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Message no. 1
From: Christopher Bellovary <bellovar@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dead zones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 02:36:03 CDT
Yeah, I read about the dead zones... and was thoroughly disgusted.
Completely breaking all known laws of physics? I'm sorry - I simply do NOT
like that at ALL. Furthermore, in some cases, if a person`s cyberware
simply stopped functioning, they would DIE. Real simple there. Real fun.
Lets introduce an area where most of the party is at an extreme disadvantage.

Now I realize that some people like these dead zones, but myself,
I can truly say that I hate them with a passion. Of course, that is just
my opinion on the matter.

Chris Bellovary
-- CrossFire --


Anyone out there realize that the first idea for Shadowrun was a
cyberpunk game with no magic nor metahumans? Just when FASA's idea leaked,
other game companies beat them to the punch on the cyberpunk market, so
they revamped SR by adding magic and metahumans - which explains why the
magic system in SR1 seems so out of phase with the rest of the game.
Message no. 2
From: Christina Johnson <johnson1@**.UWP.EDU>
Subject: deadzones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 10:21:41 -0500
One major problem with dead zones:

Bioware? Does this affect bioware at all? Cuz if it does...

how does bioware in the brain affect people? Do they just die? Or what?
Wander around with a temp. Labotomy?

I don't think the deadzones should affect bioware... but my GM ruled that
they did. *shrug* Sucks to be me.


Christina M. Johnson, johnson1@**.uwp.edu
"On and on... Does anybody know what we are looking for?"
Message no. 3
From: Christopher Bellovary <bellovar@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: deadzones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 13:17:57 CDT
> One major problem with dead zones:
>
> Bioware? Does this affect bioware at all? Cuz if it does...

It can easily be argued that biotech is the highest tech around.
Furthermore, if you wanted to, you could also make points of it being the
MOST non-natural mods to be made due the fact it could be viewed as a
corruption of the natural body versus cyberware, which merely replaces
part of it.

> how does bioware in the brain affect people? Do they just die? Or what?
> Wander around with a temp. Labotomy?

I would imagine they would simply die. Boom. On the spot. The stuff merely
won't transmit impulses anymore. OK... edit that... cerebral boosters and
perhaps mnemonic enhancers affect the higher brain functions.... these people
would probably become either vegetables or morons.... and realize that when
the dendrites of your nerve and brain cells lose their charge, they die....
so the bioware would be distroyed in the process. Same for synaptic
accelerators (ever want to be paralyzed from the neck down?)

> Christina M. Johnson, johnson1@**.uwp.edu
> "On and on... Does anybody know what we are looking for?"
>
Message no. 4
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.EDU>
Subject: Dead Zones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:16:56 -0400
The Dead Zone idea has always bothered me. I belive it is sort of
silly and unjustified. How would such a thing occurr. Yes, I have read
the article in NAGEE. But it is not good enough. Magic has a hard time
affecting tech. But magic can disable tech. It doesn't follow.

Tech. is a human invention that is not dependent on nature. Magic is a
natural thing which man can use. The two seem to me to be very
dissimilar and almost the opposite of each other.

But because magic is natural, a magic Dead Zone could, I belive,
occur.

Just an opinion.

-- Quiktek
a.k.a. Todd Montgomery
tmont@****.wvu.edu
tmont@***.wvu.edu
un032507@*******.wvnet.edu
Message no. 5
From: Matt Vanek <aa2239@*******.LORAIN.OBERLIN.EDU>
Subject: Re: deadzones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 16:48:14 -0400
>
>One major problem with dead zones:
>
>Bioware? Does this affect bioware at all? Cuz if it does...
>
I would think that it wouldn't because bio. is all organic in nature.
I have always assumed that the zones affect only the cyber.

