting paid
enough for this run!". This is not your standard fair equipment that a
runner would normally be carrying so for them this would be impossible. As
a GM you could just say "You haven't got what it takes" or "you're in too
deep". The rules in the book have an abstract way to deal with this stuff.
You roll your electronics or security systems or in this case maybe physics
against a target number set by the GM and abra cadabra you have done the
impossible.

Coyote
Message no. 35
From: aestus_preliator@*****.com (Michael Johnson)
Subject: Data Jack/Cyber Deck Question
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
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Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com> wrote:<snip>
But then, I've
> always seen SR in very William Gibson terms.
>
Yeah, let's go back to basics. Who's for a run on Winternight?
Where's GURPS Neuromancer?
--Anders



You can't forget Mr. Who, and the telepath (dreaming real, he called it), and of course,
the razorgirl! Wow, William Gibson was a visionary. His world, complete with New Yen, is
really what I think of when someone mentions Shadowrun (having Korishinzo as GM helps too
:) ).

Aestus Preliator


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