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Message no. 1
From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
Subject: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:10:56 +0800
How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise) after
this stage. I would be interested to know what some "house rules" are on
this matter.

Gav
Message no. 2
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:23:17 -0800
Gavin Lewis wrote:
>
> How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
> healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
> body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise) after
> this stage. I would be interested to know what some "house rules" are on
> this matter.
>
> Gav


I figure that body in OD is enough leway. (Sorry no house rule, well
acually I have no restriciton on overdamage, 12 unaswered success with a
LP will kill an average human, still pretty unlikely though.)
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:19:29 GMT
Gavin Lewis writes

> How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
> healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
> body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise) after
> this stage. I would be interested to know what some "house rules" are on
> this matter.
>
I follow the rule that exceeding body (natural) boxes past a Deadly
physical is terminal, uterly terminal. There are ways to get folks
back after that but not in SR (its possible in ED, but rare as
anything there, and the SR magic level probably could not cope).
2050's medicine might be good but if the targets been shredded by
automatic weapons fire too bad.

I also require PC's on Deadly wounds to go to hospital to cure. By
the book you can treat spell them off dead, but this give magicians
with esscence 6 a hideous advantage (sure they might loose some magic
but).

I have seen a few Pc's killed by over damage, most dead ones though
died of things like 'shot through head', 'throat slit' etc which just
plain kill no dice involved. (basically they died for being stupid,
though the ones past overflow shouldn't have been standing in the
open in a hail of lead!).


Mark
Message no. 4
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:35:24 -0500
Gavin Lewis wrote:

> How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
> healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
> body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise) after
> this stage. I would be interested to know what some "house rules" are on
> this matter.

I follow standard overflow rules from FoF. If the condition monitor is
exceeded in an amount of boxes greater than the body of the character in
question, they are officially dead. Nothing can help at that point. (I
am not familiar with cybermancy, so I am not sure if there is something
about that which would help or how to do it.)

> Gav

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 5
From: Hannes Lundholm <mt28185@******.SWIPNET.SE>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:50:54 +0100
> I follow the rule that exceeding body (natural) boxes past a Deadly
> physical is terminal, uterly terminal. There are ways to get folks
> back after that but not in SR (its possible in ED, but rare as
> anything there, and the SR magic level probably could not cope).
> 2050's medicine might be good but if the targets been shredded by
> automatic weapons fire too bad.

Well, actually, you can be "resurrected" in SR...
The rule "Hand Of God" in the Companion (wich I personally find very
pleasing) can get a dead character up and running again.
But thats just my two ören...

-----------------------------------------------------
Sent By That Guy Called Hannes
at mt28185@******.swipnet.se
-----------------------------------------------------
WARNING:
The Chance Of Forgetting What
To Write In This Letter Is Directly
Proportional To... To... Uhh....
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:58:11 -0700
Hannes Lundholm wrote:
|
| > I follow the rule that exceeding body (natural) boxes past a Deadly
| > physical is terminal, uterly terminal. There are ways to get folks
| > back after that but not in SR (its possible in ED, but rare as
| > anything there, and the SR magic level probably could not cope).
| > 2050's medicine might be good but if the targets been shredded by
| > automatic weapons fire too bad.
|
| Well, actually, you can be "resurrected" in SR...
| The rule "Hand Of God" in the Companion (wich I personally find very
| pleasing) can get a dead character up and running again.
| But thats just my two ören...

I did something fun to a character once. Someone was
trying to kill him for an offense he commited, but the
player never tried to find out who was trying to kill him,
even though the attempts kept escalating. I also have some
NPC dragons that play a part in my campaign. So, I decided
to kill the character (a *big* bomb in his appartment).
But, a dragon who planned on using the character for
nefarious reasons had at one point gathered ritual
materials from the character (bribed some hospital staff to
"lose" some blood samples). Then the dragon cast a ritual
on one of it's eggs. When the character died his "soul"
was transfered to his "new" body and he hatched :) into
the expectant arms of his "mother" (the character is *not*
a dragonling, the body waiting in the egg for him was a
clone of his old one). Needless to say the character is in
it deep, being linked to a dragon in such a fashion.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 7
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:29:35 -0500
Gavin Lewis wrote,
>How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
>healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
>body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise) after
>this stage. I would be interested to know what some "house rules" are on
>this matter.


You have to draw the line somewhere. You're either mostly dead or
totally dead as it were.





Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 8
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:00:27 -0700
> From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
> How do GM's out there handle the death rules? Do you let characters be
> healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
> body attribute or are characters NON healable.....

My house rule is..It's time to bring in that backup character you
have had waiting for just such an occasion...In my book they are
dead..and if I am one of the party survivors I will probably take his
bod to a chop shop...as well as skragging whatever loot from te bod
as well as his apt....
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 9
From: Hannes Lundholm <mt28185@******.SWIPNET.SE>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:12:43 +0100
That Mossy Stone Wrote:
> My house rule is..It's time to bring in that backup character you
> have had waiting for just such an occasion...In my book they are
> dead..and if I am one of the party survivors I will probably take his
> bod to a chop shop...as well as skragging whatever loot from te bod
> as well as his apt....