--
One come a day, the water will run, no man will stand | Lcfn:aa2239/Cfn:ab148
for things that he had done...Hurrah | Matt Vanek:
--Jane's Addiction | The Iron Claw; aka.
Huh? Nevermind. I donno, I just got here. | Zxqueb Bejru
Message no. 6
From: Matt Vanek <aa2239@*******.LORAIN.OBERLIN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dead Zones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 20:10:07 -0400
>Magic has a hard time
>affecting tech. But magic can disable tech. It doesn't follow.

>
>Tech. is a human invention that is not dependent on nature. Magic is a
>natural thing which man can use. The two seem to me to be very
>dissimilar and almost the opposite of each other.
>
>But because magic is natural, a magic Dead Zone could, I belive,
>occur.
>
Heres how i explain it. Magic is natural, right, so maybe mother
nature decides it's time to reclaim the earth. Who knows...maybe
this force has more than enuff power to wield magic to stop the
harmful, destructive tech....maybe, further, it has the ability to
selectivly kill teh cyber as well as leaved the stuff to keep the
person alive...i donno...i just ramble on and on and ...

--Iron Claw

--
One come a day, the water will run, no man will stand | Lcfn:aa2239/Cfn:ab148
for things that he had done...Hurrah | Matt Vanek:
--Jane's Addiction | The Iron Claw; aka.
Huh? Nevermind. I donno, I just got here. | Zxqueb Bejru
Message no. 7
From: Christopher Bellovary <bellovar@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dead Zones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 19:30:22 CDT
> Heres how i explain it. Magic is natural, right, so maybe mother
> nature decides it's time to reclaim the earth. Who knows...maybe
> this force has more than enuff power to wield magic to stop the
> harmful, destructive tech...


Yet it lets one use steam engines? One of the dirtiest combustion
engines around? And as for destructive tech.... do you realize how CLEAN
tech can be?

Have you ever looked into a breeder reactor? I could go on about
those, and nuclear reprocessing plants (which we shut down in the US to
keep weapons grade material away from terrorists even though with them we
could cut our nuclear waste down to 2-3% by volume of what it is today,
and that 2-3% waste is still useable by breeder reactors as fuel....)

See? I was just bare touching the tip of one of the most widely
accepted `dirty' technologies. Yet it really isn't. It isn't technology
that is dirty anymore, it is the people.

So lets look at what people can do in a dead zone. They can use
steam engines... dirty tech, build dams... everyone knows how much they
can mess up the ecosystem of an area... Need I go on? Dead Zones simply
aren't nature's way of cleaning up. If it was - it wouldn't be tech that
wouldn't work - it would have throw the people out.

=- CrossFire -
Message no. 8
From: "Dylan Norhtup (PHY)" <norhtup@*****.CAS.USF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dead zones
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 23:15:50 -0400
On Wed, 23 Jun 1993, Christopher Bellovary wrote:

> Yeah, I read about the dead zones... and was thoroughly disgusted.
> Completely breaking all known laws of physics? I'm sorry - I simply do NOT
> like that at ALL. Furthermore, in some cases, if a person`s cyberware
> simply stopped functioning, they would DIE. Real simple there. Real fun.
> Lets introduce an area where most of the party is at an extreme disadvantage.
>
> -- CrossFire --

I must agree with Crossfire and Scotty, to whit-'Ye kinna change the laws
of Physics'. These 'dead zones are IM-not-so-HO a very bad idea and I
think that they detract from an otherwise exemplary 'sourcebook' (NAGEE).
This is and the speculations on the 'barrier' are definitely things I do
not like.
If Silver Cianide is reading, please restrict your magazine articles to
extrapolations from given data (New weapons, spells, city layouts,
comments on existing products' info, and fiction). Plese do not include
things that radically change the game and which are not based on anthing
published or which can be reasonably extrapolated from real world examples
(New ammo, vehicles, surveillence equip., etc.)

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Dylan N.
-- Doc X --
Message no. 9
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN54@***.BITNET>
Subject: Dead Zones
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 06:21:20 -0600
Silver Cyanide, if you're reading this, go ahead, keep exploring the outer
bounds. Remember, folks, NAGEE is not canonical. It's a collection of =options
that we can use or not use as the whim takes us,. Personally, I don't use dead
zones in my current campaign, but I might at some future time. I =would= make
some mods to fit them more neatly into the picture of magic and the healing of\
the planet -- maybe have a dead zone appear in the midst of the Renraku Arcology
, and start growing, threatening Seattle, until some enterprising shaman figu
res
out that you have to tear down Renraku and build a park where it used to be...
Of course, Renraku's not going to like that idea... But yes, definitely continu
e
t o explore the possibilities of the Sixth World. If we restrict NAGEE to only
variations of the current materials, then we're going to run out of steam far
too soon, and a throoughly enjoyable game system will die for lack of new
blood. No restrictions on creativity here!
Message no. 10
From: Christopher Bellovary <bellovar@***.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dead Zones
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 06:53:33 CDT
> No restrictions on creativity here!

I most emphatically agree.

At the same point however, let us stay within the realms of
what is makes sense. I never said the basic concept didn't have merit,
expecially for certain campaigns. Just do it in a reasonable, rational
manner. As dead zones are currently presented - they contain some
serious flaws. That isn't to say a workable method can't be made.
(though it would have to be substantially different that the one in
NAGEE.) Even so, I wouldn't use it myself, but it could be done.

Chris Bellovary
-- CrossFire --
Message no. 11
From: Legion in Ascendance <legion@**************.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Deadzones
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 12:46:37 MDT
Just thought I'd throw some change on the subject:

Deadzones are a cool idea, but don't you guy's think that they're a
little DARK for the Shadowrun world? I'm sure they would fit in
perfectly in a world like Dark Conspiracy or something like that,
but they seem just a little dark for any world I'd run. I like the
human (meta/mundane) and paranormal obstacles just fine.

But that's just me...

Legion
Message no. 12
From: Tim Huie <SPEEDBMP@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Deadzones,
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1993 00:20:28 +0200
Doc,
I have just got off from work and I have had a chance to look thing over.

First;
Now in the broadest interpation of QM, looking at Shronerger and his half wh
at ever kitty. You have the many worlds theroy I.E. all is pssable but you only
see one aspect of it. The old if you belive it will happen theisis has shown u
p in a SF story or two.

Puting to the side the old "can it happen or not" agument for a moment. . .

Let us asume for a moment that though some agency,be it technology or magic
you can "shift" to another relaity. enven better you could provide a portal to
this reality level as it where. You could go to a diffrent place intirly.

Now further more let us say that in this other place we might find phsical l
aws a bit diffrent from our reality level. ( we will not worry about if we can
live here or not at the moment) You might find a place where all of your skills
and what not thrown out of kellter. the diffrences would not kill you outright
but mess with life for you.

the realms that we could go and visit would be limeted to how much abuse our
bodies could take from these changes.

Well you can see where I am going with this, I hope.

A thought as I look this over, thses spaces could be looked as "gaps" betwwn
our wave front perhaps.

Second;

On a more general note. Albedo 2ND ed should be out this month or latter next
month. If the wave forms settle in right.

Adding more fule to the fire.
Speedbump (Tim Huie)
Message no. 13
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Dead Zones
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 14:22:58 -0500
Well, there you have it. Here are the real-life notes:
I tried to keep them open-ended enough that both conservative and
liberal (game-wise, not politically) GMs could use them. I also made
it so that the laws of one do not apply to the others. I also wanted them
to be able to affect magic, too. Too bad that part came out as an
afterthought.

I'll probably catch flak on the flight-zone example. I tried to be as
consistent as I could without killing myself. We'll discuss physics
later, but remember, the Zones are meant to reflect whatever condition
the GM wants.

And remember, they are optional, just like everything else we're chucking
in the TOME. I don't care if they're plot devices or not, I just think
they're an interesting extrapolation of the Shadowrun universe.

J Roberson

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Dead Zones, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!