Gee...
You are a cruel person...
I'd never even considered that...
When one of my bud's goes under, I usually use his cut of the payment to
give him a decent funeral...
Oh, wait, I get it! Your cold as stone (har-har)
But, then again, we're buds in our group. Maybe youre only thinking of your
co-runners as "things".

-----------------------------------------------------
Sent By That Guy Called Hannes
at mt28185@******.swipnet.se
-----------------------------------------------------
WARNING:
The Chance Of Forgetting What
To Write In This Letter Is Directly
Proportional To... To... Uhh....
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:11:44 +0100
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:10:56 +0800, Gavin Lewis wrote:

>Do you let characters be
>healed if their condition monitor has exceeded a deadly wound PLUS their
>body attribute or are characters NON healable (magical or otherwise)
>after this stage.

I had (as GM) this problem only once.
The PC was dead.


-- Arno
Message no. 11
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:40:00 MST
That Mossy Stone Wrote:
>> My house rule is..It's time to bring in that backup character you
>> have had waiting for just such an occasion...In my book they are
>> dead..and if I am one of the party survivors I will probably take his
>> bod to a chop shop...as well as skragging whatever loot from te bod
>> as well as his apt....
>
>Gee...
>You are a cruel person...
>I'd never even considered that...
>When one of my bud's goes under, I usually use his cut of the payment to
>give him a decent funeral...
>Oh, wait, I get it! Your cold as stone (har-har)
>But, then again, we're buds in our group. Maybe youre only thinking of your
>co-runners as "things".

I would say the majority of shadowrunners would not consider their running
mates as friends, and would sell their bodies off if they could. The only
thing that really binds them together is a shadowrunning "code of honor".
They won't sell out their because reputation is all-important to a runner.
Some will become friends and have or just have a stronger sense of loyalty.
Maybe, if given a choice by the fixer or Johnson, runners of like mind will
gravitate towards each other through reputation and experience. But I would
say there is a fair turn-around in the business, people retiring, moving to
a different area, or ending up at the wrong end of a dragon (assuming there
is a right end).

There is a strong theme of survival in Shadowrun. And any first-year
psychology student knows most people think about survival first, and moral
and ethics second. It is difficult to be a Good person in Shadowrun,
compared to a fantasy or super-hero game, because the players are just
little fish in the big world. You are at the mercy of the shadow running
code. If you don't follow it, like by killing your Johnson who you find
out later was a high-ranking suit in Aztechnology, there is no escape.

So in general, a decent person does the best s/he can to be a good person,
but will probably have to make exceptions. Sure you can advertise your team
as a "no wetwork" team, but you will not always have the choice (take
Harlequinn for example). Usually, when you hear enough about the job to
know what the job is, it is difficult to turn back. A Corp just offers you
a touchy, potentially embarrassing job (to the corp) and the runners turn it
down. And just walk away? I would keep a careful look over your shoulder
chummer until you hear the job was completed by someone else. And
successfully completed. Otherwise, you're a loose end chummer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see the Shadowrun game. Not
so much about good and evil or right and wrong, but survival and playing the
suit's shadowrunning game that they created for you.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 12
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:34:50 -0700
> From: Hannes Lundholm <mt28185@******.SWIPNET.SE>
> Gee...
> You are a cruel person...
> I'd never even considered that...

It was the attitude of my entire group at the time...It was kind of
an understanding we all had...Actually, it is a giving heart that
prompted us..[evil grin]..Since we were all sinnless we could give
back to society by a full body donat..er..allowance...upon our
demise..
Finally characters started preparing wills...This ensured that the
next character introduced would not have to start out way behind all
the others...

> When one of my bud's goes under, I usually use his cut of the payment to
> give him a decent funeral...

With our method..precious real eastate isn't wasted on dead people...

> Oh, wait, I get it! Your cold as stone (har-har)

Well..That is what I tell all the prisoners..[RL]..

> But, then again, we're buds in our group. Maybe youre only thinking of your
> co-runners as "things".

Not things..profit potentials... ;)
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 13
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:57:59 -0700
> From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
...... or ending up at the wrong end of a dragon (assuming there
> is a right end).

Actually..You start out at one end and end up at the other... :)

...... If you don't follow it, like by killing your Johnson who you find
> out later was a high-ranking suit in Aztechnology, there is no escape.

We never picked nits about who our Johnson worked for..But..If
Johnson turned around and dumped on up..Then Mr J ends up with a
cement jacket....

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see the Shadowrun game. Not
> so much about good and evil or right and wrong, but survival and playing the
> suit's shadowrunning game that they created for you.

Your view is as good as any other...I personally like a little more
Chivalry mixed into the SRunner's code..But when it comes right down to
it..Chivalry was a myth that the nobels used to justify their
actions...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Death and healing!
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:14:22 +0100
Denzil Kruse said on 15:40/17 Jan 97...

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see the Shadowrun game. Not
> so much about good and evil or right and wrong, but survival and playing the
> suit's shadowrunning game that they created for you.

I think that's the way it started out, but I feel there's a tendency in
later sourcebooks to shift the game to good vs. evil rather than saying
"This is how it is, make of it what you will." For example, Ares IMO
definitely gets portrayed as a "good" corp, and Aztechnology as an
"evil"
one; the bugs are also shown to be "evil," and the "Enemy" (the
Horrors)
obviously is as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I wonder why anyone would want to name their kid after an airport...?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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